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Posted: 10/22/2004 6:08:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 6:12:44 AM EST by FNMI_Rifleman]
I've listed as many gun companies I can think of right now.
So who do you refuse to buy firearms from, and more importantly, why?
Company policy is what I'm getting at, but workmanship applies as well.

Edited to add: I could only put so many on, but these were the ones I hear people say the most they will never buy again for one reason or another. If you have one not on the list, please share!
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:08:33 PM EST
I must be missing something....why have some people stopped buying from Glock?

Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:18:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By Msokol13:
I must be missing something....why have some people stopped buying from Glock?





also wondering why
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:28:03 PM EST
It's a personal thing for me, I just don't like Glock.
*dons flame retardant suit*
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:34:36 PM EST
I had boycotted S&W over their dealings with H.U.D., but, they were bought by an American investor group some time ago, the Brits are gone.

Before all that, I had bought a 909 and a 457.

I am now the proud owner of a shiney new 686 (got it in time to take it to GunStock!!)

*I selected S&W from the poll, but no longer boycott any firearms company.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:35:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By Msokol13:
I must be missing something....why have some people stopped buying from Glock?




Tupperware envy???
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:38:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By Msokol13:
I must be missing something....why have some people stopped buying from Glock?





I never started buying from Glock so they are the easiest to boycott
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:45:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 6:48:46 PM EST by Msokol13]
I can understand someone hating Ruger. IIRC they refuse to make high capacity magazines for their 10/22's and folding stock's for their mini-14's or something like that and also they right all kinds of stupid stuff on their firearms. Example would be (read instruction because you might shoot yourself and try and sue us).

I look at Glock as making an affordable handgun that gets the job done with one of the toughest frames and finishes around. Also, for people who dont rely/like manual safeties Glock has made one of the safest handguns around.


jealousy is not a good reason to hate a manufacturer if there is anyone out there that lame.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:46:12 PM EST
I boycott Glock due to their poor design. I had one, hated it, sold it off.

Flame on Glockheads!

I used to boycott S&W, but now I don't buy from them because I just don't want anything they sell.

You forgot to put Bushmaster up on that list. (NOW WE'LL REALLLY SEE SOME FLAMES!!!)
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:48:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 6:49:10 PM EST by cmjohnson]
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:50:52 PM EST
Ruger for their politics, past or present I dont' forget. Colt for their current sales policy.

H&K, it's not so much a boycott as a I can't afford it.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:51:03 PM EST
E-bay suspended my account indefenitly because I tried to sell a Bushmaster AR-15 carry handle. I mentioned that it was made for an AR-15 and they booted me off. That's fine, they will get the first bullet from me when the SHTF.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:51:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Leatherman. (The CEO gave corporate endorsement to John Kerry, so F.O., dirtbag!)
CJ



Yeah, a big +1 on Leatheman. I boycotted them too.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:53:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 6:54:43 PM EST by HardShell]
F. None of the above

I own at least one of all of the above & would buy any again tomorrow (I'm going to a gun show tomorrow, so I very well may...). I spend my boycotting efforts on gun-grabbers, liberals, Democrats, and the French - not members of the industry that enables my addiction hobby...

(... even though they make mistakes sometimes. Cast the first stone and all that... )
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 8:29:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:

Originally Posted By Msokol13:
I must be missing something....why have some people stopped buying from Glock?





also wondering why




Today computers can do just that. A computer can't make the ultimate call, but they can narrow the work down to a point where manual examination is feasible. ATF is now making this computer technology available to police authorities around the country through the National Integrated Ballistics Identification Network (NIBIN). This network is a joint effort between ATF and the FBI to provide the latest technology to our state and local partners. Under this arrangement ATF will be responsible for the ballistics technology and the FBI will provide the computer network that will join the state and local systems together. Currently this provides a valuable tool for law enforcement authorities that will allow us to associate a suspect or a firearm with seemingly unrelated crimes. The future of this technology offers even greater potential. ATF is currently conducting a pilot project with Glock, wherein they will capture digital image a test fire shell casing for handgun they manufacture. That image will be associated with the serial number of the firearm in a computer database. Later if a shell casing is recovered at a crime scene it could be compared against the Glock database. This comparison could lead to the identification of the exact weapon that fired the round. Without ever recovering a firearm ATF could then trace the weapon used in the crime.



www.atf.gov/press/speech/fy00/040700ggdsymposium.htm

Yet, no one can come up with DOCUMENTED evidence of what Bill Ruger was ALLEGED to have done.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 8:36:33 AM EST
I don't boycott any of these gun makers. I have several of their products.

Chris
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 8:41:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 8:42:04 AM EST by Digitalpunk]
:
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 1:01:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 1:11:20 PM EST
Heinz!
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:44:37 PM EST
My dad has boycotted Colt for years.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 4:25:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 12:59:20 PM EST by BobCole]
I boycott Ruger because Bill fucking Ruger caved in to the antis on the 10rd mag cap & the rest is history. His blathering about the unwashed masses not needing more than 10rds REALLY fucking pissed me off! I will never buy a Red Label or Vaquero unless its used so Ruger won't get MY money.

Glock jumped on the anti bandwagon also about 1-2 years ago. Their high-up VP of bullshitting came out infavor of ballastic fingerprinting (IIRC). Glock, in attempting to cover their teflon ass, fired the guy & hired him immediately as an independent consultant. So not only does Glock think their buyers are dumber than shit, they're not to be trusted either.

Colt is run by idiots, prime example of their dropping all of their .380 models & in general making handguns at the rate of about 1 a month.

S&W screwed us but infact it was done by their English owners, their employees had NO say in the matter. So after the English assholes sold S&W, I immediately bought a SW99 in .45acp.

H&K? I don't quite know why they would be boycotted. Their customer service treated me (a nobody to them) wonderfully.

Feel free to fill me in on anything I've left out or are incorrect on.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 4:42:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 4:43:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 8:58:43 PM EST by RAMBOSKY]
Boycotted my ex wife.

Never saw a Ruger product that I wanted to buy.

The only S&W model I own is a Chiefs Special Model 36, 2", .38spl that I bought in 1970 as a backup gun when I joined the DC Police Dept.

I own two Glocks because I don't have to worry about them not working when I need them to.

I would love to buy an HK but don't have the money right now.

Link Posted: 10/24/2004 4:54:18 PM EST
Cox Cable
AT&T
Sprint
& Fat Chicks
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 5:38:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By BobCole:
I boycott Ruger because Bill fucking Ruger caved in to the antis on the 10rd mag cap & the rest is history. His blathering about the unwashed masses not needing more than 10rds REALLY fucking pissed me off! I will never buy a Red Label or Vaquero unless its used so Ruger won't get MY money.
Undocumented hearsay. Where is your proof?
Glock jumped on the anti bandwagon also about 1-2 years ago. Their high-up VP of bullshitting came out infavor of ballastic fingerprinting (IIRC). Glock, in attempting to cover their teflon ass, fired the guy & hired him immediately as an independent consultant. So not only does Glock think their buyers are dumber than shot, they're not to be trusted either. Agreed and documented.

Colt is run by idiots, prime example of their dropping all of their .380 models & in general making handguns at the rate of about 1 a month.

S&W screwed us but infact it was done by their English owners, their employees had NO say in the matter. So after the English assholes sold S&W, I immediately bought a SW99 in .45acp.
So, even though they have made no effort to have the agreement nullified, you immediately buy from them. It has to annulled by a judge, period. You forgive them yet condemn Bill Ruger, who admitted he made a mistake by trying to compromise with the antis (not the 10 round bullshit), donated a million dollars to the NRA, and spent the rest of his life fighting them.
H&K? I don't quite know why they would be boycotted. Their customer service treated me (a nobody to them) wonderfully.No problem with HK.

Feel free to fill me in on anything I've left out or are incorrect on.

Link Posted: 10/24/2004 5:39:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 5:40:58 PM EST by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By obershutze916:
Colt, needed custoner service once and they were assholes.

S&W & Ruger. For the regular reasons, plus I think they make shit.



What S&W did is documented. Where is your documentation on Ruger? I notice you didn't mention Glock.

Never owned an S&W, so can't comment on their product. As for Ruger, what products do you have personal experience with?
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 6:22:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By raf:
Interesting that S&W and Glock, who have arguably undermined the Second Amendment are boycotted less than some other companies whose internal company policy decisions have not affected the law in any way.
Some of you folks need to get your heads right.



I boycott Colt because they're products are over priced for what you get. I buy a firearm to potentially defend my life and will buy whatever one fits my needs regardless what the companies politics are.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 2:14:23 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 1:02:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Undocumented hearsay. Where is your proof?
Numerous gun rags quoted Bill fucking Ruger. Did they all lie?


Glock jumped on the anti bandwagon also about 1-2 years ago. Their high-up VP of bullshitting came out infavor of ballastic fingerprinting (IIRC). Glock, in attempting to cover their teflon ass, fired the guy & hired him immediately as an independent consultant. So not only does Glock think their buyers are dumber than shot, they're not to be trusted either. Agreed and documented.

So, even though they have made no effort to have the agreement nullified, you immediately buy from them. It has to annulled by a judge, period. You forgive them yet condemn Bill Ruger, who admitted he made a mistake by trying to compromise with the antis (not the 10 round bullshit), donated a million dollars to the NRA, and spent the rest of his life fighting them.
Show me where any judge has the power to nullify a Govt agreement? And yes, I DO condemn Bill fucking Ruger.



Link Posted: 10/25/2004 7:07:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Undocumented hearsay. Where is your proof?
Numerous gun rags quoted Bill fucking Ruger. Did they all lie?

That is not documented evidence, like a HUD agreement and the BATFE website. All the "numerous" gun rags quote Neal Knox, who for a long time has had personal axe to grind with Bill Ruger.


Glock jumped on the anti bandwagon also about 1-2 years ago. Their high-up VP of bullshitting came out infavor of ballastic fingerprinting (IIRC). Glock, in attempting to cover their teflon ass, fired the guy & hired him immediately as an independent consultant. So not only does Glock think their buyers are dumber than shot, they're not to be trusted either. Agreed and documented.

So, even though they have made no effort to have the agreement nullified, you immediately buy from them. It has to annulled by a judge, period. You forgive them yet condemn Bill Ruger, who admitted he made a mistake by trying to compromise with the antis (not the 10 round bullshit), donated a million dollars to the NRA, and spent the rest of his life fighting them.
Show me where any judge has the power to nullify a Govt agreement? And yes, I DO condemn Bill fucking Ruger.







AGREEMENT BETWEEN SMITH & WESSON AND
THE DEPARTMENTS OF THE TREASURY AND HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT,
LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND STATES
SUMMARY OF TERMS
Preamble: The city, state, county and federal parties agree to dismiss the parties from the pending suits and refrain from filing suits against the manufacturer parties based on an equivalent cause of action.
SAFETY AND DESIGN
All handguns must meet the following safety and design standards:
• Second "hidden" serial number, to prevent criminals from obliterating serial numbers.
• External locking device sold with all guns within 60 days.
• Internal locking device on all guns within 24 months.
• Smart Guns -- Authorized User Technology.
o Manufacturers commit 2% of annual firearms revenues to the development of authorized user technology.
o Within 36 months, authorized user technology will be included in all new firearm models, with the exception of curios and collectors’ firearms.
o If top eight manufacturers agree, authorized user technology will be included in all new firearms.
• Child Safety. Within 12 months, handguns will be designed so they cannot be readily operated by a child under 6.
• Performance test. All firearms will be subject to a performance test to ensure safety and quality.
• Drop test. All firearms will be subject to a test to ensure they do not fire when dropped.
All pistols must meet the following additional requirements:
• Safety device. Positive manually operated safety device.
• Magazine disconnectors must be available on all pistols to customers who desire the feature, within 12 months.
• Chamber load indicators on all pistols, showing whether the pistol is loaded, within 12 months.
• Large capacity magazines. New firearm designs will not be able to accept large-capacity magazines that were manufactured prior to September 1994. (Manufacture of such magazines has been prohibited since that date.)
Law enforcement and military exception. If law enforcement agencies or the military certify the need, exceptions to these requirements may be made. Manufacturers will ask that these guns not be resold to the civilian market.
Warnings about safe storage and handling included with all firearms within six months.
Illegal firearms. Manufacturers will not sell firearms that can readily be converted into fully automatic weapons or that are resistant to fingerprints.

SALES AND DISTRIBUTION
Code of Conduct. The manufacturers will sell only to authorized dealers and distributors and allow their authorized distributors to sell only to authorized dealers. Authorized dealers and distributors will agree to a code of conduct. If manufacturers receive notice of a violation by an authorized dealer or distributor, they will take action against the dealer or distributor, including termination of sales to the dealer or distributor. The Oversight Commission will review such actions and have authority to require termination or suspension if warranted.
The code of conduct will require authorized dealers and distributors to:
• Gun shows: make no gun show sales unless all sales at the gun show are completed only after a background check.
• Brady checks: wait as long as necessary for a completed Brady check showing that the purchaser is not a felon or otherwise prohibited before selling a gun to the purchaser.
• Safety training for purchasers: transfer firearms only to individuals who have passed certified safety course or exam and demonstrate to purchasers how to use all safety devices and how to load, unload, and safely store the firearm before completing the sale.
• Multiple handgun sales: all purchasers of multiple handguns to take only one handgun from the store on the day of sale, at which point a multiple sales report will be filed with ATF. The remainder of the guns can only be collected after 14 days.
• Employee training: require all employees to attend ATF-approved training and to pass a exam on firearms laws, straw purchasers, illegal trafficking indicators, and gun safety.
• Insurance: carry liability insurance where available, with a minimum coverage of $1 million for each incident.
• Inventory control: maintain an electronic inventory tracking plan within 24 months
• Security: implement a security plan for securing firearms.
• Child access: require persons under 18 to be accompanied by adults in gun stores or gun sections of stores.
• Weapons attractive to criminals: not sell large capacity magazines or semiautomatic assault weapons.
• Compliance: provide law enforcement, government regulators, and the Oversight Commission established in this Agreement with access to documents necessary to determine compliance; cooperate fully in the Agreement’s Oversight mechanism.
• Crime gun traces: maintain an electronic record of all ATF trace requests and report trace requests to manufacturers.
• Indicted dealers: forgo firearms sales to licensed dealers known to be under indictment.
• Straw purchasers: not to make sales to straw purchasers.
Manufacturer commitments. Manufacturers will:
• Provide quarterly sales data to ATF.
• Not market guns in any manner designed to appeal to juveniles or criminals.
• Refrain from selling any modified/sporterized semi-automatic pistol of type that cannot be imported into U.S.
• Reaffirm policy of not placing advertisements in vicinity of schools, high crime zones, and public housing.
• Implement a security plan for securing firearms.
• Designate an officer to ensure compliance with the Agreement.
Corporate responsibility for crime gun traces. If an authorized dealer or distributor has a disproportionate number of crime guns traced to it within three years of sale, the manufacturers will take action, including possible termination or suspension, against the dealer or distributor. The Oversight Commission will review such actions and have authority to require termination or suspension if warranted.
Oversight Commission will be established and empowered to oversee implementation of the Agreement. The Commission will have five members selected as follows: one by manufacturers; two by city and county parties; one by state parties; one by ATF. The Commission’s powers will include the authority to review compliance with the design and safety requirements, review the safety and training program for dealer and distributor employees, review manufacturer actions against dealers or distributors that violate the Agreement or have a disproportionate number of crime gun traces, and require suspension or termination if warranted.
Role of ATF. To the extent consistent with law, ATF will work with manufacturers and the Oversight Commission to assist them in meeting obligations under the Agreement. ATF will notify the Oversight Commission of certain violations of the Agreement by distributors and dealers if it uncovers such violations.
Ballistics Imaging. Within six months, if technologically available, manufacturers will fire all firearms before sale and will enter the digital image of the casings in a system compatible with the National Integrated Ballistics Identification Network and accessible to ATF. This will enable law enforcement to trace crime guns when only the bullets or casings are recovered.
Access 2000. Manufacturers shall participate in ATF’s Access 2000 program, which establishes electronic links with ATF and enables high-speed tracing of crime guns.
Legislation. The parties will work together to support legislative efforts to reduce firearm misuse and the development of authorized user technology.
Education trust fund. Upon resolution of all current city, state, and county lawsuits, manufacturers will dedicate 1% of overall firearms revenues to an education trust fund.
Most favored entity. If other manufacturers enter agreements with more expansive design and distribution reforms, and those manufacturers, along with the manufacturer parties to this Agreement, account for fifty percent or more of United States handgun sales, the manufacturer parties to this Agreement will agree to abide by the same reforms.
Enforcement. The Agreement will be entered into and enforceable as a court order and as a contract.



Read the last line. It is a court order and the ONLY way if can be vacated is by a Federal judge, period. They have made no attempt to do so, even while their best chance is now. If Skerry gets in, he can enforce the agreement that the Bush administration has declined to enforce.

If you condemn Bill Ruger, it is because of the rantings of one writer, Neal Knox. You don't have the facts and they have been posted many times, not just by me, but by others as well.

I just gave you a documented FACT about S&W, yet you will buy them and condemn Bill Ruger based on hearsay.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 7:14:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By obershutze916:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By obershutze916:
Colt, needed custoner service once and they were assholes.

S&W & Ruger. For the regular reasons, plus I think they make shit.



What S&W did is documented. Where is your documentation on Ruger? I notice you didn't mention Glock.

Never owned an S&W, so can't comment on their product. As for Ruger, what products do you have personal experience with?





I have a mini-14 that I couldn't hit the planet Earth with. Recoil from the .223 seams worse than my Muasers that I can shoot all day with no problem. IMO, it is a horible design. I had a P-89,90 & 91. I think those are the right designations, the 9mm, .40S&W, and the .45acp pistol. Got great deals on them. First pistols I ever dumped.

I hate the designes and the overly high price on their bolt rifles. I have shot a few that others have had. Lets just say that I build my own Mauser sporters that are far better than the Rugers.

Now, based on that, along with the sneaking suspicion that Bill ruger did sell us out on the AW bill (the mini-14 is the same as many others on the bill, but got left of the list, over sight my ass)

I would say that I have ample reason to have formed a negative opinion of the company.

As for Glock, I used one in the military. I spent a few days visiting the factory. I think they make superior products. Combine that wth a nationalistic bias towards them, and that they are a foreign company and must deal with hostile US laws. I got no problem with them.



So, you have no problem with them jumping in bed with the BATFE on ballistic fingerprinting.



Today computers can do just that. A computer can't make the ultimate call, but they can narrow the work down to a point where manual examination is feasible. ATF is now making this computer technology available to police authorities around the country through the National Integrated Ballistics Identification Network (NIBIN). This network is a joint effort between ATF and the FBI to provide the latest technology to our state and local partners. Under this arrangement ATF will be responsible for the ballistics technology and the FBI will provide the computer network that will join the state and local systems together. Currently this provides a valuable tool for law enforcement authorities that will allow us to associate a suspect or a firearm with seemingly unrelated crimes. The future of this technology offers even greater potential. ATF is currently conducting a pilot project with Glock, wherein they will capture digital image a test fire shell casing for handgun they manufacture. That image will be associated with the serial number of the firearm in a computer database. Later if a shell casing is recovered at a crime scene it could be compared against the Glock database. This comparison could lead to the identification of the exact weapon that fired the round. Without ever recovering a firearm ATF could then trace the weapon used in the crime.



www.atf.gov/press/speech/fy00/040700ggdsymposium.htm

What hypocrisy. Because you like Glock, you will overlook their bullshit, huh?

BTW, what military did you use a Glock in?

What you say about the P89, P90, and P91 is nonsense and nothing but biased bullshit. The Rugers have performed at least as well as the Glock in every state police test I have read, where they were testing them for their own use. Of course, the HK USP and the Sigs outperformed both of them, but not by much.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 10:55:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By mkgunz:
H&K, it's not so much a boycott as a I can't afford it.



+1
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 2:04:23 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 5:17:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 5:26:38 AM EST
Glock.


tupperware is for storing food, not killing food.
Ergonomics suck.
"limp wristing" my ass
shitty trigger pull



and then there's that whole fingerprinting thing.....
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 12:01:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By TeuffelHunden1775:
Heinz!



Hell yeah!!!
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 12:25:40 PM EST
K-Mart
Leatherman
TCI cable
Schnucks (for a few years)
Hallmark

Will add more when I remember them.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 2:41:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2004 2:43:26 PM EST by I-M-A-WMD]
Not a damn one here.

Boycotting a firearms manufacturer is like Boycotting the RKBA. Go ahead, slit your own throat at will.

There was a time I was very upset with some firearms manufacturers' policies, but that wouldn't necessarily negate me from picking up their merchandise.... Might cause a delay in my pruchase and a lengthy look at their competitors offerings; I would willfully protest and give the Co an earful for their misguided efforts, but I certainly lose if any manfucturer closes shop. It's not like we have a wave of new gun companies springing up. They are a limited growth resource, not necessarily an "aggressive renewable resource"... One of these days, I just might need what someone else was so eager to Boycott. <----- ETA, I have no idea what this emoticon means.

Sly
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 2:47:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
If you condemn Bill Ruger, it is because of the rantings of one writer, Neal Knox. You don't have the facts and they have been posted many times, not just by me, but by others as well.
I just gave you a documented FACT about S&W, yet you will buy them and condemn Bill Ruger based on hearsay.



No, I condemn Bill fucking Ruger for what HE did, not what one man wrote. Believe it or not, I don't really care.

As for S&W, the owners who went into that agreement no longer own the company. The Ruger family STILL own theirs, yes?

Are those factual enough for you, sir?
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 6:06:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
If you condemn Bill Ruger, it is because of the rantings of one writer, Neal Knox. You don't have the facts and they have been posted many times, not just by me, but by others as well.
I just gave you a documented FACT about S&W, yet you will buy them and condemn Bill Ruger based on hearsay.



No, I condemn Bill fucking Ruger for what HE did, not what one man wrote. Believe it or not, I don't really care.

As for S&W, the owners who went into that agreement no longer own the company. The Ruger family STILL own theirs, yes?

Are those factual enough for you, sir?



How do YOU know what he did?

It doesn't matter who owns S&W, the agreement still remains.

Yes, the Ruger family still owns Sturm Ruger and I am still waiting for proof of what you say he did.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 6:08:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2004 6:10:10 PM EST by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By obershutze916:
Larry, I have no problem with Glocks' deal with the devil because the technology has been proven to not work.

I served in the Bundesheer from 1989-1992. We called it the P-80, but it was a Glock 17.



Oh, that really makes it okay, because the technology doesn't work? We all knew that already, so did Glock, but they jumped right in there with them. It is defacto registration and that is the point of the entire push for it, technology notwithstanding. Your hypocrisy grows deeper.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 2:26:11 PM EST
I have a pre94 Colt because the price was right in 1998 for me - but I my sell the lower eventually for a new lower - its already got mostly Bushmaster parts on it

I don't buy HK because they are overpriced and overrated IMHO
I don't buy Glock cause I just dont like polymer guns - pistols or rifles
Ruger sold us out in 1994 and hasnt changed their politically correct policy
I guess Smith and Wesson is better - I will likely buy from them in the future

I am primarily a Sig Sauer, Bushmaster, FAL kinda guy anyway
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 2:32:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
How do YOU know what he did?

It doesn't matter who owns S&W, the agreement still remains.

Yes, the Ruger family still owns Sturm Ruger and I am still waiting for proof of what you say he did.



Bill fucking Ruger was quoted sayng "Civilians don't need more than 10rd mags." I have neither the desire nor the time to hunt down the quote. In fact, I think American Rifleman gave vague reference to this in their "salute" to him a while back but they certainly didn't repeat his quote.

And yes, to me it DOES matter who owns S&W. No disagreement that the so-called agreement is still in place. If you loathed your bro-in-law & you divorced & remarried, do you tranfer this loathing to your new bro-in-law? Certainly not.

Feel free to call Ruger & ask THEM what Bill fucking Ruger said, I'm sure they'll be happy to tell you right quick.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 2:34:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By J_Smith:
I don't buy HK because they are overpriced and overrated IMHO
Not quite the same as a boycott, no?

I am primarily a Sig Sauer, Bushmaster, FAL kinda guy anyway
I see very little difference, if any, between Sig prices & H&K prices.


Link Posted: 10/27/2004 2:35:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 4:08:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 4:14:01 PM EST by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
How do YOU know what he did?

It doesn't matter who owns S&W, the agreement still remains.

Yes, the Ruger family still owns Sturm Ruger and I am still waiting for proof of what you say he did.



Bill fucking Ruger was quoted sayng "Civilians don't need more than 10rd mags." I have neither the desire nor the time to hunt down the quote. In fact, I think American Rifleman gave vague reference to this in their "salute" to him a while back but they certainly didn't repeat his quote.

And yes, to me it DOES matter who owns S&W. No disagreement that the so-called agreement is still in place. If you loathed your bro-in-law & you divorced & remarried, do you tranfer this loathing to your new bro-in-law? Certainly not.

Feel free to call Ruger & ask THEM what Bill fucking Ruger said, I'm sure they'll be happy to tell you right quick.



Quoted by whom? Still see no evidence, no proof. You make allegations, but have "neither the desire nor the time" to substantiate them. Could that be because they don't exist?

The new owners have taken no steps to have the agreement nullified, so they must be in concert with the contents of that document. If they wait, a Democrat administration down the road will enforce it. Now is the time, under the current administration, to get it done.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 4:11:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By obershutze916:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By obershutze916:
Larry, I have no problem with Glocks' deal with the devil because the technology has been proven to not work.

I served in the Bundesheer from 1989-1992. We called it the P-80, but it was a Glock 17.



Oh, that really makes it okay, because the technology doesn't work? We all knew that already, so did Glock, but they jumped right in there with them. It is defacto registration and that is the point of the entire push for it, technology notwithstanding. Your hypocrisy grows deeper.



I really have no idea why you choose to attack me over this. Go over to the Glock forum and attack every one there. I could argue this forever, but really see no point.

I have my reasons, you have yours. I really don't care what you think, and vice versa. I have my Glock that I hardly ever shoot alog with my other pistols that I rarely shoot. I am happy with the way they sit in my safe taking up room.

You have your opinion, I have mine, that is the way it is going to be.



Mine is not an opinion. I have documented their collaboration, yet you choose to ignore their shenanigans because you like them.

My reasons are well documented as mentioned. Are yours?

I don't care to go to the Glock forums, just like I don't go to any S&W forums, but when the subject is broached on a board that I frequent, you better believe that I will point out the treachery by Glock.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 4:17:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 4:36:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 4:37:54 PM EST by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By obershutze916:
I was trying to be nice and end it there. Now you are just trolling. This is not a debate, it is a personal attack at this point.

I am done with you. I really could care less about you or anything you say at this point.


Troll away............



Nope, not trolling. You calling me a troll, that's a laugh.

In other words you have no defense for your overlooking Glock's actions.

I did not attack you, but your glossing over what Glock has done is not to be ignored.

You are correct, it is not a debate, not when one side presents facts and the other side ignores them and whines about alleged personal attacks that don't exist.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:23:41 PM EST
I said HK. They are way over priced anti-american fucks!!!
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 3:13:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Quoted by whom? Still see no evidence, no proof. You make allegations, but have "neither the desire nor the time" to substantiate them. Could that be because they don't exist?
Bill fucking Ruger was quoted by numerous gun rags. You prefer to not believe it, fine. I, however, read it & remember it.


The new owners have taken no steps to have the agreement nullified, so they must be in concert with the contents of that document.
If you can read their mind, prove it. Otherwise, it could be a hundred different reasons. Given today's political climate they may be waiting to see who wins the election?

If they wait, a Democrat administration down the road will enforce it. Now is the time, under the current administration, to get it done.
This, we agree on. We both know it would be hard politically to do so under Bush's first term, yes?


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