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Posted: 5/30/2002 11:56:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2002 8:06:53 PM EDT by 911lifesvr]
If you had been with someone for twelve years, married for seven of them, and have three children; could you forgive an affair? If your spouse is still very sorry for the awful mistake a year later, what would you do? If one year later you are getting along with them better than you ever have, would you try again or go for the divorce any way? [spank] (info update) We had been together from the ages 17 & 14. We have been living appart since April 2001. We talk more now and treat eachother better. Do you think that is only because we don't live together or could this just have been one of lifes hard lessons to learn?
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 11:59:33 AM EDT
Honestly, an affair is one of the few things I would never forgive someone for, but if the relationship is going great, why mess it up any more? More importantly, you have three children with this woman, though it may seem harsh, these children are more important than your moral judgement. Stay with her but watch her like a hawk, its what I would do. Keving67
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 11:59:59 AM EDT
Once they cheat it gets easier and easier for them to do it again. You have to decide if you want to pay alimony and child support or if It'd be cheaper to keep her and always have that doubt in the back of your mind. Just my 2 cents
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 12:01:10 PM EDT
Stick it out. One indescretion can be forgiven. Everyone makes mistakes, and if she is truly contrite, forgive her. And make sure you use a condom.
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 12:01:18 PM EDT
ewwwwwerrrummmmmm, Tough one. If you are a Christian, Christ tells you to forgive. Now, can you stand to stay married? That's a completely different question. I guess my answer is if you can forgive and still have a fruitful, fulfilling relationship, then YES. If you can't because of the distrust, animosity, etc., then you need to leave and maybe talk to someone. Goodluck, as I assume this wasn't an academic question. -legrue
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 12:02:14 PM EDT
i would forgive them as a person, but that doesnt mean they get to come back to you. they betrayed you. it is God's place to judge, so forgive the person and move on with YOUR life. lose the other person and move on or it will drag you into the dirt before robbing you cold.
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 12:03:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 911lifesvr: If you had been with someone for twelve years, married for seven of them, and had three children; could you forgive an affair? If your spouse is still very sorry for the awful mistake a year later, what would you do? [b]If one year later you are getting along with them better than you ever have,[/b] would you try again or go for the divorce any way? ------------------------------------------------ If you're getting along great with the spouse, what's the reason for the divorce? To hurt the spouse? To destroy your children's family? To make a point? It's probably no one's business, but since you brought it up, are you the one going forward with the divorce or are you the one trying to figure out why the other person is still going for divorce?
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 12:28:06 PM EDT
It would be hard to forgive a dead woman!
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 12:58:52 PM EDT
Forgive? Yes Forget? NEVER!!!!! "the first time is always the hardest"
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 1:03:27 PM EDT
Forgive... Once!!! I'm not much for counseling but you might want to do a bit with the mate.. Just to clarify and really know WHY, so it don't happen again..
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 1:12:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2002 1:12:51 PM EDT by ura_baddog]
Sounds like YOU have forgiven her. If you don't want the divorce don't get it. Forget about watching her a cheater will outsmart most people sooner or later if they want to. I told my wife, girlfriend at the time. I will never cheat on you while we are together. I will call you and break up with you from the bedroom if necessary. If you cheat on me and I will find out sooner or later someone is going to get hurt. She said "who would get hurt" [shock] I said "I cant tell ya, but you have a 1 in 3 chance and those aren't very good odds." [whacko] I am a man of my word and she knows that. Between us, I would never lay a hand on her, or the guy. Unless he knows me then he should have known better. I would not stand for it and would not give it a second thought I will leave the marriage and that I hope would hurt someone At least it sound good ?
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 1:19:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By riddler: Forgive? Yes Forget? NEVER!!!!! "the first time is always the hardest"
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I just got divorced with no kids (thank God) and no alimony, but if we had children, I know we would have stayed together. A lot of my friends that have kids freaked when they heard I was getting divorced, because I think they felt the same way. ie: were it not for the kids, they would've been long gone. That being said, If you guys are getting along well now, you should give it a fair shot. I get along better now than I ever have with my ex (since my honeymoon) but there is something to be said about working through a difficult thing toghether. (see my sig. line)
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 1:23:54 PM EDT
That is the one thing I would never forgive. The divorce would have already happened.
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 1:27:45 PM EDT
I spent 15 years of my life doing marriage and family therapy, and the most telling comment I ever heard on the issue of extra marital affairs came from the female half of a couple I was working with during an individual session. She said, "you don't have an affair for the sex. You have it to have someone to talk to." That one statemnt taught me more about why people cheat than any other single event. If you guys are getting along better than ever, I'll bet you're talking more, and sharing more than ever before. If she loves you, and it sounds like she does, she's already punished herself more than you ever could. Put the past behind you. No, you won't forget it and trying to will only serve to keep it fresh on your mind. Just let it be there as something that happened once, that isn't there any longer. Enjoy what's there to be enjoyed in the here and now and in the future, and let the past be just that---the past.
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 1:35:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shamayim: I spent 15 years of my life doing marriage and family therapy, and the most telling comment I ever heard on the issue of extra marital affairs came from the female half of a couple I was working with during an individual session. She said, "you don't have an affair for the sex. You have it to have someone to talk to." That one statemnt taught me more about why people cheat than any other single event. If you guys are getting along better than ever, I'll bet you're talking more, and sharing more than ever before. If she loves you, and it sounds like she does, she's already punished herself more than you ever could. Put the past behind you. No, you won't forget it and trying to will only serve to keep it fresh on your mind. Just let it be there as something that happened once, that isn't there any longer. Enjoy what's there to be enjoyed in the here and now and in the future, and let the past be just that---the past.
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Amen, shamayim. [^]
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 2:56:54 PM EDT
Wolf_Nazi has a good point, but shamayim makes sense too. Personally, I couldn't get over it. As has been said elsewhere, "trust only when you have to and only those you can." Your wife should be worthy of trust, but after something like this . . . As painful as it may be in the short term, I'd move on. Your kids, once they get older, will understand.
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 3:25:29 PM EDT
Personally I never forgive or forget but I might let her stay anyway if she's a good girl. Of course I would no longer be faithful to her and would get as much nookie on the side as I could, and if she caught me BFD.
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 3:32:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2002 3:38:11 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 3:35:06 PM EDT
To forgive is one thing, to ever trust again is another. Without trust, a relationship ain't worth jack-$#!+. I've been married for ten years now, but I'd probably be gone.
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 4:35:44 PM EDT
When a woman cheats its usally out of spite,witch makes it an unforgiveable act.If aman dose it it usally dosent have anything to do with his wife/girlfriend,its more like a trophy that will only collect dust.In my opinion women are like tigers once they have the tast of human blood/or cheat its only a matter of time before they do it again.Oh yeh almost forgot may the flames begin (just joking)
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 4:47:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 911lifesvr: If you had been with someone for twelve years, married for seven of them, and had three children; could you forgive an affair? If your spouse is still very sorry for the awful mistake a year later, what would you do? If one year later you are getting along with them better than you ever have, would you try again or go for the divorce any way? [spank]
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I want to thank everyone for the advice, its great insight. Please keep it coming! [:D]
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 5:02:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2002 5:04:27 PM EDT by USP40C]
Depends an awful lot on how I found out. If she came to me and told me, there is hope, she at least has enough respect for me to tell me herself, and face the possible repercussions. Her eyes will say a whole lot during this conversation, so as hard as it may be to look at her, focus on her so intensely that you do not miss a thing. If I heard about it, confronted her, and then she came clean, it is bye-bye time. I may forgive, and in time forget, (you have to to truly forgive), but I could not live with having found out from someone else. There is just something about that scenario which I find abhorrent. Has this been a problem in past relationships? Another important question, a pattern is no good, and I am gone. But if it really was a one time mistake, and she came to me first, there is a chance. I don't care if she met him at work, the bar, wherever it may be, she will absolutely NEVER see him again. If it was a woman, call me next time!![:D]
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 5:15:26 PM EDT
Go with your gut, but spend all the time you need to decide; fuck how you feel now, this is the time to dope out your future together. Personally, it's all over for me if I were in your shoes. I just couldn't get past it, no matter what. The marriage is broken, but can be fixed, but it'll never be the same. Who knows, it become stronger; stranger things have happened. Bottom line, unless you're missing an arm, an eye, or a chromosome, and you just don't have it with the ladies, move on. Life's too short. Get some counselling. You won't regret it. Best of luck, (and I mean it),
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 6:01:41 PM EDT
I have been in your shoes,if she is sorry forgive her. work things out for the children especially if both of you are getting along now. try and forget about it. I told my wife if it ever happened again I wasn't going to leave, she was and she was going to lose everything not me. over time I hope you feel better, I did. Good Luck Walter
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 6:13:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 6:17:51 PM EDT
Stay together for the kids. I would forgive.
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 6:20:06 PM EDT
Already been there , each circumstance is different . And what I see is that women crave attention and validation that they are still desirable . Shayamin is right , in my business I see it everyday ; poor woman is alone at home all day with a husband that pays very little attention to her . My former boss would always joking ask if I got 'lucky' after I came back after a service call to some housewives home .
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 6:36:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 6:45:13 PM EDT
Women are whores.
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 7:00:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AlClenin: Women are whores.
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Dude...are you trying to be funny or just display your ignorance? Wow. I'm almost speechless. For all those who say "stay together for the children" you need to realize something: it is better for the kids to see to happy parents that are not together than to see those two parents constantly fighting and living a loveless marriage. What are they supposed to learn from that? Another thing, anyone who withholds visitation or child support from the ex to hurt the ex isn't really accomplishing their goal. They are only hurting the kids.
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 7:05:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/31/2002 1:04:56 PM EDT by zonan]
I originally said: Forgiveness, in this case, is irrelevant. Once a married couple brings children into the world their responsibility to those kids takes precedence over their feelings (or lack thereof) for each other. Divorce is not an honorable option when kids are involved. But that was a reaction to the fact that several couples I know are suddenly divorcing after 25-30 years of marriage, just because they got tired of each other. No cheating was involved, that I'm aware of, so I don't think it's responsible. But when your wife is going behind your back like you guys describe...I can understand. Do what's best for you and your kids. Don't worry about what's best for her.
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 7:18:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 8:12:58 AM EDT
I've got to say that reading this post is like a nightmare for me. Some of you may have read a For Sale post of mine in which I mentioned "bad shit at the pdm house". Well guess what..... I've been married for 12 years with 2 kids (8 and 12). I've been planning on retiring for about 2 years (20+ years Army SOF) and have lined up some contract work to bank some extra cash for the family. I've been knocking out 3-week stints using leave time. Well I returned home from one about a month ago and all appears fine. I went back to the Army job on a Monday and a friend gets me off to the side with a real serious look. Turns out my loving wife was observed in a bar with another guy. They were, and I quote, "tongue kissing and engaging in pre F**k foreplay". My friend who caught her read her the riot act. He tells her that all will be cool if she just leaves the bar and goes home. Well she leaves all right...with the guy. My bud sees her and her girlfriend leaving with two guys. My wife is seen getting in the back seat with her little kissing mate. They leave and head in the direction of her girl friends house. I confronted my wife and she denied everything. After I explained that 2 friends of mine saw her she finally admitted to kissing the guy. She denies anything else went on. Her story is that they just gave the guys a ride to another bar. Great except…. The bar they said they went to is in the opposite direction of they way they went when they left. They headed in the direction of her girlfriends house. Her girlfriend screws married guys as a habit. She’s basically a whore (actually the guys help pay her bills….still a whore). Her girlfriend’s house was empty. Her kid was babysitting mine. The way it adds up to me is that they went back the whore’s house and consummated their little affair. The problem is that, above all else, I trusted my wife. I thought she was completely loyal. Life is a shit sandwich right now. I’m hit with stop loss and I’m losing job offers by the bushel. My body is frigging broke (back, hips, lungs, etc.) . I’m moving, selling a home and trying to make a major career change. And now this!! I feel like I’m getting kicked in the face with a pair of Chippewa boots (the old mountain boot for those of you who remember). My wife refuses to talk about what went on that night. She also refuses to evaluate her relationship with the whore girlfriend. We’ve been in counseling for about 3 weeks but I’m having a real hard time with this whole situation. I moved out about 3 days ago and am now seriously considering a legal separation. I don’t think I’ll ever be over this. I really need her to tell me what happened that night, total honesty. I need her to re-look her relationship with her girlfriend. My wife just flat out refuses to do either. Wish me luck.
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 9:36:12 AM EDT
pdm, It made my stomach turn (flashback w/ no children)to read your post. I know you're tired, in disbelief, angry, disgusted, tormented and at times numb. In my book, there is no room for infidelity and disloyalty. I cut bait and ran, of course, that's easy for me to say with no children. I went through a phase with my friends where I would tell them "why don't you just pour gasoline on me and set me on fire to take my mind of the pain." At the time it wasn't a bad alternative. However, things have changed in the past two years and it will for you. It'll take some time to calm the raging storm that's at hand. With that said, I wish you well in getting the information you pursue, however try not to set yourself up for another let down. Goodluck "Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them" Albert Einstein
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 9:47:17 AM EDT
Holy $hit, pdm, I'll be praying for you. Good luck.
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 11:56:43 AM EDT
I think ONE AND ONLY ONE affair could be forgiven if exceptional circumstances caused it to occur and it was a very short term thing. However, the key thing is what the cheating spouse does after the affair is revealed. The circumstances that caused the affair to begin with need to be eliminated FOREVER. That's the only way to be able to start trusting again. There are two interesting examples here: pdms, Where his wife denies, denies, denies, after being caught red-handed. Sorry to say dude, but you need to get out of that one. Make sure you get the kids, too. Also, before you take legal action, make sure that you get your guns into the hands of a trusted friend. If your wife is being so hostile to admitting fault, you can be assured of a nasty divorce, including a restraining order. 911lifesvr, Where his wife admits it. You have a chance to save your marriage assuming you can eliminate the chances of it occurring again. She should take you to the person she cheated with and declare that she loves you and will never cheat with him again.
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 12:47:17 PM EDT
pdm, I'm sorry to here about your situation. I hope reading all this advice will help. At least you know your not alone out there. Good Luck! And I want to thank everyone again for all the great comments on this situation. Keep them coming. Thanks! [:D]
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 12:58:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/31/2002 1:03:10 PM EDT by zonan]
Originally Posted By TimJ:
Originally Posted By zonan: Divorce is not an honorable option when kids are involved.
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Don't you think it's HER responsibility to keep her legs closed outside of marriage???? She's the one who cheated. She's the one who violated the trust and the sanctity of her marriage vows. Cheating is not an honorable option when there are children involved.
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You're right about that! My point was that everything must be done to keep the family together for the kids, even if the parents hate each other. Of course it's possible that it would be better for the kids if the parents split up rather than having continual bickering between the parents... the parents should try to bicker only when the kids aren't around [:D] otherwise the purpose of staying together (to maintain a stable environment for the kids) is defeated.
If it happened to me she'd be out on her ass in a heartbeat. No kids, no alimony, supervised visitation with the kids-maybe. She wants to get screwed? I'll screw her.
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I understand that as well, and I think my original statement was too simplistic. I said what I said in my first post because several couples (parents of friends) who have been married for 25-30 years suddenly decided to divorce! Something is seriously wrong all of a sudden...I have never seen this happening everywhere around me like this before. When no cheating is involved and the couple decides to split, I think it is irresponsible to their kids....but when cheating is involved...splitting up is certainly more understandable, if nothing else.
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 1:05:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pdm: Wish me luck.
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You've got it, and some prayers as well.
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 3:03:57 PM EDT
Very sorry to hear about the problems, hang in there. I personally could not forgive even one affair. I also don't think it should be forgiven. A wife cheating on you is betraying you in the deepest nastiest way possible, there could not be a worse betrayal. If I found out, even if she came crying to me and telling me to fess up I would have one and exactly one thing to say. Goodbye. Don't stay in a situation like that for the kids. You can still see and spend time with them (hell you can fight for custody if you want.) But the environment that staying creates will do the kids more harm than good because there will be unhappiness between you and wife and no matter how good a show you put on for the kids THEY WILL KNOW. The little gems are a whole lot smarter then they often get credit for. I wouldn't be able to do. Everytime I looked at her, or she tried to get close, I would have the thought of the ordeal in my head. "Leaving on a southern train, only yesterday, you lied." -STP Mike
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 3:21:07 PM EDT
911's situation sounds like it could possibly be salvaged. His kids are at a dangerous age for the parents to divorce. If both people really want to try again, there's no harm in trying considering what's on the line. Things won't be the same though. It's impossible to regain the trust once the spell is broken. PDM's situation is almost worst case. You know what happened that night PDM, so you can move on to the next step whatever that is. She is never going to tell you and if she is acting as you described, you have a real problem. I feel for you. I went through that with a girlfriend a long time ago and it sucks.
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 3:57:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rustygun: 911's situation sounds like it could possibly be salvaged. His kids are at a dangerous age for the parents to divorce. If both people really want to try again, there's no harm in trying considering what's on the line. Things won't be the same though. It's impossible to regain the trust once the spell is broken. PDM's situation is almost worst case. You know what happened that night PDM, so you can move on to the next step whatever that is. She is never going to tell you and if she is acting as you described, you have a real problem. I feel for you. I went through that with a girlfriend a long time ago and it sucks.
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Couldn'ta' said it better.. 911; go for it.. (been there done that) PDM: Get out... Move on... (been there done that too)... It gets better guys...
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 9:12:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/3/2002 7:35:51 PM EDT by Ogre_4070]
DIVORCE would be the only option for me. I could never forgive my spouse for cheating on me. I can not agree with the ones who said to stay together for the kids. Kids usually suffer from a divorce but sometimes the unstable/unhappy home environment will cause more damage in the long run. Besides, the children should have been considered before the affair. Were you thinking about what it would do to your children when you decided to break your marriage vows? No, your pleasure and needs were number one. But we really need more information for an educated answer. Are you certain you are still very sorry a year later or are you just now feeling remorse? Or maybe you left him for the other man and now he doesn't want you either? Is this the first time you cheated? Sometimes a friendly divorce is better than a bitter marriage. Your spouse will NEVER be able to forget your betrayal. All trust was destroyed by your affair. If you can remain friends, it will be much easier on the children.
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 10:04:58 PM EDT
pdm, that's aweful. You have my best wishes. I just have to ask one question, why did you marry her in the first place? What characteristic made you decide that this was it? Did she ever do anything before this that hinted at trouble?
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 10:26:44 PM EDT
Been through this, and I've been exactly were you are now, with the exception of NO KIDS. This was 15 years ago, and highschool sweetheart, and wife of 9 years went out and had an affair. After I found out about it, we seperated, and kept in touch. I loved her very much, and a year later she was still sorry for what she had done, and we were getting along GREAT. She was the woman I wanted to have children with, so we moved back in and gave it another try. End result was that 2 years after that she cheated on me again (not with the same guy as before). It had nothing to do with how sexual we were, or how much I paid attention to her, 'cause god knows I paid a lot of attention to her, through out the first try, and even more during the second try. Her only response to all this was that she wanted to try something new, and she wanted to know that she was attractive to someone else other than me. Great reason!!! Even when she admitted that neither of them pleased her as much as me. From where I've been, I say move on, before she rips your heart out agian!!!!! I didn't have kids, so my heart goes out to you bro! I can tell you 10 years later, that you will survive. Just my .02 cents!! Free advice is worth what you pay for it!!!!! starsil9 [soapbox]
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 11:11:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 11:26:24 PM EDT
Once a cheater, always a cheater.
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 11:30:03 PM EDT
Forgive the woman and forgive yourself, try to make it work again. I don't know the situation but since you two have children involved you both have the moral responsability to keep their best interest at hand, IMHO. Good Luck.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 5:48:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DrFrige: OOOOH WAIT!!! HOW 'Bout this one!!!! You come home from work and find a condom wrapper on the floor and IT ISNT EVEN YOUR BRAND!! She denies it 'till the cows come home... To this day though she still says she doesnt know where the condom wrapper came from... ...gimme a break.
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Same here. I bought a box of condoms right before I had my vasectomy, but then I didn't need them and never opened the box. Stored them in a drawer in the spare bedroom...but then forgot about them. Meanwhile, the next year and a half our marriage goes to shit. She starts drinking heavily, put on a ton of weight, and smoked incessantly. And cut me off from sex...after I had the vasectomy. (Thanks!) I have a son from my first marriage who I have custody of, but no kids from this marriage of 6 years. Last August, we rented a lake house in Canada with her parents and sister, and spent two weeks there. I had to work a couple of days in the middle of that stretch, and came home. While thoroughly cleaning the house (she had become a slob as well) I found a condom (still in the wrapper) under our bed. I went to the spare bedroom, and there were only four rubbers left out of the now-opened box. I confronted her about it when we got home, of course she denied anything happened, and insinuated that I was crazy for imagining that something happened. EXACT same words my first wife used when her brother told me he caught her hot and heavy with her boss. Anyway, she moved out several days later, claiming everything was my fault. She's moving out of state, and she is willing to have an amiable split, even giving me the house. I guess she knows how pissed I can get, and how good I am at digging up intel. (She had been keeping an electronic diary on our PC, but then uninstalled it and deleted the data file after I confronted her. After she moved out, I recovered the deleted file and cracked her password -- his name is Tim. She doesn't know that I know this though.) Ain't I a bastard [;)]
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 1:37:50 PM EDT
Sorry to here about all of you other guys with similar stories. Did it leave a bad taste in your mouth when it came to other women? And those of you that gave it a shot again did you ever manage to trust again? Normally the man gets the bad rap, but it seems that women seem to have problems with "keeping it their pants".
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 8:45:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 911lifesvr: If you had been with someone for twelve years, married for seven of them, and have three children; could you forgive an affair?
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No. But stay togather for the kids and your financial security. Just make it clear to the bitch that you are her husbansd in name only and you will live your life however you weant from this point forward, including throwing the stones to other broads. That or kill her.
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