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Posted: 8/23/2004 9:32:19 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 9:35:45 AM EST
Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

I disagree that the ads should be stopped. You mean people shouldn't be able to air their opinions on candidates for public office?
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 9:36:22 AM EST
This is good. Now when the attacks continue (as they have already said they will not stop even if Bush asks them too), Kerry will have to deal with the attackers straight up. He won't have Bush to blame it on this time. And if he does that, well, that will show the voters one more time what a whiny crying baby fuck he really is.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 9:40:13 AM EST
Too bad the republican party can't get a candidate that will tell the democrats to go to hell.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 9:40:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2004 9:42:30 AM EST by SWIRE]
It's also good thing because the Swift Vets are having their stories torn to shreds. For example the Swift Vet who got a Bronze Star had his request for the award also say there was enemy fire at the event he said there was no enemy fire. Whether there was or wasn't isn't the point but this guy acts like he didn't know what the paperwork for the bronze star said when he was called on the discrepancy. They lose a ton of credibility with mistakes like that. So seperating GW from this group is a good thing.

But they have served their purpose. They forced the Kerry campaign to use part of their limited budget between now and November to respond to the ads.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 9:45:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2004 9:46:41 AM EST by Airwolf]
apnews.myway.com/article/20040823/D84L30100.html


Bush Denounces Ads by Outside Groups

Aug 23, 1:57 PM (ET)
By PETE YOST

CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) - President Bush denounced TV ads by outside groups attacking both John Kerry and himself on Monday and called for a halt to all such political efforts. "I think they're bad for the system," he said.



Why does this statement disturb me so much?

Who the fuck should be able to tell ANYONE how to express their political opinion (as long as it's non-violent)?

This is BULLSHIT. "...bad for the system"? What the fuck is bad for the system when people can organize and speak out?

If it's slander or libel then there are laws in place to handle that, you don't shut people up in this country because of what they have to say.

This whole thing is VERY disturbing to me.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 9:47:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2004 9:48:31 AM EST by renotse]
Bush Denounces Ads by Outside Groups
this is the appropriate title.

You missed the point....It is not the SwiftVets only that he denounced...he called an end to all independent (527) ads.

O'Niel has already said that if Bush called on him to stop advertising that he (O'Niel) would not stop.

This is a no lose situation for Bush because Soros and MoveOn.org has spent 62 million on these ads and KerryCo has not wispered a peep of desent until SwiftVets spent a measly 500k.

Kerry is a hypocrite and a whiner.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 9:51:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
apnews.myway.com/article/20040823/D84L30100.html


Bush Denounces Ads by Outside Groups

Aug 23, 1:57 PM (ET)
By PETE YOST

CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) - President Bush denounced TV ads by outside groups attacking both John Kerry and himself on Monday and called for a halt to all such political efforts. "I think they're bad for the system," he said.



Why does this statement disturb me so much?

Who the fuck should be able to tell ANYONE how to express their political opinion (as long as it's non-violent)?

This is BULLSHIT. "...bad for the system"? What the fuck is bad for the system when people can organize and speak out?

If it's slander or libel then there are laws in place to handle that, you don't shut people up in this country because of what they have to say.

This whole thing is VERY disturbing to me.



It is bad for the system in the sense that ONLY 527 groups can run political advertising within 60 days of an election. Groups that are not organized under 527 may NOT run any ads what so ever. Groups such as the NRA, GOA and even the VPC may not run any ads. I think the whole thing is bullshit, but if MoveOn.org can run an ad, so should the NRA....

I also like how they are trying to link Swift Vets to Bush by saying they have some common financial donors. Yeah, I bet MoveOn.org doesn't have ANY Kerry supporters sending them money. Oh puh-leeeeze....
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 9:51:44 AM EST
I saw Bush say he "Condems" all these smear advts...Now the Dem's won't accept his condemation. Monomanical assholes that they are. They just dont get it.

It's the senate testimony that he gave that is the real issue...his medal lies just led up to the lying testimony he gave.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 9:52:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 9:53:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By renotse:
Bush Denounces Ads by Outside Groups
this is the appropriate title.

You missed the point....It is not the SwiftVets only that he denounced...he called an end to all independent (527) ads.

O'Niel has already said that if Bush called on him to stop advertising that he (O'Niel) would not stop.

This is a no lose situation for Bush because Soros and MoveOn.org has spent 62 million on these ads and KerryCo has not wispered a peep of desent until SwiftVets spent a measly 500k.

Kerry is a hypocrite and a whiner.




Exactly....it has to do with 527 orgs.


Bomber
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 9:54:05 AM EST
The elitist boobs in washington can't have us lowly civilians exposing their lies. I posted here yesterday that Bush would do this.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 9:54:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
apnews.myway.com/article/20040823/D84L30100.html


Bush Denounces Ads by Outside Groups

Aug 23, 1:57 PM (ET)
By PETE YOST

CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) - President Bush denounced TV ads by outside groups attacking both John Kerry and himself on Monday and called for a halt to all such political efforts. "I think they're bad for the system," he said.



Why does this statement disturb me so much?

Who the fuck should be able to tell ANYONE how to express their political opinion (as long as it's non-violent)?

This is BULLSHIT. "...bad for the system"? What the fuck is bad for the system when people can organize and speak out?

If it's slander or libel then there are laws in place to handle that, you don't shut people up in this country because of what they have to say.

This whole thing is VERY disturbing to me.



+1
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 9:55:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By renotse:
Bush Denounces Ads by Outside Groups
this is the appropriate title.

You missed the point....It is not the SwiftVets only that he denounced...he called an end to all independent (527) ads.

O'Niel has already said that if Bush called on him to stop advertising that he (O'Niel) would not stop.

This is a no lose situation for Bush because Soros and MoveOn.org has spent 62 million on these ads and KerryCo has not wispered a peep of desent until SwiftVets spent a measly 500k.

Kerry is a hypocrite and a whiner.



You are correct and sKerry will not condemn them.]

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 9:56:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By renotse:
This is a no lose situation for Bush because Soros and MoveOn.org has spent 62 million on these ads and KerryCo has not wispered a peep of desent until SwiftVets spent a measly 500k.




yep i agree. money well spent. now kerry will look like even more of a hippocrate if the moveon.org tools continue to air ads.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 9:56:48 AM EST
Exactly what is the definition of a 527???

lemme guess....arfcom has an answer in <5 minutes....Hell it is Monday morning afterall......
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 9:56:59 AM EST
Thanks Scollins for the clarification.

Goddamned McCain-Finegold act is the worst abomination that has been foisted on the country in decades.

When the world looks back at the smoking ruin that the United States has become I think that this law will be marked as one of the turning points. The fact that SCOTUS ruled that free speech under the First Amendment can be limited if it's in the greater interest of the government to do so.

Link Posted: 8/23/2004 9:57:57 AM EST

For example the Swift Vet who got a Bronze Star had his request for the award also say there was enemy fire at the event he said there was no enemy fire. Whether there was or wasn't isn't the point but this guy acts like he didn't know what the paperwork for the bronze star said when he was called on the discrepancy. They lose a ton of credibility with mistakes like that. So seperating GW from this group is a good thing.


Swire, The only problem with your statement is that the guy never requested the award. It was given based on the after action reports (or some kind of report), and the group claims Kerry filled out the reports. None of this will ever get any clear answers, but that was his argument (Thurlow I believe it was; I'm getting them all mixed).
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:10:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By Airwolf:

Goddamned McCain-Finegold act is the worst abomination that has been foisted on the country in decades.




Yep, it's as bad as the AWB in my opinion.

And to use some of the words of our adversaries.....
Close the 527 loophole!

Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:10:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2004 10:15:43 AM EST by motown_steve]
I can't believe that any of you idiots support a President that will tell vetrans, who fought for their country that they cannot excercise their first amendment rights! McCain-Feingold is unconstitutional, and I do not care if SCOTUS says otherwise!

The swifties fought, bled and died for this nation, and now an American President has told them that they should stop expressing their opinion of a cantidate for the presidency! I think that Bush should shut the fuck up this time! He didn't go to Vietnam, he didn't fight for his country, and neither Bush nor Kerry have any right whatsoever to tell American hero's and vetrans to pull an ad!

BTW...I don't care if this is a political ploy that is actually advantageous for Bush, I don't care if he is just mugging for the cameras, I don't care! Bush voiced support for renewing the AWB, now he is voicing support for silencing combat vetrans! When is President Bush going to start voicing support for his base! When does Bush start vocalizing support for the people who put him in office! This may be the final nail in Bush's coffin for me! He may have just driven me to vote 3rd party!

Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:14:39 AM EST
Is Kerry still running the ads that blame Nixon for what LBJ did?
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:15:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By renotse:
Bush Denounces Ads by Outside Groups
this is the appropriate title.

You missed the point....It is not the SwiftVets only that he denounced...he called an end to all independent (527) ads.

O'Niel has already said that if Bush called on him to stop advertising that he (O'Niel) would not stop.

This is a no lose situation for Bush because Soros and MoveOn.org has spent 62 million on these ads and KerryCo has not wispered a peep of desent until SwiftVets spent a measly 500k.

Kerry is a hypocrite and a whiner.



George Soros spent millions to help pass the soft money reform, all the while knowing that he had a loophole. He setup moveon.org and dumped some 10's of millions into the group, which in turn rewards startup 527s with a few million each.

It was just reported that the RNC has spent $200M and the DNC $180M, but then factor in the additional $60-80M that Soros is funneling through the 527s.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:17:57 AM EST
HAH!

Bush & ROVE got them with the "rope a dope" again.

Problem: Kerry's folks have MILLIONS in 527 dollars and have been outspending Bush like mad in that sector.

Then Kerry has a problem with a 527 groups and asks Bush to condemn them.

Bush says: "Hey, lets get rid of all the 527 ads. I hope my opponent will agree."

In doing that, he forces the press to look to the Swifties when the ads continue (hard to prove colusion with Bush when they won't listen to Bush).

PLUS, as an added bonus, Kerry is now in the position where he has to try and muzzle the 527's or he looks (or is) a hypocrite.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:20:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
HAH!

Bush & ROVE got them with the "rope a dope" again.

Problem: Kerry's folks have MILLIONS in 527 dollars and have been outspending Bush like mad in that sector.

Then Kerry has a problem with a 527 groups and asks Bush to condemn them.

Bush says: "Hey, lets get rid of all the 527 ads. I hope my opponent will agree."

In doing that, he forces the press to look to the Swifties when the ads continue (hard to prove colusion with Bush when they won't listen to Bush).

PLUS, as an added bonus, Kerry is now in the position where he has to try and muzzle the 527's or he looks (or is) a hypocrite.



I'm glad you see it that way.

I see an American President that just told a group of combat vetrans to shut the fuck up!
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:20:31 AM EST
Last week a Swiftee rep was on H&C and was asked what they would do if Bush called on them to stop the ads.

He said it wouldn't make any difference because they aren't part of the Bush campaign, and they aren't doing it to promote Bush, they feel a duty to tell the truth about Kerry.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:26:44 AM EST
Um, sKerry does not care if he looks like a hypocrite. He IS one so looking like it is no big deal. Every time he gets caught he just weaves more lies to try and get out of it.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:31:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By renotse:
Bush Denounces Ads by Outside Groups...


+3 (or is it +4?)

Bush can now reasonably suggest that Kerry denounce moveon.org ads!!

An even more important benefit is that Kerry will look like a hypocrite when he tries to bring up GWB’s military service (say in the debates).

Kerry plain and simply walked into this one.

This is a brilliant move, IMHO.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:32:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2004 10:32:45 AM EST by motown_steve]

Originally Posted By 199:

Originally Posted By renotse:
Bush Denounces Ads by Outside Groups...


+3 (or is it +4?)

Bush can now reasonably suggest that Kerry denounce moveon.org ads!!

An even more important benefit is that Kerry will look like a hypocrite when he tries to bring up GWB’s military service (say in the debates).

Kerry plain and simply walked into this one.

This is a brilliant move, IMHO.



Kerry denounced the latest moveon.org ad the day that it came out!
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:35:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Conservador:
Too bad the republican party can't get a candidate that will tell the democrats to go to hell.



Well actually Dick Cheney did already. If more Republican lawmakers exposed the democrats for the whiney pussies they are I think more people with R's after their names would be elected.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:40:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I can't believe that any of you idiots support a President that will tell vetrans, who fought for their country that they cannot excercise their first amendment rights! McCain-Feingold is unconstitutional, and I do not care if SCOTUS says otherwise!

The swifties fought, bled and died for this nation, and now an American President has told them that they should stop expressing their opinion of a cantidate for the presidency! I think that Bush should shut the fuck up this time! He didn't go to Vietnam, he didn't fight for his country, and neither Bush nor Kerry have any right whatsoever to tell American hero's and vetrans to pull an ad!

BTW...I don't care if this is a political ploy that is actually advantageous for Bush, I don't care if he is just mugging for the cameras, I don't care! Bush voiced support for renewing the AWB, now he is voicing support for silencing combat vetrans! When is President Bush going to start voicing support for his base! When does Bush start vocalizing support for the people who put him in office! This may be the final nail in Bush's coffin for me! He may have just driven me to vote 3rd party!




+1
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:41:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2004 10:45:39 AM EST by Sweep]
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:42:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
HAH!

Bush & ROVE got them with the "rope a dope" again.

Problem: Kerry's folks have MILLIONS in 527 dollars and have been outspending Bush like mad in that sector.

Then Kerry has a problem with a 527 groups and asks Bush to condemn them.

Bush says: "Hey, lets get rid of all the 527 ads. I hope my opponent will agree."

In doing that, he forces the press to look to the Swifties when the ads continue (hard to prove colusion with Bush when they won't listen to Bush).

PLUS, as an added bonus, Kerry is now in the position where he has to try and muzzle the 527's or he looks (or is) a hypocrite.



I'm glad you see it that way.

I see an American President that just told a group of combat vetrans to shut the fuck up!



I see this also.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:44:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By 199:

Originally Posted By renotse:
Bush Denounces Ads by Outside Groups...


+3 (or is it +4?)

Bush can now reasonably suggest that Kerry denounce moveon.org ads!!

An even more important benefit is that Kerry will look like a hypocrite when he tries to bring up GWB’s military service (say in the debates).

Kerry plain and simply walked into this one.

This is a brilliant move, IMHO.



So they are even now, and John F'n sKerry is still whining

Kerry denounced the latest moveon.org ad the day that it came out!

Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:51:10 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:58:55 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:59:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
... Kerry denounced the latest moveon.org ad the day that it came out!


I guess I missed that.

So – did they stop??
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:59:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sweep:

Originally Posted By jchewie:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I can't believe that any of you idiots support a President that will tell vetrans, who fought for their country that they cannot excercise their first amendment rights! McCain-Feingold is unconstitutional, and I do not care if SCOTUS says otherwise!

The swifties fought, bled and died for this nation, and now an American President has told them that they should stop expressing their opinion of a cantidate for the presidency! I think that Bush should shut the fuck up this time! He didn't go to Vietnam, he didn't fight for his country, and neither Bush nor Kerry have any right whatsoever to tell American hero's and vetrans to pull an ad!

BTW...I don't care if this is a political ploy that is actually advantageous for Bush, I don't care if he is just mugging for the cameras, I don't care! Bush voiced support for renewing the AWB, now he is voicing support for silencing combat vetrans! When is President Bush going to start voicing support for his base! When does Bush start vocalizing support for the people who put him in office! This may be the final nail in Bush's coffin for me! He may have just driven me to vote 3rd party!




+1



Politics my boy, politics.

...and if you vote 3rd party, who will it be? The Constitution Party? I doubt they will even be on the ballot in your state. I know they aren't here in GA. The Libertarian Party? Their candidate is more or less right along the lines of Kerry when it comes to the War on Terror.

I've come to the realization that right now, in this particular day and time, I'm going to have to hold my nose and vote for Bush. Let's get this thing over with and work on getting that 3rd party a legitimate base by getting them into Congress and state level offices like the Libertarians are doing, then worry about voting 3rd party for POTUS. ...doubt I'll ever see that day though.



How far do I have to go with Bush before enough is enough? He's already:

- Given $15 Billion dollars of OUR money to fight AIDS in sub-saharan Africa

- Given $500 Tax refunds to people who didn't pay taxes to apease the left

- Committed to re-authorizing the 1994 AWB if it makes it to his desk

- Signed into law the McCain-Feingold act to silence groups like the NRA which are responsible for putting him in office!

- Created a $45 Billion dollar prescription drug entitlement program

- Promised that Iraq would pay for the cost of the war, and then forced congress to make the entire $150 Billion dollar expenditure a give away

- Opened the door for more aliens to enter this country, while we are at war and Americans are forced to sacrifice their privacy rights

Now he is telling combat vetrans that they should stop expressing their opinions. How much am I supposed to take? How long do I have to stay loyal to a President that does not represent the values that I hold?
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:04:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By 199:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
... Kerry denounced the latest moveon.org ad the day that it came out!


I guess I missed that.

So – did they stop??



I don't think so.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:05:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
This is good. Now when the attacks continue (as they have already said they will not stop even if Bush asks them too), Kerry will have to deal with the attackers straight up. He won't have Bush to blame it on this time. And if he does that, well, that will show the voters one more time what a whiny crying baby fuck he really is.


Excellent point. Bravo.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:19:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sweep:

I agree, it's good for Bush to separate himself from them. But I think they should push on.



Fear not. They'll have to push on. Otherwise it will look like they're taking orders from Bush Campaign HQ, which is exactly what the Libs are accusing them of now.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:21:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Now he is telling combat vetrans that they should stop expressing their opinions. How much am I supposed to take? How long do I have to stay loyal to a President that does not represent the values that I hold?



And sKerry is a better representative of your values? Would he be a better choice for POTUS? I don't think so....
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:24:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By Scollins:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Now he is telling combat vetrans that they should stop expressing their opinions. How much am I supposed to take? How long do I have to stay loyal to a President that does not represent the values that I hold?



And sKerry is a better representative of your values? Would he be a better choice for POTUS? I don't think so....



It's becoming a jog to Socialism and Totalitarianism with Bush and a sprint to Socialism and Totalitarianism with Kerry.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:28:45 AM EST
smart politics as usual from the President's campaign. all along Bush has been outspoken against 527's
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:33:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By jchewie:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
HAH!

Bush & ROVE got them with the "rope a dope" again.

Problem: Kerry's folks have MILLIONS in 527 dollars and have been outspending Bush like mad in that sector.

Then Kerry has a problem with a 527 groups and asks Bush to condemn them.

Bush says: "Hey, lets get rid of all the 527 ads. I hope my opponent will agree."

In doing that, he forces the press to look to the Swifties when the ads continue (hard to prove colusion with Bush when they won't listen to Bush).

PLUS, as an added bonus, Kerry is now in the position where he has to try and muzzle the 527's or he looks (or is) a hypocrite.



I'm glad you see it that way.

I see an American President that just told a group of combat vetrans to shut the fuck up!



I see this also.



Then you would appear to have a comprehension poblem. He said 527 Orgs were bad for the process. And they are. That was a backhanded way of saying that the M-F bill was bad.

------

Also, wrt: the Thurlow "hypocrisy", he's stated that the award was given to him based on write-ups and AAR's he never saw and his medal was given to him after he separated.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:35:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By bigsapper:

Originally Posted By jchewie:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
HAH!

Bush & ROVE got them with the "rope a dope" again.

Problem: Kerry's folks have MILLIONS in 527 dollars and have been outspending Bush like mad in that sector.

Then Kerry has a problem with a 527 groups and asks Bush to condemn them.

Bush says: "Hey, lets get rid of all the 527 ads. I hope my opponent will agree."

In doing that, he forces the press to look to the Swifties when the ads continue (hard to prove colusion with Bush when they won't listen to Bush).

PLUS, as an added bonus, Kerry is now in the position where he has to try and muzzle the 527's or he looks (or is) a hypocrite.



I'm glad you see it that way.

I see an American President that just told a group of combat vetrans to shut the fuck up!



I see this also.



Then you would appear to have a comprehension poblem. He said 527 Orgs were bad for the process. And they are. That was a backhanded way of saying that the M-F bill was bad.

------

Also, wrt: the Thurlow "hypocrisy", he's stated that the award was given to him based on write-ups and AAR's he never saw and his medal was given to him after he separated.



Yeah, McCain-Feingold was so bad that he had to sign it into law, and then brag about signing it into law when he told the swifties to pull their add!

Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:38:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:42:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sweep:

Agree with every thing you've sighted above. My only deciding factor right now though is, who's better at keeping this country safe from Islamic extremist. As sad as it is, Bush is the only choice right now because I sure as hell don't want Kerry in charge right now...or ever for that matter.



You're right about protecting this country from Islamics, Bush is the only man in this race for the job. I just wonder how much of this country is going to be left when he's through!
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:43:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
... Now he is telling combat vetrans that they should stop expressing their opinions. How much am I supposed to take? How long do I have to stay loyal to a President that does not represent the values that I hold?


These veterans are going to great lengths, and taking enormous abuse, trying to warn this country about John Kerry.

They’re doing this since they want Kerry stopped!!

The best way to support them, in my view at least, is to help them accomplish that goal!!

I really don’t care too much for Bush myself. But I absolutely want to see Kerry stopped, and I almost don’t care who does it.

Frankly, if this contest were solely between Kerry and Hillary, I’d vote for Hillary!!
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:44:54 AM EST

Maybe you guys should read what he actually said instead of just the headline.

... no? ummm ok.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:51:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:56:36 AM EST
Bush is not telling the SBVT's to STFU, he is telling Kerry to STFU. Basically saying to JFK to cut off his own biggest support group if he thinks that 527's are bad. It's a put up or shut up move.
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