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Posted: 11/3/2013 5:42:08 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I came here to post something negative about Guns and Ammo and the crap Dick Metcalf wrote, but then I realized I have not yet had my 16 hours of First Amendment training, so I can't. Boom. Headshot, because I'm sure written words have never lead to people dying. What a stupid, holier than thou fuck stick. G&A can FOAD. |
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Posted: 11/3/2013 5:53:45 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 11/3/2013 6:00:32 AM EDT
[#3]
This guy is the enemy of freedom no more or no less than John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham and the other RINOs. I have heard the "yelling fire in a theater" statement and "constitutional rights should be regulated" more times than I can count. It makes me sick each time I hear it. |
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Posted: 11/3/2013 6:02:45 AM EDT
[#4]
OCRed it:
THE SECOND AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THE United States reads, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Note carefully: Those last four words say "shall not be infringed." They do not say "shall not be regulated." "Well regulated" is, in fact, the initial criterion of the amendment itself. I bring this up because way too many gun owners still seem to believe that any regulation of the right to keep and bear arms is an infringement. The fact is, all constitutional rights are regulated, always have been, and need to be. Freedom of speech is regulated. You cannot falsely and deliberately shout, "Fire!" in a crowded theater. Freedom of religion is regulated. A church cannot practice human sacrifice. Freedom of assembly is regulated. People who don't like you can't gather an "anti-you" demonstration on your front lawn without your permission. And it is illegal for convicted felons or the clinically insane to keep and bear arms. But many argue that any regulation at all is, by definition, an infringement. If that were true, then the authors of the Second Amendment themselves should not have specified "well regulated." The question is, when does regulation become infringement? From 1976 through 1990 I wrote the "Firearms Law" column in our sister publication, "Shooting Times." During those same years I worked with U.S. Senator Jim McClure, Congressman Harold Volkmer and NRA-ILA Executive Director Neal Knox to draft the 1986 Volkmer-McClure Firearm Owners Protection Act; testified before Congress (and numerous state legislatures) on firearms law issues; and taught college seminars on the history of constitutional law. I also received bags of mail every year, much of it from readers who were upset that I advocated the passage of additional state concealed carry laws. These readers typically argued (I'm paraphrasing) that "The Second Amendment is all the authority we need to carry anywhere we want to" or "The government doesn't have the right to tell me whether I'm qualified to carry a gun." I wondered whether those same people believed that just anybody should be able to buy a vehicle and take it out on public roadways without any kind of driver's training, test or license. I understand that driving a car is not a right protected by the Constitution, but to me the basic principle is the same. I firmly believe that all U.S. citizens have a right to keep and bear arms, but I do not believe that they have a right to use them irresponsibly. And I do believe their fellow citizens, by the specific language of the Second Amendment, have an equal right to enact regulatory laws requiring them to undergo adequate training and preparation for the responsibility of bearing arms. I've seen too many examples of unsafe behavior on too many shooting ranges to believe otherwise. And we've all read too many accounts of legally armed individuals dealing with the consequences of not being properly trained or prepared when confronted with a bad situation. This year, my Illinois homeland became the 50th state to enact a CCW statute. It's a "shall issue" law, but it requires 16 hours of training to qualify for a license. Many say that's excessive - an inherent infringement. I don't. But I'd like it to be good training. I write this on the day the Illinois Supreme Court in People v. Aguilar voided the arrest of a man in his friend's yard in Chicago because he was holding a pistol. The Court's ruling ended by saying, "Of course, in concluding that the Second Amendment protects the right to possess and use a firearm for selfdefense outside the home, we are in no way saying that such a right is unlimited or is not subject to meaningful regulation. That said, we cannot escape the reality that, in this case, we were dealing not with a reasonable regulation but with a comprehensive ban." I don't think that requiring 16 hours of training to qualify for a concealed carry license is infringement in and of itself. But that's just me... |
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Posted: 11/3/2013 6:05:17 AM EDT
[#5]
Just canceled my Kindle sub for G&A and let they know it was Dick's fault. F those who wish to trample on our G-d given rights.
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Posted: 11/3/2013 6:08:57 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 11/3/2013 7:31:58 AM EDT
[#7]
Done with G&A for now.
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Posted: 11/3/2013 8:02:22 AM EDT
[#8]
Wow. That was worse than the hype! Can't believe they published that!
Screw Metcalf. What a dick. |
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Posted: 11/3/2013 8:13:21 AM EDT
[#9]
"Delivery has failed to these recipients or groups:
[email protected] Your message can't be delivered because delivery to this address is restricted. " 
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Posted: 11/3/2013 8:14:23 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I find it hard to believe this hasn't gained more traction.... Probably because Guns&Ammo and Dick have been irrelevant for some time now. |
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Posted: 11/3/2013 8:14:30 AM EDT
[#11]
Sounds like Mr. Metcalf is putting his mouth where his money is.
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Posted: 11/3/2013 8:35:40 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote History
That happened. 
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Posted: 11/3/2013 10:55:18 AM EDT
[#13]
What a piece of crap essay.
Paragraph 1: Making the liberal argument that "well regulated" is synonymous with "well restricted". Paragraph 2: Nothing but straw-man arguments. Paragraph 3: More regulated = restricted. Paragraph 4: His opinion matters because he has written for gun-rags for a long time and helped with legislation that banned civilian ownership of machine guns made after 1986. Paragraph 5: More straw-man. Paragraph 6: He basically says his own argument is B.S., but that regulation/restriction somehow equates to citizen responsibility. (The "profeshnull" federal agent who shot himself in the leg inside that classroom would be a big fan of this paragraph.) Paragraph 7: He's seen idiots at the range. (Supposedly 16 hours of CCW training will prevent / stop this in Illinois?) Paragraph 8: Hmmm. Maybe the training won't eliminate the range idiots? Paragraph 9: Courts like regulation. Paragraphs 10 and 11: His opinion is that 16 hours of training for a CCW is awesome! Hopefully G&A is getting is walking papers together. |
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Posted: 11/3/2013 1:36:06 PM EDT
[#14]
Has there been any response from G&A or Metcalf at all?
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Posted: 11/3/2013 1:40:23 PM EDT
[#15]
Tom Gresham mentioned it on GunTalk.
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Posted: 11/3/2013 1:54:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah- in first grade! Hadn't thought of it like that! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's an editorial piece on how he doesn't think we are regulated enough and that some sort of mandatory government firearms training is necessary in order for us to exercise our rights to k&ba. Sure, require a firearms safety and shooting sports class in the mandatory education we all grew up with  Yeah- in first grade! Hadn't thought of it like that! Hey, I kinda like that idea. But with how much marksmanship training? I like the fact that most hoodrats have no idea how to shoot properly. |
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Posted: 11/3/2013 2:16:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Why isn't this thread pinned?
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Posted: 11/3/2013 2:34:58 PM EDT
[#18]
The meaning of the phrase "well-regulated" in the 2nd amendment
From: Brian T. Halonen <[email protected]> The following are taken from the Oxford English Dictionary, and bracket in time the writing of the 2nd amendment: 1709: "If a liberal Education has formed in us well-regulated Appetites and worthy Inclinations." 1714: "The practice of all well-regulated courts of justice in the world." 1812: "The equation of time ... is the adjustment of the difference of time as shown by a well-regulated clock and a true sun dial." 1848: "A remissness for which I am sure every well-regulated person will blame the Mayor." 1862: "It appeared to her well-regulated mind, like a clandestine proceeding." 1894: "The newspaper, a never wanting adjunct to every well-regulated American embryo city." The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it. |
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Posted: 11/3/2013 2:50:01 PM EDT
[#19]
i will gladly drive down and pick up my monthly training allotment case of 5.56 at the postoffice
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Posted: 11/3/2013 7:39:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tom Gresham mentioned it on GunTalk. What did he have to say about it? |
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Posted: 11/3/2013 7:50:08 PM EDT
[#21]
emailed
Fuck be upon G&A and Dick Metcalf.
 |
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Posted: 11/3/2013 7:52:44 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What did he have to say about it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Tom Gresham mentioned it on GunTalk. What did he have to say about it? |
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Posted: 11/3/2013 9:27:50 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He said he knew Metcalf for years and couldn't believe he said what he did. He also seemed to leave the door open for redemption, a la Zumbo. He said we're too quick to throw our own under the bus. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Tom Gresham mentioned it on GunTalk. What did he have to say about it? He said that he had tried to contact Metcalf to have him come on the show but didn't get a response. He said he'll try to get Metcalf to call in on next week's program. Gresham said that Metcalf never should have written the piece in the first place. Barring that, an editor should have pulled it before it appeared. He also said that G&A editors basically don't do jack about reading articles so that it didn't surprise him that nobody oversaw the article before publication. He went on to say that G&A has dropped off in circulation during the past decade and that this article might kill it off for good. |
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Posted: 11/3/2013 9:51:33 PM EDT
[#24]
I dumped my sub for G&A a while back, might be time to re up
Just so I can cancel  |
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Posted: 11/4/2013 3:20:08 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why isn't this thread pinned? It would violate the COC if it were. Can't have a bunch of printer repair types sending emails, letters and making calls to people who are a threat to our right(s) through the site. |
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Posted: 11/4/2013 3:27:02 AM EDT
[#26]
He needs fired
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Posted: 11/4/2013 3:32:34 AM EDT
[#27]
Why is he saying the "well regulated militia" part of the 2A somehow morphs into an argument that CPL holders must obtain firearms training?
I mean, just because I have a CPL DOES NOT mean I am part of a well regulated militia.........Jesus Christ!!??
If he thinks CPL holders should undergo firearms training for a couple of days so they are more safe with their guns outside, then JUST FUCKING SAY IT. I am really beginning to get sick and tired of people throwing curveballs and not just DIRECTLY FUCKING SAYING WHAT THEY THINK. |
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Posted: 11/4/2013 3:39:50 AM EDT
[#28]
I have been a life long reader and subscriber to G&A. I will cancel today and be done with it. I hope I get a chance to tell someone the reason was Dick Metcaffs article. Fuck him.
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Posted: 11/4/2013 3:44:51 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ya, I cancelled my subscription once it became clear that the articles were pretty much just advertisements trumping up whatever new gun their ad sponsors had just come out with. Not a good place for honest information. a smart and observant 13er. who the fuck reads gun magazines why would read the complete bullshit of a review thats being paid for by the arms maker when I can watch a review by MAC, Neverenoughammo, bigshootist, hickock45 etc? none of the rag writers can be trusted. not one. |
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Posted: 11/4/2013 3:55:12 AM EDT
[#30]
I don't even know who dick metcalf is
Gr |
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Posted: 11/4/2013 4:03:40 AM EDT
[#31]
Fuck him.
Die of ass cancer metcalf.
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Posted: 11/4/2013 4:07:09 AM EDT
[#32]
Here's what I posted.
Dick Metcalf needs a remedial course in the Constitution and the meaning of "well regulated" in the context of the times in which it was written. How could anyone be so blind to the assault on individual freedoms, especially the Second Amendment, by this Administration, cultural leaders and the media, yet hold a senior position within the firearms community and at a gun publication no less? The management at Guns&Ammo need to ponder on whether Mr. Metcalf is the right man for the job he holds at what should be a leading voice for Second Amendment rights. Mr. Metcalf has frittered away the opportunity to express reasoned and rational arguments for the necessity of exercising liberty and freedom and instead bleated the same drivel expressed by anti-gun voices throughout our society. Why should Guns&Ammo waste precious space on the likes of him? |
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Posted: 11/4/2013 4:11:30 AM EDT
[#33]
These are the kind of people that want guns all for themselves. The resent the new shooters and gun owners. They like the good ole boys club that only include them. So, they make up these stupid ideas to restrict new shooters.
I know many shooters like this. They don't like new shooters. They don't like modern guns. etc. |
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Posted: 11/4/2013 4:18:03 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These are the kind of people that want guns all for themselves. The resent the new shooters and gun owners. They like the good ole boys club that only include them. So, they make up these stupid ideas to restrict new shooters. I know many shooters like this. They don't like new shooters. They don't like modern guns. etc. Yep. Their way or the highway. Lots of hunters like that too. "My grandpa taught me and if yours didn't you're wrong" Gr |
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Posted: 11/4/2013 4:19:22 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These are the kind of people that want guns all for themselves. The resent the new shooters and gun owners. They like the good ole boys club that only include them. So, they make up these stupid ideas to restrict new shooters. I know many shooters like this. They don't like new shooters. They don't like modern guns. etc. They are..........fudds. |
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Posted: 11/4/2013 4:20:35 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are..........fudds. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
These are the kind of people that want guns all for themselves. The resent the new shooters and gun owners. They like the good ole boys club that only include them. So, they make up these stupid ideas to restrict new shooters. I know many shooters like this. They don't like new shooters. They don't like modern guns. etc. They are..........fudds. My head is still SPINNING on him equating a well regulated militia to an individual CPL holder, being proof, that a person requires firearms training!!??
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Posted: 11/4/2013 4:20:53 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: His whole argument rests on the fallacious assumption that "well regulated" applies to citizens and their right to own firearms. I can't really link to a magazine article- I'm sure someone will.. He is basically pushing for a 16 hour mandatory training for concealed carry, and is unable to see how this gem of legislation could and would be misused. 16 one hour classes held on the 5th Friday of months occurring during leap years under left-handed Republican presidential administrations. DXR |
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Posted: 11/4/2013 4:25:04 AM EDT
[#38]
Once again........... Why Cant This Thread Be Kept At Top Of List?
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Posted: 11/4/2013 4:39:16 AM EDT
[#39]
I was a subscriber for over 30 years. Other than the print getting smaller and the writers tending to be leftovers with no up and comers, this finished it off for me.
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Posted: 11/4/2013 4:45:55 AM EDT
[#40]
G&A didn't understand that it signed its own death warrant when they printed that? Were they out playing golf when the final edits came across the table?
FDM FG&A FBHO |
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Posted: 11/4/2013 4:49:32 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My head is still SPINNING on him equating a well regulated militia to an individual CPL holder, being proof, that a person requires firearms training!!?? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
These are the kind of people that want guns all for themselves. The resent the new shooters and gun owners. They like the good ole boys club that only include them. So, they make up these stupid ideas to restrict new shooters. I know many shooters like this. They don't like new shooters. They don't like modern guns. etc. They are..........fudds. My head is still SPINNING on him equating a well regulated militia to an individual CPL holder, being proof, that a person requires firearms training!!?? He used a modern meaning to a word used 200 years ago with a different definition. Something every liberal agruinag against the 2nd A has done. Good job, dumbass! |
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Posted: 11/4/2013 4:53:39 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
............. He used a modern meaning to a word used 200 years ago with a different definition. Something every liberal agruinag against the 2nd A has done. Good job, dumbass! Yup. What surprised me is a long time gun writer, who supposedly is pro gun, would do that. 
I mean a well regulated militia IS a well regulated militia for god's sake. |
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Posted: 11/4/2013 4:59:57 AM EDT
[#43]
BTT
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Posted: 11/4/2013 5:00:53 AM EDT
[#44]
Has there been any retrenchment, retraction etc....?...... I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Posted: 11/4/2013 5:13:47 AM EDT
[#45]
I hope G&A goes under. They haven't been intereting since Cooper died.
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Posted: 11/4/2013 5:21:34 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would violate the COC if it were. Can't have a bunch of printer repair types sending emails, letters and making calls to people who are a threat to our right(s) through the site. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why isn't this thread pinned? It would violate the COC if it were. Can't have a bunch of printer repair types sending emails, letters and making calls to people who are a threat to our right(s) through the site. That's fine. It's a mission of mine to keep it on the first page. I'm sure there are others that feel the same. |
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Posted: 11/4/2013 5:22:28 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup. What surprised me is a long time gun writer, who supposedly is pro gun, would do that.
I mean a well regulated militia IS a well regulated militia for god's sake. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
............. He used a modern meaning to a word used 200 years ago with a different definition. Something every liberal agruinag against the 2nd A has done. Good job, dumbass! Yup. What surprised me is a long time gun writer, who supposedly is pro gun, would do that.
I mean a well regulated militia IS a well regulated militia for god's sake. Those worst part is that he tries to establish his authority on the matter by citing his time lecturing on gun rights and the Constitution yet uses the same flawed Liberal logic twisting and destroying the meaning of the words to justify his inane argument. This man is no friend of gun owners and should be cast out with extreme prejudice from the firearm community. |
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Posted: 11/4/2013 5:44:48 AM EDT
[#48]
What a dumbass...
Why hasn't he been getting the Zumbo treatment? Jeez, this is worse than that. Well-regulated my ass. What a clown. |
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Posted: 11/4/2013 6:06:21 AM EDT
[#49]
I was gonna give them/him a chance to rectify, but fuck it, I called and cancelled.
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Posted: 11/4/2013 6:09:52 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He is. The Metcalfs are good people. I think what he said is taken out of context. They are the loudest gun right supporters here is West/Central Illinois and do a lot of good. My family and I are members of PASA park which they own and maintain. It's a great place to shoot. Yes the 16 hours training is BS, hopefully that will change in the future. Quote HistoryQuoted:
He is. The Metcalfs are good people. I think what he said is taken out of context. They are the loudest gun right supporters here is West/Central Illinois and do a lot of good. My family and I are members of PASA park which they own and maintain. It's a great place to shoot. Yes the 16 hours training is BS, hopefully that will change in the future. Quoted:
Quoted:
His whole argument rests on the fallacious assumption that "well regulated" applies to citizens and their right to own firearms. I can't really link to a magazine article- I'm sure someone will.. He is basically pushing for a 16 hour mandatory training for concealed carry, and is unable to see how this gem of legislation could and would be misused. I think he getting the 16 hr. training for CCW remark from the libtard state that he is from, IL. They are requiring 16 hrs. of training/instruction for non Mil./LEO or prior service. Bullshit |
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