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Posted: 3/1/2011 1:54:32 PM EST
After all the talk of unions lately, and after watching all of the "Union Thug" videos that everyone has been posting up.....it just seems like the majority of the Pro Union guys you see really don't act, look, or carry themselves like educated people. The "thugs" all look like burned out bikers and rough guys that only know how to yell, scream, and rough people up......but as soon as anyone tries to have an educated conversation with them, it's obvious that they are idiots.

Don't get me wrong, I have several friends that are great guys, smart, educated, but just happened to have a job that forces them to be Union. But I also know tons of union guys that I don't think could carry on an educated conversation if their lives depended on it. They just do what they are told, and trust the Union to tell them what is right and wrong.

I'm just saying that the "majority" of Union members seem to be pretty uneducated people...........am I way out of line for saying that??

Link Posted: 3/1/2011 1:55:20 PM EST
Yes you are out of line.

Now where is this poll?
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 1:56:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By nobodyg17:
Yes you are out of line.

Now where is this poll?


There you go....took me about 10sec.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 1:57:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/1/2011 1:58:47 PM EST by Tradesman]
The thugs you see making a fool of themselves don't represent the entire group.

It's not the majority that you see, you see the minority which happen to be assholes, criminals, and shitheads who go and do these types of things.

The majority are just people who want to go along with life.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 1:58:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By nobodyg17:
Yes you are out of line.


+1
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:00:55 PM EST
Poll fail... no option for "who gives a fuck"

Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:02:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
The thugs you see making a fool of themselves don't represent the entire group.

It's not the majority that you see, you see the minority which happen to be assholes, criminals, and shitheads who go and do these types of things.

The majority are just people who want to go along with life.


So why do the high up Union member stock the rally s with these types of people? Do they think that makes them look good? Why not educated people that know the issues at hand, and know how to make, prove, and defend their points?
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:03:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By scorpionmain:
Originally Posted By nobodyg17:
Yes you are out of line.


+1


The poll sure doesn't support your view......
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:04:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:05:30 PM EST
Educated vs uneducated is one thing, smart vs. dumb is another. Not necessarily related.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:05:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By imq707s:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
The thugs you see making a fool of themselves don't represent the entire group.

It's not the majority that you see, you see the minority which happen to be assholes, criminals, and shitheads who go and do these types of things.

The majority are just people who want to go along with life.


So why do the high up Union member stock the rally s with these types of people? Do they think that makes them look good? Why not educated people that know the issues at hand, and know how to make, prove, and defend their points?


Maybe the educated people know that there really isn't anything productive to do at a rally. Maybe they understand that they don't need a $3 raise, it would be better to keep their jobs instead of the plant closing.

From the inside I could tell you that the smarter and more skilled people very rarely talk about union dealings at all, it's always the slugs who are bringing up the union shit because they need it to survive.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:06:54 PM EST
I don't care about education if they can do the job. IME Union workers are second only to Government workers for incompetence and basic inability to work.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:07:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
The thugs you see making a fool of themselves don't represent the entire group.

It's not the majority that you see, you see the minority which happen to be assholes, criminals, and shitheads who go and do these types of things.

The majority are just people who want to go along with life.


They are the spokesman and to most people most representative examples of the group. This is the same for any group with a small and embarrassing subset. It isn't the peaceful Muslims that get our attention and cause people to form opinions, it is the ones who fly planes into buildings. If you don't like people assuming they represent the most common denominator, you need to so something about it, until then, I have no choice but to assume they speak for you and every other union member.

I can't disagree with you, what you say is true. But I still maintain that the dumbshits are in the minority. They might make the whole group look bad, but I'm pretty sure that you know that the majority aren't unintelligent assholes. That's what the poll is asking about.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:08:25 PM EST
Most union members I've known have been borderline retarded.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:08:36 PM EST
Where I work in the MD DC and NOVA area, Trade Union members are better educated than the non-Union Tradesmen. Not only in their skill sets but safety also.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:09:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:11:33 PM EST
My uncle was a union coal miner and then a union carpenter. He can't read or write. He was also a die-hard Democrat. Does that answer the question?
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:11:58 PM EST
I think the people with the union herd mentality aren't too bright. Just listen to them chanting their stupid slogans. Not an original thought in their heads
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:16:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By Slavac:
I know some very stupid union members and some quite brilliant ones. I also know a bunch of average ones.

Just like any other field.

Assuming they've a lower IQ than the general non-union working population is silly.


Not really. When it is harder (or in the case of the government, effectively impossible) to fire someone for incompetence, there will be more incompetent people than where it is trivial or easy to fire people for incompetence. This is true even if you assume similar incompetent-hiring rates, which is not even vaguely true of the government. I'm less sure of the union incompetent hiring rate.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:17:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By oresti:
My uncle was a union coal miner and then a union carpenter. He can't read or write. He was also a die-hard Democrat. Does that answer the question?

yes.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:18:04 PM EST
30 years at GM

There are few, if any, College degrees on the assembly line.

Don't get me started on the fucking UAW.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:19:32 PM EST
Trade Unions or Labor/Public Sector Unions. Big differences there.

I'm in the Carpenters Union. I am required to go to school for one week a quarter for training on different subjects, Roofs, framing, dry wall, ceiling systems, trim work, doors, staircases. Does this make me uneducated. How about the Associates I have in Computer Systems, the avionics MOS i have in the USMCR? Does these make me uneducated. Or the fact I left the computer field, and was accepted into the Carpenters Union so I could make a higher hourly wage to better support my family and learn a skill set that will help me more than computers will. Does this make me dumb? Most of what you see on the news is labor unions and public sector unions. I don't remember that last time I saw a trade union go on strike. Or go to rallies all day during the week. We need to work. We have no sick days, no vacation time in the carpenters. If we take a day off we don't get paid, simple as that. If I don't work a set number of hours every 6 months I don't get health insurance.

The labor unions and the like that you see on the news all the time use the biggest, meanest ugliest looking guys that can find for pyschological reasons. Same reasons clubs and bars use very large guys as bouncers. They know they can't get their way without bullying so they do. It really is that simple.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:22:32 PM EST
I've worked in construction most of my life, both union and non-union when I wasn't playing music professionally. Can't really say the level of education was any different, but the level of motivation and pride in a job well done were polar opposites to say the least. Last Union job I worked was for Northrop Grumman Shipyard here in Avondale. They basically worked on a "T&M" basis. Charging the Navy an exorbent rate per-man-hour for every person on the job at any given moment. Every ship went over budget and more than one ship were deemed unseaworthy by the Navy while I was there. The level of waste, corruption and "in-company-politics" I witnessed were enough to make anyone not want to pay taxes. Ever !
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:24:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By learath:
Originally Posted By Slavac:
I know some very stupid union members and some quite brilliant ones. I also know a bunch of average ones.

Just like any other field.

Assuming they've a lower IQ than the general non-union working population is silly.


Not really. When it is harder (or in the case of the government, effectively impossible) to fire someone for incompetence, there will be more incompetent people than where it is trivial or easy to fire people for incompetence. This is true even if you assume similar incompetent-hiring rates, which is not even vaguely true of the government. I'm less sure of the union incompetent hiring rate.


That's kind of how I see it also. The union keeps lots of lazy, uneducated people at their jobs..........if those same people where at a union job, they would have been let go a long time ago. It's a huge process trying to get rid of a union guy that does a bad job.....not so with a non union job.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:24:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
30 years at GM

There are few, if any, College degrees on the assembly line.

Don't get me started on the fucking UAW.


The UAW sucks balls, there is no doubting that.

But the question is if there are any college degrees on the non-union assembly lines?
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:25:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By airwing_jarhead:
Trade Unions or Labor/Public Sector Unions. Big differences there.

I'm in the Carpenters Union. I am required to go to school for one week a quarter for training on different subjects, Roofs, framing, dry wall, ceiling systems, trim work, doors, staircases. Does this make me uneducated. How about the Associates I have in Computer Systems, the avionics MOS i have in the USMCR? Does these make me uneducated. Or the fact I left the computer field, and was accepted into the Carpenters Union so I could make a higher hourly wage to better support my family and learn a skill set that will help me more than computers will. Does this make me dumb? Most of what you see on the news is labor unions and public sector unions. I don't remember that last time I saw a trade union go on strike. Or go to rallies all day during the week. We need to work. We have no sick days, no vacation time in the carpenters. If we take a day off we don't get paid, simple as that. If I don't work a set number of hours every 6 months I don't get health insurance.

The labor unions and the like that you see on the news all the time use the biggest, meanest ugliest looking guys that can find for pyschological reasons. Same reasons clubs and bars use very large guys as bouncers. They know they can't get their way without bullying so they do. It really is that simple.


I agree 100%.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:28:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/1/2011 2:29:29 PM EST by Tradesman]
Originally Posted By imq707s:
Originally Posted By airwing_jarhead:
Trade Unions or Labor/Public Sector Unions. Big differences there.

I'm in the Carpenters Union. I am required to go to school for one week a quarter for training on different subjects, Roofs, framing, dry wall, ceiling systems, trim work, doors, staircases. Does this make me uneducated. How about the Associates I have in Computer Systems, the avionics MOS i have in the USMCR? Does these make me uneducated. Or the fact I left the computer field, and was accepted into the Carpenters Union so I could make a higher hourly wage to better support my family and learn a skill set that will help me more than computers will. Does this make me dumb? Most of what you see on the news is labor unions and public sector unions. I don't remember that last time I saw a trade union go on strike. Or go to rallies all day during the week. We need to work. We have no sick days, no vacation time in the carpenters. If we take a day off we don't get paid, simple as that. If I don't work a set number of hours every 6 months I don't get health insurance.

The labor unions and the like that you see on the news all the time use the biggest, meanest ugliest looking guys that can find for pyschological reasons. Same reasons clubs and bars use very large guys as bouncers. They know they can't get their way without bullying so they do. It really is that simple.


I agree 100%.


I agree too, that goes along with your last post. In trade unions there is no seniority, no covering for shitty workers. You don't do the job, you get fire and find yourself back at the hall. My hall has a 2 shot deal, you get fired twice and you are out of the union.

It's not a huge process like in labor unions. As a foreman I have laid off plenty of slugs.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:29:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
30 years at GM

There are few, if any, College degrees on the assembly line.

Don't get me started on the fucking UAW.


The UAW sucks balls, there is no doubting that.

But the question is if there are any college degrees on the non-union assembly lines?


No, the degrees are usually in engineering and IT.

The repetitive tasks of product assembly calls for a dull mind.

Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:30:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
30 years at GM

There are few, if any, College degrees on the assembly line.

Don't get me started on the fucking UAW.


The UAW sucks balls, there is no doubting that.

But the question is if there are any college degrees on the non-union assembly lines?


No, the degrees are usually in engineering and IT.

The repetitive tasks of product assembly calls for a dull mind.



Agreed, but this thread is asking the difference in intelligence between union and non-union workers, which is why I am confused by your statement "There are few, if any, College degrees on the assembly line.".
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:33:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/1/2011 2:34:56 PM EST by pdg45acp]
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
30 years at GM

There are few, if any, College degrees on the assembly line.

Don't get me started on the fucking UAW.


The UAW sucks balls, there is no doubting that.

But the question is if there are any college degrees on the non-union assembly lines?


No, the degrees are usually in engineering and IT.

The repetitive tasks of product assembly calls for a dull mind.



Agreed, but this thread is asking the difference in intelligence between union and non-union workers, which is why I am confused by your statement "There are few, if any, College degrees on the assembly line.".


It's a true statement regardless, union or not.

The repetitive tasks of product assembly calls for a dull mind.

Your geniuses aren't on the assembly line, union or not. That's why they are easy pickings for unionization.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:33:51 PM EST
I'd like to see a poll of:

Union: HS education

Union: BS College Education

Union: Graduate Education

Non-Union: HS education

Non-Union: BS College Education

Union: Graduate Education
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:34:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
The thugs you see making a fool of themselves don't represent the entire group.

It's not the majority that you see, you see the minority which happen to be assholes, criminals, and shitheads who go and do these types of things.

The majority are just people who want to go along with life.


They are the spokesman and to most people most representative examples of the group. This is the same for any group with a small and embarrassing subset. It isn't the peaceful Muslims that get our attention and cause people to form opinions, it is the ones who fly planes into buildings. If you don't like people assuming they represent the most common denominator, you need to so something about it, until then, I have no choice but to assume they speak for you and every other union member.


So what you're saying is the minority of Union members are too cowardly to stand up and say what they really believe or could it be combination that and greed.
One thing is for sure, is that its hard to have any respect for anyone who allows the type thugs that we are currently witnessing, represent Union interests.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:35:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
30 years at GM

There are few, if any, College degrees on the assembly line.

Don't get me started on the fucking UAW.


The UAW sucks balls, there is no doubting that.

But the question is if there are any college degrees on the non-union assembly lines?


No, the degrees are usually in engineering and IT.

The repetitive tasks of product assembly calls for a dull mind.



Agreed, but this thread is asking the difference in intelligence between union and non-union workers, which is why I am confused by your statement "There are few, if any, College degrees on the assembly line.".


It's a true statement regardless, union or not.

The repetitive tasks of product assembly calls for a dull mind.

Your geniuses aren't on the assembly line, union or not.


Again, I agree with you. I'm just not understanding what that has to do with this thread?
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:39:21 PM EST
Yes, if just because most are probably blue collar.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:40:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
30 years at GM

There are few, if any, College degrees on the assembly line.

Don't get me started on the fucking UAW.


The UAW sucks balls, there is no doubting that.

But the question is if there are any college degrees on the non-union assembly lines?


No, the degrees are usually in engineering and IT.

The repetitive tasks of product assembly calls for a dull mind.



Agreed, but this thread is asking the difference in intelligence between union and non-union workers, which is why I am confused by your statement "There are few, if any, College degrees on the assembly line.".


It's a true statement regardless, union or not.

The repetitive tasks of product assembly calls for a dull mind.

Your geniuses aren't on the assembly line, union or not.


Again, I agree with you. I'm just not understanding what that has to do with this thread?


Thread title - Are the majority of Union workers less educated than Non-Union workers? **POLL*

My answers in a nutshell - assembly line workers (usually union) are dull, uneducated slugs, Engineering and IT (usually NON-UNION) is where all the brains are in company.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:43:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
30 years at GM

There are few, if any, College degrees on the assembly line.

Don't get me started on the fucking UAW.


The UAW sucks balls, there is no doubting that.

But the question is if there are any college degrees on the non-union assembly lines?


No, the degrees are usually in engineering and IT.

The repetitive tasks of product assembly calls for a dull mind.



Agreed, but this thread is asking the difference in intelligence between union and non-union workers, which is why I am confused by your statement "There are few, if any, College degrees on the assembly line.".


It's a true statement regardless, union or not.

The repetitive tasks of product assembly calls for a dull mind.

Your geniuses aren't on the assembly line, union or not.


Again, I agree with you. I'm just not understanding what that has to do with this thread?


Thread title - Are the majority of Union workers less educated than Non-Union workers? **POLL*

My answers in a nutshell - assembly line workers (usually union) are dull, uneducated slugs, Engineering and IT (usually NON-UNION) is where all the brains are in company.

That doesn't make any sense at all.

You should be comparing the union assembly line workers to the non-union assembly line workers.

Talk about "dull"

Link Posted: 3/1/2011 3:09:12 PM EST
From what I have gathered unions do nothing but degrade a country's education. For example, if I am a 18 year old kid getting out of high school and have two choices: Go to college and rely on my skills to make a good living or go to work for GM or some other POS co. for $80,000/yr plus big time benefits (and not worry about getting fired). I don't know about you guys but most 18 year old kids if given this choice are not going to go to college. Later on in life they (union slugs) all mention how they should have went to college because they could have made a ton of money and would have been good at this or that. When in reality all they ever became good at was sucking the teat of the taxpayer (let's face it the unions are propped up ultimately by the taxpayer).

On the flip side, I have met a few union folks who I would hire in a heartbeat. They could care less about the union and just want to work for a living and it just so happens that a union co. was hiring at the time.

Link Posted: 3/1/2011 4:16:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
30 years at GM

There are few, if any, College degrees on the assembly line.

Don't get me started on the fucking UAW.


The UAW sucks balls, there is no doubting that.

But the question is if there are any college degrees on the non-union assembly lines?


No, the degrees are usually in engineering and IT.

The repetitive tasks of product assembly calls for a dull mind.



Agreed, but this thread is asking the difference in intelligence between union and non-union workers, which is why I am confused by your statement "There are few, if any, College degrees on the assembly line.".


It's a true statement regardless, union or not.

The repetitive tasks of product assembly calls for a dull mind.

Your geniuses aren't on the assembly line, union or not.


Again, I agree with you. I'm just not understanding what that has to do with this thread?


Thread title - Are the majority of Union workers less educated than Non-Union workers? **POLL*

My answers in a nutshell - assembly line workers (usually union) are dull, uneducated slugs, Engineering and IT (usually NON-UNION) is where all the brains are in company.

That doesn't make any sense at all.

You should be comparing the union assembly line workers to the non-union assembly line workers.

Talk about "dull"



You appear to have some union background so let me help you through this.

My answer in the lowest common denominator - Union workers are dull, uneducated slugs. Non-Union people get degrees and become engineers.

That's the best I can do, anything more will require you to have special training.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 4:18:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/1/2011 4:20:59 PM EST by Tradesman]
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
30 years at GM

There are few, if any, College degrees on the assembly line.

Don't get me started on the fucking UAW.


The UAW sucks balls, there is no doubting that.

But the question is if there are any college degrees on the non-union assembly lines?


No, the degrees are usually in engineering and IT.

The repetitive tasks of product assembly calls for a dull mind.



Agreed, but this thread is asking the difference in intelligence between union and non-union workers, which is why I am confused by your statement "There are few, if any, College degrees on the assembly line.".


It's a true statement regardless, union or not.

The repetitive tasks of product assembly calls for a dull mind.

Your geniuses aren't on the assembly line, union or not.


Again, I agree with you. I'm just not understanding what that has to do with this thread?


Thread title - Are the majority of Union workers less educated than Non-Union workers? **POLL*

My answers in a nutshell - assembly line workers (usually union) are dull, uneducated slugs, Engineering and IT (usually NON-UNION) is where all the brains are in company.

That doesn't make any sense at all.

You should be comparing the union assembly line workers to the non-union assembly line workers.

Talk about "dull"



You appear to have some union background so let me help you through this.

My answer in the lowest common denominator - Union workers are dull, uneducated slugs. Non-Union people get degrees and become engineers.

That's the best I can do, anything more will require you to have special training.


I explained it a couple times, at this point the only answer is that you are being willfully ignorant.

This pole was between union and non-union employees. When making a comparison of union assembly line workers, you should be comparing them to non-union assembly line workers. Since you brought me up, I am an electrician, so it would make sense to compare me to a non-union electrician. And yes, I did go to college (NJIT).

Why don't you just compare janitors to the executive officers
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 4:18:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 4:19:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/1/2011 4:21:06 PM EST by cluster]
here is how i see it.. if they were skilled like plumbers and the like.. < trades >


they could get a job anywhere.. anytime.. more power to em.. congrats.

i envy them... and i tip my hat to them.



but the majority can not get a job somewhere else making to the same money ,,

that tells me thier "skills" are lacking.,

that should sum it up while not being ugly about it
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 4:22:33 PM EST
Your poll demonstrates ignorance. Education and intelligence are not the same. Also, a poll only serves to show what respondents believe to be the case, not what is true.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 4:23:42 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 4:25:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/1/2011 4:29:33 PM EST by pdg45acp]
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
............................
I explained it a couple times, at this point the only answer is that you are being willfully ignorant.
....


Thread title - Are the majority of Union workers less educated than Non-Union workers? **POLL*

The thread title asks for a caparison of union to non-union, nothing else.

Let me try again

Union employees at GM - dumbass, uneducated imbeciles on the assembly line.

Non-Union employees at GM - highly educated engineers.

That was my 30 years experience there.

You are falling have fallen into the union category here.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 4:30:46 PM EST
I've been working union (IBEW) for about 12 years. There are all types and the dem. cocksuckers really piss me off. To be honest I always thought that all union guys were like that.

Over the years I have found that roughly only a little over half of union members are liberal dem. cocksuckers.

The rest are hardcore republican/libertarian, hunters/rednecks that only want to make a good living doing a trade that should pay for a decent life and can't seem to figure out what their union 'brothers' see in the dem/lib's that makes them keep voting for them.

It could be that those redneck people are just the types that I gravitate towards though, being one myself.

Link Posted: 3/1/2011 4:34:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By cluster:
here is how i see it.. if they were skilled like plumbers and the like.. < trades >


they could get a job anywhere.. anytime.. more power to em.. congrats.

i envy them... and i tip my hat to them.



but the majority can not get a job somewhere else making to the same money ,,

that tells me thier "skills" are lacking.,

that should sum it up while not being ugly about it


Unfortunately most skilled trades pay far less to non union workers. In my trade, at least $10/hour, +benefits.

Doesn't have anything to do with "skills". I can guarantee you that as I worked non union prior to working for a union shop and have worked on many jobs with a mix of both.

Where I am at anyway. YMMV.

Link Posted: 3/1/2011 4:45:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mikuhl:
Originally Posted By cluster:
here is how i see it.. if they were skilled like plumbers and the like.. < trades >


they could get a job anywhere.. anytime.. more power to em.. congrats.

i envy them... and i tip my hat to them.



but the majority can not get a job somewhere else making to the same money ,,

that tells me thier "skills" are lacking.,

that should sum it up while not being ugly about it


Unfortunately most skilled trades pay far less to non union workers. In my trade, at least $10/hour, +benefits.

Doesn't have anything to do with "skills". I can guarantee you that as I worked non union prior to working for a union shop and have worked on many jobs with a mix of both.

Where I am at anyway. YMMV.



That's true, in the trades non-union makes less, but it's not always that much. When I leave the union for an open shop, I'm looking at about a $5-7/hr paycut along with no pension, just a 401K. But the difference is I will be working all year, so I'll still make as much or more.

With all of the union bullshit, they keep driving down their marketshare. At this point, there is very little work. It doesn't matter how much you make per hour when you multiply it by 0 hours.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 5:06:37 PM EST
I've worked union and non union in construction and didn't really notice a difference in the intelligence levels. Laborers can be quite stupid, but that's why they're laborers. Wish I'd been working union when I got knocked off a tower crane a few years ago.

Stevedores and longshoreman are typically pretty goofy but I wouldn't say it to their faces because they can usually fight pretty well.

When you get into the union service workers like cleaners they're pretty dumb. I'm talking people in their 40's who scrub toilets and buff floors for a living. But like my father always told me,"everybody's got their skill level".

Now if you're talking about any government union people, they can be fucktarded to the extreme.

Unions were necessary at one time but now they've just degenerated into criminal organizations. They need to go. Unfortunately they won't and they're going to destroy us in the end.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 5:18:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mikuhl:
Originally Posted By cluster:
here is how i see it.. if they were skilled like plumbers and the like.. < trades >


they could get a job anywhere.. anytime.. more power to em.. congrats.

i envy them... and i tip my hat to them.



but the majority can not get a job somewhere else making to the same money ,,

that tells me thier "skills" are lacking.,

that should sum it up while not being ugly about it


Unfortunately most skilled trades pay far less to non union workers. In my trade, at least $10/hour, +benefits.

Doesn't have anything to do with "skills". I can guarantee you that as I worked non union prior to working for a union shop and have worked on many jobs with a mix of both.

Where I am at anyway. YMMV.



You're 100% correct.

I can work in SC as a foreman in a non-union company and make $15/hour with no benefits or I can work out of state as a Journeyman, and not as a foreman, and make $35.84/hour with benefits working for a Union company. Union Foremans make a $1 more an hour for every 5 guys under them. To me that's a no brainer. I don't mind being away from home for extended periods.

The UNINFORMED HATERS here want to lump all Unions together and the fact is they are not the same even in the different Trade Unions.

As far as education goes, I'm a High School graduate, an Army Veteran and have completed a 4 year apprenticeship plus way over 100 hours of classes in crane rigging, safety and OSHA certifications.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 5:48:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By AKSU:
Originally Posted By Mikuhl:
Originally Posted By cluster:
here is how i see it.. if they were skilled like plumbers and the like.. < trades >


they could get a job anywhere.. anytime.. more power to em.. congrats.

i envy them... and i tip my hat to them.



but the majority can not get a job somewhere else making to the same money ,,

that tells me thier "skills" are lacking.,

that should sum it up while not being ugly about it


Unfortunately most skilled trades pay far less to non union workers. In my trade, at least $10/hour, +benefits.

Doesn't have anything to do with "skills". I can guarantee you that as I worked non union prior to working for a union shop and have worked on many jobs with a mix of both.

Where I am at anyway. YMMV.



You're 100% correct.

I can work in SC as a foreman in a non-union company and make $15/hour with no benefits or I can work out of state as a Journeyman, and not as a foreman, and make $35.84/hour with benefits working for a Union company. Union Foremans make a $1 more an hour for every 5 guys under them. To me that's a no brainer. I don't mind being away from home for extended periods.

The UNINFORMED HATERS here want to lump all Unions together and the fact is they are not the same even in the different Trade Unions.

As far as education goes, I'm a High School graduate, an Army Veteran and have completed a 4 year apprenticeship plus way over 100 hours of classes in crane rigging, safety and OSHA certifications.


So wait, you're saying that you have no problem with a union forcing companies to pay 35$/hr for someone to do a job that's worth 15$/hr?
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 5:49:19 PM EST
Union Pipefitter here.

The only reason I am in a union is it pays much more than non-union, and just about anything Industrial or more than a rooftop air conditioner around here is done by union contractors. In the union I belong to, if you can't do your job, you are fired. There is no protection for incompetence when we (union trades) are selling ourselves as the best people you can get to build your buildings and service them.

My take on the unions in Wisconsin? They are pissing me off to no end. I say let the rubber bullets fly and crush them.

Also, I would say that only about 30-40% of the union is hardcore democrat.

Dan
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