[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Law Suit, KE Arms, Karl InRange TV, GWACS CAV arms molds Brownells (Page 4 of 5)
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Quoted: I’d be willing to bet Reed Oppenheimer‘s gun son is on here. I don’t know if Reed Oppenheimer(GWACS investor and the person that people are alleging is funding this lawsuit against KE) is a gun guy but I know at least one of his sons is a big gun guy and big time hunter. From what I can tell, Reed is a lefty when it comes to politics and I’m not entirely sure of his sons exact political beliefs but I think the gun son at least used to sit on both sides of the fence. The son is big into environmental and humanitarian causes but also big gun guy and huge hunter. I wouldn’t be surprised if Reed’s involvement in GWACS was partially his son‘s doing and his son was definitely involved in the company back when GWACS started. As far as people mentioning trying to boycott any companies Reed is a part of, I don’t think that’s going to do much good. A quick little genealogy search appears to show that Reed‘s father was Harold L. Oppenheimer of Kansas City, who founded Oppenheimer Industries Inc., a cattle and land management and investment company that was based in Kansas City. Linked article about Reed’s dad linked below. Reed’s Father’s(Harold’s) Step-father was Jules C. Stein, who founded and owned Music Corporation of America. MCA was a giant, multibillion dollar corporation back in the day and was the predecessor of, or owned, Universal Pictures, Universal Music, and NBCUniversal. I have no idea of Reed’s money but there appears to be massive generation wealth accumimated by his father and step-grandfather. If it’s any comparison, one of Reed’s brothers is a big philanthropist and art collector in Kansas City who apparently has purchased and donated 10+ million dollars in art to a local museum. Reed’s father https://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,844610,00.html Reed’s stepgrandfather https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_C._Stein Fair enough. He’s too big to fail. Doesn’t mean we can’t try to make his life annoying and more difficult than it needs to be… …just like he’s making it for KE Arms and their associates. |
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Honest question for those dismissing this due to Karl’s involvement: Okay, so Karl’s a jackass. Fair enough. A gun company is still being sued by another gun company, under questionable circumstances, which is owned by a guy who donates to Chuck Schumer. A company ostensibly involved with the manufacture of AR15 receivers is funding this suit and is owned by someone who supports a know gun grabber.  This deserves some attention for that alone. Set aside the personalities involved for 10 seconds and re-read that. |
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Quoted: Honest question for those dismissing this due to Karl’s involvement: Okay, so Karl’s a jackass. Fair enough. A gun company is still being sued by another gun company, under questionable circumstances, which is owned by a guy who donates to Chuck Schumer. A company ostensibly involved with the manufacture of AR15 receivers is funding a suit and is owned by someone who supports a know gun grabber. This deserves some attention for that alone. Set aside the personalities involved for 10 seconds and re-read that. Don't pay those people any attention or give them any attention. Its not worth trying to convince them and engaging them will only derail the thread focus away from the important stuff. |
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Quoted: For the past 2 years we have been engaged in litigation with GWACS Armory centered around the KP-15 receiver. We believe the claims alleged by GWACS Armory to be false and their entire suit to be frivolous. Recently we’ve received many inquiries on how people can help support us in this litigation. The best way to help us fund this ongoing litigation is to purchase KE Arms products. Use code DEFEND2A25 to save 25% on KP-15 or KP-9 receivers purchased through KEArms.com KE Arms is an ardent defender of the second amendment. One of our goals has always been to make affordable quality firearms available to the firearms community. We appreciate the 2A Community and its support for KE Arms and its products. I can’t find any Flat Dark Earth lowers on your website. |
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Quoted: Karl is an open leftist who just happens to like guns and Ian likely is too as he fully supports him and continues associating with him. I don’t know a thing about the legal stuff but the WWSD rifle is an absolute rip off. Great concept, but the cost and promotion is cringe. Quoted: Quoted: Why don’t we like InRange? Karl is an open leftist who just happens to like guns and Ian likely is too as he fully supports him and continues associating with him. I don’t know a thing about the legal stuff but the WWSD rifle is an absolute rip off. Great concept, but the cost and promotion is cringe. Karl is low left quadrant, Ian has refuted being a leftist of any sort multiple times. Also, fuck GWACS. |
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Quoted: Its worth watching. Watched it a 1.75 speed. But basically, InRange has/had a "What would stoner do" DIY gun project. Lightweight gun, modern materials. One of the integral parts of this build is/was the polymer CavArms Mk2 lower. Due to legal reasons (some of us remember this), CavArms went out of business and sold the injection molds for this to a company called GWACS. GWACS sold out of lowers and (according to them) wore out the mold fulfilling orders from people doing WWSD project guns. Brownells approached InRange about turning it into a commercial project. GWACS goes dark for a couple of years, loses their LLC, doesn't return anyone's calls. InRange/Brownells goes to KE Arms (who produced other parts for the WWSD) and consults with them about making new molds with a brand new design lower. GWACS then goes full fucktard lawsuit and claims shit like they own the intellectual property of the CavArms MK2 lower (they don't) and that the KE Arms lower is infringing on their intellectual property because it 1. has an A1 length of pull 2. has a trapdoor compartment 3. I forget, watch the video So GWACS is suing basically everyone... and why? Oh, it turns out one of the "investors" for GWACs who helped buy the CavArms MK2 molds for them is funding the lawsuit and "has no interest in producing military style firearms for public sale" I'm sure I'm missing important details. Watch the video. You know, I always wanted one of those cav arms lowers back in the day but just never got around to buying one. I think I'll get one of the KE Arms one just to help support them against GWACS. Thanks for writing that out. Hopefully gwacs loses. |
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The filings in the dropbox link posted are telling. 1.) This is not about patent infringement...there is no patent. it's about trade secrets, NDAs, and GWACS belief that when they purchased the molds, they also received that IP along with the purchase. 2.) Shawn Nealson's declaration mentions: -- The IP wasn't sold to them, only the physical molds. He sold the IP to another party. -- The mold was aluminum for the injection molding nerds here. That explains why it wore out so quickly. (steel molds we use are good for 10's or 100's of thousands of shots, aluminum is much cheaper and easier, but wear out quickly) 3.) Russel Phagan has the APA in his declaration... it at least mentions selling some IP...but it's kinda not clear what exact IP it was? Since Calvary never sold him the IP to begin with! Not an attorney, but I'm not sure how they have much of a case against KE Arms, Brownells, etc... if anything they might have a case against SST/Phagan for selling them some IP he didn't have the rights to sell to begin with. |
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Quoted: Karl is an open leftist who just happens to like guns and Ian likely is too as he fully supports him and continues associating with him. I don’t know a thing about the legal stuff but the WWSD rifle is an absolute rip off. Great concept, but the cost and promotion is cringe. Quoted: Quoted: Why don’t we like InRange? Karl is an open leftist who just happens to like guns and Ian likely is too as he fully supports him and continues associating with him. I don’t know a thing about the legal stuff but the WWSD rifle is an absolute rip off. Great concept, but the cost and promotion is cringe. Ahh okay |
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Quoted: Karl is low left quadrant, Ian has refuted being a leftist of any sort multiple times. Also, fuck GWACS. Eh. I’m no pig so I choose not to bathe in pig shit. Karl has tainted InRange horribly and Ian still has his hand in his pants. No thanks to anything InRange. |
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Quoted: 3.) Russel Phagan has the APA in his declaration... it at least mentions selling some IP...but it's kinda not clear what exact IP it was? Since Calvary never sold him the IP to begin with! What the IP was is in the sales contract that is in evidence. There is a single line in the sale contract listing this. I describe what this was in my deposition transcript. You should also note that I am informed and believe that GWACS current counsel are the ones that wrote the APA contract. You should also note that the APA doesn’t say the name CAV-15 or CAV-15 MKII anywhere in it. |
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Quoted: Karl is an open leftist who just happens to like guns and Ian likely is too as he fully supports him and continues associating with him. I don't know a thing about the legal stuff but the WWSD rifle is an absolute rip off. Great concept, but the cost and promotion is cringe. Quoted: Quoted: Why don't we like InRange? Karl is an open leftist who just happens to like guns and Ian likely is too as he fully supports him and continues associating with him. I don't know a thing about the legal stuff but the WWSD rifle is an absolute rip off. Great concept, but the cost and promotion is cringe. 
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Quoted: The trap door buttstock is centuries old. And didn't the M16A1 have an A1 length of pull? As well as a trapdoor buttstock? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am guessing since patents haven't came up in their discussion the patent may have been abandoned(fees weren't paid) or the patent is expired or a large part of it was/is. Manufacturing processes and procedures along with blueprints would absolutely be part of an IP lawsuit if that information was held by gwacs and was not transferred to another party without a contract or paper/email trail stating the authorized use of this IP. It was in the video and its in the filing documents KE Arms posted in this thread earlier. Nealon did not patent any of the cav arms mk 2 stuff. In fact, he freely shared everything (files, drawings, blueprints, etc) with the public, in part to bolster faith in a polymer lower. In the early 2000s, people were not sold on the idea of injection molded AR lowers. Hell, you apparently could even walk in off the street and eat pizza and help run the injection molding machines with them. I wish I'd known about all this. I'd have made a trip to hang out with them and make plastic fantastics. So not only were none of the "innovations" of cav arms mk 2 patented... nothing about it was patentable in the opinion of its designer. And if it wasn't patentable then, before the design was freely shared with public, it is definitely not patentable now. And its even worse in that they're trying to assert that they (GWACS) own the intellectual property rights to the A1 length of pull and a trap door buttstock. At least, this is my understanding of the claims/counter from the videos and documents I have seen. I am not a lawyer but it sure seems like "law-fare" to me. The A1 doesn't have A1 length of pull. It's got AR-15 R601 length of pull! That puts the development in 1959 or 1960. Unless you're Disney, patents don't last that long. |
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Quoted: They make $25 A1 stocks. Quoted: Quoted: Pardon my confusion, trying to keep up here but where does Cavalry Manufacturing fit into all of this? Someone posted a link earlier in the thread. They make $25 A1 stocks. And thanks again for that link. I'm delighted that they still make the full set of pink furniture - kids always loved that. |
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Quoted: Pardon my confusion, trying to keep up here but where does Cavalry Manufacturing fit into all of this? Someone posted a link earlier in the thread. russell sold the mold to gwacs Russel made a new lower gwacs claims Russell used proprietary information that gwacs owns as a result of the sale from Russell to gwacs Cavarns says it didn't sell any proprietary info to Russell and that there was no proprietary info to sell to Russell. This is backed up by Cavarms having made public all info regarding the lower the mold was made for years ago. |
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Quoted: Cav arms sold a lower mold to Russell russell sold the mold to gwacs Russel made a new lower gwacs claims Russell used proprietary information that gwacs owns as a result of the sale from Russell to gwacs Cavarns says it didn't sell any proprietary info to Russell and that there was no proprietary info to sell to Russell. This is backed up by Cavarms having made public all info regarding the lower the mold was made for years ago. Quoted: Quoted: Pardon my confusion, trying to keep up here but where does Cavalry Manufacturing fit into all of this? Someone posted a link earlier in the thread. Cav arms sold a lower mold to Russell russell sold the mold to gwacs Russel made a new lower gwacs claims Russell used proprietary information that gwacs owns as a result of the sale from Russell to gwacs Cavarns says it didn't sell any proprietary info to Russell and that there was no proprietary info to sell to Russell. This is backed up by Cavarms having made public all info regarding the lower the mold was made for years ago. Yeah, Counselor, he's asking about Cavalry Manufacturing, who do medical kits and AR furniture. |
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Quoted: Still fucked out of existence and this appears to just be a fight over branding the leftovers. Quoted: Quoted: Pardon my confusion, trying to keep up here but where does Cavalry Manufacturing fit into all of this? Someone posted a link earlier in the thread. Still fucked out of existence and this appears to just be a fight over branding the leftovers. No, no, Cavalry Manufacturing is very much around and shipping product. https://cavmfg.com/ Focus, ppl. |
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Quoted: Pretty ridiculous for a rifle with a $120 barrel. Someone here added it all up and it came in about $1000, mostly because Faxon got real proud of their carbon fiber handguards recently. Wrong the BOM at wholesale prices is close to $1000. The price of the WWSD rifle is literally the MSRP of all the components added together. $220 SLT trigger $120 JP SCSS $350 carbon fiber handguard $300 bolt group $50 mag catch $65 PDQ lever To name a few components. And we pay 11% of the sale price to the feds as FET. Of course you can build one cheaper yourself buying parts on sale and not paying FET. But you won’t get to $1000. Stripped lowers are $110, milspec lowers are $200 MSRP. And If you’re aggro about price we have $600 complete rifles for sale currently with the most basic parts we make. |
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Quoted: Still fucked out of existence and this appears to just be a fight over branding the leftovers. |
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Quoted: Wrong the BOM at wholesale prices is close to $1000. The price of the WWSD rifle is literally the MSRP of all the components added together. $220 SLT trigger $120 JP SCSS $350 carbon fiber handguard $300 bolt group $50 mag catch $65 PDQ lever To name a few components. And we pay 11% of the sale price to the feds as FET. Of course you can build one cheaper yourself buying parts on sale and not paying FET. But you won’t get to $1000. Stripped lowers are $110, milspec lowers are $200 MSRP. And If you’re aggro about price we have $600 complete rifles for sale currently with the most basic parts we make. Eh, I’ll agree to that, but still a Faxon barrel, unstaked BCG that offers less benefit over a cheaper and better chrome option (which Stoner would never do), and quite a few people have had issues with the JP captured over the years. To be fair, they may be ironed out now, but the whole thing has no appeal to me. I’d rather have a $330 barrel than a $120-$150 barrel and a $330 hand guard. Just feels like lipstick on a pig. Lucky I’m not everyone, but I wouldn’t recommend this rifle to anyone. Not to mention some of the proceeds go to leftists. |
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Quoted: Okay Cav manufacturing has nothing to do with any of this. It's a company created after the end of Cavarms and only sells furniture and med equipment, not lowers. Sorry I forgot that it had a similar name No need to apologize, I'd forgotten about the change as well. TBH if Shawn was benefiting from WWSD revenue I'd probably be a little less salty but the "project" always struck me as distasteful given how he got his Federal colonoscopy. |
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Quoted: They make $25 A1 stocks. Quoted: Quoted: Pardon my confusion, trying to keep up here but where does Cavalry Manufacturing fit into all of this? Someone posted a link earlier in the thread. They make $25 A1 stocks.  My girls would love some orange and purple furniture, but dat commercial tube. |
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Quoted: No need to apologize, I'd forgotten about the change as well. TBH if Shawn was benefiting from WWSD revenue I'd probably be a little less salty but the "project" always struck me as distasteful given how he got his Federal colonoscopy. Shawn cannot benefit from the sale of firearms because right or wrong he is a felon. If you actually talk to him he’s happy that the concept of a monolithic polymer receiver lives on and that the KP-15 is the receiver he wishes he had the resources to make. |
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Quoted: Not with my shitty skills. You're the talented one here Lego Man.  But for some damn reason I want to SBR one. I just like the idea of an ultralight compact rifle with a fixed stock. I have plenty of SBRs already though. I think I might like to have another inch taken off of the stock like some companies used to do for the CavArms and GWACS MKIIs to drop it down a bit shorter than A1 length. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I agree, but the pistol grip on the older ones is more comfortable to me. It's just a trade off and the odds are the features of the KEs I have already will outweigh the ergos of the older pistol grip for me. I'll most likely end up with a Black KE to go with my OD and FDE. I just need more trigger time with the newer ones.  They're plastic - you can weld em w/ a soldering iron.  But for some damn reason I want to SBR one. I just like the idea of an ultralight compact rifle with a fixed stock. I have plenty of SBRs already though. I think I might like to have another inch taken off of the stock like some companies used to do for the CavArms and GWACS MKIIs to drop it down a bit shorter than A1 length. I SBR'd one and put a Hahn top loading Colt SMG mag block, a 7" AR9 upper sporting a T2, and a SiCo 9Osprey on it for my wife. I run an 8.5oz Slash HeavyBuffer and regular carbine spring and it's a fun little AR9 with a good LOP and rear biased COG that's good for her. |
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Quoted: No need to apologize, I'd forgotten about the change as well. TBH if Shawn was benefiting from WWSD revenue I'd probably be a little less salty but the "project" always struck me as distasteful given how he got his Federal colonoscopy. Quoted: Quoted: Okay Cav manufacturing has nothing to do with any of this. It's a company created after the end of Cavarms and only sells furniture and med equipment, not lowers. Sorry I forgot that it had a similar name No need to apologize, I'd forgotten about the change as well. TBH if Shawn was benefiting from WWSD revenue I'd probably be a little less salty but the "project" always struck me as distasteful given how he got his Federal colonoscopy. I think Shawn was legally prohibited from being involved in the design or manufacture of firearms as part of his plea deal. Presumably that's why he's selling med kits and stocks and hand guards which aren't serialized parts (yet ) Gwacs might survive summary judgement and take the case to trial, but I don't see how they get past Shawn showing up in court and saying "I never had any proprietary information to sell Russell. I never applied for a patent, I posted photos of my blue prints, I let any random dude who hung around with us to not only see what I made, but help assemble the lowers." I think Shawn's going to wipe the court room floor with GWACs. Not to mention trotting in the old cav arms hangers on who are going to tell how they trimmed the lowers, and had sim gun fights with the molds laying on the table, and sat around listening to Shawn explain the entire manufacturing process with a beer in one hand and a slice of pepperoni in the other. Regardless of what grievances anyone might have over politics or past issues-the Stoner Do guys, and especially Russell, tried to do new and fun things in the gun industry. I didn't buy a Stoner Do rifle, course it was illegal in NY, but they did reignite some interest in the polymer lowers Shawn pioneered. I still have some and I shoot one regularly. It's a neat idea that suffered from Shawn's legal problems and really before that the end of the awb I think drew off interest in fixed stocks. But interest in ARs exploded after that so maybe it's a type of product that will take root again. The part that sucks is that Russell is really the one still carrying the flag for this product and now even if he wins he's looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees. Brownells probably isn't scared of duking it out with GWACs, but that's a huge burden for a small businessman like Russell. And GWACs sued Shawn? What the fuck? |
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Quoted: Ha! For that you want @BIgDAM Quoted: Quoted: Not with my shitty skills. You're the talented one here Lego Man. But for some damn reason I want to SBR one. I just like the idea of an ultralight compact rifle with a fixed stock. I have plenty of SBRs already though. I think I might like to have another inch taken off of the stock like some companies used to do for the CavArms and GWACS MKIIs to drop it down a bit shorter than A1 length. Ha! For that you want @BIgDAM The hardest part is making sure you cut at the same angle. I then just epoxied on a 1/2" rubber butt pad and trimmed it. Attached File Attached File |
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Quoted: I SBR'd one and put a Hahn top loading Colt SMG mag block, a 7" AR9 upper sporting a T2, and a SiCo 9Osprey on it for my wife. I run an 8.5oz Slash HeavyBuffer and regular carbine spring and it's a fun little AR9 with a good LOP and rear biased COG that's good for her. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I agree, but the pistol grip on the older ones is more comfortable to me. It's just a trade off and the odds are the features of the KEs I have already will outweigh the ergos of the older pistol grip for me. I'll most likely end up with a Black KE to go with my OD and FDE. I just need more trigger time with the newer ones. They're plastic - you can weld em w/ a soldering iron. But for some damn reason I want to SBR one. I just like the idea of an ultralight compact rifle with a fixed stock. I have plenty of SBRs already though. I think I might like to have another inch taken off of the stock like some companies used to do for the CavArms and GWACS MKIIs to drop it down a bit shorter than A1 length. I SBR'd one and put a Hahn top loading Colt SMG mag block, a 7" AR9 upper sporting a T2, and a SiCo 9Osprey on it for my wife. I run an 8.5oz Slash HeavyBuffer and regular carbine spring and it's a fun little AR9 with a good LOP and rear biased COG that's good for her. |
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Quoted: @packinheavy It's so easy even a retard like me could do it. I used a scroll saw. The hardest part is making sure you cut at the same angle. I then just epoxied on a 1/2" rubber butt pad and trimmed it. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/251964/20180414_125643_jpg-2466192.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/251964/20180516_142722_jpg-2466193.JPG Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not with my shitty skills. You're the talented one here Lego Man. But for some damn reason I want to SBR one. I just like the idea of an ultralight compact rifle with a fixed stock. I have plenty of SBRs already though. I think I might like to have another inch taken off of the stock like some companies used to do for the CavArms and GWACS MKIIs to drop it down a bit shorter than A1 length. Ha! For that you want @BIgDAM The hardest part is making sure you cut at the same angle. I then just epoxied on a 1/2" rubber butt pad and trimmed it. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/251964/20180414_125643_jpg-2466192.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/251964/20180516_142722_jpg-2466193.JPG |
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Quoted: Shawn cannot benefit from the sale of firearms because right or wrong he is a felon. If you actually talk to him he’s happy that the concept of a monolithic polymer receiver lives on and that the KP-15 is the receiver he wishes he had the resources to make. In much the same way Randy Weaver was all while Fast and Furry-ous was going on. |
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Quoted: I grew up around injection molding. I'm wondering how someone wears out a mold? You can easily damage one if you don't know what are doing (they can be repaired). But its next to impossible to wear out a mold. My dad had molds that were ran close to 24/7 for 30 years that were still running fine. I worked in the similar diecasting industry. Our dies suffered the thermal shock of injections of molten metal and chilled water every cycle for hours, days, years. Agreed. |
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Quoted: So GWAC's claim is 1-Sean sells the mold to Russell. This transfers the related intellectual property to Russell. 2-Russell sells the mold to GWACS. This transfers the intellectual property to GWACs. 3-GWACs goes out of business 4-Russell, Karl and Ian design a new lower 5-GWACs rises from the grave despite dissolving the corporation (this guy from OK could somehow have GWAC's intellectual property. 6-GWACs sues over the new lower designed by Karl, Ian and Russell Intellectual property isn't my thing but 1-did GWAC's really obtain intellectual property related to the mold? 2-Do the current plaintiffs own that intellectual property? 3-what intellectual property is there? As Karl pointed out, Shawn himself didn't think there was anything to protect as this was existing technology. 4-how does the new design infringe on the cav arms intellectual property? Shawn's claim to fame is the integrated stock. Is that really "patentable" or otherwise protected? Do the plaintiffs really own Shawn's idea for an integrated stock? Unless GWAC has some sort of paper on the IP, I don't see how them buying the mold transfers it. If there was no patent or other agreement, my understanding (which may be wrong) is that the IP stays with the creator which would be Sean. CavArms was pretty famous for playing fast and loose with anything vaguely resembling trade secrets, so I'm inclined to agree with Karl that this wasn't likely patented. If I go and buy a CNC machine, I don't automatically have the IP to make the same shit that the prior owner of the machine made. I don't see how this is any different. |
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Here’s my official statement I’ve been receiving numerous messages from friends and followers about the ongoing litigation with GWACS Armory centered around the KP-15. As you may know, GWACS filed suit against myself and my business Sinistral Shooting Technologies in 2020 alleging NDA and Trade Secret violations. I think the best way to address this is by sharing my declaration made to the court with supporting documents that was filed recently. You can find that document here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gx8rs50qy35qn5i/%23124%202022-07-18%20Declaration%20of%20Russell%20Phagan%20ISO%20Defendants_%20Motion%20for%20Summary%20Judgment.PDF?dl=0 GWACS has made a number of claims in this case that I believe to be false and outright offensive. One of the most offensive of these is their belief that they own every idea in my head related to polymer receiver designs through present day. I never signed a non-compete. I concluded my sale to them in good faith, delivering all the assets they purchased. For years after my sale to them was completed I continued to try to help them improve their product and market it more successfully. I did this because I believed in the product and did so without any direct compensation. I have dedicated my entire adult life to improving firearms designs and their use because I truly believe in the Second Amendment and the rights of all free people to be armed. My passion for competitive shooting and sharing that with my audience comes from a basis of encouraging everyone in this community to improve themselves and be better. I know I will never get rich in this industry, my satisfaction comes from advancing and improving the technology and the skills of the people in it. I am very fortunate that KE Arms has allowed me to make so many of my ideas a reality for the firearms community. If you want to help KE Arms, the best way to do so is to purchase KE Arms products. KE Arms is offering a discount code DEFEND2A25 to save 25% on all KP-15 and KP-9 receivers ordered through KEArms.com |
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Quoted: Thanks for the synopsis. I avoid giving inrange views when I can. Quoted: Quoted: Its worth watching. Watched it a 1.75 speed. But basically, InRange has/had a "What would stoner do" DIY gun project. Lightweight gun, modern materials. One of the integral parts of this build is/was the polymer CavArms Mk2 lower. Due to legal reasons (some of us remember this), CavArms went out of business and sold the injection molds for this to a company called GWACS. GWACS sold out of lowers and (according to them) wore out the mold fulfilling orders from people doing WWSD project guns. Brownells approached InRange about turning it into a commercial project. GWACS goes dark for a couple of years, loses their LLC, doesn't return anyone's calls. InRange/Brownells goes to KE Arms (who produced other parts for the WWSD) and consults with them about making new molds with a brand new design lower. GWACS then goes full fucktard lawsuit and claims shit like they own the intellectual property of the CavArms MK2 lower (they don't) and that the KE Arms lower is infringing on their intellectual property because it 1. has an A1 length of pull 2. has a trapdoor compartment 3. I forget, watch the video So GWACS is suing basically everyone... and why? Oh, it turns out one of the "investors" for GWACs who helped buy the CavArms MK2 molds for them is funding the lawsuit and "has no interest in producing military style firearms for public sale" I'm sure I'm missing important details. Watch the video. You know, I always wanted one of those cav arms lowers back in the day but just never got around to buying one. I think I'll get one of the KE Arms one just to help support them against GWACS. Thanks for the synopsis. I avoid giving inrange views when I can. I avoid giving them views, too. They are very intelligent and knowledgeable satanist flakes. |
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Quoted: I’m well aware. I was there. They fucked up my life too, just not as bad. It was like watching a plane crash which is why it baffles me how it's glossed over given the current climate. TBH it had been so long that I thought you two were the same person until the WWSD thing kicked off. I recognize a lot of screen names here but don't remember a lot of the context from those early days on the forums since I was deployed. |
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I bought a complete lower and made my very own WWSD walmart version rifle. I think I paid a little less than 600 all told. complete KE KP-15 lower 180 Aero pencil 100 DSA lightweight BCG 130 anderson upper 40 MI m-lok rail 150 ish (came off another rifle) I hope this lawsuit goes nowhere fast. |
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Quoted: Yup Love mine. Color in real is lighter than what it looks in my pic https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56774/4ED362C5-8719-4202-9EEC-230044977507_jpe-2464273.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56774/1BCDD1FE-B28D-4DC6-83A5-833728CC2FB3_jpe-2464276.JPG I like the concept of keeping the stock light, but it seems someone could take that even farther. Same injection molding materials, but in a Druganov open stock design. Fattest part would be the buffer/cheek weld part. I put one of those fiber injected Druganov style stocks on my 10-22 and love it. .223/5.56 is light recoil anyway. Length of pull and shoulder padding could be handled with additiinal rubber pads on the butt end. In an AR style stock this could be molded in a fairly simple injection mold die design. It would only require a single core pull (for the buffer void). |
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Quoted: The A1 doesn't have A1 length of pull. It's got AR-15 R601 length of pull! That puts the development in 1959 or 1960. Unless you're Disney, patents don't last that long. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am guessing since patents haven't came up in their discussion the patent may have been abandoned(fees weren't paid) or the patent is expired or a large part of it was/is. Manufacturing processes and procedures along with blueprints would absolutely be part of an IP lawsuit if that information was held by gwacs and was not transferred to another party without a contract or paper/email trail stating the authorized use of this IP. It was in the video and its in the filing documents KE Arms posted in this thread earlier. Nealon did not patent any of the cav arms mk 2 stuff. In fact, he freely shared everything (files, drawings, blueprints, etc) with the public, in part to bolster faith in a polymer lower. In the early 2000s, people were not sold on the idea of injection molded AR lowers. Hell, you apparently could even walk in off the street and eat pizza and help run the injection molding machines with them. I wish I'd known about all this. I'd have made a trip to hang out with them and make plastic fantastics. So not only were none of the "innovations" of cav arms mk 2 patented... nothing about it was patentable in the opinion of its designer. And if it wasn't patentable then, before the design was freely shared with public, it is definitely not patentable now. And its even worse in that they're trying to assert that they (GWACS) own the intellectual property rights to the A1 length of pull and a trap door buttstock. At least, this is my understanding of the claims/counter from the videos and documents I have seen. I am not a lawyer but it sure seems like "law-fare" to me. The A1 doesn't have A1 length of pull. It's got AR-15 R601 length of pull! That puts the development in 1959 or 1960. Unless you're Disney, patents don't last that long. |
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Quoted: Pretty ridiculous for a rifle with a $120 barrel. Someone here added it all up and it came in about $1000, mostly because Faxon got real proud of their carbon fiber handguards recently. Quoted: Quoted: $1600 on Brownells. Pretty ridiculous for a rifle with a $120 barrel. Someone here added it all up and it came in about $1000, mostly because Faxon got real proud of their carbon fiber handguards recently. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Law Suit, KE Arms, Karl InRange TV, GWACS CAV arms molds Brownells (Page 4 of 5)
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