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Posted: 8/3/2004 9:03:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/4/2004 7:08:05 PM EST by tatjana]
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:04:56 PM EST
... Can't come up with any good reason to talk you out of it, you only go around once!
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:07:58 PM EST
You just had to make me feel like a total looser before bedtime ....didn't you?
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:08:36 PM EST
Let me know where to sent you the aeronautical charts for Western Washington so you can drop by for our annual big summer shoot at the LCR gravel pit. Pay your own damn landing fees.
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:10:03 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:11:16 PM EST
How experienced of a pilot are you? Twin prop aircraft are a lot more difficult to handle if you do not have a lot of training in them. I have a friend that taught flight instruction for about 25 years I will ask him. I'm going shooting with him Thursday so I will ask him.
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:11:18 PM EST
Well don't know if I could talk you out of it but I have a few questions for you; like what are the total times for the airframe and engine for the one your looking at, who overhauled the engines and what are the times on the engines, and has the plane been involved in any incidents? Seems like it has a good avionics package also I love the garmin GPS' I have used the 430 which is great and the 530 is even better.

For what its worth, I say this as a pilot (currently working on my Commercial Pilots license) and I am currently enrolled at MTSU studying for my Airframe and Powerplant license. Just a litle info BTW need a pilot LOL h.gif
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:13:29 PM EST
Tatjana, skip the plane and buy us a bunch of ammo to do our own tests

I think you ought to buy it actually. That kind of freedom is priceless.

If you don't mind me asking, where have you been? Otherwise, disregard.
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:14:16 PM EST
You asked to be talked out of it....



Sgtar15
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:17:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
You asked to be talked out of it....

www.rambocam.com/planecrash1.jpg

Sgtar15

What's all that red stuff?
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:18:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2004 9:18:37 PM EST by tatjana]
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:18:19 PM EST
1) Damnit I thought it said Tatjana action figures!

2) You don't want a plane with those spinny things on it (unless it's a warbird), you want one that goes woosh, and shoots fire from it's rear.

Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:18:51 PM EST
I'm with the sarge on this. Those fuckers always nosedive when you least expect it.
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:19:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:19:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
You asked to be talked out of it....

www.rambocam.com/planecrash1.jpg

Sgtar15

What's all that red stuff?




Statistics
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:20:43 PM EST
How much are they asking for it??
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:24:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By tatjana:
Ok, aviation buffs. Strike one for disposable income. Save me from a horrid money pit fate. Talk me out of buying...


www.btammolabs.com/images/aero.jpg
A 1981 Aerostar 602P/Machen Superstar 700
(similar to photo)


Hurry, before it's too late. Convince me this is a terrible idea.

Certified Known Icing

Avidyne EX 500 MFD w/Sweeping Color Radar Overlay (NEXRAD)
Garmin 530 Comm/Nav/GPS
Garmin 430 Comm/Nav/GPS
Garmin 340 Audio Panel/Intercom 6 Place
Garmin 330 Transponder Traffic Avoidance System
Garmin 327 Transponder
KFC200 FD/AP
RDR160 Radar (Color Display)
KCS 55A Slaved HSI
Terrain Color Display
Datalink Downloads (Nextrad/TFRs/AIRMETs/SIGMETs)
WX 500 Stormscope
Avionics Master
Ground Clearance Switch

CRUISING SPEEDS
Full power: 285 kts
75% power: 261 kts
65% power: 245 kts

ENGINE
Lycoming
IO-540-AA1A5(MM)*

Hartzell 3 blade Constant Speed Full Feathering props

Max. Ramp Weight 6356 lbs
Max. Takeoff Weight: 6315
Max. Landing Weight: 6000
Useful Load: 1700

RATE OF CLIMB*
Two Engine: 1875 fpm
Single Engine: 383 f[m
*At Sea Level and Gross Weight

STALL SPEEDS
Flaps Down Full 45°: 73 ktcs
Flaps Up: 81 ktcs

CRUISE RANGE*
75% power: 958 nm
65% power: 1000 nm

TAKEOFF DISTANCE*
Ground Run: 1950
Total Distance over 50 ft Obstacle: 3080
*Sea Level, Zero Wind, Standard Temperature, Gross Weight

SERVICE CEILING*
Two Engines (100 fpm): 30,000+
Single Engine (50 fpm): 16,000
*6000 lb, Standard Temperature

PRESSURIZATION
5.50 psi

LANDING DISTANCE*
Ground Roll: 1440 ft
Total Distance over 50 ft. Obstacle: 2140 ft



Talk you out of buying.... A PLANE?

That's like saying 'Talk me out of buying a Corvette' in a car thread...

(from a guy who still can't scrape together enough $$$ to get his license)...
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:29:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
You asked to be talked out of it....

www.rambocam.com/planecrash1.jpg

Sgtar15

What's all that red stuff?




Statistics



Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:39:58 PM EST
Tatja,

If you're buying a plane, you need to go all out. There was an F-4C Phantom on Ebay here a few days ago for sale. It came without engines of course, but I'm sure we can find some J-79's somewhere to stick in it! I'll even help you build it if you promise to let me take a few rides in the backseat.

All kidding aside, if you want it and can afford it, go for it! That is if it has a good record and is a safe aircraft type. I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to this type of aircraft, so I can't comment as to it's history. My aviation experience is limited to helicopters (mostly Bell 206 JetRanger and Robinson R-22/44).

BTW, I didn't realize you were a pilot. Congrats! To be so young you truly wear many hats....pilot, former soldier, resident ammo expert, etc. You are living life the way all of us should. So as much as I'd love to see you spend all those $$$ on something weapon or ammo related, I can't attempt to steer you away from this plane. But perhaps we can figure out a way of rigging some pylons on the wings and hanging some Ma Deuces or Mk 81 250 pounders on there just to keep the weapon theme going?

Let us know what happens.

-CH
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:54:38 PM EST
Yes, it is a bad idea. Get a Baron instead.
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:58:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 10:03:14 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 10:04:05 PM EST
Get a FW109 and some MG3's and a 30mm canon that way you too can be the master of the skys!

[hint]shoot down the good year blimp[/hint]
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 10:09:07 PM EST
500 hours TT and you're looking to buy one of the highest performing piston engine twins out there?

UMMM... as a former CFI I have some "funny feelings" about that.

Even if you do a specfic course for the Aerostar I have a feeling that your insurance rates on it would be astronomical given that little time.

It's a hell of an airplane to be sure but given that it would take some serious hours on a monthly basis to keep on top of it (or someone backing you up in the right seat).

Also you'd need to be VERY IFR current otherwise you'll waste 75% of what the aircraft can do. Talking about "real world" single pilot IFR in a high performace twin with only 500TT frankly scares the shit out of me.

Unless you really NEED that kind of speed and performace, I'd say set your sights a bit lower.
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 10:15:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
500 hours TT and you're looking to buy one of the highest performing piston engine twins out there?

UMMM... as a former CFI I have some "funny feelings" about that.

Even if you do a specfic course for the Aerostar I have a feeling that your insurance rates on it would be astronomical given that little time.

It's a hell of an airplane to be sure but given that it would take some serious hours on a monthly basis to keep on top of it (or someone backing you up in the right seat).

Also you'd need to be VERY IFR current otherwise you'll waste 75% of what the aircraft can do. Talking about "real world" single pilot IFR in a high performace twin with only 500TT frankly scares the shit out of me.

Unless you really NEED that kind of speed and performace, I'd say set your sights a bit lower.



I have to agree that does seem kindda very high performance for what you have right now and I am almost 100% positive the insurance will rape you but besides that the times seem really good to me and the engines sound almost new. Good luck with what you are going for but I say get a Baron 58 maybe i dunno lol But its your money and the plane sounds good. If you don't mind me asking are you trying to start a 135 operation with it or just for plaesure?
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 10:19:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 10:21:30 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 10:26:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2004 10:26:50 PM EST by repub18]
How much $$$$????
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 10:26:45 PM EST
WOW

There's lots of mysterious people on this site.
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 10:34:28 PM EST
Thats diff then lol didn't know that was multi time, crap man go for it also I didn't look to see where you wwere and now I see where you are from. So I seriously dooubt I could talk you out of that plane
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 2:33:49 AM EST
Give me the money. With it we can start our own blackwatter and get multi million dollar contracts doing security for who ever. We can recruit all the people from AR15.com for starters and have our own virtual army. Just think about it. Your own army or a plane. hhhmmmmmm
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 3:09:52 AM EST
If you are in an area with "lots of island hopping" and it's "Hot as hell" , plus not a lot of strips and it "takes forever" to get to places, you MIGHT consider going with something VERY reliable and also with some extra goodies just in case something happens in the middle of nowhere. I vote for a seaplane - that way if something goes wrong while island hopping you can land in the water.
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 3:11:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 3:30:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By MiG-21:
Yes, it is a bad idea. Get a Baron instead.
www.raytheonaircraft.com/images/government/flight_training/baron_58.gif



+1
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 3:49:31 AM EST
Ok, Tat, here is what I found out.

I spoke with my dad. He has thousands of hours in twin turbo-props. Flew for the FAA for many years, still works for them.

The Aerostar is a Ferrari. Faster than crap. But it is an accident waiting to happen. It has such powerful engines because the wings are narrow, and low lift. An engine failure in this plane can mean death. It is not a forgiving plane.

Many are available for cheap because people who buy them start reading about them and their history get scared (read: smart) and sell them off.

Just yesterday in austin a family of 5 and a professional pilot died after take off iin an aerostar.
www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/wfaa040803_wz_lakewayplane.3f63c391.html

In oklahoma City, there has been 3 or 4 aerostars crashes in the last few years.

He recommends a barron or a king-air. A little slower, but alot more forgiving aircraft.

Hope this helps. We Can't afford to lose the T in B+T ammo labs.

Hope all is well in Venezuela.

TXLEWIS
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 4:27:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 4:37:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/4/2004 4:37:46 AM EST by longshot_va]
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 4:44:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 4:45:37 AM EST
Hell, I won't let most of the doctors I work with touch me, let alone fly me around in a plane.
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 4:46:24 AM EST
Looks like fun ... get it.

Link Posted: 8/4/2004 4:47:46 AM EST
Aerostars are sexy, I'd have one if I could afford it. That said, it's got teeth and it will bite you if given the chance.
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 4:49:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
You asked to be talked out of it....

www.rambocam.com/planecrash1.jpg

Sgtar15



Collision with the ground is disqualifying.
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 5:00:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/4/2004 5:01:23 AM EST by AR_Rifle]
I rather go "Sailing".

The J/133 is Sailing World’s Overall Boat of the Year 2004






Edited to say: I leave the flying to the Pros.

Link Posted: 8/4/2004 5:07:55 AM EST
AR Rifle - is that YOURS? OMG! I am in love. Could I come over to your house some day and play with your toy? I'd love to get a ride on that sailboat.
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 5:12:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:
AR Rifle - is that YOURS? OMG! I am in love. Could I come over to your house some day and play with your toy? I'd love to get a ride on that sailboat.



I wish!....I try to talk Tatjana out of buying that plane.
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 5:15:31 AM EST
I work for a FBO that maintaines a 1980 (?) 601p.

The last 3 annuals have run in the $20k range. Most of the problems have been with the turbos, waste gates, heater and hydraulic system. Last inspection 3 out of the 4 turbos were changed and all 4 waste gates had to be sent out for o/h.
The plane gets about 80 hours between annuals.

The owner had flown it twice since he had owned it (about 18 years) the last time he flew it (late 80's, early 90's) he almost lost it on final and he hasn't flown it since. He does have a "co-owner" that pays for the maintenance and inspections and he is the one that flys it.

The few times I worked on it ( I do mostly Kingairs and Beechjets) I was not impressed with it. I guess wing skins and fuse skins shouldn't be riveted down with Cherrymax rivets only.

Yes they are fast as hell and if you have alot of disposable income for maintenance then go for it. Since you are wanting to be "talked out of it" something tells me that you already know that it probably isn't a good idea to buy it.
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 5:19:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
You asked to be talked out of it....

www.rambocam.com/planecrash1.jpg

Sgtar15





Outstanding work Sarge!
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 5:20:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 5:21:06 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 5:21:57 AM EST
Let me get this straight tatjana....

You're the experienced pilot and you're asking US for opinions about buying a plane? Even after reading some of the posts around here?

Oh, I think I get it. The only value that our opinions might be to you is perhaps as a reverse barometer of sorts. If we, in our infinite wisdom all think it's a great idea, then you should run from this deal as fast as you can! Gotta be it...





Link Posted: 8/4/2004 5:24:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:
I had a client years ago who was a retired insurance adjuster and had worked for an insurance company that underwrote airplanes. He said "Never get in a plane if the guy flying it is a doctor"




Or a Kennedy.
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