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Posted: 8/19/2015 7:14:04 PM EST
Hi every one,
Iam looking to get into progressive reloading. Right now Midway is doing a sale on the Ap for 399 +the 500 free bullets. What iam looking for is to load 9 mm for uspsa. I go through about 100 rounds a week.
thanks for any input.
Link Posted: 8/19/2015 7:54:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2015 8:06:18 PM EST by Fbuckshot]
It's the only press I've owned, so I don't have any way to compare to others. However, it well made and easy to use. Got it when I was loading for my wife, my son, and myself when we were shooting 2 competitions a month plus several practice sessions. Over the last 7 years I've loading tens of thousand of rounds in 12 calibers. Had a few parts break due to ignorance and wear, but they were replaced free by Hornady. The auto eject is a little hit or miss especially with small caliber handgun rounds, but I can live with that.

Hornady has outstanding customer service and tech support. I recommend the press and the company. Their "Get Loaded" program use to send you free reloading bullets on purchase of presses and dies. Not sure what's going on now. Get one.

Edit for more input. Once I've got the dies set and the auto powder drop adjust, I load about 100 rounds of pistol ammo in 13 to 17 minutes. Check my powder weight about every 10 rounds. Also, highly recommend you get the "Powder Cop" die for safety/assurance.
Link Posted: 8/19/2015 8:02:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Fbuckshot:
It's the only press I've owned, so I don't have any way to compare to others. However, it well made and easy to use. Got it when I was loading for my wife, my son, and myself when we were shooting 2 competitions a month plus several practice sessions. Over the last 7 years I've loading tens of thousand of rounds in 12 calibers. Had a few parts break due to ignorance and wear, but they were replaced free by Hornady. The auto eject is a little hit or miss especially with small caliber handgun rounds, but I can live with that.

Hornady has outstanding customer service and tech support. I recommend the press and the company. Their "Get Loaded" program use to send you free reloading bullets on purchase of presses and dies. Not sure what's going on now. Get one.
View Quote

^^^What he said^^^
But you'll find yourself doing a lot more than 100 a week,

More like 200 an hour. Get extra primer pick up tubes, good investment.
Link Posted: 8/19/2015 9:11:31 PM EST
I bought my LnL AP about a year ago and it's been great.

It's cheap to add additional calibers and runs fine once you get it set up and adjusted. (None of these complex progressives run right out of the box.)

Fbuckshot cautioned about a potentially troublesome auto-eject feature, but I believe that Hornady changed the design since he bought his and I've had no problems with that feature from the get-go.
Link Posted: 8/19/2015 11:54:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 12:42:52 AM EST
I am really happy with my AP. It doesn't mangle my precious 25-20 brass like my Dillon 550B did. I can highly recommend getting an inline fabrication lighting kit for your press. Just keep the loading plate area clean (I keep a small brush handy), and you're golden. I also found that crimping an egg shaped fishing weight on the primer tube rod eliminated primer tube jams.
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 2:17:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2015 2:21:45 AM EST by Dano523]
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 3:01:21 AM EST
I had mine for a year or two now.. I pretty much use it only for pistol calibers, and most of that is 9mm. I use their dies, and I added the powder through expander for .355. Setup at first took a couple hours, but since then It has been pretty much trouble free. I keep it clean, I usually pull every 25th or so and verify the charge.
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 5:58:28 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dano523:
Save yourself the headaches and just get a 650 if you just have to have a progressive press.
Note: As for a progressive press and only shooting around 100 rounds a week, hate to say it, but if you have other calibers that you are reloading for with such low round counts as well, may be better off staying on a single stage press and lot phase loading instead. Don't get me wrong, since a good running progressive machine should be able to kick out more that 600 rounds a hour, but for the light reloading you are doing, really over kill on a progressive machine instead.

As for the low down on the LnL ap, as soon as you unbox it, tear is completely down to individual parts.
Why the reason for such, you have a lot of deburing to start with, and even some moding as well.

Go to page 5,
As for the LNL AP, it can be made in a great machine with work (which may void the warranty), but is it worth it when it and a 650 are the same price with case feeders instead?
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Wow, what a mess.

How long did you have your LnL AP before you sold it and got a Dillon?
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 8:02:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By Sgt_Savage2003:
Hi every one,
Iam looking to get into progressive reloading. Right now Midway is doing a sale on the Ap for 399 +the 500 free bullets. What iam looking for is to load 9 mm for uspsa. I go through about 100 rounds a week.
thanks for any input.
View Quote


It is a great press and will serve you well now and when you move up in volume.

With any progressive (red, blue, or green) you need to have some mechanical abilities to work through problem solving. Some more than others.
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 8:13:43 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dano523:
Save yourself the headaches and just get a 650 if you just have to have a progressive press.
Note: As for a progressive press and only shooting around 100 rounds a week, hate to say it, but if you have other calibers that you are reloading for with such low round counts as well, may be better off staying on a single stage press and lot phase loading instead. Don't get me wrong, since a good running progressive machine should be able to kick out more that 600 rounds a hour, but for the light reloading you are doing, really over kill on a progressive machine instead.





As for the low down on the LnL ap, as soon as you unbox it, tear is completely down to individual parts.
Why the reason for such, you have a lot of deburing to start with, and even some moding as well.

Go to page 5,
http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/manuals-current/metalic-reloading/LNL_AP.pdf

Starting with the index wheel and it's shaft, note that the shaft just rides through the bottom channel of the ram. No bearings, no replacement guide, and the larger the rod channel gets from where so there is more slop between the channel and rod from wear, the worse the timing of the pawns is going to go out of tune even faster. You can just de-bur the top and bottom of the ram channel for the rod, clean up the top of the wheel surface and call it good with some grease, but if you want the timing to hold for 10K rounds or better without adjustments, then it needs to be mod'd with a bearing guide system instead. Also to note here, since you can have wear between the linkage arms and through rods that will change the timing as well, linkage bearing mods there goes a long was as well.


Next work you way up to the hub and sub plate. Again, metal against metal ,and lets just say that the casted hub is not the best metal here either. So here, you can debur the bottom of the sub plate channel lip for the hub, clean up the bottom of the sub plate face that the hub will be bearing on, and clean up the hub bearing face to the bottom of the sub plate as starters and call it good. The better option since the bottom of the sub plate is flat, mill up a new Hub out of better metal and install at least a needle bearing between the hub and bottom plate instead (better option is to ball bearing drive the hub instead so you are not relying on the sub of the hub to the side of the channel for fit either).

Next on the sub plate, and lets just say that you have a lot of polishing to do to get it smooth and even to start with. On the old plates, they where a snap to true and polish out, and as for the new plates, since you will end up having to re-sharpen the EZ ejector from time to time to keep the shell ejecting cleanly, easier to just mill the tab out with a receiver channel and use a bolt in ejector tab insert instead. Also while you are polishing and milling the sub plate, take a good look at the end of the channel for the primer slider and notice that is has no debris relief in it to prevent build up from blocking the primer slide reaching full travel. So some light milling to add in a debris relief end of channel with through drain hole goes a long way here.

At this point, you are ready to install the ram back in the base, and depending on the path you took, if minimal, then you want to have Hornday send you the shim for the ram to sub plate if it did not come with one, and then pick up the shim kit for the hub to sub plate as well. The taper bolts draw the sub plate down on the top of the ram, and lets just say that without the shim between the two, going to end up with the sub plate wobbling on the top of the ram, even with the side bolts tight. On the hub, with shell plate in hand before you bolt the sub plate back down to the ram, shim the hub to sub plate to end up with around .002" clearance between the shell holder and the sub plate. As the hub wear over time, you will need to re-shim the sub plate, but the pack of shims comes with different thinness, so not the end of the world. And use a lock washer between the washer and the bolt so the bolt does not end up coming loose half way through a reloading session.


Now we get to the linkage arms, and lets just say that you better have washers handy to shim the linkage arms straight to each other.
Note, problems of the AP are fit and finish.

As for the primer feeder system, its a good design in theory, but missing some key features instead. Starting with the primer slider, you have have some polishing to do to start with. Next on the primer punches, make sure that they are flush to the bottom of the slider channel. Most of the time, a few strokes of a stone is all that is needed to clean the tops of if the punch rams are riding high. On the primer tubes, break out the lathe, since when the inner primer tubes are installed to the housing body, you want the bottom of the tubes flush with the top channel in the primer tube housing body. On the top of the Blast shield tube, thread it for new thread on top cap. One of the problems on the plastic top cap, it allows the inner tube to climb up the channel in the housing, and when this happens, you will start to flip primers. Also, with a new thread on top cap for the blast sheild, installing such items as Dillion low primer warning, and even coming up with a vibra primer filler using Lee pro primer plates and a Cell phone vibrator using the battery from the low primer warning system are a snap.


Now lets say that you decide to put a case feeder on the machine. There are many tweaks for the case feeder, but none really solve the problem. The problem is once the case is dropped to the sub plate, the V block is really just pushing on the top of the case, with nothing really guiding the bottom of the case rim into the shell holder instead. Bluntly, on the AP, the case feeder was a second thought, and not a well thought at that. Can it be made better, you bet, so long as you have a machine shop to start making parts. Simply the easy way here, just take a look at the 650 case feed system and skin the cat that way instead.

Bluntly, the RCBS pro 5 or Pro 7 is a better machine in theory since it solves the primer slide debris problems, and even a indexing system that will not have to be adjusted over and over again, but its not ready for prime time yet. The problem on the machine since it is using pretty much the same primer slider system as the AP, RCBS did not come up with a break away guide system for the machine. So when you have a problem with the primer slider stuck forward and you handle up, the system is designed to destroy the primer slider instead. Can such be fixed, you bet and it just a mater of installing a break away roller Guide system on that machine instead of what is on it now. As for the primer slider spring, don't know why RCBS went with a pull spring, since they use a rear slider guide that could double as a push spring type housing instead. Also with a break away guide system, you can chuck the plastic slider and come up with a brass one with roller instead.
Lastly here on the not ready for prime time , since RCBS has yet to release the case feed system for the Pro's, could end up being a huge flop like the Hornady case feeder system as well.

So the cons of the 650 that's ready out of the box, really boils down to some complaining on the cost of the caliber conversions, since both machine cost around the same money with case feeder to start with. Yes, the conversion kits are a little more, but if you take a look at what comes with the conversion kits (parts for the case feeder as well), then you start to realize, for what little money are you are paying for the added conversion costs, it pays dividends with the 650 running correctly at progressive reloading speeds instead.


As for the LNL AP, it can be made in a great machine with work (which may void the warranty), but is it worth it when it and a 650 are the same price with case feeders instead?
View Quote


IGNORE ALL THIS!!!

Get it out, set up, and then see if you have any problems.

This stuff here sounds like a Dillon Rep.

I've had Hornady LnL AP for 8 months now, took about an extra hour during set up

to get timing adjusted (because I didn't know what I was doing).

Have run well over 20,000 pistol rounds and 10,000 rifle rounds, flawless.
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 8:19:10 AM EST
OP, the LNL AP is on sale at Cabela's right now for $380, with $5 shipping. A lot of the Hornady dies and shell plates are on sale, as well.

I just ordered one myself. I'm coming from a Square Deal B, so hopefully the switch from blue to red will be relatively painless.
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 8:46:06 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LawVol:
OP, the LNL AP is on sale at Cabela's right now for $380, with $5 shipping. A lot of the Hornady dies and shell plates are on sale, as well.

I just ordered one myself. I'm coming from a Square Deal B, so hopefully the switch from blue to red will be relatively painless.
View Quote


I just pulled the trigger on one from Cabelas last night. Saved $50 by buying discounted cabelas gift cards too. Can't wait to enter the world of progressive reloading after 15 yrs behind a rock chucker.
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 8:52:53 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Milsurpninja:


I just pulled the trigger on one from Cabelas last night. Saved $50 by buying discounted cabelas gift cards too. Can't wait to enter the world of progressive reloading after 15 yrs behind a rock chucker.
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Originally Posted By Milsurpninja:
Originally Posted By LawVol:
OP, the LNL AP is on sale at Cabela's right now for $380, with $5 shipping. A lot of the Hornady dies and shell plates are on sale, as well.

I just ordered one myself. I'm coming from a Square Deal B, so hopefully the switch from blue to red will be relatively painless.


I just pulled the trigger on one from Cabelas last night. Saved $50 by buying discounted cabelas gift cards too. Can't wait to enter the world of progressive reloading after 15 yrs behind a rock chucker.


HA! I did the same thing with the gift cards. Made the deal even sweeter. I was relieved that it worked, considering all the reviews I read of people getting ripped off with buying discount gift cards.
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 8:55:54 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LawVol:


HA! I did the same thing with the gift cards. Made the deal even sweeter. I was relieved that it worked, considering all the reviews I read of people getting ripped off with buying discount gift cards.
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Originally Posted By LawVol:
Originally Posted By Milsurpninja:
Originally Posted By LawVol:
OP, the LNL AP is on sale at Cabela's right now for $380, with $5 shipping. A lot of the Hornady dies and shell plates are on sale, as well.

I just ordered one myself. I'm coming from a Square Deal B, so hopefully the switch from blue to red will be relatively painless.


I just pulled the trigger on one from Cabelas last night. Saved $50 by buying discounted cabelas gift cards too. Can't wait to enter the world of progressive reloading after 15 yrs behind a rock chucker.


HA! I did the same thing with the gift cards. Made the deal even sweeter. I was relieved that it worked, considering all the reviews I read of people getting ripped off with buying discount gift cards.


Haha! Great tightwads think alike. Worked like a charm.
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 11:04:14 AM EST
I pulled mine out of the box, set it up, went to loading immediately broke the autoprime link, little plastic thing they give you a spare of. Replaced it and carried on.

That was in December, rough guess would be 4k rounds loaded on it since. I don't have the time or money to load like some folks on here.

Anyway, it took a little adjusting of the pawls during the first 500 rounds to get it running flawless and hasn't required adjustment since.

The only time the primer system got fouled up I had dumped half a .223 charge of powder on the shell plate and just brushed off the big pile, wasn't good enough. That is the only time I had to take it apart to clean the powder out. The only other issue was the spring stud coming out of the primer shuttle, I epoxied it to avoid waiting for a new one.

Only mod: lockwasher on shellplate screw.

Seems like a decent press to me.
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 12:24:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2015 12:27:20 PM EST by RWEIII]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By johndm1967:


IGNORE ALL THIS!!!

Get it out, set up, and then see if you have any problems.

This stuff here sounds like a Dillon Rep.

I've had Hornady LnL AP for 8 months now, took about an extra hour during set up

to get timing adjusted (because I didn't know what I was doing).

Have run well over 20,000 pistol rounds and 10,000 rifle rounds, flawless.
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Originally Posted By johndm1967:
Originally Posted By Dano523:
Save yourself the headaches and just get a 650 blah, blah, blah, blah.................................................


IGNORE ALL THIS!!!

Get it out, set up, and then see if you have any problems.

This stuff here sounds like a Dillon Rep.

I've had Hornady LnL AP for 8 months now, took about an extra hour during set up

to get timing adjusted (because I didn't know what I was doing).

Have run well over 20,000 pistol rounds and 10,000 rifle rounds, flawless.



I agree 1,000%. I wont buy a Dillon just because of people like this...


..and there is no need because the LNL AP is a better press without the Kool-aid!
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 1:06:26 PM EST
It is $379 shipped on Amazon and you should still be able to get the bullets just an FYI.
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 1:10:59 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RWEIII:



I agree 1,000%. I wont buy a Dillon just because of people like this...


..and there is no need because the LNL AP is a better press without the Kool-aid!
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Originally Posted By RWEIII:
Originally Posted By johndm1967:
Originally Posted By Dano523:
Save yourself the headaches and just get a 650 blah, blah, blah, blah.................................................


IGNORE ALL THIS!!!

Get it out, set up, and then see if you have any problems.

This stuff here sounds like a Dillon Rep.

I've had Hornady LnL AP for 8 months now, took about an extra hour during set up

to get timing adjusted (because I didn't know what I was doing).

Have run well over 20,000 pistol rounds and 10,000 rifle rounds, flawless.



I agree 1,000%. I wont buy a Dillon just because of people like this...


..and there is no need because the LNL AP is a better press without the Kool-aid!


I don't know that you can really say that it is a better press than the XL650 as the are both good machines and the cost to change calibers is about the same when you consider all of the costs of the conversion.

I look at it as if you are primarily loading rifle then go LNL AP, however, if you are primarily loading handgun then go XL650.

Note: I have Dillon's but would get a LNL AP as well if I needed another press (I just stumbled into Dillon's when I was looking for cheap). I am actually getting kind of pissed off at Dillon right now because they won't reply to the e-mails that I have sent (for the last 10 days) even though they were responding to the same e-mail string earlier about a stuck bushing on my S1050. I don't want to call as I am asking for instructions and want them in writing so that I can go back later and review them.
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 1:38:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2015 1:39:37 PM EST by Mike_P]
I've owned both a 650 and an LnL AP. If it weren't for the shooting in my home and moving, I'd still own the 650 along with the LnL.

HOWEVER with that said, after owning both I'll just say this. They both have positives and negatives.

I absolutely loved the 650 for Pistol rounds. It was a tank. Unstoppable machine that could churn out ammo like nobodies business, but with rifle rounds it required a little tweeking. I have the items to load pistol rounds on my LnL but I don't. I keep it set up for rifle and to be honest, if I'm sharing my personal opinion, I sliiiiiightly feel like the LnL is a little nicer/smoother for rifle and the 650 was nicer for pistol.

Now that being my opinion, doesn't hold water for others. People load both rifle and pistol on both presses without issue. Both are quality machines that will get the job done.

I felt like the Dillon didn't require any tweeking and ran right from the box for pistol as I had said above. The LnL required a smidge of EASY adjusting for either pistol or rifle and then was good to go. You cannot go wrong with either set up, so don't let people sway you based on color or whatever other stupid thing comes up. It should just come down to research and deciding what you want or need in a press.
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 2:22:18 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dano523:
Save yourself the headaches and just get a 650 if you just have to have a progressive press.
/snip
View Quote




Anyway, I own a LnL and some of this is true, but its no where near as bad as what he makes it out to be. Every press will require some fiddly work to get it working correctly. Thats reality.

All in all, once you get the press cleaned up and put together, it takes about 15 minutes to check everything out.

First and easiest. Get a lock washer to the shell plate bolt. The bolt only needs to be tight enough to flatten the washer. No need for He-man tight on it.

Second, make sure your press timing is spot on. Find the videos by Bill Morgan on Youtube. Easiest explanation Ive seen. If the press timing is off, the press works for shite. This becomes even more important if/when you add a case and or bullet feeder.

Third, pull the primer slide out. Make sure its deburred, ramp the front lower edge slightly as this will make it more resistant to trash build up in the primer shuttle slot. After that, give it a light polishing with some very fine sandpaper, clean it, and put it back together.

Forth, uhh, no forth step. I just hit the one simple and two potential big issues.

I did get some shim washers from Hornady for my powder drop, it was getting loose while loading, and would pop up. These tightened it down nice. Case feeder took some fiddly nonsense to get it working. I bought the ergo handle from Inline Fab, saves my back and shoulder. Buy a light kit, the $12 one from Hornady is plenty good enough.

Link Posted: 8/20/2015 6:21:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2015 6:35:40 PM EST by Dano523]
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 8:05:19 PM EST
You'll want plenty of light. Hornady has their own LED lighting system for the LnL AP, but I have an older Inline Fabrication light and I've added more LEDs.

The press may be perfect out of the box, or maybe not. Follow the instructions VERY carefully. Fortunately they've improved their instructions since I got my LnL AP, so you won't have to spend as much time figuring things out as I did. Things to watch are aligning the primer Z-wire (it shoves the priming slide under the case), and making sure the shell plate is accurately timed. It probably won't hurt to polish the upper surface of the sub-plate, too.

With all the Dillon lust around, you'll still see plenty of people talking about issues with their Dillons doing this or that. Hornady's press isn't perfect, but neither is Dillon's. If you look at the two, the biggest differences are in how they move cases around and how they measure powder. What I like most about the Hornady press is that I can change out dies at will, and I can mix and match as needed to suit my task. Dillon's 650 has a tool plate that you set up ALL the dies in, which would mean I might need multiples of certain dies. And you are NOT going to get into a Dillon press that auto-indexes for $400. More like 2-3 time that for a 650 set up for one caliber.
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 10:06:23 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dryflash3:

Folks here generally like their LNL's.


Had a guy who couldn't get his to work correctly and was going to sell it.


The posters here got him up and running with his issues fixed. So don't be afraid to get help here if you need it.


The rest of us have Dillons. So now time for me to get out of this Hornady thread.
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By Sgt_Savage2003:
Hi every one,
Iam looking to get into progressive reloading. Right now Midway is doing a sale on the Ap for 399 +the 500 free bullets. What iam looking for is to load 9 mm for uspsa. I go through about 100 rounds a week.
thanks for any input.

Folks here generally like their LNL's.


Had a guy who couldn't get his to work correctly and was going to sell it.


The posters here got him up and running with his issues fixed. So don't be afraid to get help here if you need it.


The rest of us have Dillons. So now time for me to get out of this Hornady thread.


I was the guy Dryflash3 was referring to.

I bought an LnL to reload .223. I bought the press and had some issues out of the box priming. Then when I added the case feeder I had case tipping issues. I was so mad and frustrated I was ready to sell it cheap and buy a Dillon 650XL.

I can tell you this from my experience. Take your time and really know how to set up and adjust the press. That was my issue first with the priming system and secondly with the case feeder.

Yes I read all the threads I could find and did the shim per the tuning thread here. That turned out to be a complete waste of time. I removed the shim as it made no difference.

Here is what I learned. Once mounted learn how to properly setup the primer shuttle so that primer will consistently drop into the shuttle. Not a big deal but I did not pay attention to this and this was a major source of my priming aggravation. I also found that swaged primer pockets did not have a consistent feel when seating. I switched swagers and played with adjustments to no avail. I went with a reamer and that solved the feel issue. All the polishing and beveling tips online may or may not have been needed. I did them and still had trouble until I learned how to adjust the position of the drop tube in relation to the shuttle.

After I added the case feeder I had major issues. I was so mad I was ready to throw the whole rig in the scrap bin and buy the Dillon. I decided to really try and make it work. So I spent time watching "Highboys" video series on YouTube. The one that did it for me was the one on adjusting the pawls. . I watched the shellplate in the video and compared to mine. I then realized my plate was close but not perfect. Mine was notchy and jumped into position.

So I adjusted the pawls like in the video. I did the process a bunch of time 6 or 8 at least. I noticed the shellplate still seemed to jump instead of smoothly going to the next station like in the video. I then pushed the detent balls in the shellplate up so they would be less effective. Then I tweaked the pawls until I finally got it silky smooth like the video.

I then would screwup the pawls and do it over again. I wanted to be able to do it like second nature. Once I got the shellplate to advance perfectly from station to station I noticed the priming effort really was nice and smooth. Better than before.

Once I have the press dialed in I then decided to add the case feeder. Timing the case feeder shuttle is very important. I adjusted the z bar for the shuttle so it pushes the shell into the plate and the spring is compressed a little bit. I put some wax on the part that the case slides on. Then I added a piece of a thick heavy felt to the underside of the shuttle so when it pushes the .223 case the felt is just touching the rim which seemed to help. Here is the link to my thread.

I would say I spent probably 2 hours watching the videos and doing the pawl adjustment and case feeder adjustments. Now I have loaded several thousand rounds without any cases tipping. I had to flick maybe 3 or 4 as an assist. I did have one case with a damaged rim that slipped through and it would not go into the shellplate. I scrapped that but otherwise no tipped cases or problems.

What I learned from this is that I was so excited to get cranking out rounds that I did not spend enough time learning how to set it up and make sure all adjustments are perfect.
Link Posted: 8/20/2015 11:57:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/21/2015 3:30:06 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Dano523:

Still have my AP, but as stated, it took a lot of work to get it to run correctly at progressive loading speeds without jams every 100 round or less.
Truth me told, the next mod on the machine will be to make the sub plate a two piece design, so I can fine tune index the sub plate against the tool head. I though about just ob-longing the taper channels on the ram to allow rotation adjustment of the sub plate to the ram to fine tune, but since the ram is cast, too much of a chance of it snapping instead since the taper channels are being used to snug the plate down to the top of the ram as well (where the shim comes in place if your sub plate to ram has any movement.


The sole reason for telling the story of the problems on the AP and how to fix them, is unless you have the talent and time to get the machine running correctly and stay running correctly, it just not worth the effort (not when the 650 is the same price with case feeder, and runs correctly out of the box).

Trust me, you will see a lot of You tube video on AP "fixes", but take a good look at the reloading speeds that the guys are reloading at on the "fixed presses", much less getting through 100 rounds with a jam of some sort as well (case not ejecting correctly, case not feeding correctly, or having to break out the air compressor to blow the machine off every 100 rounds or less from build up in the primer slider channel that is causing priming problems.

Standard reloading pace on a 650 that would throw a stock AP press in to fits/jams even with standard light tweaks instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCOvG4fSnhA


As for drinking the cool aid, has nothing to do with being a Dillion fan. Its just that the Dillon 650 runs correctly out of the box at progressive speeds, and will stay running for a long, long time correctly instead. Myself, see the RCBS chucker pro as the better machine over a 650 with some mods for that class of reloader; once RCBS release the case feeder for the Pro press and its not a flop like the Hornady unit.

Downfalls of the 650, the powder hopper system should have been upgraded a long time again. Hence it's bad when a Lee powder hopper will throw a better charge. Also, the plastic index ring should have been upgraded to metal a long time ago as well. Granted that it will not snap if you have the shell plate adjust correctly, but being a plastic part on a machine designed to last a life time instead, the plastic will get brittle over time, and will end up snapping on it own (read make the index tab the part that breaks instead, since you can replace it without having to pull the sub plate). And lastly, the locator buttons, since how hard would it be to just come up with a 3 tab spring plate instead for all the gauges to use the button holes instead.

As for mods to be done to the RCBS Pro as it is now, break away primer slide guide system that does not turn the primer slider into the sacrificial lamb part, and maybe even installing a centering pin that is found on the 1050 to a new designed primer slider instead. Also, the aircraft nylon lock nut for the center shaft to hold the shell plate in place, first thing that will be chucked in the trash, and instead a split ring nut with side allen head tension screw with needle bearings top and bottom instead.

As for the downfall to the RCBS Pro 7 to put it up in the 1050 class of machines that you will not be able to mod past, it's abilities to primer pocket swaggering in a case trimming first pass phase. On the 1050, the tool head with case web support rod tool comes down to hold the case firmly down as the swagger tool comes up
On a machine with fixed head, the swaggering of the primer pocket as the handle is brought up like you are inserting a primer, would end up with bending the shell plate carrier instead.
Note, Hornady came out with a primer pocket swaggering tool set for the AP, but since the case is loaded upside down on the case plate posts to swagger the pocket on the up stroke, nothing else can be preformed when you are swagging pockets, and it pretty much faster and easier to just swagger the primer pockets on a super swagger than to use the Hornday AP swaggering system instead.
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Originally Posted By Dano523:
Originally Posted By Deltahawk:
Wow, what a mess.

How long did you have your LnL AP before you sold it and got a Dillon?

Still have my AP, but as stated, it took a lot of work to get it to run correctly at progressive loading speeds without jams every 100 round or less.
Truth me told, the next mod on the machine will be to make the sub plate a two piece design, so I can fine tune index the sub plate against the tool head. I though about just ob-longing the taper channels on the ram to allow rotation adjustment of the sub plate to the ram to fine tune, but since the ram is cast, too much of a chance of it snapping instead since the taper channels are being used to snug the plate down to the top of the ram as well (where the shim comes in place if your sub plate to ram has any movement.


The sole reason for telling the story of the problems on the AP and how to fix them, is unless you have the talent and time to get the machine running correctly and stay running correctly, it just not worth the effort (not when the 650 is the same price with case feeder, and runs correctly out of the box).

Trust me, you will see a lot of You tube video on AP "fixes", but take a good look at the reloading speeds that the guys are reloading at on the "fixed presses", much less getting through 100 rounds with a jam of some sort as well (case not ejecting correctly, case not feeding correctly, or having to break out the air compressor to blow the machine off every 100 rounds or less from build up in the primer slider channel that is causing priming problems.

Standard reloading pace on a 650 that would throw a stock AP press in to fits/jams even with standard light tweaks instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCOvG4fSnhA


As for drinking the cool aid, has nothing to do with being a Dillion fan. Its just that the Dillon 650 runs correctly out of the box at progressive speeds, and will stay running for a long, long time correctly instead. Myself, see the RCBS chucker pro as the better machine over a 650 with some mods for that class of reloader; once RCBS release the case feeder for the Pro press and its not a flop like the Hornady unit.

Downfalls of the 650, the powder hopper system should have been upgraded a long time again. Hence it's bad when a Lee powder hopper will throw a better charge. Also, the plastic index ring should have been upgraded to metal a long time ago as well. Granted that it will not snap if you have the shell plate adjust correctly, but being a plastic part on a machine designed to last a life time instead, the plastic will get brittle over time, and will end up snapping on it own (read make the index tab the part that breaks instead, since you can replace it without having to pull the sub plate). And lastly, the locator buttons, since how hard would it be to just come up with a 3 tab spring plate instead for all the gauges to use the button holes instead.

As for mods to be done to the RCBS Pro as it is now, break away primer slide guide system that does not turn the primer slider into the sacrificial lamb part, and maybe even installing a centering pin that is found on the 1050 to a new designed primer slider instead. Also, the aircraft nylon lock nut for the center shaft to hold the shell plate in place, first thing that will be chucked in the trash, and instead a split ring nut with side allen head tension screw with needle bearings top and bottom instead.

As for the downfall to the RCBS Pro 7 to put it up in the 1050 class of machines that you will not be able to mod past, it's abilities to primer pocket swaggering in a case trimming first pass phase. On the 1050, the tool head with case web support rod tool comes down to hold the case firmly down as the swagger tool comes up
On a machine with fixed head, the swaggering of the primer pocket as the handle is brought up like you are inserting a primer, would end up with bending the shell plate carrier instead.
Note, Hornady came out with a primer pocket swaggering tool set for the AP, but since the case is loaded upside down on the case plate posts to swagger the pocket on the up stroke, nothing else can be preformed when you are swagging pockets, and it pretty much faster and easier to just swagger the primer pockets on a super swagger than to use the Hornday AP swaggering system instead.



Don't forget that you should tell anyone considering a 650 to google 650 primer tube explosions. They seem to occur a little too often.
Link Posted: 8/21/2015 9:53:18 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TZ250:



Don't forget that you should tell anyone considering a 650 to google 650 primer tube explosions. They seem to occur a little too often.
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Originally Posted By TZ250:
Originally Posted By Dano523:
Originally Posted By Deltahawk:
Wow, what a mess.

How long did you have your LnL AP before you sold it and got a Dillon?

Still have my AP, but as stated, it took a lot of work to get it to run correctly at progressive loading speeds without jams every 100 round or less.
Truth me told, the next mod on the machine will be to make the sub plate a two piece design, so I can fine tune index the sub plate against the tool head. I though about just ob-longing the taper channels on the ram to allow rotation adjustment of the sub plate to the ram to fine tune, but since the ram is cast, too much of a chance of it snapping instead since the taper channels are being used to snug the plate down to the top of the ram as well (where the shim comes in place if your sub plate to ram has any movement.


The sole reason for telling the story of the problems on the AP and how to fix them, is unless you have the talent and time to get the machine running correctly and stay running correctly, it just not worth the effort (not when the 650 is the same price with case feeder, and runs correctly out of the box).

Trust me, you will see a lot of You tube video on AP "fixes", but take a good look at the reloading speeds that the guys are reloading at on the "fixed presses", much less getting through 100 rounds with a jam of some sort as well (case not ejecting correctly, case not feeding correctly, or having to break out the air compressor to blow the machine off every 100 rounds or less from build up in the primer slider channel that is causing priming problems.

Standard reloading pace on a 650 that would throw a stock AP press in to fits/jams even with standard light tweaks instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCOvG4fSnhA


As for drinking the cool aid, has nothing to do with being a Dillion fan. Its just that the Dillon 650 runs correctly out of the box at progressive speeds, and will stay running for a long, long time correctly instead. Myself, see the RCBS chucker pro as the better machine over a 650 with some mods for that class of reloader; once RCBS release the case feeder for the Pro press and its not a flop like the Hornady unit.

Downfalls of the 650, the powder hopper system should have been upgraded a long time again. Hence it's bad when a Lee powder hopper will throw a better charge. Also, the plastic index ring should have been upgraded to metal a long time ago as well. Granted that it will not snap if you have the shell plate adjust correctly, but being a plastic part on a machine designed to last a life time instead, the plastic will get brittle over time, and will end up snapping on it own (read make the index tab the part that breaks instead, since you can replace it without having to pull the sub plate). And lastly, the locator buttons, since how hard would it be to just come up with a 3 tab spring plate instead for all the gauges to use the button holes instead.

As for mods to be done to the RCBS Pro as it is now, break away primer slide guide system that does not turn the primer slider into the sacrificial lamb part, and maybe even installing a centering pin that is found on the 1050 to a new designed primer slider instead. Also, the aircraft nylon lock nut for the center shaft to hold the shell plate in place, first thing that will be chucked in the trash, and instead a split ring nut with side allen head tension screw with needle bearings top and bottom instead.

As for the downfall to the RCBS Pro 7 to put it up in the 1050 class of machines that you will not be able to mod past, it's abilities to primer pocket swaggering in a case trimming first pass phase. On the 1050, the tool head with case web support rod tool comes down to hold the case firmly down as the swagger tool comes up
On a machine with fixed head, the swaggering of the primer pocket as the handle is brought up like you are inserting a primer, would end up with bending the shell plate carrier instead.
Note, Hornady came out with a primer pocket swaggering tool set for the AP, but since the case is loaded upside down on the case plate posts to swagger the pocket on the up stroke, nothing else can be preformed when you are swagging pockets, and it pretty much faster and easier to just swagger the primer pockets on a super swagger than to use the Hornday AP swaggering system instead.



Don't forget that you should tell anyone considering a 650 to google 650 primer tube explosions. They seem to occur a little too often.


The primer explosions are one of the things I found when researching which press. I bought the LnL over the Dillon for a few reasons. None was cost. They both cast roughly the same when you get right down to it.

I just watched the video of the guy making 9mm rounds. Not sure how that pace would cause an AP press to have fits or jams. I go at a similar pace. Smooth motions is what I do. I may not go quite as fast but that is because I can't pick up and orient the bullet any faster than I do. If I had a bullet feeder I could go much faster but I am doing 500 rounds in like 30-45 mins. By then I am sick of pulling the handle and I do something else. Every 100 rounds I have to load primers. I usually hit the press with compressed air in case there is any accumulated dust or a few granules of powder. I top off the powder every 100 rounds too.
Link Posted: 8/22/2015 6:24:12 AM EST
Again, while very new to the LnL, this is similar to what I do. If I am going to load a bunch, I'll load the primer tube then refill the pickup tube just to have it handy. Every time I reload the primers I sprtiz with compressed air. Just a quick shot from a can. If you use a powder cop and flake powder you will have a few flakes on the shell plate after 100 rounds. Not sure what the big deal about that is.

I don't top off the powder every 100 but have only done pistol so far.

I like mine so far. It took me longer to figure out how I was going to mount it on the bench than any other part of setup. Followed the directions and it ran out of the box.
Link Posted: 8/22/2015 7:36:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/22/2015 7:38:34 AM EST by KeepTheChnge]
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Originally Posted By RWEIII:



I agree 1,000%. I wont buy a Dillon just because of people like this...


..and there is no need because the LNL AP is a better press without the Kool-aid!
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Originally Posted By RWEIII:
Originally Posted By johndm1967:
Originally Posted By Dano523:
Save yourself the headaches and just get a 650 blah, blah, blah, blah.................................................


IGNORE ALL THIS!!!

Get it out, set up, and then see if you have any problems.

This stuff here sounds like a Dillon Rep.

I've had Hornady LnL AP for 8 months now, took about an extra hour during set up

to get timing adjusted (because I didn't know what I was doing).

Have run well over 20,000 pistol rounds and 10,000 rifle rounds, flawless.



I agree 1,000%. I wont buy a Dillon just because of people like this...


..and there is no need because the LNL AP is a better press without the Kool-aid!


Another vote for the AP. No issues with mine and no tweaking to get it running. Its not as fragile as some make it appear.

Dillon has issues too, don't let anyone fool you. Are they nice? I am sure they are, but the AP is just as capable and for less.
Link Posted: 8/22/2015 8:01:12 AM EST
I just ran 300 rounds of 5.56 across my AP last night. Not a single problem. I plan on doing 3-500 rounds of .40 this morning.
Link Posted: 8/22/2015 11:30:12 PM EST
I've my LNL AP for years now and have loaded a lot of pistol and rifle ammo. I even loaded some rounds for my Grendel. For more precision and control, I purchased a Hornady single stage. Hornady makes some really good stuff in my book.

I read thread after thread before making my choice on a press. I didn't care about the cost or anything I just wanted a good press. I am glad I decided on the Hornady and would not give it up. Unlike a lot of the info I saw then and see now, my LNL AP came out of the box and has run just fine. No mods, no work (other than mounting the press). Maybe I am just the luckiest person around, but I don't seem to run into a lot of the issues with my reloading setup or rifles that seem to pop up for others.
Link Posted: 8/23/2015 9:54:20 AM EST
I am very happy with my press now. Out of the box mine was just a hair off. When I added the case feeder is when I really ran into problems.

The issue I had with priming was mine not the press. I was too anxious to get going that I did not pay attention to how to set the shuttle in relation to the tube and so I was not getting a primer 100% of the time. The other issue I had was the primer pocket crimp. Swaging them with an RCBS and then a Dillon tool was not giving me a consistent feel to primer seating. I switched to reaming and have had no issues since.

If anybody switching to Dillon wants to sell their setup I would love another AP for pistol rounds.
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 8:46:58 PM EST
Got my new AP mounted and set up over the past few days. Finally finished the setup tonight and cranked out 100 trouble free rounds of .45 acp. This thing is great! I went super slow and was still amazed with how fast this is compared to single stage. Can't wait to load more.
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