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Link Posted: 11/3/2013 5:42:08 AM EDT
[#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I came here to post something negative about Guns and Ammo and the crap Dick Metcalf wrote, but then I realized I have not yet had my 16 hours of First Amendment training, so I can't.
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Boom. Headshot, because I'm sure written words have never lead to people dying. What a stupid, holier than thou fuck stick. G&A can FOAD.
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 5:53:45 AM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 6:00:32 AM EDT
[#3]

This guy is the enemy of freedom no more or no less than John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham and the other RINOs.


I have heard the "yelling fire in a theater" statement and "constitutional rights should be regulated" more times than I can count.


It makes me sick each time I hear it.


Link Posted: 11/3/2013 6:02:45 AM EDT
[#4]
OCRed it:







THE SECOND AMENDMENT TO THE
CONSTITUTION OF THE United States reads, "A well regulated
Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of
the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Note carefully:
Those last four words say "shall not be infringed."
They do not say "shall not be regulated." "Well
regulated" is, in fact, the initial criterion of the amendment itself.








I bring this up because way too many gun
owners still seem to believe that any regulation of the right to keep and
bear arms is an infringement. The fact is, all constitutional rights
are regulated, always have been, and need to be. Freedom of speech is regulated.
You cannot falsely and deliberately shout, "Fire!" in a
crowded theater. Freedom of religion is regulated. A church cannot
practice human sacrifice. Freedom of assembly is regulated. People who
don't like you can't gather an "anti-you" demonstration on
your front lawn without your permission. And it is illegal for
convicted felons or the clinically insane to keep and bear arms.







But many argue that any regulation at all
is, by definition, an infringement. If that were true, then the
authors of the Second Amendment themselves should not have specified
"well regulated." The question is, when does regulation become
infringement?







From 1976 through 1990 I wrote the
"Firearms Law" column in our sister publication, "Shooting
Times." During those same years I worked with U.S. Senator Jim
McClure, Congressman Harold Volkmer and NRA-ILA Executive Director Neal
Knox to draft the 1986 Volkmer-McClure Firearm Owners Protection Act; testified
before Congress (and numerous state legislatures) on firearms law
issues; and taught college seminars on the history of constitutional
law.







I also received bags of mail every year,
much of it from readers who were upset that I advocated the passage
of additional state concealed carry laws. These readers typically argued
(I'm paraphrasing) that "The Second Amendment is all the
authority we need to carry anywhere we want to" or "The
government doesn't have the right to tell me whether I'm qualified to
carry a gun." I wondered whether those same people believed that
just anybody should be able to buy a vehicle and take it out on public
roadways without any kind of driver's training, test or license.







I understand that driving a car is not a
right protected by the Constitution, but to me the basic principle is
the same. I firmly believe that all U.S. citizens have a right to keep
and bear arms, but I do not believe that they have a right to use
them irresponsibly. And I do believe their fellow citizens, by the
specific language of the Second Amendment, have an equal right
to enact regulatory laws requiring them to undergo adequate training
and preparation for the responsibility of bearing arms.







I've seen too many examples of unsafe
behavior on too many shooting ranges to believe otherwise. And we've all
read too many accounts of legally armed individuals dealing with the
consequences of not being properly trained or prepared when
confronted with a bad situation.




This year, my Illinois homeland became the
50th state to enact a CCW statute. It's a "shall issue"
law, but it requires 16 hours of training to qualify for a license.
Many say that's excessive - an inherent infringement. I don't. But
I'd like it to be good training.




I write this on the day the Illinois Supreme
Court in People v. Aguilar voided the arrest of a man in his friend's yard
in Chicago because he was holding a pistol. The Court's ruling ended
by saying, "Of course, in concluding that the Second Amendment protects
the right to possess and use a firearm for selfdefense outside the
home, we are in no way saying that such a right is unlimited or is
not subject to meaningful regulation. That said, we cannot escape
the reality that, in this case, we were dealing not with a reasonable
regulation but with a comprehensive ban."




I don't think that requiring 16 hours of
training to qualify for a concealed carry license is infringement in
and of itself. But that's just me...






 
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 6:05:17 AM EDT
[#5]
Just canceled my Kindle sub for G&A and let they know it was Dick's fault.  F those who wish to trample on our G-d given rights.
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 6:08:57 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 7:31:58 AM EDT
[#7]
Done with G&A for now.
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 8:02:22 AM EDT
[#8]
Wow. That was worse than the hype! Can't believe they published that!

Screw Metcalf. What a dick.
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 8:13:21 AM EDT
[#9]
"Delivery has failed to these recipients or groups:

[email protected]
Your message can't be delivered because delivery to this address is restricted. "


Link Posted: 11/3/2013 8:14:23 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I find it hard to believe this hasn't gained more traction....
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Probably because Guns&Ammo and Dick have been irrelevant for some time now.
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 8:14:30 AM EDT
[#11]
Sounds like Mr. Metcalf is putting his mouth where his money is.

Link Posted: 11/3/2013 8:35:40 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History




That happened.
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 10:55:18 AM EDT
[#13]
What a piece of crap essay.

Paragraph 1:  Making the liberal argument that "well regulated" is synonymous with "well restricted".
Paragraph 2:  Nothing but straw-man arguments.
Paragraph 3:  More regulated = restricted.
Paragraph 4:  His opinion matters because he has written for gun-rags for a long time and helped with legislation that banned civilian ownership of machine guns made after 1986.
Paragraph 5:  More straw-man.
Paragraph 6:  He basically says his own argument is B.S., but that regulation/restriction somehow equates to citizen responsibility.  (The "profeshnull" federal agent who shot himself in the leg inside that classroom would be a big fan of this paragraph.)
Paragraph 7:  He's seen idiots at the range.  (Supposedly 16 hours of CCW training will prevent / stop this in Illinois?)
Paragraph 8:  Hmmm.  Maybe the training won't eliminate the range idiots?
Paragraph 9:  Courts like regulation.
Paragraphs 10 and 11:  His opinion is that 16 hours of training for a CCW is awesome!

Hopefully G&A is getting is walking papers together.
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 1:36:06 PM EDT
[#14]
Has there been any response from G&A or Metcalf at all?
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 1:40:23 PM EDT
[#15]
Tom Gresham mentioned it on GunTalk.
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 1:54:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yeah- in first grade!  Hadn't thought of it like that!
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Quoted:
It's an editorial piece on how he doesn't think we are regulated enough and that some sort of mandatory government firearms training is necessary in order for us to exercise our rights to k&ba.


Sure, require a firearms safety and shooting sports class in the mandatory education we all grew up with



Yeah- in first grade!  Hadn't thought of it like that!


Hey, I kinda like that idea. But with how much marksmanship training? I like the fact that most hoodrats have no idea how to shoot properly.
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 2:16:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Why isn't this thread pinned?
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 2:34:58 PM EDT
[#18]
The meaning of the phrase "well-regulated" in the 2nd amendment

From: Brian T. Halonen <[email protected]>

The following are taken from the Oxford English Dictionary, and bracket in time the writing of the 2nd amendment:

1709: "If a liberal Education has formed in us well-regulated Appetites and worthy Inclinations."

1714: "The practice of all well-regulated courts of justice in the world."

1812: "The equation of time ... is the adjustment of the difference of time as shown by a well-regulated clock and a true sun dial."

1848: "A remissness for which I am sure every well-regulated person will blame the Mayor."

1862: "It appeared to her well-regulated mind, like a clandestine proceeding."

1894: "The newspaper, a never wanting adjunct to every well-regulated American embryo city."

The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 2:50:01 PM EDT
[#19]
i will gladly drive down and pick up my monthly training allotment case of 5.56 at the postoffice
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 7:39:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Tom Gresham mentioned it on GunTalk.
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What did he have to say about it?
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 7:50:08 PM EDT
[#21]
emailed



Fuck be upon G&A and Dick Metcalf.
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 7:52:44 PM EDT
[#22]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What did he have to say about it?

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Quoted:



Quoted:

Tom Gresham mentioned it on GunTalk.




What did he have to say about it?

He said he knew Metcalf for years and couldn't believe he said what he did. He also seemed to leave the door open for redemption, a la Zumbo. He said we're too quick to throw our own under the bus.



 
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 9:27:50 PM EDT
[#23]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



He said he knew Metcalf for years and couldn't believe he said what he did. He also seemed to leave the door open for redemption, a la Zumbo. He said we're too quick to throw our own under the bus.

 
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

Tom Gresham mentioned it on GunTalk.




What did he have to say about it?

He said he knew Metcalf for years and couldn't believe he said what he did. He also seemed to leave the door open for redemption, a la Zumbo. He said we're too quick to throw our own under the bus.

 
Gresham also tore apart Metcalf's essay and explained why Metcalf was wrong on all counts.  Tom said that, at first, he wondered if it was a prank or hoax because it made no sense for Metcalf to write it.  After verification that the piece was legit, Gresham continued to cut it apart.  



He said that he had tried to contact Metcalf to have him come on the show but didn't get a response.  He said he'll try to get Metcalf to call in on next week's program.



Gresham said that Metcalf never should have written the piece in the first place. Barring that, an editor should have pulled it before it appeared.  He also said that G&A editors basically don't do jack about reading articles so that it didn't surprise him that nobody oversaw the article before publication.  He went on to say that G&A has dropped off in circulation during the past decade and that this article might kill it off for good.  
 
Link Posted: 11/3/2013 9:51:33 PM EDT
[#24]
I dumped my sub for G&A a while back, might be time to re up





Just so I can cancel


Link Posted: 11/4/2013 3:20:08 AM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Why isn't this thread pinned?
View Quote


It would violate the COC if it were.

Can't have a bunch of printer repair types sending emails, letters and making calls to people who are a threat to our right(s) through the site.
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 3:27:02 AM EDT
[#26]
He needs fired
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 3:32:34 AM EDT
[#27]
Why is he saying the "well regulated militia" part of the 2A somehow morphs into an argument that CPL holders must obtain firearms training?

I mean, just because I have a CPL DOES NOT mean I am part of a well regulated militia.........Jesus Christ!!??

If he thinks CPL holders should undergo firearms training for a couple of days so they are more safe with their guns outside, then JUST FUCKING SAY IT.

I am really beginning to get sick and tired of people throwing curveballs and not just DIRECTLY FUCKING SAYING WHAT THEY THINK.
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 3:39:50 AM EDT
[#28]
I have been a life long reader and subscriber to G&A. I will cancel today and be done with it. I hope I get a chance to tell someone the reason was Dick Metcaffs article. Fuck him.
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 3:44:51 AM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Ya, I cancelled my subscription once it became clear that the articles were pretty much just advertisements trumping up whatever new gun their ad sponsors had just come out with.

Not a good place for honest information.
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a smart and observant 13er.

who the fuck reads gun magazines

why would read the complete bullshit of a review thats being paid for by the arms maker when I can watch a review by MAC, Neverenoughammo, bigshootist, hickock45 etc?

none of the rag writers can be trusted. not one.
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 3:55:12 AM EDT
[#30]
I don't even know who dick metcalf is


Gr
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 4:03:40 AM EDT
[#31]
Fuck him.



Die of ass cancer metcalf.
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 4:07:09 AM EDT
[#32]
Here's what I posted.



Dick
Metcalf needs a remedial course in the Constitution and the meaning of
"well regulated" in the context of the times in which it was written.




How could anyone be so blind to the assault on individual freedoms,
especially the Second Amendment, by this Administration, cultural
leaders and the media, yet hold a senior position within the firearms
community and at a gun publication no less?



The
management at Guns&Ammo need to ponder on whether Mr. Metcalf is
the right man for the job he holds at what should be a leading voice for
Second Amendment rights.  



Mr. Metcalf has frittered away the
opportunity to express reasoned and rational arguments for the necessity
of exercising liberty and freedom and instead bleated the same drivel
expressed by anti-gun voices throughout our society.



Why should Guns&Ammo waste precious space on the likes of him?

Link Posted: 11/4/2013 4:11:30 AM EDT
[#33]
These are the kind of people that want guns all for themselves. The resent the new shooters and gun owners. They like the good ole boys club that only include them. So, they make up these stupid ideas to restrict new shooters.

I know many shooters like this. They don't like new shooters. They don't like modern guns. etc.
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 4:18:03 AM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
These are the kind of people that want guns all for themselves. The resent the new shooters and gun owners. They like the good ole boys club that only include them. So, they make up these stupid ideas to restrict new shooters.

I know many shooters like this. They don't like new shooters. They don't like modern guns. etc.
View Quote



Yep. Their way or the highway. Lots of hunters like that too.

"My grandpa taught me and if yours didn't you're wrong"

Gr
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 4:19:22 AM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
These are the kind of people that want guns all for themselves. The resent the new shooters and gun owners. They like the good ole boys club that only include them. So, they make up these stupid ideas to restrict new shooters.

I know many shooters like this. They don't like new shooters. They don't like modern guns. etc.
View Quote


They are..........fudds.
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 4:20:35 AM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


They are..........fudds.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
These are the kind of people that want guns all for themselves. The resent the new shooters and gun owners. They like the good ole boys club that only include them. So, they make up these stupid ideas to restrict new shooters.

I know many shooters like this. They don't like new shooters. They don't like modern guns. etc.


They are..........fudds.


My head is still SPINNING on him equating a well regulated militia to an individual CPL holder, being proof, that a person requires firearms training!!??
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 4:20:53 AM EDT
[#37]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


His whole argument rests on the fallacious assumption that "well regulated" applies to citizens and their right to own firearms.  I can't really link to a magazine article- I'm sure someone will..  He is basically pushing for a 16 hour mandatory training for concealed carry, and is unable to see how this gem of legislation could and would be misused.

View Quote


  16 one hour classes held on the 5th Friday of months occurring during leap years under left-handed Republican presidential administrations.



DXR



 
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 4:25:04 AM EDT
[#38]
Once again........... Why Cant This Thread Be Kept At Top Of List?
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 4:39:16 AM EDT
[#39]
I was a subscriber for over 30 years.  Other than the print getting smaller and the writers tending to be leftovers with no up and comers, this finished it off for me.  


Link Posted: 11/4/2013 4:45:55 AM EDT
[#40]
G&A didn't understand that it signed its own death warrant when they printed that? Were they out playing golf when the final edits came across the table?

FDM
FG&A
FBHO
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 4:49:32 AM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


My head is still SPINNING on him equating a well regulated militia to an individual CPL holder, being proof, that a person requires firearms training!!??
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
These are the kind of people that want guns all for themselves. The resent the new shooters and gun owners. They like the good ole boys club that only include them. So, they make up these stupid ideas to restrict new shooters.

I know many shooters like this. They don't like new shooters. They don't like modern guns. etc.


They are..........fudds.


My head is still SPINNING on him equating a well regulated militia to an individual CPL holder, being proof, that a person requires firearms training!!??


He used a modern meaning to a word used 200 years ago with a different definition. Something every liberal agruinag against the 2nd A has done.

Good job, dumbass!
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 4:53:39 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

.............

He used a modern meaning to a word used 200 years ago with a different definition. Something every liberal agruinag against the 2nd A has done.

Good job, dumbass!
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Yup.

What surprised me is a long time gun writer, who supposedly is pro gun, would do that.

I mean a well regulated militia IS  a well regulated militia for god's sake.
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 4:59:57 AM EDT
[#43]
BTT
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 5:00:53 AM EDT
[#44]
Has there been any retrenchment, retraction etc....?...... I wouldn't hold my breath.
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 5:13:47 AM EDT
[#45]
I hope G&A goes under. They haven't been intereting since Cooper died.
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 5:21:34 AM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


It would violate the COC if it were.

Can't have a bunch of printer repair types sending emails, letters and making calls to people who are a threat to our right(s) through the site.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Why isn't this thread pinned?


It would violate the COC if it were.

Can't have a bunch of printer repair types sending emails, letters and making calls to people who are a threat to our right(s) through the site.



That's fine. It's a mission of mine to keep it on the first page. I'm sure there are others that feel the same.
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 5:22:28 AM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yup.

What surprised me is a long time gun writer, who supposedly is pro gun, would do that.


I mean a well regulated militia IS  a well regulated militia for god's sake.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

.............

He used a modern meaning to a word used 200 years ago with a different definition. Something every liberal agruinag against the 2nd A has done.

Good job, dumbass!


Yup.

What surprised me is a long time gun writer, who supposedly is pro gun, would do that.


I mean a well regulated militia IS  a well regulated militia for god's sake.



Those worst part is that he tries to establish his authority on the matter by citing his time lecturing on gun rights and the Constitution yet uses the same flawed Liberal logic twisting and destroying the meaning of the words to justify his inane argument. This man is no friend of gun owners and should be cast out with extreme prejudice from the firearm community.
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 5:44:48 AM EDT
[#48]
What a dumbass...  

Why hasn't he been getting the Zumbo treatment?  Jeez, this is worse than that.

Well-regulated my ass.  What a clown.
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 6:06:21 AM EDT
[#49]
I was gonna give them/him a chance to rectify, but fuck it, I called and cancelled.
Link Posted: 11/4/2013 6:09:52 AM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
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He is. The Metcalfs are good people. I think what he said is taken out of context. They are the loudest gun right supporters here is West/Central Illinois and do a lot of good. My family and I are members of PASA park which they own and maintain. It's a great place to shoot. Yes the 16 hours training is BS, hopefully that will change in the future.



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He is. The Metcalfs are good people. I think what he said is taken out of context. They are the loudest gun right supporters here is West/Central Illinois and do a lot of good. My family and I are members of PASA park which they own and maintain. It's a great place to shoot. Yes the 16 hours training is BS, hopefully that will change in the future.


Quoted:
Quoted:
His whole argument rests on the fallacious assumption that "well regulated" applies to citizens and their right to own firearms.  I can't really link to a magazine article- I'm sure someone will..  He is basically pushing for a 16 hour mandatory training for concealed carry, and is unable to see how this gem of legislation could and would be misused.


I think he getting the 16 hr. training for CCW remark from the libtard state that he is from, IL.  They are requiring 16 hrs. of training/instruction for non Mil./LEO or prior service.



Bullshit
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