Posted: 8/17/2021 5:03:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: guns762][Edited]
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It’s that time again! For those wondering what happened to this thread.....someone forgot to make sure it didn't get archived.  I will try to recreate what was posted in the archived thread. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/F-22-Raptor-2021-2022-Student-Project-thread-Update-5-21-pg3-sections-cut-and-ready/5-2450198/ For the last nine years?, ARFCOM has been an essential part of the adventure my students' experience with the building of permanent large installation projects here at our high school. I know that this year and next will be no different, and our success will be attributable to the incredible help that so many of you provide. These projects have rejuvenated my teaching style, given students something they love coming to school for, and providing experiences that they truly value. Thank you all, again, for being such a great community. My Art classes will again work with CAD students, Welding students, Woodworking students, and Robotic students to try to create our next display. For those new to our adventures, roughly 60-80 students from grades 9-12 will work the entire school year to build from scratch a permanent 3D display in an area roughly 16’wide x 23'long x 20’high. Some students might only spend an hour working on this, some three weeks, and some might spend several hours every day the entire year. Our last three projects have ended up costing about $2500 each. The generosity in both funds, equipment, and advice in our previous years have made all the difference in being able to spend that much money on such a project. We will again have to have a t-shirt sale to celebrate the adventure and raise the funds needed. The fundraiser will be near the end of the project, so not for almost a year. Now for the important part. Our new subject will be the F-22 Raptor . There are many seniors that are just a little miffed at not being able to see this one through. They had to finish up the Mission To Mars display, cut short by Covid, and then build Liberty Ships to add to the U-boat display. The current display area has our 1/2 scale Sopwith Camel already displayed there. We will be moving it up ant towards the right wall. This will give us enough room for a 15.5' long x 11' wide Raptor. We will also be creating a WWII hanger/airfield scene in the background that will have 3D elements. Maybe a Spitfire coming out of the hanger? The display will be a tribute to evolution of fighter aircraft. I'm sure we will come up with more ideas to add as the display starts to come together. Feel free to share them in this thread. The brainstorming that ARFCOM contributes is one of the most important parts of this adventure.     The display area 16'x23'. If we don't put the Raptor on a knife edge, as was suggested at the end of the Uboat/Liberty ship thread, the students are standing at the outer points of the aircraft at 15.5'long x 11' wide.   I like the knife edge idea instead of simply inverted. I think we can create a bit more space this way, and allow for detailed internal stores. We want to try to produce the engine mach cones? We think we have an idea for how to do that based on the SpaceX rocket we built last year. We probably will use fiber optic bundles to do some of that. Some of our previous adventures. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/ALARM-U-Boat-Type-VIIC-2015-Liberty-Ship-Edward-Avila-Update5-4-pg71-ships-up-/5-1781084/    https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/-/5-2247089/?r=-1&page=1  https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/1-3rd-Scale-17ft-Marine-One-Helicopter-Project-ThreadUpdate-6-17pg54-magazine-article-/5-2133113/  https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/ALL-ABOARD-1-3rd-scale-Baldwin-4-4-0-Locomotive-Update-5-24pg29-The-End-is-here-Video-/5-2025503/    |
Some of the CAD work already going on. Students are slicing up the drawing, making internal frames, and a main beam 2x6 that we will be able to hang the jet from.    Our frame will consist of 1/2" plywood frames to produce the shape, and a 2x6 that will run the length of the airframe. Wings will be a bit interesting. They are very thin. Even on our 1/4 scale model, they will only be about 1" at their widest. that is what my CAD students are telling me. We will have to do something slightly different from what we did with the Space Shuttle. We will probably use 3/8" metal rod for rigidity in the wings. We are working on that right now. |
Yeah, yeah....blah....blah....blah, when are the t-shirts being offered, and we give you our money to help out?  
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Political Idiocracy - the belief that a wall to keep out people invading our country is wrong, but putting a wall around the Capitol to keep Americans out is reasonable.
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Quoted: For wings, you might look at kydex folded over a frame.... We will probably look at something similar to the Space Shuttle project. Just thinner. We've been working on the scale of the F-22 wing to fuselage. this is how that wing was constructed. The tail and doors are covered in the pen and ink board we use.    
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More student work in CAD. This shows the 2x6 main beam insertion.    Quoted: Sopwith Camel, Stagecoach, Viking boat and Dragon links missing. Found them all! 9 years?! Holy Toledo! https://farm1.staticflickr.com/584/20684213238_2288c73f3c_b.jpg Sopwith Camel thread https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5806/20251178923_00a58dc0ce_b.jpg Viking Ship https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5625/20879474071_5f843c0369_b.jpg Stagecoach thread https://farm1.staticflickr.com/731/20684374158_9f22b3d453_b.jpg Dragon Project Thank you for finding all of those. 
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1" is definitely seems too thin for the wing to me. It has been a long time since I was turning wrenches on F-22s, but I remember just the trailing edge of the leading edge flap being around 6" on the inboard side and tapering down to around 4". Leading edge flaps are in the full down position in this picture. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/54089/IMG_5032_JPG-1931638.JPG Note the AIM-9 in this picture and compare it to the LEF. AIM-9s are 5" in diameter. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/54089/040430-F-0000S-015_jpg-1931639.JPG Great pictures thank you! Those panel pics are perfect! As to the wing thickness, at 6 and 4", 1/4 scale would end up being what we are seeing in the CAD drawing we have. Tip of wind would be about 1" thick. I believe where the student cut the wing from the fuselage is not what would be called the "root". I think we are on the right track with the scale there. The curve will be the challenge. |
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Update 5/6 1st delivery of plywood showed up this morning. Three sheets of 1/2" 4x8 total $196.77 So I can keep track of the costs for people interested...... Total cost as of 5/6/21 $196.77 Student is placing the cross sections on the 4'x4' plywood. Once this is done, we should be able to start cutting out parts. Our tail fins will be cut off, but at least we will have the angles in place to work around.  |
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Update 5/9 Friday didn't see much slow down. We managed to get the 1/2 sheets of 1/2" on the table and the router cut out several cross sections of our F-22   Looks like we didn't get all of the labeled. That will need to get done quickly. I probably need to get us a 16 foot 2x4 delivered pretty soon next week. 
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Have you and the team given any thought to making anything articulate on the aircraft? There may be some options to scale available on the RC Jet parts market to incorporate into the project if there is some interest. That's an excellent question. We have not, but having the weapon bay doors open and close would be pretty amazing. We could copy much of the tech we used on the space shuttle. I'm going to need to discuss this with Robotics and see if they have an ambitious person who would take it on. Thanks for that idea! |
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Update 5/13 CAD is still cutting out shapes for us. We have these frames cut out so far. I was told the cockpit area and nose would be next, then the wings.   Going to be a fun time shaping that canopy. Got any ideas? Yeah, it's got me a bit worried, but hopefully we can make it work. I think we will probably make a mold and maybe try heating plexiglass to shape. That will be our first failure. From there I'm sure our imaginations will add more. I know the vacuum idea is probably the best idea, but I'm not sure we can make that work. |
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Update 5/19 Nose is ready to be cut out.   We have most of the other parts cut out. I think we may leave it stacked until fall. There seems to be enough going on right now to take up most of my remaining students time.  Kids thought it looked pretty cool up there......  Update 5/21 Students are a little thin the last few days. Seniors are gone now. Track and Soccer are both at State. We did get the nose pieces of our F22 all cut out. We now have all the sections ready for next year. I've got a Junior who is itching to get a long enough 2x6 here to start assembly, but we discussed that if we didn't get it all stabilized, that 2x6 would probably twist over the summer and leave us with a tweaked F22 frame. There are only 3 regular days left for students and 2 days of Finals.  Lots of students seem pretty excited when they see this sitting up there on the shelf. It's nice to say, well, make sure you have an Art class next year, and help us put it together.  |
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Quoted: Since it's been quite a few years' worth of projects now... How many kids have been able to benefit from having this on their college admission application, job resume or portfolio, etc.? I've had many come back and say that the projects, and the digital portfolios they create for a Final, have helped them get jobs. Not sure about the projects and college admissions. I don't think anyone has said that helped yet. Update 5/24 Hanger pieces are now cut out and waiting for Fall. These will help construct the WWII British airfield and hanger in the corner of the display. It is 8ft wide.  |
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Quoted: Since it's been quite a few years' worth of projects now... How many kids have been able to benefit from having this on their college admission application, job resume or portfolio, etc.? I have to address this question one more time.......cause.... well, there is this kid at home right now with me. He just graduated Summa Cum Laude, in Computer Engineering at U of WY. He was the only one in the entire college of Engineering. He also worked on the U-boat, creating the solar powered propellers, the Space Shuttle project, as chief Electrical Engineer-doors, and has acted as an SME for my current students over the last 4yrs. I asked him about the projects and his resume tonight. He said absolutely, he said has a whole page on his resume showing them off. His professors in college were impressed with them. He said he got both his internship at Rincon, and the job he starts in two weeks with Raytheon partly because of the projects. He said both interviewers were very impressed. He told me his fellow classmates were jealous of his resume, not because of his grades, but because of the projects he could show off. He's going to be making more money than me his first year down in AZ. This photo from 2017 makes me pretty proud of him.  Update 8/17 We are caught up.... mostly....  I've got a special update, later this week. Time is crazy right now. I apologize for not keeping the thread bumped. Last year was probably my most rewarding year I've had in my career, but I was ready to be out of here and spend some time with my son before he entered real life in AZ. Please keep the suggestions coming. We need ARFCOM's brainstorming to make this project turn out with the same success as past years. |
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These are the reason I'm still here. |
The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
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I saw an interesting video a few days ago, where a woman took some clear two part resin, and poured a layer, then she used like a sharpie to draw on it, then she poured a thin layer on top, and drew some more, and so on. The end result was a pretty damn realistic/3d dragon. Maybe yall could do that for the mach cones, or even the canopy if yall cant get the plexiglass to work out. Would be a bit on the heavy side, but its an idea. Also, loved your previous threads, if the schools I went to did that kind of stuff, it would've made school much better. Can't wait to see the end product. |
I suggest we trade a question mark in for a maybe.
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Originally Posted By Lay: I saw an interesting video a few days ago, where a woman took some clear two part resin, and poured a layer, then she used like a sharpie to draw on it, then she poured a thin layer on top, and drew some more, and so on. The end result was a pretty damn realistic/3d dragon. Maybe yall could do that for the mach cones, or even the canopy if yall cant get the plexiglass to work out. Would be a bit on the heavy side, but its an idea. Also, loved your previous threads, if the schools I went to did that kind of stuff, it would've made school much better. Can't wait to see the end product. I'd love to see an example, I was thinking of how we could do the mach cones just this afternoon. I'd also love to see a missile drop from the bay doors, then sling around in a loop....like a clothes line, and be picked back up and stowed in the bay.....but I'm not holding out hope forthat little piece of engineering. I told the Robotics teacher we weren't doing anything too crazy.....lol It could even just stop under the bay doors and be collected by them, just to be released again when they opened. Hmmm... just need a way to have the missile travel in a loop; program in a start/stop point under the bay door... |
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Originally Posted By guns762: I'd love to see an example, I was thinking of how we could do the mach cones just this afternoon. I'd also love to see a missile drop from the bay doors, then sling around in a loop....like a clothes line, and be picked back up and stowed in the bay.....but I'm not holding out hope forthat little piece of engineering. I told the Robotics teacher we weren't doing anything too crazy.....lol It could even just stop under the bay doors and be collected by them, just to be released again when they opened. Hmmm... just need a way to have the missile travel in a loop; program in a start/stop point under the bay door... I've had good luck heating acrylic (plexiglass) in an oven, and then forming it over a mold - it's really malleable when it is heated up. I used a two part compression mold because the application I had in mind required the final part to be precise; basically a mold with a void in the middle in the shape of the part you want to produce. The tricky part is heating the acrylic: a little too much heat and bubbles form in the acrylic, way too much heat and you have a puddle of acrylic, etc., etc. |
"When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout."
rca2222's wife: "bloody flippin hell, it's just a bunch of old men going on about their radios and their health problems"
rca2222's wife: "bloody flippin hell, it's just a bunch of old men going on about their radios and their health problems"
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Originally Posted By Ranxerox911: I've had good luck heating acrylic (plexiglass) in an oven, and then forming it over a mold - it's really malleable when it is heated up. I used a two part compression mold because the application I had in mind required the final part to be precise; basically a mold with a void in the middle in the shape of the part you want to produce. The tricky part is heating the acrylic: a little too much heat and bubbles form in the acrylic, way too much heat and you have a puddle of acrylic, etc., etc. The canopy has been giving me nightmares since we decided to do this project. Hopefully we can pull it off. |
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Originally Posted By brass: These are the reason I'm still here. |
“So, never give up. Continue to fight. You’ll either find a win here and there, or you’ll die fighting. I can accept either of those out comes”- March 31st, 2020 - Until Valhalla
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Originally Posted By guns762: I'd love to see an example, I was thinking of how we could do the mach cones just this afternoon. I'd also love to see a missile drop from the bay doors, then sling around in a loop....like a clothes line, and be picked back up and stowed in the bay.....but I'm not holding out hope forthat little piece of engineering. I told the Robotics teacher we weren't doing anything too crazy.....lol It could even just stop under the bay doors and be collected by them, just to be released again when they opened. Hmmm... just need a way to have the missile travel in a loop; program in a start/stop point under the bay door... Originally Posted By guns762: Originally Posted By Lay: I saw an interesting video a few days ago, where a woman took some clear two part resin, and poured a layer, then she used like a sharpie to draw on it, then she poured a thin layer on top, and drew some more, and so on. The end result was a pretty damn realistic/3d dragon. Maybe yall could do that for the mach cones, or even the canopy if yall cant get the plexiglass to work out. Would be a bit on the heavy side, but its an idea. Also, loved your previous threads, if the schools I went to did that kind of stuff, it would've made school much better. Can't wait to see the end product. I'd love to see an example, I was thinking of how we could do the mach cones just this afternoon. I'd also love to see a missile drop from the bay doors, then sling around in a loop....like a clothes line, and be picked back up and stowed in the bay.....but I'm not holding out hope forthat little piece of engineering. I told the Robotics teacher we weren't doing anything too crazy.....lol It could even just stop under the bay doors and be collected by them, just to be released again when they opened. Hmmm... just need a way to have the missile travel in a loop; program in a start/stop point under the bay door... Heres a video I found on youtube that shows it well.  Making Lifelike 3D Aquariums With Paint Cast In Resin As for getting it to travel in a loop, you could probably use a system similar to skylifts or roller coasters, use a thin cable or tubing for the track, and a small motor with two rubber wheels on it to provide motion. But, it may not be the most aesthetically pleasing thing unless you can hide the track from view. Or, if you want to keep it pleasing, don't have it do a loop, but instead just have it drop down, and move it forward. You could use a piece of tubing slightly longer than the length of the missile itself (or even use multiple pieces like a retractable antenna to give more distance), and use that as the track that will provide support for it to move forward, again using a small motor and rubber wheels, or some motion device like magnets, linear actuators, pulley system, etc. Depends on how much math/science you'd want to incorporate. I'll see if I can come up with some more ideas, sounds like a fun challenge to figure out a way to get it to work. |
