I suggest to stop arguing with the guy that has openly admitted to sponsoring an Afghan "interpreter" to move over here, such people are broken in the mind and there's no reasoning with them.

So what?  Do you understand the concept of ROI and how little these cost with regard to the potential effects they bring to the table?  The Ukrainians turned the 1980's TU-141 reconnaissance drone into a 1000km loitering munition with a 300lb warhead.  A lot of them crash before they pass the FLOT, because they clip trees or power lines before they get to altitude.  The ones that don't crash have attacked targets 30 miles from Moscow. I would call that a win.

What do you think the cost ratio for one BMP is to these drones?  Assuming a low end cost of $300K for a clapped out BMP, what's the ratio of drones to BMPs?  let's assume a high end of $1500 per drone, that's still a 200:1 ratio drones to BMP.  So if they take out one BMP and miss 199 times they are even on their investment.  One Javelin missile is $200K by itself.

What changes when they take out one high end radar or missile system?

Even the one that missed in the video gave actionable intelligence from a remote ISR platform on enemy systems which provided tactical value well commensurate with the cost of a one way drone.

But let's get into your infallible mitigators.

A camouflaged net cannot be used while the vehicle is in motion. It also will only work if it is supported off of the vehicle creating standoff, meaning the vehicle is now immobile and requires it to be taken down to displace. Or it just works once and gets left behind.   Now just the threat of a drone attack has made the vehicle less mobile which reduces Russian capabilities and decision space for planning , and also makes them easier to attack with more conventional methods.  Something this small can also be maneuvered into small spaces in between barriers.

I'm glad you brought up slat armor. Slat armor cannot 100% envelop the entire vehicle and small agile man-in-the-loop aircraft like this are where you can still attack a vehicle with slat armor.  Forcing the enemy to devote resources to installing slat armor on every vehicle because of this threat is a net positive effect in itself.  In fact, creating a forcing function that alters the enemy's TTP's, resourcing, or OODA loop is a win in itself.


So like I said, i'll just call the Uke's and tell them our resident expert-by-osmosis JIA says it's all not worth it.

Those warheads had the normal PIBD fuzes removed, so likely put sone thought into those issues, for example they probably aren't vulnerable to slat armor disrupting the circuit.

It would be easier to make 50,000 drones than 50,000 RPG rounds.

FIFY. And, my guess is you have no idea how an RPG warhead works, either.

Who would that be?

That drone is unlikely to carry 500lbs. What payload it does have it can't carry it very far and not very long. The recharge time would probably be 2 hours or so since you have to let the batteries cool down after attempting to haul max payload.

I've designed, built, and flown over a dozen drones from scratch and modified dozens of others over the last 20 years. The drones in the OP can easily lift 2-2.5lbs.

It's not a question of where he grips it, it's a simple question of weight ratios.

That's an operational requirement that has actual meaning vs one that is made up based on a lot of guesswork about the future.

ETA: At least you were clever enough to use a hex instead of a quad. Much better ability to deal with a broken prop or futzed motor controller. (Have had both happen.)

Effectiveness is subjective. With that said the specifics on those systems I would have to dig through OSINT stuff to ensure I'm not cross-pollinating stuff I got elsewhere.  The easy answer is the Ukrainians adding any organic depth to their systems is a tremendous positive.

The reality is that the aggregate volume of the drone threat in general is what is shaping the effects on the battlefield.  It's forcing an arms race into countermeasures and who can develop the most effective combined arms integration of the technology.

I'm still waiting on him to tell me how an RPG warhead works.

I'll even settle for how it could even potentially work in this configuration.

Who did that?

Thank you for your persistence. It is mind numbing to read the other guy relentlessly pound his made up opinion against SMEs. Drones are a new dimension to large scale war we are witnessing on near real time feeds. It is a great opportunity to learn from you guys that know drones and related munitions.

I was wondering what type of munition do US drones use? I imagine they are purpose built and not using 40mm or other cobbled together warhead?  Ukraine is doing great with what it has but curious what a tech country like us are doing with drones, especially the smaller ones beyond just recon.

He probably means me, although I didn't "sponsor" shit. I helped the family of a US citizen interpreter of mine get on a plane out of HKIA.  That plane actually went to Dubai.

He's just too chickenshit to actually name names.

Being an asymmetric weapon first world nations have avoided development in the armed group 1-3 arena, to our detriment. That is, until very recently.

In the next few years we'll probably see a lot of systems compete and rise/fall.

This thread a been a veritable smorgasbord of Willfull Ignorance.  

I’m going to have to @ every one of the Fake Shit Bois every time we get another video of these drones in action.

There are even Rooskie attacking drone videos, if they refuse to believe it because most are coming from Ukraine. Twitter, Telegram links, Reddit, YouTube, a ton of drone videos. Some include the observer drone video of the FPV drone hitting an armor target.

Even the F1 grenade drops that bounce off armor often scare the tank/IFV driver and they boogie not waiting around for arty or another drone.

A couple of questions for those in the know:


Will an rpg stop a tank?  My assumption would be no, unless you hit a track or something on the outside needed to move.  I would think the armor would protect against a run of the mill rpg.

#2. Do those rpgs need to have some momentum behind them to help with penetration?  Not activation but penetration through armor?  Say it is going 30 mph when it hits and detonates.  Is it going to have expected penetration?  I would think that when fired the normal way the impact velocity would be much higher.

Yep…

No ghost of Kyiv, there is a sergeant mavic, however

How’s the 3 day war, tovarisch?

They have no problems getting off the ground, ask the Russian BMP that got hit :)

Could you imagine being a UkeBot on an anonymous internet forum and feeling the need to white knight endlessly for Lord Z and a corrupt Eastern European country?

They work just fine when used with drones. As for the mechanism of the fuse, that’s daemon’s area. I just like and hate watching armor get blown up.

I can imagine a technical discussion about the capabilities of improvised weapons devolving into a bunch of poop slinging gremlins bitching about politics when there's a crazy ass war to be observed.

Depends….

Is it a European drone
Or
an African drone

Hint: it involves coconuts.

Fully laden?

Plus, the physics of how a HEAT round works isn't simply crashing a RPG round at low speed against a tank.

Drone swarms are an up and coming thing.

Sgt. Mavic! lol

Bat bombs were the beginning, now we will have bat drones that won't burn down friendly buildings.

This discussion is about the viability of using FPV drones to attack with RPG warheads.

Only mouth breathers try to deny all the observable fact evidence of their use and/or try to turn it into "white knight endlessly for Lord Z and a corrupt Eastern European country" or other non related BS.  

They all should be ashamed of themselves but apparently do not because its "an anonymous internet forum".

Wat

God damn.

daemon, don't let the obtuse bastards get ya down.

I really appreciate your posts in this thread.

In this thread, numerous members here have demonstrated their willful ignorance and willingness to maintain their positions even in the face of direct evidence that contradicts them. It's been very enlightening, and not at all in a good way. Many on the right have proven themselves to be just as resistant to facts and observable reality as the left is.

This thread has been both enlightening and disheartening.

You can't make a hatch thick enough to stop an RPG, yet light enough to be lifted by the crew.

The speed only needs to be high enough to crush the cap and connect the current.

Kharn

Not necessarily.  If they've pulled the rocket motor off, and removed the delay self-destruct element, they can electrically detonate the explosives from behind.  That's what they appear to be doing here.

There are advantages to this, since that way cage / bar armor  can't break the PIBD piezoelectric circuit.

In other words, the speed can be zero at detonation.

Good summary. Maybe we need a UKR sub or a Drone sub, but then GD would loose it's entertainment and time suck value

Hey, back on the original topic -- do we know if UKR is really stockpiling a huge number (10s of thousands) of these drones to use in the predicted, upcoming counter-offensive (Brads, Challengers, Leopards, oh my) that will either be East or South towards Crimea?

Any info or bets on that?

The real advantages are the reduction in weight due to removing the base detonating element, and an electric firing circuit means a safe to arm mechanism controlled by the pilot.

Imagine weak attempts to thread-slide… forever.

It'd be great if they're stockpiling them prior to the counter offense. They have like 1000 drone operators so it won't be 100,000 all at once.  Plus you want reserves of them. Don't want to have 0 attack drones in your inventory after day 1.

Lol yup. Bunch of fpv drones have been RPGing the Russians.

Perhaps two drones could carry it suspended by a rope

RPGs have EFP warheads, the top armor on tanks is thinner.

A PG 7, 9 or 15 does not have an EFP warhead. 99% of RPGs do not have EFP's.  They have HEAT warheads, which are significantly different.

LoL.    Another.   .    Ok boss, go ahead and explain to us the “physics of how a HEAT round works.”

We want to learn.

You're right, the warhead can be fired without crashing it at all.

Speed has absolutely nothing to do with it.