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Posted: 9/29/2008 9:18:44 AM EDT
| guys, can I use brake cleaner to degrease prior to using aluma hyde II? the tech at brownells said no because it leaves a residue and to use gun scrubber. |
Yes, hundreds before you can't be wrong. I'm a big fan of Brownells, in fact I've ordered about $250.00 worth of things from them this year. However, don't loose sight of the fact that they are in business to make money. For every guy that uses break cleaner, thats one less guy that will buy their product (gun scrubber) . . . . |
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chlorinated brake cleaner DOES leave behind a residue. i typically use carb cleaner for this reason <not to mention it's cheaper>. you just have to make damn sure any plastic peices are removed or impervious to the solvent or the carb cleaner WILL dissolve them. |
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Nothing withstands acetone. Mind the fumes. Carb cleaner is for removing carbon, particularly in hard to reach spots. It does leave a residue. Will remove most oil, but not all. Brake cleaner is for de-greasing/oil removal/cleaning prior to re-oiling. Doesn't do much about hardened carbon deposits, but will float away the loose stuff. Any or all of this stuff might be harmful to some or all non-metallic items, and even some finishes. Use with care, both for yourself and the item being worked-on. Acetone works every time. As an aside, if you are going to apply paint over parkerizing, you will definitely need to use acetone or some other very volatile solvent to leach the oil out of the parkerized finish. Three liberal applications is not too many. |
Alcohol is OK for some uses, de-oiling isn't one of them.Dunk and agitate small parts. Apply with lint-free rag on big items. Can use wooden brush with natural bristles, also. |
Ahhhhhh ..... it's a profit deal.  Not only is Brownells waaaay overpriced .... but they tend to lie allot. As the man says; the non-chlorinated brake cleaner is perfectly okay to use. You never want to use carb cleaner; it's not a de-greaser. Actually I mainly use MEK .... which is a bit expensive, but I only have to refinish the piece once. |
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The only problem with non-chlorinated brake cleaner (which is what the walmart brand is around my home) is that when it's humid outside, you'll get water condensation on the parts. If you air dry the water off, or bake in oven you should be good to coat with any product, as the brake cleaner that is non-chlorinated won't leave any residue. A strong ie high concentration alchohol ~ 90% or more would normally evaporate the water too, but as mentioned it isn't an effective degreaser. If you go the canned but not pressurized solvent route, I'd suggest laquer thinner - it's a stronger solvent than acetone, won't leave any residue but would be harder on plastic surfaces, I wouldn't use it to prep plastic before a duracoat or other paint application, but it would work extremely well on metal surfaces. |
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For those who haven't cleaned a carb in a few years, almost all comes with some oily based carbon remover. Because of this, brake cleaner is what most people use for brakes, carbs, and gunz. I recently painted one and used brake cleaner. It worked fine. Think about it, you can't afford to put residue or slippery stuff on brakes. 
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Why don't we stop all the guessing? Somebody post the complete break-down of a container of GunScrubber, and someone amongst us will probably know of a much cheaper alternative. I figure that, yes, Brownell's is in business to make as much money as possible, and nothing wrong with that. Brownell's sells AlumaHyde and AlumaHyde II painta (there is a BIG difference), and presumably knows that GunScrubber does the prep job properly. All we need to do is have the listing of the contents of GunScrubber, and we're off to the races. OTOH, between us we can figger out a cheaper, still-satisfactory way to accomplish the goal. |
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Why is there still guessing going on? Brake parts cleaner WORKS FINE, trust me. Geez. Why has this been beat in the ground over and over and over and over. Did many guns, mags, car parts, blah blah blah, and it does a great job.  Best part of brake cleaner is it gets in all the nooks and crannies that a rag/brush and whatever chemical you use cant reach. When it evaporates it leaves a clean dry finish with no film or residue. Carb and choke cleaner sucks. It makes the metal very cold and then it sweats.  THE END.  Maybe you all just like talking about it? haha. 
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| It works just fine. That's what I used to degrease my shotgun before I refinished it in Alumahyde. Just make sure it is non-chlorinated brake cleaner, as the kind with chlorine will leave a residue. But to be honest, you can hardly even find brake cleaner with chlorine in it. |
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Y'all using brakekleen or the like are maybe missing the point. Let's assume the stuff works as advertised, for the sake of discussion. You folks are paying a good bit of money for an aerosol can of solvent. Only a fraction of the can, by weight, is solvent (active ingredient), and the large part of the contents is propellant. Far cheaper to buy liquids by the gallon, and maybe better for your body/lungs/skin/environment. I agree that sometimes aerosol application is the way to go, but in practice, such instances are few. It is cheaper, and less wasteful to use mostly liquids. Pour the used liquids through a filter back into a secondary continer, and a surprising economy can be realized. Aerosols have their uses, but they are relatively expensive per unit of active ingredient delivered. |
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bs Mek and acetone evaporate extremely fast. Downside of recycling is that you use the product to remove the dirt, oil, and grease. Filtering does not remove oil and grease from the solution, and I am not going to spend hours blasting and prepping just to turn around and dump oily greasy solvent back on the gun, that is ignorant. With kg coatings the slightest oil blisters the finish when baking, causing one to re-blast and start over, a pain in the rear. Then factor in the cost of electric and wear and tear on the compressor/blaster, then the wasted gas/propane on the oven. All to save a few bucks, no thanks. I only use the 2.00 a can stuff from autozone, plus I have a commercial account so it is a little cheaper. In fact, it doesnt matter what kind of brake cleaner, as long as it in NON-CHLORINATED. I will stick with what works great for me and the outcome of my guns are proof positive. I dont mean to come across rude or anything, but the hobby of firearms, let alone refinishing, are no place for a penny pincher. Guns are like cars, if you want a 200 paint job, go to macco and get one, then you look at a 200 paint job, until it falls off.  If you want a nice paint job, spend a little more time and money and get better end results.  Some guys are happy with a 5.00 krylon job, not me.  You get what you pay for. |
You are correct that most filters will not remove dissolved oily residues, hence my reommendation for a secondary container for "filtered" solvents. They have uses, and ought not be wasted. OTOH, if you wish to waste your (and your costomer's) money on inefficient buisness practices and materials simply because it is easier for you, then that is your business. A skilled, environtmentally-conscious person would do things differently. But hey! Spray that stuff, and its' propellant where you will. I've done a bit of painting with various paints over the last 40 years, and I figger it's part of my job to not waste money, materials, or pollute the atmosphere in doing so. And if you didn't think you were being rude, then why did you apologize for being so? |
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First of all, I didnt want people to think I was trying to be rude. I never apologized, I never said I run a refinishing buisness, and noone here has ever seen anything I have re-finished, nor does anyone here know anything about me or what I do. Here is my point. Mek and acetone are like 20 bucks a gallon, no big savings there. I can spend 40 bucks on brake cleaner and clean alot. Mek and acetone are more flammable than brake cleaner. Mek and acetone are way worse on your skin, lungs, and brain cells than any brake cleaner, and anyone who says different is a liar. Who would want to keep pouring stuff back and forth,,,,,, messing with different containers,,,,, wondering what is clean and what is dirty,,,,, what needs filtered again,,,,and dont forget, the," oh crap I spilled some." I know my wife would love me to have all kinds of containers full of chemicals around the garage with the grandson running around. I would look like this guy---> HAhaIt is a free country and anyone can reuse their mixed up filtered contaminated stuff if they want to, and I will use my 2 cans of clean brake cleaner per rifle, 1 can per pistol, and insure perfection. Now letz me getz sumpin strait --- I am not some "joe the rag man" that just posts stuff here to cause trouble or arguements. I am a dedicated hobbyist who speaks from experience, what works for me, what produces GREAT results and try to pass on my good knowledge to others in need of GOOD advice. I can back up what I speak of with pictures, procedures, and intelligence. If anyone would like to see pictures of my setup, oven, blaster, airbrush, etc.... just ask. And since you all want to know what my stuff looks like, here ya go. 870 is finished in kgcoatings satin dark earth and satin black. I also included a pic of one of my yugo ak's I just got done with. It is done in kgcoatings gloss black and the wood stripped and re-stained minwax gunstock with 8 coats tung oil. I dont want to post too many pics as this isn't a picture forum.  By mufflerman1060, shot with Canon PowerShot S5 IS at 2008-10-10  By mufflerman1060, shot with Canon PowerShot S5 IS at 2008-10-10  By mufflerman1060, shot with Canon PowerShot S5 IS at 2008-10-10  By mufflerman1060, shot with Canon PowerShot S5 IS at 2008-10-10  By mufflerman1060, shot with Canon PowerShot S5 IS at 2008-10-10 I am not going to argue, re-using old contaminated chemicals is bad advice, and stockpiling containers of chemicals is bad news, and spare me with the enviroment arguement.  What type respirator do you use to prevent lead poisoning when you shoot? You walk to work or ride a bike? Must use a roll on deodorant? Just because I dont agree with your methods, DONT MAKE THIS PERSONAL. I own and have ran a 4 bay muffler shop here for 15 years. I have seen cars dumping brake fluid, transmission fluid, power steering fluid and oil out by the gallons. I have seen them burning oil, and pollution control systems that are dis-functional, and missing catalytic converters. There are numerous factories here, goodyear, firestone, bridgestone, and a rubbish facility to name a few that dump pollution out in unmeasureable amounts, yet our wonderful EPA, E-CHECK, and government does NOTHING. Akron, Ohio baby, look it up. Guess I should back off the brake cleaner.  |
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Why is this such a divisive issue? Use whatever you want to use. If you like break cleaner, then use it. Personally I use a product like this Why, because in my years of painting cars, that's what works. If you are going to do 1 or 2 projects in your life time, then maybe a spray can of break cleaner will be for you. If you do alot of refinishing products, this is the way to go in IMO. |
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My point exactly. I dont know why people are making a big deal out of this too. The topic is does brake cleaner work. It does, yippieee!! How many firearms can you do with a gallon of that stuff? Does it evaporate as quick as mek or other stuff?? Whats your procedure? Now I like the idea of that stuff.
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I think you would have to refinish in the hundreds of firearms to use an entire gallon of this stuff. A well saturated rag is usually enough to wipe an entire rifle down. A gallon is enough to wipe down more than 20 complete cars. I have the stuff for when I clean cars before painting, so it's something I have on hand. The better grade stuff has a pretty slow evap rate. Of course temperature/air flow plays a large part. It evaporates fast enough that it isn't a problem if it gets in tight spots, but not so fast that you can't wipe back over it with a dry rag. |
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wow, thats impressive. is it something similar or along the lines of lacquer thinner? what i like most about brake cleaner is i can spray in the nooks and crannies and blast away anything thats hiding, and not get stoned on the fumes.  ak mags are a pain because the way the mags are made and seamed, it is tough to get the cosmoline out completely, even using the straws that come on the brake cleaner. I end up having to bake them at like 450 degrees, re-blast the stuff that oozes out and dries, then repeat a few times before spraying. |
No it's nowhere near as aggressive as lacquer thinner. I forget what the actual make up of the stuff is. It is supposed to be a blend of chemicals to help it produce the results it provides. I'll have to check and see what is listed on the stuff I use. |
Sounds like you might have a better mousetrap there, VA. How is this stuf on plastics and ezisting finishes typically found on firearms? |
We use this stuff to clean cars, and parts before painting. This includes the various plastic bumpers and other car parts you can find on cars today. The only stuff that I've seen this attack, are the primers that some new bumpers come sprayed with. This primer is designed to have paints bond with it, so chemicals will soften the primer up. I also can go and wipe it over basecoat paint that has dried for at least an hour. Note: If you have rifle that has a ton of cosmoline, or a lot of oil and grease, then a more aggressive solvent may be needed. The wax and grease remover is pre-paint cleaner. Normally we wash a car with soap and water before bringing the parts into the pain booth. Once dry, we mask the car for painting and then wipe it down with wax and grease remover. Tack with a tack rag and then paint. Firearms are just smaller versions so it makes it much easier to do.
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Your latter point about this stuff being excellent for final prep is telling. A good many firearms are stored with a coat of oil or the like, as opposed to cars which are not so kept. I think my suggestion for a fairly aggressive pre-paint oil/grease solvent, like acetone, is still worthwhile, given that many firearms, particularly those with a parkerized finish, may have oil literally soaked into the OEM coating. As mentioned above, it takes a couple or three applicaions to leech out all the oil from a parked finish. OTOH, if the metal is bare, your prep is probably better. Note that in the pix above, the firearms were originally blued, if I am not mistaken. Presumably the OEM finish was bead-blasted and then prepped before peinting. The pix show a very nice finish to the painted parts, to be sure. OTOH, on firearms with a parked finish, it is highly desirable to retain the parking if a high majority of it is still present. The reason for this being that a clean park finish is just about a perfect base to "grab" and hold paint applied over it. In such cases, given a good park base, aggressive, volatile cleaners will clean out the parking, and allow new paint to take a tight hold, giving an almost indestructible finish. All of this is to say that some of us are coming to this conversation from different angles. We all agree that prepping the base surface is essential to a good finished product, but we begin the discussion with different base surfaces at hand, different paints, and different final finishes as the end product. You, as an auto painter, are unlikely to rush out and buy gallons of acetone or brake-kleen to accomplish your task. Your objects to be painted are not covered in oil to begin with, so your chemicals and procedures work well for you. Likewise, given that most of my items to be painted are parked, I prefer to clean the original finish and competely de-oil with acetone. If I were to beadblast a, originally blued item, I'd still use acetone, as I have lots of it, and need nothing else to do the job properly. If I ran out of acetone, I'd use your stuff as a final prep with no reservations. As for brakekleen, I use it for smal, simple stuff mostly, and it de-oils just fine. Grease/cosmoline, maybe not so good. In that case, I begin the process with soaking the greased/cosmoed/complex part in some re-cycled acetone to lift off the vast majority of the crud, with a brushing now and then. Of course, such relatively small parts can be enclosed in a sealed container, so evap of the recycled solvent is minimal. Eventually the recycled acetone is so oiled-up that I dispose of it in a responsible manner. Brakekleen as a final prep? Hey, if it works for you, fine. No responsible, professional suggests doing so. I leave that sort of practice to those folks who refinish wooden AK stocks. YMMV. |
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Yeah, I order airbrush tips, needles, bottles, and parts from them all the time, I think I will pick up a gallon and see how it does. Thanks for the tip, VA. I'll check it out. The 870's, mossberg's, and ak's I have done were originally parkerized. I then blasted with aluminum oxide. Only novices that dont know anything would bead blast. Parkerizing is not needed AT ALL when using Kgcoatings. In fact, I use Kgcoatings K-PHOS which is better than parkerizing for bite before applying the actual finish. Whats wrong with refinishing wood stocks and handguards? I like ALL aspects of my firearms to be nice. Why would someone buy a new car and put old tires on it? Why do you keep taking cheap shots at a fellow enthusiast? Just because I said your method is bs? IT IS. Too much work, too hazzardous and too risky to the finish. The title of this thread is about brake cleaner working. YOU ADMITTED you use it your self, so get over it. Being the amateur that I am, here is a photo of a cheap tec-22 I refinished. It is done with electro nickle plating and then polished. What do you all think? I also threaded the barrel on a lathe, installed the phantom brake and hogue grip. I can do nickle, chrome, and gold but I am not into all that flash and glitz that much. Attention: To be politically correct and not take the credit, the mag is not chrome, it is the finish tactical solutions does, which is like a brushed aluminum.  By mufflerman1060, shot with Canon PowerShot S5 IS at 2008-10-12  By mufflerman1060, shot with Canon PowerShot S5 IS at 2008-10-12 |
I am so very sorry to have offended you. Apparently my decades-long personal trial-and-error experiences have been for nought. All I have learned is nothing. Everything I have tried to take from this thread is of no value, and all my input is worthless. I am less than dust, and bow before your blazing magnificence. |
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I am not offended by anything you have said. I know I am talented in the firearms hobby, not only in re-finishing but gunsmithing as well compared to alot of other folks in the hobby. Does this give me a big head, no. Do I expect people to bow down to me as your smart mouth comments reflect? No. I am open to opinions, suggestions, and techniques that will improve my knowledge and the outcome of my projects. If I see something I feel to be bs, I will call the person on it, and not because I am rude, just simply because I might know of better, safer, cleaner ways, and love seeing people succeed in their goals. For some odd reason you seem to express in your smug, smart mouth way, that you, your methods, and your knowledge are superior to everyone elses and the first person who doesnt agree with you is wrong and beneath you. You like to take cheap shots and belittle people. Is this something people would expect from a senior staff member? My way or the highway??? I doubt it. This time you thought you were dealing with some little punk kid/newbie that knows nothing when in fact you couldnt be more wrong. You talk yourself up as if you are the firearm god almighty, when in fact, there is no halo nor crown around your head. These are not my personal opinions, anyone reading this can see it. I guess your attitude needs work too. It also might be the senior staff title went to your head?? I don't know, but its sad. I, myself dont buy into titles. This country is ran by seniors, and look at its condition. hahaIn fact, I am done with this retarded arguement, I would rather be shooting, or dumping dirty, oily, contaminated, whatever it is on my guns. No pun intended, haha. |
I thought this forum was for serious gun enthusiasts... Edited VA-Gunnut |
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