[ARCHIVED THREAD] - F-22 Raptor 2021-2022 Student Project thread-Update 5/21 pg3-sections cut and ready (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 5/5/2021 11:27:03 AM EDT
It’s that time again! Wait? What? It's spring! We decided with our current CAD teacher moving on to start a new career, we really needed to get this project underway before the end of this spring semester. Several students have already put many hours into the new display. Several more will start working on it very soon. They are getting the finishing touches on our Liberty ships right now.For the last nine years?, ARFCOM has been an essential part of the adventure my students' experience with the building of permanent large installation projects here at our high school. I know that this year and next will be no different, and our success will be attributable to the incredible help that so many of you provide. These projects have rejuvenated my teaching style, given students something they love coming to school for, and providing experiences that they truly value. Thank you all, again, for being such a great community.  My Art classes will again work with CAD students, Welding students, Woodworking students, and Robotic students to try to create our next display. For those new to our adventures, roughly 60-80 students from grades 9-12 will work the entire school year to build from scratch a permanent 3D display in an area roughly 16’wide x 23'long x 20’high. Some students might only spend an hour working on this, some three weeks, and some might spend several hours every day the entire year. Our last three projects have ended up costing about $2500 each. The generosity in both funds, equipment, and advice in our previous years have made all the difference in being able to spend that much money on such a project. We will again have to have a t-shirt sale to celebrate the adventure and raise the funds needed. The fundraiser will be near the end of the project, so not for almost a year. Now for the important part.  Our new subject will be the F-22 Raptor  . There are many seniors that are just a little miffed at not being able to see this one through. They had to finish up the Mission To Mars display, cut short by Covid, and then build Liberty Ships to add to the U-boat display. The current display area has our 1/2 scale Sopwith Camel already displayed there. We will be moving it up ant towards the right wall. This will give us enough room for a 15.5' long x 11' wide Raptor. We will also be creating a WWII hanger/airfield scene in the background that will have 3D elements. Maybe a Spitfire coming out of the hanger? The display will be a tribute to evolution of fighter aircraft. I'm sure we will come up with more ideas to add as the display starts to come together. Feel free to share them in this thread. The brainstorming that ARFCOM contributes is one of the most important parts of this adventure.     The display area 16'x23'. If we don't put the Raptor on a knife edge, as was suggested at the end of the Uboat/Liberty ship thread, the students are standing at the outer points of the aircraft at 15.5'long x 11' wide.   I like the knife edge idea instead of simply inverted. I think we can create a bit more space this way, and allow for detailed internal stores. We want to try to produce the engine mach cones? We think we have an idea for how to do that based on the SpaceX rocket we built last year. We probably will use fiber optic bundles to do some of that. Some of our previous adventures. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/ALARM-U-Boat-Type-VIIC-2015-Liberty-Ship-Edward-Avila-Update5-4-pg71-ships-up-/5-1781084/   https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/-/5-2247089/?r=-1&page=1  https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/1-3rd-Scale-17ft-Marine-One-Helicopter-Project-ThreadUpdate-6-17pg54-magazine-article-/5-2133113/  https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/ALL-ABOARD-1-3rd-scale-Baldwin-4-4-0-Locomotive-Update-5-24pg29-The-End-is-here-Video-/5-2025503/     |
Some of the CAD work already going on. Students are slicing up the drawing, making internal frames, and a main beam 2x6 that we will be able to hang the jet from.     Our frame will consist of 1/2" plywood frames to produce the shape, and a 2x6 that will run the length of the airframe. Wings will be a bit interesting. They are very thin. Even on our 1/4 scale model, they will only be about 1" at their widest. that is what my CAD students are telling me. We will have to do something slightly different from what we did with the Space Shuttle. We will probably use 3/8" metal rod for rigidity in the wings. We are working on that right now. |
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Quoted: Tell us more about dog the bounty hunter and the pot plants in the back The plants are something the Enviornmental Science teacher does. We will have to work around those. ......Or, work them into the project....an F-4 napalming(mural) them? We've joked about that. Probably wouldn't go over well. The "Dog" is actually a Viking. Those are ceramic portraits on display from a recent project in one of my beginning classes. |
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Quoted: In on one.....very cool project. Do you have access and/or the ability to work with alternative materials like composites or 3d printing? Robotics has some nice 3D printers that have come in handy the last few projects. The Woodshop has a shopbot that will be able to cut out our CAD designed frames for the airframe. |
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Quoted: It’s that time again! Wait? What? It's spring! We decided with our current CAD teacher moving on to start a new career, we really needed to get this project underway before the end of this spring semester. Several students have already put many hours into the new display. Several more will start working on it very soon. They are getting the finishing touches on our Liberty ships right now.For the last nine years?, ARFCOM has been an essential part of the adventure my students' experience with the building of permanent large installation projects here at our high school. I know that this year and next will be no different, and our success will be attributable to the incredible help that so many of you provide. These projects have rejuvenated my teaching style, given students something they love coming to school for, and providing experiences that they truly value. Thank you all, again, for being such a great community. My Art classes will again work with CAD students, Welding students, Woodworking students, and Robotic students to try to create our next display. For those new to our adventures, roughly 60-80 students from grades 9-12 will work the entire school year to build from scratch a permanent 3D display in an area roughly 16’wide x 23'long x 20’high. Some students might only spend an hour working on this, some three weeks, and some might spend several hours every day the entire year. Our last three projects have ended up costing about $2500 each. The generosity in both funds, equipment, and advice in our previous years have made all the difference in being able to spend that much money on such a project. We will again have to have a t-shirt sale to celebrate the adventure and raise the funds needed. The fundraiser will be near the end of the project, so not for almost a year. Now for the important part. Our new subject will be the F-22 Raptor . There are many seniors that are just a little miffed at not being able to see this one through. They had to finish up the Mission To Mars display, cut short by Covid, and then build Liberty Ships to add to the U-boat display. The current display area has our 1/2 scale Sopwith Camel already displayed there. We will be moving it up ant towards the right wall. This will give us enough room for a 15.5' long x 11' wide Raptor. We will also be creating a WWII hanger/airfield scene in the background that will have 3D elements. Maybe a Spitfire coming out of the hanger? The display will be a tribute to evolution of fighter aircraft. I'm sure we will come up with more ideas to add as the display starts to come together. Feel free to share them in this thread. The brainstorming that ARFCOM contributes is one of the most important parts of this adventure. https://i.imgur.com/MtGRTrX.jpg https://i.imgur.com/quZwTdQ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/9Pd0ZrZ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/00UT8CA.jpg The display area 16'x23'. If we don't put the Raptor on a knife edge, as was suggested at the end of the Uboat/Liberty ship thread, the students are standing at the outer points of the aircraft at 15.5'long x 11' wide. https://i.imgur.com/XjUpIrO.jpg https://i.imgur.com/mQNDh2Q.jpg I like the knife edge idea instead of simply inverted. I think we can create a bit more space this way, and allow for detailed internal stores. We want to try to produce the engine mach cones? We think we have an idea for how to do that based on the SpaceX rocket we built last year. We probably will use fiber optic bundles to do some of that. Some of our previous adventures. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/ALARM-U-Boat-Type-VIIC-2015-Liberty-Ship-Edward-Avila-Update5-4-pg71-ships-up-/5-1781084/ https://i.imgur.com/t1cEP07.jpg https://i.imgur.com/JfAQbPc.jpg https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/-/5-2247089/?r=-1&page=1 https://i.imgur.com/IIQMhZO.jpg https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/1-3rd-Scale-17ft-Marine-One-Helicopter-Project-ThreadUpdate-6-17pg54-magazine-article-/5-2133113/ https://i.imgur.com/LRVAHAP.jpg https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/ALL-ABOARD-1-3rd-scale-Baldwin-4-4-0-Locomotive-Update-5-24pg29-The-End-is-here-Video-/5-2025503/ https://i.imgur.com/c2mXIyc.jpg https://i.imgur.com/kHXXzba.jpg https://i.imgur.com/7sbwEk7.jpg @guns762 Where's the T shirt link?
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Quoted: It looks like you use the same area of the school for the displays. If that’s correct, it’s too bad there isn’t a place where they can all be displayed. What happens to the old displays? @BossMaverick There is multiple foyers in the school. It really is awesome.
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Quoted: It looks like you use the same area of the school for the displays. If that’s correct, it’s too bad there isn’t a place where they can all be displayed. What happens to the old displays? The displays have been getting upgraded and added to, as we have run out of areas. There are 8 pods(breakout areas) total. There is only one that just has things on the wall. We have a plan for that one next/next year.
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Quoted: Those are fantastic! Thank you! Saved. Quoted: Quoted: @guns762 https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48373913452_4d8bfb7ef3_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48400945987_19615bf150_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48401010996_87f765c35c_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48373376326_d7cf806d22_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/4251/35061414862_30764f4636_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48400357032_a092e46823_h.jpg Those are fantastic! Thank you! Saved. Hey, look. Rivets. |
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Quoted: Some of the CAD work already going on. Students are slicing up the drawing, making internal frames, and a main beam 2x6 that we will be able to hang the jet from. https://i.imgur.com/GVUo6EN.jpg https://i.imgur.com/nLN1ntB.jpg https://i.imgur.com/7ehL4qt.jpg https://i.imgur.com/VtLpgd7.jpg https://i.imgur.com/AuGJQE5.jpg Our frame will consist of 1/2" plywood frames to produce the shape, and a 2x6 that will run the length of the airframe. Wings will be a bit interesting. They are very thin. Even on our 1/4 scale model, they will only be about 1" at their widest. that is what my CAD students are telling me. We will have to do something slightly different from what we did with the Space Shuttle. We will probably use 3/8" metal rod for rigidity in the wings. We are working on that right now. The students need to look harder or for a different set of surfaces for the model. The wing root is not 4 inches thick full scale. Or, simply fatten up what they have now. A good arbitrary number to use would be a 12% thick airfoil at the root; that would be 12% of the root chord. There's no doubt that is not exact, but this is a stand off model so it doesn't matter. . |
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Quoted: Those are fantastic! Thank you! Saved. Quoted: Quoted: @guns762 https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48373913452_4d8bfb7ef3_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48400945987_19615bf150_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48401010996_87f765c35c_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48373376326_d7cf806d22_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/4251/35061414862_30764f4636_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48400357032_a092e46823_h.jpg Those are fantastic! Thank you! Saved. I'm in the middle of packing to move. But I will try to find the hard drives. I think I have a lot more pics that I haven't gotten to and posted. I may have some more good ones to post soon. 
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Quoted: Kinda where I was going, build a lightweight frame using something like EMT and wrap it in plastic polymer etc. Quoted: Quoted: For wings, you might look at kydex folded over a frame.... Kinda where I was going, build a lightweight frame using something like EMT and wrap it in plastic polymer etc. We use pen and ink drawing board for the skin. It is pretty light, allows easy modeling, even curves, and can be fixed quickly. I'll see if I can find pictures of the wing structure of the Space Shuttle. |
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Quoted: Hey, look. Rivets. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: @guns762 https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48373913452_4d8bfb7ef3_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48400945987_19615bf150_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48401010996_87f765c35c_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48373376326_d7cf806d22_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/4251/35061414862_30764f4636_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48400357032_a092e46823_h.jpg Those are fantastic! Thank you! Saved. Hey, look. Rivets. The full pics show they are actually phillips head screws. Rusty phillips head screws.
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Quoted: The students need to look harder or for a different set of surfaces for the model. The wing root is not 4 inches thick full scale. Or, simply fatten up what they have now. A good arbitrary number to use would be a 12% thick airfoil at the root; that would be 12% of the root chord. There's no doubt that is not exact, but this is a stand off model so it doesn't matter. . Thank you. I will let them know we need to look deeper into that. We can do a bit of scaling with some of the photos too. |
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Can I be in your class? What I love about what you're doing is that you're teaching them a hard skill, building stuff, while at the same time, the object that they're creating... whether it's a WWII sub or an F22, many of these students would've never known what an F22 was if it weren't for you... and maybe that leads them to a passion for this kinda stuff long-term, which itself could lead to a hobby or a career in aerospace or the military. |
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This is fresh from the factory. Pretty heavy handed on the image processing, though. Very heavy handed. The only day I we were ever permitted to bring a camera to the facility. It's hosted on the Arf media server, so compression is what it is. If you'd like a higher resolution version, just let me know. 
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By the way, if you want to talk about the evolution of aircraft, you might want to go with a P-51 Mustang over a Spitfire. Considering the Spitfire is a British plane and all. Or, if you want to anchor into modern aircraft, the P-35 Lightning, from which the F35 is partly named after, could be a nice tie in. There's also the F-4U Corsair or P-40 Warhawk that I think could be great options. Since the F22 is an Airforce jet that's air superiority, I'd nix the Corsair. |
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Quoted: Thank you. I will let them know we need to look deeper into that. We can do a bit of scaling with some of the photos too. Quoted: Quoted: The students need to look harder or for a different set of surfaces for the model. The wing root is not 4 inches thick full scale. Or, simply fatten up what they have now. A good arbitrary number to use would be a 12% thick airfoil at the root; that would be 12% of the root chord. There's no doubt that is not exact, but this is a stand off model so it doesn't matter. . Thank you. I will let them know we need to look deeper into that. We can do a bit of scaling with some of the photos too. ETA: If anyone has dimensions on how thick the wings are at different points, we'd very much appreciate that. 
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Quoted: Can I be in your class? What I love about what you're doing is that you're teaching them a hard skill, building stuff, while at the same time, the object that they're creating... whether it's a WWII sub or an F22, many of these students would've never known what an F22 was if it weren't for you... and maybe that leads them to a passion for this kinda stuff long-term, which itself could lead to a hobby or a career in aerospace or the military. Or taxidermy.
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Quoted: We use pen and ink drawing board for the skin. It is pretty light, allows easy modeling, even curves, and can be fixed quickly. I'll see if I can find pictures of the wing structure of the Space Shuttle. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: For wings, you might look at kydex folded over a frame.... Kinda where I was going, build a lightweight frame using something like EMT and wrap it in plastic polymer etc. We use pen and ink drawing board for the skin. It is pretty light, allows easy modeling, even curves, and can be fixed quickly. I'll see if I can find pictures of the wing structure of the Space Shuttle. Cool thanks....if you're going to do a timeline of fighters I'm going to lobby for an F14 somewhere but I'm biased. Quoted: @guns762 https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48373913452_4d8bfb7ef3_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48400945987_19615bf150_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48401010996_87f765c35c_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48373376326_d7cf806d22_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/4251/35061414862_30764f4636_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48400357032_a092e46823_h.jpg In that first pic, that plane looks like it got dunked in the ocean for a few weeks. Is that kind of rust normal? |