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SC, USA
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here's Scripture texts -
Luke 23: 39 - 45
[my comment]
The thief on the cross was NOT baptized, yet Chrsit promised him Heaven. Some say "God altered his own rules" but even that explanation is unScriptural.[/my comment]
[i]Malachi 3: 16 -
For I am the Lord god; I change not.[/i]
Back to baptism and salvation -
[i]Ephesians 2; 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.[/i]
Baptism is a "work" - something the sinner "does. " God specifically exempted ANY works (doing's) from salvation, given man's tendancy to boast about himself saying "Look what I did. " Salvation is all of God, NOT of what man DOES.
In fact Paul addressed man's tendancy to boast, even on the subject of baptism -
[i]I Corinthians 1: 12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.[/i]
So Paul thanked God he didn't baptize, when Baptism is necessary for salvation??? I think not.
God selected Paul to write 20% of the Holy Scriptures. And yet Paul baptized only a handful, when Scripture CLEARLY indicates he led hundreds, possibly thousands, to the Lord.
Paul even indicates he wasn't called by the Lord to baptize. If baptism is necessary for the salvation Jesus Christ offers, yet Christ himself didn't send Paul to baptize????
Please.
It is in this light, we must understand any confusing Scriptures.
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Posted: 6/14/2002 8:32:52 AM EDT
is this a rhetorical question?
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GA, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 8:36:28 AM EDT
Oh lord... here comes the God Squad...
Batten down ye hatches, boys, before you be beaten and bludgeoned by blustering big-mouths bearing Bibles...
the_reject
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 8:38:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thedave1164:
is this a rhetorical question? |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 8:38:16 AM EDT
Did not the current Pope go to the suprising effort of stating that ALL good men are saved... regardless of what they believe?
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Posted: 6/14/2002 8:40:37 AM EDT
In Catholicism, baptism is NOT necessary for salvation.
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Section Two, 1260: "Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved."
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MS, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 8:51:36 AM EDT
I am a southern baptist. I personally don't believe baptism is necesarry for salvation. However, I work with many people of the Church of Christ denomination who will argue all day long that it IS necessary. I always ask "what about the guy on cross next to Jesus"? They say if you were talking to Jesus face to face he could do anything he wanted with you...my response is "what are we doing when we pray"?
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Posted: 6/14/2002 8:57:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman:
Its in response to someone who tried to bring up this issue by hijacking another thread, where I decided to honor that threads author by staying on topic.
And given the proclivities of the would- be hijacker to claim I'm trying to avoid the issue, I decided to set a good example, and address his comments in ANOTHER thread.
Something he admonished me to do in the past. Honor other peoples threads, and start new ones, NOT hijack someone elses, that is.
[:D]
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 8:58:57 AM EDT
Yep.
Cause He said it was. Not me.
He's the author of salvation. I read His book. I keep His commandments.
Easy enough to do.
Everyone saved in the New Testament after Calvary got baptized. It says so.
Read, folks, read. Just do a word search on baptism.
You'll get the drift of what Jesus, Paul and the early church taught about baptism.
Eric The(Ho-Hum)Hun[>]:)]
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Posted: 6/14/2002 8:59:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Yep.
Cause He said it was. Not me.
He's the author of salvation. I read His book. I keep His commandments.
Easy enough to do.
Everyone saved in the New Testament after Calvary got baptized. It says so.
Read, folks, read. Just do a word search on baptism.
You'll get the drift of what Jesus, Paul and the early church taught about baptism.
Eric The(Ho-Hum)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:00:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman:
Its in response to someone who ... hijacking another thread...
... the would- be hijacker to claim I'm trying to avoid the issue...
...NOT hijack someone elses.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:01:57 AM EDT
Here is my post on another thread regarding the penitent thief question:
Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Post from MCTS -
This man was not baptized, but entered the kingdom of heaven. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:09:55 AM EDT
G-man, Mac, Eric, et. al.
Thanks for a thought provoking topic.
G-man, the subject of conflicting scriptural references is one of a couple of reasons that I am not a biblical literalist.
Least your bile and ire rise, I do consider myself a (very very imperfect) christain, but I personally can't believe the whole Adam/Eve/Flood stuff.
Please note, if you want to believe that, more power to you. I just don't.
If Eric has his second shoot in October, y'all may have the opportunity to debate me on it. [;)]
regards,
legrue
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VA, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:15:23 AM EDT
Here is a thought for the people who think you must be saved, baptized, born again or the like please feel free to add you own definition.
The paradox starts in China or take you pick of 3rd world shit holes.
Little Chens 13 years old ,is family is not of any religion.
Chen is a good kid in every respect. Good to his family and others. Would not cheat or steal.
He has never rejected to word of the lord because he has never been exposed to it.
Chen get hit by a bus.
Is chin going to hell or heaven .
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:15:36 AM EDT
Post from legrue -
If Eric has his second shoot in October, y'all may have the opportunity to debate me on it. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:16:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By the_reject:
Batten down ye hatches, boys, before you be beaten and bludgeoned by blustering big-mouths bearing Bibles...
the_reject |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:19:26 AM EDT
Dee dee deet deet da deet da deet...
This just in...
Neo-anabaptists invade AR-15.com...
More news to follow...
Just try being a Lutheran who believes in representationalism as opposed to the 'real presence' doctrine. It will drive you mad...:)
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:28:23 AM EDT
AC 2:36 "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
AC 2:37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"
AC 2:38 Peter replied,[b] "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.[/b] 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call."
-- Seems clear to me that we should be baptized. If you believe in your heart and confess, but die before you can be baptized, you are still saved, i.e. the thief on the cross. The fact that God sees what is in our hearts is the deciding factor, even though we have certain requirements (not works) as a Christian. For example, we cannot continue in a willfully sinful lifestyle.
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:33:01 AM EDT
Actually, the Catholic Church teaches that Baptism [b]IS[/b] necessary for salvation. The very [i]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/i] that you quote says so in paragraph 1256: "The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. (Jn. 3:5) He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. (Mt. 28:19-20) Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibliity of asking for this sacrament."
It also says in #1260 right after the sentence you quoted: "It may be supposed that such persons would have [i]desired Baptism explicitly[/i] if they had known its necessity."
To see what the Catholic Church believes on necessity of Baptism, check out this link to the Catechism: [url=http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/baptism.html#NECESSITY]necessity of baptism[/url]
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:36:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 9:37:39 AM EDT by loonybin]
G-man,
You may not realize it, but you contradict yourself slightly in your post:
So Paul thanked God [b]he didn't baptize[/b], when Baptism is necessary for salvation??? I think not.
It is in this light, we must understand any confusing Scriptures. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:37:29 AM EDT
Amen, [b]Brother ChuckT![/b] That is the response that men filled with the Holy Spirit gave to the children of God!
3,000 were baptized on the First Day in the History of His Church!
Why? Because their Leader, their Savior, their Redeemer, their Lord and their God, told them to say this: [b]Repent and be baptized, every one of you...[/b]
Every one of you! These men of God, full of His Spirit, are speaking directly to you as well!
Eric The(TodayIsTheDayOfSalvation!TomorrowMayBeTheDayOfJudgment!SoHurry!)Hun[>]:)]
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:42:20 AM EDT
For every "repent and be baptized" text y'all give, i can give TWO that simply say "Beleive on the Lord, and ye shall be saved "without any mention of a necessity of baptism.
Scripturally, good works are NOT part of salvation, but the RESULT of salvation - those who are saved do good works.
SO, the "repent and be baptized" texts are referring to TWO events (1) repentance (beleiving which is ALSO necesary for salvation is implied) and (2) the good work of baptism (among many others) which by defintion MUST follow salvation.
The Scripture speaks of in Matt 3 and Acts 26 "works SUITABLE (or appropriate) for one who has repented."
Baptism is simply one of those "works" that follow salvation.
Futher, a contextual study of early church history will show that the PURPOSE of baptism was to identify yourself that you were one of the Christians. That you had been saved, and you wanted the world to know it.
But again, I refer you to my thread opener. The apostle Paul speaks NOTHING of ba[tism as being necessary for salvation, and in fact CHOSE not to baptize people.
Seems pretty clear to me - NO baptism necessary for salvation, but baptism IS necessary as an act of obedience in those who ARE ALREADY saved.
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:44:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Amen, [b]Brother ChuckT![/b] That is the response that men filled with the Holy Spirit gave to the children of God!
3,000 were baptized on the First Day in the History of His Church!
Why? Because their Leader, their Savior, their Redeemer, their Lord and their God, told them to say this: [b]Repent and be baptized, every one of you...[/b]
Every one of you! These men of God, full of His Spirit, are speaking directly to you as well!
Eric The(TodayIsTheDayOfSalvation!TomorrowMayBeTheDayOfJudgment!SoHurry!)Hun[>]:)] |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:47:50 AM EDT
[b]garandman[/b], you simply do not have a clue about this subject at all.
Is prayer a work?
Is singing a hymn a work?
Is obeying God a work?
Is communion a work?
Don't let your reading of Paul's epsitles set aside the direct commandment of God!
It will not work, whether it comes from Paul, or an angel from Heaven, the Lord's will is what we need to obey.
Eric The(GottaRunToCourtNow,ButI'llBeBack)Hun[>]:)]
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:48:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 9:50:38 AM EDT by loonybin]
Originally Posted By ChuckT:
If you believe in your heart and confess, but die before you can be baptized, you are still saved, i.e. the thief on the cross. The fact that God sees what is in our hearts is the deciding factor, even though we have certain requirements (not works) as a Christian. For example, we cannot continue in a willfully sinful lifestyle.
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:54:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 9:55:05 AM EDT by loonybin]
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Sorry, still don't see scripture saying "if you DON'T get baptized there is no possibility of salvation". |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:54:41 AM EDT
Note to [b]The_Macallan[/b] -
Jesus' last message to His church:
[red][b]And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. [u]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved[/u]; but he that believeth not shall be damned.[/b][/red] Mark 16:15,16
'No need for baptism', sez [b]garandman.[/b]
[red][b]'He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved'[/b][/red], sez He!
Eric The(ReallyGottaGo!)Hun[>]:)]
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:55:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
[b]garandman[/b], you simply do not have a clue about this subject at all.
[>]:)] |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:58:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By loonybin:
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Sorry, still don't see scripture saying "if you DON'T get baptized there is no possibility of salvation". |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 9:59:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Note to [b]The_Macallan[/b] -
Jesus' last message to His church:
[red][b]And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. [u]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved[/u]; but he that believeth not shall be damned.[/b][/red] Mark 16:15,16
'No need for baptism', sez [b]garandman.[/b]
[red][b]'He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved'[/b][/red], sez He!
Eric The(ReallyGottaGo!)Hun[>]:)] |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 10:02:46 AM EDT
It's His verse, [b]garandman[/b], not mine.
What better authority can you have than Jesus' own words...to His church....to Nicodemus...to Paul on the Road to Damascus...?
Nothing you've cited sets aside the direct and clear Commandment of God, even Paul would say that!
Eric The(NotSoFoolish)Hun[>]:)]
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IN, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 10:04:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 10:06:16 AM EDT by EricE]
Hmmm... now would I have to come in here, and advocate the worship of [devil][size=5]SATAN[/size=5][devil] just for G-Man and ETH to join forces?
Nah... that would just make me look bad [:D]
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Posted: 6/14/2002 10:05:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By loonybin:
The fact that God sees what is in our hearts is the deciding factor, even though we have certain requirements (not works) as a Christian. For example, we cannot continue in a willfully sinful lifestyle.
Eph 2:10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 10:06:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 10:40:01 AM EDT by garandman]
OK, take this verse:
[b]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:15,16[/b]
Why is beleiving and baptism necessary for salvation, but ONLY "not beleiving" necessary for damnation???
You CANNOT say baptism is critical in one side of a mutually exclusive proposition, but NOT critical in the other side of THE SAME mutually exclusive proposition.
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Posted: 6/14/2002 10:08:29 AM EDT
At least you arent all wet on baptism
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 10:08:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 10:16:49 AM EDT by garandman]
Originally Posted By ChuckT:
You are correct:
Eph 2:10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 10:10:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 9divdoc:
At least you arent all wet on baptism |
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Posted: 6/14/2002 10:16:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricE:
Hmmm... now would I have to come in here, and advocate the worship of [devil][size=5]SATAN[/size=5][devil] just for G-Man and ETH to join forces?
Nah... that would just make me look bad [:D]
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WA, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 10:43:37 AM EDT
so is there any way to reverse baptism?
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Posted: 6/14/2002 10:56:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By elvez:
so is there any way to reverse baptism? |
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Posted: 6/14/2002 10:58:51 AM EDT
It is sad indeed that G-man expends so much effort to deny what Christ ASKS of us. If you dont want to do as he ASKS, then please dont.
I,thru the scripture, already destroyed your theory on amniotic fluid some time ago G, you had no reply to it. Yet you still want to dig it up again. You greatly sadden me.
In a while I will be back and will post the scriptures again for baptism saving us. I have to go pick up a counter top for my sister, as I have the only p/u truck available.
G-man, you seek to plow the sea... The number of baptism references far outweigh the faith alone refs. It is also odd to me that a faith that calls itself Baptist.... denies the need for Baptism for salvation. Que pasa?
Dram
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Posted: 6/14/2002 11:09:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 11:19:26 AM EDT by ilikelegs]
Wow ! This is my first time to disagree with the Hun. Sorry, forgive me ETH.
Here's my take on it.
I beleive all that is nesseccary is to accept the
gift of salvation is to accept Christ as your savior.
Here's the Scriptures why:
[b]Jesus' Word[/b]
John 11:25: I am the resurrection, and the life. Verse 26: Whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.
Luke 19:10: The Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
To the thief on the cross, the Saviour said, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise (Luke 23:43). Only God could make such a promise.
In John 5:40, Christ said, Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 6:37: Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 8:12: I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
John 8:24: If ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 10:28: I give unto them eternal life.
John 12:32,33: If I be lifted up from the earth [I], will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.
Jesus also said in Matthew 12:30, He that is not with me is against me. One cannot say, "Oh, I admire Christ, but I believe there are other ways." One is either for Christ or against Him. One either accepts what Christ stated about himself through 35 pronouns and references or rejects it.
Romans 5:1: We have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:8: Christ died for us.
Romans 5:9: We shall be saved from wrath through him.
Romans 6:23: The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 8:1: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. Think of it -- no judgment or hell if one is in Christ Jesus!
Romans 10:13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Romans 13:14: Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ.
First Corinthians 1:2: [We are] sanctified in Christ Jesus.
First Corinthians 3:11: For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. He is the foundation on which the superstructure, the Church, has been built. Praise God, He is the rock or foundation, not Peter or any other man.
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 11:09:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 11:13:50 AM EDT by garandman]
Originally Posted By Dramborleg:
It is sad indeed that G-man expends so much effort to deny what Christ ASKS of us. If you dont want to do as he ASKS, then please dont. I,thru the scripture, already destroyed your theory on amniotic fluid some time ago G, you had no reply to it. Yet you still want to dig it up again. You greatly sadden me. In a while I will be back and will post the scriptures again for baptism saving us. I have to go pick up a counter top for my sister, as I have the only p/u truck available. G-man, you seek to plow the sea... The number of baptism references far outweigh the faith alone refs. It is also odd to me that a faith that calls itself Baptist.... denies the need for Baptism for salvation. Que pasa?
Dram |
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Posted: 6/14/2002 11:09:36 AM EDT
First Corinthians 6:11: Ye are washed...in the name of the Lord Jesus. Not Baptised...
Second Corinthians 5:17: Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature.
Galatians 1:4: [Christ] gave himself for our sins.
Galatians 3:26: For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 5:1: Christ hath made us free.
Ephesians 1:3: Our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.
Colossians 1:20: [He] made peace through the blood of his cross.
Colossians 1:27: Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Hebrews 2:9: That [Christ] by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Hebrews 5:9: He became the author of eternal salvation.
Second Peter 2:20: They have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
First John 4:9: God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
First John 4:10: [He] sent his Son to be the propitiation of our sins.
First John 5:11,12: And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
Jude 21: Looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Revelation 7:14 pictures the Tribulation Hour. Here we find that the same plan of salvation exists after the Church is removed from this earth. These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Christ is the Lamb of God (see John 1:29). [b]After the Rapture, People can still be saved........[/b]
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 11:11:46 AM EDT
Good Scriptures, legs!!!
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Posted: 6/14/2002 11:12:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 11:18:51 AM EDT by ilikelegs]
I too have already been Baptized. But I feel it is an
outward expression to show your faith. Not a pre requisite.
If it was a pre requisite then I think it would have
been mention equally each time with in all the scripturs
I posted. And there are sooo many more that I did not include...
I also think once saved always saved.
No one can loose their salvation after their
name is written in the Lambs book of life.
But that's the topic of a future thread...
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 11:56:03 AM EDT
So, my brothers, are we now hearing that [b]baptism[/b] is simply a 'work' that is unnecessary?
Then is [b]belief[/b] also a 'work' that is unnecessary?
Then is [b]repentance[/b] also a 'work' that is unnecessary?
The is [b]confession[/b] also a 'work' that is unnecessary?
If so, then you have surely gutted the entire thrust of how a soul comes to Jesus!
So, every time that Jesus mentioned salvation in the Gospels, He should always have mentioned Hearing, Believing, Repenting, Confessing, and being Baptized every single time He said it?
Look at the Scriptures that y'all have quoted and see if 'repentance' is mentioned each time Jesus, Paul, or someone spoke of salvation.
Does anyone here contend that Jesus does not require REPENTANCE in order to be saved?
Does anyone here contend that Jesus does not require CONFESSION in order to be saved?
Does anyone here contend that Jesus does not require BELIEF in order to be saved?
Then why do you contend that Jesus does not require BAPTISM in order to be saved?
It's certainly a strange Bible and a strange belief system that some here have that teaches [b]'the doctrines of man as a replacement for the commandments of God![/b]
[red][b]But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
[/b][/red] Matthew 15:9
Let [b]Jesus[/b] tell you how to be saved, and stop listening to me, garandman, or any other human being. It's in His Book! In His own words!
Eric the(ToWhomShouldWeGo,Master,ForThouHastTheWordsOfLife)Hun[>]:)]
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 12:00:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
So, my brothers, are we now hearing that [b]baptism[/b] is simply a 'work' that is unnecessary?
Then is [b]belief[/b] also a 'work' that is unnecessary?
Then is [b]repentance[/b] also a 'work' that is unnecessary?
The is [b]confession[/b] also a 'work' that is unnecessary?
)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/14/2002 12:10:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By ChuckT:
You are correct:
Eph 2:10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2002 12:29:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By loonybin:
No, baptism is NOT onne of those "good works." Paul was referring to the works of the Mosaic Law, specifically circumcision (see v.11), but by association, all the Mosaic Law. This is what the Pharisees did-- saw their works of the Mosaic law as sufficient, and thus boasted about it. Baptism is NOT one of our "good works." It is a WORK OF GOD, His saving grace poured out on us as the water is poured out on us (or we're immersed in, or sprinkled. We won't get into that here). That is why Peter says in 1Peter 3:20-21 that [b]"Baptism, which corresponds to this[/b] [Noah & family being saved through water], [b]now saves you[/b], not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ." Lastly, why is it that your interpretation of Scripture on the necessity of Baptism is so different from the early Christian leaders who were only 100-200 years removed from the Apostles? I would think they would know, since they were much closer to the Apostles than we are. |
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Posted: 6/14/2002 12:46:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman:
OK, take this verse:
[b]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:15,16[/b]
Why is beleiving and baptism necessary for salvation, but ONLY "not beleiving" necessary for damnation???
You CANNOT say baptism is critical in one side of a mutually exclusive proposition, but NOT critical in the other side of THE SAME mutually exclusive proposition.
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