I was reading some of the writings of Saint Anselm of Canterbury the other day, and came across some very hard to argue with logic about the existence of God.
For anyone who believes there is no God, they have to have some idea of the concept of God in order to state that they believe there is no God. The only people who can say there is no God are people who have know idea of God. Once they learn of God, even if they state there is no God, He still exists in their mind because they know of Him.
It’s like a unicorn. We all know there are no unicorns running around (with rainbows on their minds and peace in their hearts), but everyone knows what a unicorn is. So they exist, if only in our minds.
You know, I believe in God, but you gotta admit that logic is kind of weak.
Bad news is so depressing.
Let's have the good news....
There is a God, and He sent His Son to die for our sins.
<-----loves an opportunity to pass on good news.
If there was a God you would have that At-At thingy for Christmas.
Yes, it's true.
As YOU say... in our imaginations.
As an idea.
Not in my imagination. I believe. This only pertains to those who don't.
He is still in your mind. And there is nothing you can do to change that.
I have two now, so take that!
Believe in God.. He exists... even if it's only in your imagination..
What would Admiral Akbar say about all this?
I bet that sounds really interesting when you're high.
The miracles I have seen prove to me that a compassionate and merciful God exists
p.s. Wedge your sig line is hilarious
God is a unicorn?
I dreamed about Cindy Crawford last night. I guess that was real too as it was in my mind.
Hey guys! I just boinked Cindy Crawford, I'll post pics shortly...
That is the best picture I have ever seen.
in the same way unicorns exist
Just like me.
He just has a different title in YOUR imagination, than he does in mine.
He's not in your garage, is he?
So's santa, the Hulk, Superman, Hitler, Wednesday, Math, the letter "v", a recipe for egg salad, and the city of Atlantis.
[montypython]My brain 'urts![/montypython]
WAY too early in the day for something so existential.
Sweeet!!! Using that logic I have a bunker full of gold and machineguns out back!! I'm going to quit my job now and go shooting!!
Put down that logic and back slowly away. Can't you see this is a thread about religion and faith?
Saint Anselm takes that subject up too, but it is way to deep for me to grasp.
Bad news for you Non believers out there… There is a Santa
I was reading some of the writings of Saint Vinnie of Bay Ridge the other day, and came across some very hard to argue with logic about the existence of Santa.
For anyone who believes there is no Santa, they have to have some idea of the concept of Santa in order to state that they believe there is no Santa. The only people who can say there is no Santa are people who have no idea of Santa. Once they learn of Santa, even if they state there is no Santa, He still exists in their mind because they know of Him.
It’s like a Jesus. We all know there are no Jesus' running around (with rainbows on their minds and peace in their hearts), but everyone knows what a Jesus is. So they exist, if only in our minds.
Have you ever heard of a Hidopotumer?
A Hidopotumer is a small furrie baseball with legs.
They run around in small groups and are nocturnal.
The Hidopotume is a mammal.
No one has ever actualy seen a Hidopotume
But now that you read this, we all know they exist.
And you cant argue with me because even though I cant prove to you
that the Hidopotume is real, I dont have to beause
I have described it to you and you have imagined it and it lives in your mind.
One day in Electromagnetic Field Theory class, our teacher started writing formulas. She took up the whole blackboard with calulations, most of which we new, some we did not. Some Physics, some Electrical Engineering. Took about 20 minutes, then she came out with a mathmatical formula. Pointed to it and said, and here is proof that we all have a soul and when we die we do NOT just turn into nothingness when we die.
She was an Indian(the country) woman, but she was a Christian, as were most of us in class and we were dumbfounded. It was cool.
Circular argument, automatically fallacious.
Spiral actually. Haven't you ever seen a unicorn horn?
If God doesn't exist, why do some argue SO vehemently against Him?
They don't argue that vehemently against Vishnu. Or other imaginary creatures.
"Methinks thou doest protest too loudly..."
Anselm's work regarding the "Existence of God" was later supported and used by Descartes, Hegel and Mohler.
[NIN/Resnor]GOD is Dead[/NIN/Resnor]
[Heinlein]Thou art GOD[/Heinlein]
[FREE]I am GOD, you are GOD, we are all GOD.[/FREE]
If believing something makes it true then explain the jackets that force you to hug yourself
and big padded rooms.
As children my little brother believed he could fly but when he jumped he fell like a stone.
When we die it is over, nothing, nada, no more, just the vast emptiness of our own fading energies. As Einstein says energy never actually seaces to exist it just exists in smaller and
smaller amounts infinitly.
I am comfortable with that you should be too. Untill the 2nd coming anyway, not holding my breadth.
I have this theory that many believe, but refuse to admit it.
Ditto. I don't believe in a weak, candy-assed, subjective god that exists only in the mind of athiests and pagans. I believe in the one true God who so loved the world that he sent his only Son to die for our sins. You cannot come to know Him with your mind alone; your heart must be open as well.
To ADMIT the existence of God IMMEDIATELY requires that person reconcile His life to God's demands. Thevery concept of Creation requires this as well
This explains why they argue so vehemently against Him. And Creationism.
I return your +1.
This argument only applies to those who do not believe.
No shit. What sort of nonsense "logic" is that? Amazing to see the desperate reaches people will make to rationalize illogical, unprovable, unfounded belief in a god(s).
With every thread devoted to this subject, with all the people and their "supporting" arguements of the existance of a "god", the more irrational, emotional & exclusively faith-based their position becomes.
The arguement here, by the way, can be equally used to support the "existance" of the following as well:
Azeban - trickster
Bmola - bird spirit
Gluskap - kind protector of humanity
Malsumis - cruel, evil god
Tabaldak - the creator
Deities in the Abrahamic religions
Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe in the same God, but Muslims, and to some degree Jews (see below), visualize God in strictly monotheistic terms, whereas most Christians believe that God exists as a Trinity.
Yahweh is the Biblical name for God used by ancient Jews. Adonai, Eloheynu and Hashem are some of the names of God used in modern day Judaism. The Hebrew word "elohim" is also used to refer to God in the Torah (and the Christian Old Testament), and this refers to a plural nature of God. However, Jews hold to a slightly more monotheistic view of God than Christians. They reject Jesus Christ as a false messiah, and do not assign any deity to him. However, the English word "God" (spelled "G-d" in deference to the taboo against pronouncing the Tetragrammaton) is commonly accepted among Jews to denote God (or G-d), as well.
Historically, Christianity has professed belief in one deity, three divine persons (the Trinity), that make up one deity or Godhead, known as "God". (See Athanasian Creed.) Thus, most Christians are trinitarian monotheists, although there have been dissenters; see the articles Arianism, Unitarianism (History), Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and Jehovah's Witnesses for examples. Most of these unitarian groups believe or believed that only God the Father is a deity; Latter-day Saints believe that the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ) and the Holy Spirit are three distinct deities.
Allah is the most traditional Muslim name for God. Islamic tradition also speaks of 99 Names of God.
Two smaller faiths that don't neatly fit into any of the categories of Abrahamic religions. Rastafarianism worships Jah and the Baha'i Faith also worships the same God as Jews, Christians and Muslims.
Australian Aboriginal mythology
Cihuacoatl - a goddess whose roaring signalled War
Centeotl - the Corn god
Chalchiuhtlicue - the goddess of running Water
Chantico - the goddess of Hearth Fires and Volcanoes
Chicomecoatl - the goddess of Corn and Fertility
Ehecatl - the god of the Wind
Huitzilopochtli - a god of War and the Sun
Huixtocihuatl - the goddess of Salt
Itzpapalotl - a goddess of Agriculture
Ixtlilton - the god of Healing, Feasting, and Games
Macuilxochitl - the god of Music and Dance
Mayahuel - a goddess of Maguey
Metztli - the Moon god
Mictlantecihuatl - the lady and goddess of Mictlan, the underworld
Mictlantecuhtli - the lord and god of Mictlan and the dead.
Ometecuhtli - the god of Duality
Patecatl - the god of Medicine
Paynal - the messenger to Huitzilopochtli
Quetzalcoatl - the feathered serpent
Teoyaomqui - the god of dead warriors
Tlaloc - the great Rain and Fertility god
Tlazolteotl - the goddess of Licentiousness
Tonacatecuhtli - the creator and provider of Food
Tonatiuh - Tonatiuh was a Sun god, the eagle, and heavenly warrior
Xilonen - the goddess of young Maize
Xipe Totec - the god of Seedtime
Xochipilli - the god of Feasting and young Maize
Yacatecuhtli - the god of Merchant Adventurers
a more complete list can be found here.
Manannan mac Lir
Three Pure Ones
Yi the Archer
Egyptian deities are often portrayed as having animal heads in art; as an example, Anubis is often portrayed in statuary as having the body of a human, but the head of a canine. Many gods were portrayed with different animal heads, depending upon the situation. The Egyptians did NOT actually believe that their gods had animal heads; rather, they portrayed them that way as artistic symbolism. This may have been for the benefit of the illiterate.
Anubis, God of Embalming, Friend of the Dead
The Aten, the embodiment of the Sun's rays
Atum, a creator deity
Bast, Goddess of Cats
Bes, God-Demon of Protection, Childbirth and Entertainment
Geb, God of the Earth
Hapi God of the Nile and Fertility
Hathor, Goddess of Love and Music
Heget Goddess of Childbirth
Horus the falcon-headed god
Imhotep God of wisdom, medicine and magic
Isis, Goddess of Magic, sister of Nephthys
Khepry, the scarab beetle, the embodiment of the dawn
Khnum, a creator deity
Ma'at, Goddess of Truth, Balance and Order
Mont, god of war
Naunet, the primal waters
Neith, the great mother goddess
Nephthys, mother of Anubis
Nut, goddess of heaven and the sky
Ptah, a creator deity
Ra, the sun, possible father of Anubis
Sekhmnet, goddess of war and battles
Sobek, Crocodile God
Set, God of Storms, possible father of Anubis
Tefnut, goddess of order, justice, time, Heaven and Hell and weather
Thoth, god of the moon, drawing, writing, geometry, wisdom, medicine, music, astronomy, and magic
See http://touregypt.net/godsofegypt/ for the Egyptian Ministry of Tourism's extensive information on Egyptian Deities.
Old Finnish deities
There are very few written documents about old Finnish religions; also the names of deities and practices of worship changed from place to place. The following is a summary of the most important and most widely worshipped deities.
Ukko, god of heaven and thunder
Rauni, Ukko's wife, goddess of fertility
Tapio, god of forest and wild animals
Mielikki, Tapio's wife
Pekko (or Peko), god or goddess (the actual gender is obscure) of fields and acriculture
Ahti, (or Ahto) god of streams, lakes and sea
Otso, son of a god, king of the forest whose carnal form is the bear
Tuoni, goddess of the underworld
Perkele, a god of the Lithuanians, drafted to do duty as "the devil"
Jumala, a physical idol, later the name of the christian god
Ancient Greek mythology
See also Demigods, the Dryads, the Fates, the Erinyes, the Graces, the Horae, the Muses, the Nymphs, the Pleiades, the Titans
See also kachina
Aji-Suki-Taka-Hiko-Ne - god of thunder
Amaterasu - sun goddess
Amatsu Mikaboshi - god of evil
Ame-no-Uzume - fertility goddess
Benzaiten - goddess of money, eloquent persuasion, and knowledge
Bishamon - god of happiness and war
Chimata-no-Kami - god of crossroads, highways and footpaths
Hiruko - solar god
Ho-Masubi - god of fire
Inari - god of rice
Izanami - creator goddess
Izanagi - creator god
Kagu-tsuchi - god of fire
Kawa-no-Kami - god of rivers
Kura-Okami - god of rain
Nai-No-Kami - god of earthquakes
O-Kuni-Nushi - god of sorcery and medicine
O-Wata-Tsu-Mi - god of the sea
Sengen-Sama - goddess of the Mt. Fujiyama
Seven Gods of Fortune
Shina-Tsu-Hiko - god of wind
Shina-To-Be - goddess of wind
Susa-no-Wo - god of storms and thunder, snakes and farming.
Taka-Okami - god of rain
Take-Mikazuchi - god of thunder
Tsuku-Yomi - god of the moon
Uke-Mochi - goddess of food
Wakahiru-Me - goddess of the dawn sun
see also Kami
Modern Western mythology ("Kitchen Gods")
In addition to the gods listed above, there are several minor mythological beings spoken of in current western culture and may be taken more or less seriously. These are commonly called Kitchen Gods.
The Tooth Fairy - a childish sprite
The Parking Fairy - responsible for finding parking spaces
The Code Fairy - Eats semicolons from source code, causing working computer software to stop working
The Traffic Light Fairy - responsible for changing lights to green
Gaia - Mother nature
Hotei - A Laughing Buddha
Santa Claus - Originally Nicholas of Myra, but later turned into Father Christmas.
Ahaw Kin - Sun God
Chac - Rain God
Yum Kaax - Corn God
Kukulcan - Feathered Serpent God
Xbalanque - God of the Jaguar
Hunah Ku - Creator God
Xi Balba - God of the Death
Ix Chel - Moon Goddess
Itzamna - Reptile Creator God
Bolon tza cab - Ruling God of All
Balac - War God
Bacabs - Gods of the 4 directions
Balam - Protector God
Anshar - father of heaven
Anu - the god of the highest heaven
Apsu - the ruler of gods and underworld oceans
Ashur - national god of the Assyrians
Damkina - Earth mother goddess
Ea - god of wisdom
Enlil - god of weather and storms
Enurta - god of war
Hadad - weather god
Ishtar - goddess of love
Kingu - husband of Tiamat
Kishar - father of earth
Marduk - national god of the Babylonians
Mummu - god of mists
Nabu - god of the scribal arts
Nintu - mother of all gods
Shamash - god of the sun and of justice
Sin - moon god
Tiamat - dragon goddess
see also Menehune
Old Prussian / Baltic deities
Sardinian deities, mainly referred to in the age of Nuragici people, are partly derived from Phoenician ones.
Janas Goddesses of death
Maymon God of Hades
Panas Goddesses of reproduction (women dead in childbirth)
Thanit Goddess of Earth and fertility
See also Annuna
El, the father God and head
Baal, the God of rain
Asherah, the Mother and Goddess of the Grove
Yam, the God of the sea
Mot, the God of death
Note: Ugarit had a profound influence on Canaanite religion and some influence on the Abrahamic religions, as well.
Mbaba Mwana Waresa
Take your pick & apply the same reasoning to the "god" of your choice!
Your attitude towards other people beliefs is unique to say the least.
If someone is an I believe only when i'm in dire straights type of person I think they deserve damnation more than athiests.
They are pure users, only believe what and when it is convenient, and it will reflect in their dailey lives.
I respect people like you for your whole hearted faith.
If your gonna believe then their is no half way, not the way religion works.
The #1 reason I love AR15.com so much is because it's only place in the world where you click on a thread pertaining to the existence of God and instead get presented with an animated picture of two AT-AT's having intercourse. Look out for THAT money shot.
I love you guys. Praise Jesus...or whatever.
because those who worship Vishnu don't post annoying topics like this one perhaps?
I'm fine with us both believing what we want to believe, but when someone posts something as stupid as the logic above, something has to be said.
No offense, but that's no argument at all.
I'd argue vehemently against anyone claiming that the earth is flat, or anyone claiming that a cruise missible (not a 767) hit the Pentagon. That doesn't meant that there's something to it that I'm desperately trying to deny - it just means that it's so stupid, that I want to argue forcefully against it to keep others from believing something that is obviously wrong.
(I'm NOT saying a belief in God is stupid or obviously wrong - but the existence of God is by defintion pretty much non-provable, and has to exist by faith and implication, not by evidence)
You are different than most.
You are right - its all based on faith. And the same crowd that argues "tolerance" for their ideas ARGUES BITTERLY against others having faith. They attack faith in god.
They DON'T argue as bitterly against anything OTHER THAN the notion of God. "Flat earth" doesn't require any life modifying behavior.
And so they rail against him.
Why is it exactally that some people have to go around trying to prove that god exists?
I don't go around telling people "There's no god! And here's my circular argument to prove it!"
I dont argue with people about weather or not God exists as a rule.
Your religion is your business not mine and vice versa,
But I will say this, I think what you may not be understanding
Is that some people get to a place in life that goes far beyond
Questioning their faith,
A point where they just stop believing that there is a God.
Once a person reaches that point there is no going back.
Just like when as a child you learn that Santa does not exists.
( I am not comparing God to Santa )
And no matter how hard you try you just cant convince
yourself that he does exists once you Know he doesn’t. (Santa)
That is where I think you are getting so much resistance from people.
Telling some people that there is a God is to them,
Like me telling you that the Tooth fairy is real and you are going to Hell if you
just wont accept that and put your teeth under your pillow at night.
You’re just NOT going to change their minds.
Just try'n to help.
Anyway, concerning the thread topic....
I find the logic weak and unconvincing. It's not going to convert anyone.
To me, the existence of God is self-evident. Look around. Look up. It didn't all "just happen".
That said, if you don't believe, so be it. I'm not going to try and convince you. Enjoy.
Yer not wrong.
God alone can convince such a person of His existence.
So I don't try to argue strongly to change their minds. I simply state my opinion, give my reasons, and leave it at that.
I find everyone's lack of faith in Wedge's logic disturbing.