User Panel
Posted: 10/29/2004 5:42:27 AM EDT
I was reading some of the writings of Saint Anselm of Canterbury the other day, and came across some very hard to argue with logic about the existence of God.
For anyone who believes there is no God, they have to have some idea of the concept of God in order to state that they believe there is no God. The only people who can say there is no God are people who have know idea of God. Once they learn of God, even if they state there is no God, He still exists in their mind because they know of Him. It’s like a unicorn. We all know there are no unicorns running around (with rainbows on their minds and peace in their hearts), but everyone knows what a unicorn is. So they exist, if only in our minds. |
|
You know, I believe in God, but you gotta admit that logic is kind of weak.
|
|
Bad news is so depressing.
Let's have the good news.... There is a God, and He sent His Son to die for our sins. <-----loves an opportunity to pass on good news. |
|
If there was a God you would have that At-At thingy for Christmas.
|
|
Yes, it's true. God exists. As YOU say... in our imaginations. As an idea. |
|
|
Not in my imagination. I believe. This only pertains to those who don't. He is still in your mind. And there is nothing you can do to change that. |
|
|
I have two now, so take that! |
|
|
Great logic..
Believe in God.. He exists... even if it's only in your imagination.. |
|
The miracles I have seen prove to me that a compassionate and merciful God exists
p.s. Wedge your sig line is hilarious |
|
I dreamed about Cindy Crawford last night. I guess that was real too as it was in my mind. Hey guys! I just boinked Cindy Crawford, I'll post pics shortly... |
|
|
+1 |
|
|
|
That is the best picture I have ever seen. |
|||
|
+1 in the same way unicorns exist |
||
|
Just like me. He just has a different title in YOUR imagination, than he does in mine. He's not in your garage, is he?
So's santa, the Hulk, Superman, Hitler, Wednesday, Math, the letter "v", a recipe for egg salad, and the city of Atlantis. |
|||
|
[montypython]My brain 'urts![/montypython] WAY too early in the day for something so existential. |
|
|
What created God?
If there was nothing to create God then this would be the only know effect without a cause. |
|
Sweeet!!! Using that logic I have a bunker full of gold and machineguns out back!! I'm going to quit my job now and go shooting!!
|
|
Put down that logic and back slowly away. Can't you see this is a thread about religion and faith? |
|
|
Saint Anselm takes that subject up too, but it is way to deep for me to grasp. |
|
|
|
||
|
Bad news for you Non believers out there… There is a Santa
I was reading some of the writings of Saint Vinnie of Bay Ridge the other day, and came across some very hard to argue with logic about the existence of Santa. For anyone who believes there is no Santa, they have to have some idea of the concept of Santa in order to state that they believe there is no Santa. The only people who can say there is no Santa are people who have no idea of Santa. Once they learn of Santa, even if they state there is no Santa, He still exists in their mind because they know of Him. It’s like a Jesus. We all know there are no Jesus' running around (with rainbows on their minds and peace in their hearts), but everyone knows what a Jesus is. So they exist, if only in our minds. |
|
Have you ever heard of a Hidopotumer?
A Hidopotumer is a small furrie baseball with legs. They run around in small groups and are nocturnal. The Hidopotume is a mammal. No one has ever actualy seen a Hidopotume But now that you read this, we all know they exist. And you cant argue with me because even though I cant prove to you that the Hidopotume is real, I dont have to beause I have described it to you and you have imagined it and it lives in your mind. |
|
One day in Electromagnetic Field Theory class, our teacher started writing formulas. She took up the whole blackboard with calulations, most of which we new, some we did not. Some Physics, some Electrical Engineering. Took about 20 minutes, then she came out with a mathmatical formula. Pointed to it and said, and here is proof that we all have a soul and when we die we do NOT just turn into nothingness when we die.
She was an Indian(the country) woman, but she was a Christian, as were most of us in class and we were dumbfounded. It was cool. |
|
Circular argument, automatically fallacious. |
|
|
Spiral actually. Haven't you ever seen a unicorn horn? |
||
|
|
|
|
If God doesn't exist, why do some argue SO vehemently against Him?
They don't argue that vehemently against Vishnu. Or other imaginary creatures. "Methinks thou doest protest too loudly..." |
|
Anselm's work regarding the "Existence of God" was later supported and used by Descartes, Hegel and Mohler. |
|
[NIN/Resnor]GOD is Dead[/NIN/Resnor]
[Heinlein]Thou art GOD[/Heinlein] [FREE]I am GOD, you are GOD, we are all GOD.[/FREE] If believing something makes it true then explain the jackets that force you to hug yourself and big padded rooms. As children my little brother believed he could fly but when he jumped he fell like a stone. When we die it is over, nothing, nada, no more, just the vast emptiness of our own fading energies. As Einstein says energy never actually seaces to exist it just exists in smaller and smaller amounts infinitly. I am comfortable with that you should be too. Untill the 2nd coming anyway, not holding my breadth. |
|
I have this theory that many believe, but refuse to admit it. |
|
|
Ditto. I don't believe in a weak, candy-assed, subjective god that exists only in the mind of athiests and pagans. I believe in the one true God who so loved the world that he sent his only Son to die for our sins. You cannot come to know Him with your mind alone; your heart must be open as well. |
|
|
+1 To ADMIT the existence of God IMMEDIATELY requires that person reconcile His life to God's demands. Thevery concept of Creation requires this as well This explains why they argue so vehemently against Him. And Creationism. |
|
|
I return your +1. |
||
|
This argument only applies to those who do not believe. |
||
|
No shit. What sort of nonsense "logic" is that? Amazing to see the desperate reaches people will make to rationalize illogical, unprovable, unfounded belief in a god(s). With every thread devoted to this subject, with all the people and their "supporting" arguements of the existance of a "god", the more irrational, emotional & exclusively faith-based their position becomes. The arguement here, by the way, can be equally used to support the "existance" of the following as well: Abenaki Azeban - trickster Bmola - bird spirit Gluskap - kind protector of humanity Malsumis - cruel, evil god Tabaldak - the creator Deities in the Abrahamic religions Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe in the same God, but Muslims, and to some degree Jews (see below), visualize God in strictly monotheistic terms, whereas most Christians believe that God exists as a Trinity. Judaism Yahweh is the Biblical name for God used by ancient Jews. Adonai, Eloheynu and Hashem are some of the names of God used in modern day Judaism. The Hebrew word "elohim" is also used to refer to God in the Torah (and the Christian Old Testament), and this refers to a plural nature of God. However, Jews hold to a slightly more monotheistic view of God than Christians. They reject Jesus Christ as a false messiah, and do not assign any deity to him. However, the English word "God" (spelled "G-d" in deference to the taboo against pronouncing the Tetragrammaton) is commonly accepted among Jews to denote God (or G-d), as well. Christianity Historically, Christianity has professed belief in one deity, three divine persons (the Trinity), that make up one deity or Godhead, known as "God". (See Athanasian Creed.) Thus, most Christians are trinitarian monotheists, although there have been dissenters; see the articles Arianism, Unitarianism (History), Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and Jehovah's Witnesses for examples. Most of these unitarian groups believe or believed that only God the Father is a deity; Latter-day Saints believe that the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ) and the Holy Spirit are three distinct deities. Islam Allah is the most traditional Muslim name for God. Islamic tradition also speaks of 99 Names of God. Other Two smaller faiths that don't neatly fit into any of the categories of Abrahamic religions. Rastafarianism worships Jah and the Baha'i Faith also worships the same God as Jews, Christians and Muslims. Akamba mythology Asa Akan mythology Brekyirihunuade Kwaku Ananse Ashanti mythology Anansi Asase Ya Bia Nyame Australian Aboriginal mythology Altjira Baiame Bamapana Banaitja Bobbi-bobbi Bunjil Daramulum Dilga Djanggawul Eingana Galeru Gnowee Kidili Kunapipi Julunggul Mangar-kunjer-kunja Numakulla Pundjel Ulanji Walo Wawalag Wuriupranili Yurlungur Aztec mythology Cihuacoatl - a goddess whose roaring signalled War Centeotl - the Corn god Chalchiuhtlicue - the goddess of running Water Chantico - the goddess of Hearth Fires and Volcanoes Chicomecoatl - the goddess of Corn and Fertility Ehecatl - the god of the Wind Huitzilopochtli - a god of War and the Sun Huixtocihuatl - the goddess of Salt Itzpapalotl - a goddess of Agriculture Ixtlilton - the god of Healing, Feasting, and Games Macuilxochitl - the god of Music and Dance Mayahuel - a goddess of Maguey Metztli - the Moon god Mictlantecihuatl - the lady and goddess of Mictlan, the underworld Mictlantecuhtli - the lord and god of Mictlan and the dead. Ometecuhtli - the god of Duality Patecatl - the god of Medicine Paynal - the messenger to Huitzilopochtli Quetzalcoatl - the feathered serpent Teoyaomqui - the god of dead warriors Tlaloc - the great Rain and Fertility god Tlazolteotl - the goddess of Licentiousness Tonacatecuhtli - the creator and provider of Food Tonatiuh - Tonatiuh was a Sun god, the eagle, and heavenly warrior Xilonen - the goddess of young Maize Xipe Totec - the god of Seedtime Xochipilli - the god of Feasting and young Maize Yacatecuhtli - the god of Merchant Adventurers Bushongo mythology Bomazi Bumba Celtic mythology a more complete list can be found here. Belenus Bran Brigit Ceridwen Cernunos Dagda Danu Epona Gwydion Lugh Lyr Manannan mac Lir Morrigan Nemain Nuadha Ogma Chinese mythology Chang E Chi You Dragon Kings Eight Immortals Gong Gong Guanyin Guan Di Jade Emperor Three Pure Ones Nuwa Pangu Xi Wangmu Yi the Archer Zao Jun Chippewa mythology Nanabozho Sint Holo Wemicus Creek mythology Hisagita-imisi Dacian mythology Zamolxis Gebeleizis Bendis Dahomey mythology Agé Ayaba Da Gbadu Gleti Gu Lisa Loko Mawu Sakpata Sogbo Xevioso Zinsi Zinsu Dinka mythology Abuk Denka Juok Nyalitch Efik mythology Abassi Atai Egyptian mythology Egyptian deities are often portrayed as having animal heads in art; as an example, Anubis is often portrayed in statuary as having the body of a human, but the head of a canine. Many gods were portrayed with different animal heads, depending upon the situation. The Egyptians did NOT actually believe that their gods had animal heads; rather, they portrayed them that way as artistic symbolism. This may have been for the benefit of the illiterate. Anubis, God of Embalming, Friend of the Dead The Aten, the embodiment of the Sun's rays Atum, a creator deity Bast, Goddess of Cats Bes, God-Demon of Protection, Childbirth and Entertainment Geb, God of the Earth Hapi God of the Nile and Fertility Hathor, Goddess of Love and Music Heget Goddess of Childbirth Horus the falcon-headed god Imhotep God of wisdom, medicine and magic Isis, Goddess of Magic, sister of Nephthys Khepry, the scarab beetle, the embodiment of the dawn Khnum, a creator deity Maahes Ma'at, Goddess of Truth, Balance and Order Menhit Mont, god of war Naunet, the primal waters Neith, the great mother goddess Nephthys, mother of Anubis Nut, goddess of heaven and the sky Osiris Ptah, a creator deity Ra, the sun, possible father of Anubis Sekhmnet, goddess of war and battles Sobek, Crocodile God Set, God of Storms, possible father of Anubis Tefnut, goddess of order, justice, time, Heaven and Hell and weather Thoth, god of the moon, drawing, writing, geometry, wisdom, medicine, music, astronomy, and magic See http://touregypt.net/godsofegypt/ for the Egyptian Ministry of Tourism's extensive information on Egyptian Deities. Etruscan mythology Alpan Menrva Nethuns Tinia Turan Uni Voltumna Old Finnish deities There are very few written documents about old Finnish religions; also the names of deities and practices of worship changed from place to place. The following is a summary of the most important and most widely worshipped deities. Ukko, god of heaven and thunder Rauni, Ukko's wife, goddess of fertility Tapio, god of forest and wild animals Mielikki, Tapio's wife Pekko (or Peko), god or goddess (the actual gender is obscure) of fields and acriculture Ahti, (or Ahto) god of streams, lakes and sea Otso, son of a god, king of the forest whose carnal form is the bear Tuoni, goddess of the underworld Perkele, a god of the Lithuanians, drafted to do duty as "the devil" Jumala, a physical idol, later the name of the christian god Ancient Greek mythology Aphrodite Apollo Ares Artemis Athena Cronus Demeter Dionysus Eos Gaia Hades Hebe Hecate Helios Hephaestus Hera Hermes Hestia Pan Poseidon Rhea Selene Uranus Zeus See also Demigods, the Dryads, the Fates, the Erinyes, the Graces, the Horae, the Muses, the Nymphs, the Pleiades, the Titans Guarani mythology Abaangui Jurupari Haida mythology Gyhldeptis Lagua Nankil'slas Sin Ta'axet Tia Hinduism The Adityas Agni The Asura The Aswini Brahma Dyaush-pita Ganesh Hanuman Indra Kali Krishna Lakshmi Parjanya Parvathi Prithivi mata Purusha The Rudras Saraswathi Shiva Soma Ushas The Vasus Vayu Vishnu The Visvedevas Yama Hopi mythology Aholi Angwusnasomtaka Kokopelli Koyangwuti Muyingwa Taiowa Toho See also kachina Huron mythology Iosheka Ibo mythology Aha Njoku Ala Chuku Incan mythology Inti Kon Mama Cocha Mama Quilla Manco Capac Pachacamac Viracocha Zaramama Inuit mythology Igaluk Nanook Nerrivik Pinga Sedna Torngasoak Iroquois mythology Adekagagwaa Gaol Gendenwitha Gohone Hahgwehdaetgan Hahgwehdiyu Onatha Isoko mythology Cghene Japanese mythology Aji-Suki-Taka-Hiko-Ne - god of thunder Amaterasu - sun goddess Amatsu Mikaboshi - god of evil Ame-no-Uzume - fertility goddess Benzaiten - goddess of money, eloquent persuasion, and knowledge Bishamon - god of happiness and war Chimata-no-Kami - god of crossroads, highways and footpaths Hiruko - solar god Ho-Masubi - god of fire Inari - god of rice Izanami - creator goddess Izanagi - creator god Kagu-tsuchi - god of fire Kawa-no-Kami - god of rivers Kura-Okami - god of rain Nai-No-Kami - god of earthquakes O-Kuni-Nushi - god of sorcery and medicine O-Wata-Tsu-Mi - god of the sea Sengen-Sama - goddess of the Mt. Fujiyama Seven Gods of Fortune Shina-Tsu-Hiko - god of wind Shina-To-Be - goddess of wind Susa-no-Wo - god of storms and thunder, snakes and farming. Taka-Okami - god of rain Take-Mikazuchi - god of thunder Tsuku-Yomi - god of the moon Uke-Mochi - goddess of food Wakahiru-Me - goddess of the dawn sun see also Kami Khoikhoi mythology Gamab Heitsi-eibib Tsui'goab Modern Western mythology ("Kitchen Gods") In addition to the gods listed above, there are several minor mythological beings spoken of in current western culture and may be taken more or less seriously. These are commonly called Kitchen Gods. The Tooth Fairy - a childish sprite The Parking Fairy - responsible for finding parking spaces The Code Fairy - Eats semicolons from source code, causing working computer software to stop working The Traffic Light Fairy - responsible for changing lights to green Gaia - Mother nature Hotei - A Laughing Buddha Santa Claus - Originally Nicholas of Myra, but later turned into Father Christmas. Kwakiutl mythology Kewkwaxa'we Lakota mythology Canopus Haokah Whope Wi Lotuko mythology Ajok Latvian mythology Allowat Sakima Auseklis Dekla Dievs Karta Kishelemukong Perkons Saule Lugbara mythology Adroa Adroanzi Maya mythology Ahaw Kin - Sun God Chac - Rain God Yum Kaax - Corn God Kukulcan - Feathered Serpent God Xbalanque - God of the Jaguar Hunah Ku - Creator God Xi Balba - God of the Death Ix Chel - Moon Goddess Itzamna - Reptile Creator God Bolon tza cab - Ruling God of All Balac - War God Bacabs - Gods of the 4 directions Balam - Protector God Mesopotamian mythology Anshar - father of heaven Anu - the god of the highest heaven Apsu - the ruler of gods and underworld oceans Ashur - national god of the Assyrians Damkina - Earth mother goddess Ea - god of wisdom Enlil - god of weather and storms Enurta - god of war Hadad - weather god Ishtar - goddess of love Kingu - husband of Tiamat Kishar - father of earth Marduk - national god of the Babylonians Mummu - god of mists Nabu - god of the scribal arts Nintu - mother of all gods Shamash - god of the sun and of justice Sin - moon god Tiamat - dragon goddess Navaho mythology Ahsonnutli Bikeh Hozho Estanatelhi Glispa Hasteoltoi Hastshehogan Tonenili Tsohanoai Yolkai Estasan Norse mythology Aegir Baldur Bragi Freyr Freya Frigg Heimdall Hodur Idun Loki Niord Odin Sif Thor Tyr Vali Pawnee mythology Pah Shakuru Tirawa Polynesian mythology Atea Ina Kane Milohai Maui Papa Pele Rangi Rongo see also Menehune Old Prussian / Baltic deities Bangputtis Melletele Occupirn Perkunatete Perkunos Pikullos Potrimpos Swaigstigr Pygmy mythology Arebati Khonvoum Tore Roman mythology Apollo Bacchus Ceres Cupid Diana Janus Juno Jupiter Maia Mars Mercury Minerva Neptune Pluto Plutus Proserpine Saturn Uranus Venus Vesta Vulcan Salish mythology Amotken Sardinian deities Sardinian deities, mainly referred to in the age of Nuragici people, are partly derived from Phoenician ones. Janas Goddesses of death Maymon God of Hades Panas Goddesses of reproduction (women dead in childbirth) Thanit Goddess of Earth and fertility Seneca mythology Eagentci Hagones Hawenniyo Kaakwha Slavic mythology Belobog Cislobog Crnobog Dajbog Horos Jaro Koledo Lada Perun Radagast Simargl Stribog Svarog Svetovid Triglav Veles Sumerian mythology An Enki Enlil Inanna Nammu Nanna Ninhursag Ninlil Sin Utu See also Annuna Tumbuka mythology Chiuta Ugarit mythology El, the father God and head Baal, the God of rain Asherah, the Mother and Goddess of the Grove Yam, the God of the sea Mot, the God of death Note: Ugarit had a profound influence on Canaanite religion and some influence on the Abrahamic religions, as well. Winnebago mythology Kokopelli Yoruba mythology Aja Aje Egungun-oya Eshu Oba Obatala Odudua Oloddumare Olokun Olorun Orunmila Oschun Oshunmare Oya Shakpana Shango Yansan Yemaja Zulu mythology Mamlambo Mbaba Mwana Waresa uKqili Umvelinqangi Unkulunkulu Zuni mythology Apoyan Tachi Awitelin Tsta Awonawilona Kokopelli Take your pick & apply the same reasoning to the "god" of your choice! |
|
|
Your attitude towards other people beliefs is unique to say the least. If someone is an I believe only when i'm in dire straights type of person I think they deserve damnation more than athiests. They are pure users, only believe what and when it is convenient, and it will reflect in their dailey lives. I respect people like you for your whole hearted faith. If your gonna believe then their is no half way, not the way religion works. |
||
|
because those who worship Vishnu don't post annoying topics like this one perhaps? I'm fine with us both believing what we want to believe, but when someone posts something as stupid as the logic above, something has to be said. |
|
|
No offense, but that's no argument at all. I'd argue vehemently against anyone claiming that the earth is flat, or anyone claiming that a cruise missible (not a 767) hit the Pentagon. That doesn't meant that there's something to it that I'm desperately trying to deny - it just means that it's so stupid, that I want to argue forcefully against it to keep others from believing something that is obviously wrong. (I'm NOT saying a belief in God is stupid or obviously wrong - but the existence of God is by defintion pretty much non-provable, and has to exist by faith and implication, not by evidence) |
|
|
You are different than most. You are right - its all based on faith. And the same crowd that argues "tolerance" for their ideas ARGUES BITTERLY against others having faith. They attack faith in god. They DON'T argue as bitterly against anything OTHER THAN the notion of God. "Flat earth" doesn't require any life modifying behavior. God does. And so they rail against him. |
|
|
Why is it exactally that some people have to go around trying to prove that god exists?
I don't go around telling people "There's no god! And here's my circular argument to prove it!" |
|
I dont argue with people about weather or not God exists as a rule. Your religion is your business not mine and vice versa, But I will say this, I think what you may not be understanding Is that some people get to a place in life that goes far beyond Questioning their faith, A point where they just stop believing that there is a God. Once a person reaches that point there is no going back. Just like when as a child you learn that Santa does not exists. ( I am not comparing God to Santa ) And no matter how hard you try you just cant convince yourself that he does exists once you Know he doesn’t. (Santa) That is where I think you are getting so much resistance from people. Telling some people that there is a God is to them, Like me telling you that the Tooth fairy is real and you are going to Hell if you just wont accept that and put your teeth under your pillow at night. You’re just NOT going to change their minds. Just try'n to help. |
|||
|
Anyway, concerning the thread topic.... I find the logic weak and unconvincing. It's not going to convert anyone. To me, the existence of God is self-evident. Look around. Look up. It didn't all "just happen". That said, if you don't believe, so be it. I'm not going to try and convince you. Enjoy. |
|||
|
Yer not wrong. God alone can convince such a person of His existence. So I don't try to argue strongly to change their minds. I simply state my opinion, give my reasons, and leave it at that. |
|
|
I find everyone's lack of faith in Wedge's logic disturbing.
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.