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Posted: 8/9/2020 9:52:02 AM EDT
Just picked up a 9mm carbine (16 inch barrel).
Curious if anyone ever has or does load 9mm specifically for a carbine?
I'm mainly thinking power choice and charge weight, not quite so much bullet choice. I have a mix of 9mm fmj bullets ranging from 115, 124, and some 147. (more 124 than anything)
Just wonder if there is a powder that can take advantage of the 16 inch barrel over the regular powder choices. And also curious if you came up with a load for the long barrel, how bad would it do in a standard pistol.
The carbine is roller delayed blowback if it matters.
Link Posted: 8/9/2020 10:29:01 AM EDT
I have in the past... I "ladder load" and test in that specific gun till I find its node just barely showing pressure signs.  Replicating Nato loads is also a place to start.

My go to powder for this is Power Pistol. Great accuracy and good speeds.
Link Posted: 8/9/2020 10:41:47 AM EDT
I don't own a 9mm carbine, but I'd look towards the slower burning powders, like BLUE DOT

that might give you higher velocities

sounds like a fun thing to explore

.
Link Posted: 8/9/2020 12:13:35 PM EDT
Started playing around in quickload. It listed power pistol at the top of the list for the most velocity. Never used any of it before. Accurate No 7 was 2nd in line. Never used it either. Both look like I should be able to get around 1500 fps.
Unique is not far down on the list. I have a couple pounds of that.
I have not done a ton of 9mm loading in the past. What I have loaded has been a mix of either W231 or unique.
Link Posted: 8/9/2020 2:26:32 PM EDT
I use #7 with 147gr Hi-tek coated bullet and get 1000fps from 4.7" barrel ( BHP ). Been shooting this combo for over 20 years. I've also shot these through friend's 9mm carbines in the past and they functioned fine. It was a long time ago and didn't chrono anything back then.

I've been waiting for a CMMG RDB barrel/bolt to come back in stock. Every time I get a notification, they are out of stock again by the time I see the email.

I have some Middle Eastern 158gr factory loads that a friend gave me because they were too hot for his pistols. Imagine they are UZI rounds. I'm dying to try them whenever I get a carbine setup.
Link Posted: 8/9/2020 2:50:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/9/2020 4:38:49 PM EDT
I shoot USPSA PCC division and 2x4 division in 3-Gun.

Generally, my load is a 124gr at 1,100fps.  However, there are times I have long shots or need power at 150-200 yards.  Then, it’s a 124 or 147 with max load of AA#7.

You’re still not picking up a lot of velocity with a 16” barrel.  The sweet spot is 10”-12”.  My race guns are 10” barrels with 6” of comp.
Link Posted: 8/9/2020 5:18:41 PM EDT
Mine feed from the same trough as my pistols.
Link Posted: 8/9/2020 5:40:43 PM EDT
like dryflash3 said.. What you have in your 9mm pistol loads..

I use true blue 5.6 grains over a 135gr blue bullet or 124gr X-Treme  rn or tcn no issues at all

Link Posted: 8/9/2020 9:32:52 PM EDT
The fun ones to shoot out of a carbine are the 380 95-100 grainers at 1500+fps.  I use a slower powder, just because I found a bunch and you can't double charge it.   The 16" barrel seems to add about 200fps pretty consistently.
Link Posted: 8/9/2020 11:32:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2020 7:49:25 AM EDT
I do have some berrys 90gr round nose bullets. I may try those as well.

Trying to decide between power pistol and AA No 7. Maybe I should just get a pound of both and see how they do.
Link Posted: 8/10/2020 8:20:59 AM EDT
I’m using 124gr FMJ round nose with 4.1 grains of Titegroup in all my handguns and PCC’s. So far they’ve run fine.
Link Posted: 8/10/2020 8:50:35 AM EDT
I’ve loaded some 9mm for a 16” carbine. I wanted to see how much faster the extra 12” of barrel added.

I used Power Pistol for my experiment and chronographed them thru a G17 and also a 16” PCC.
Using 124 FMJ with two different charges of Power Pistol I got the following results.

With 5.7 grains I got 1085 FPS in the Glock and 1395 FPS with the PCC.

5.9 grains yielded 1105 FPS in the Glock and 1420 FPS with the PCC.

So the extra 12” or so of barrel length gave an extra 300+ FPS. Power Pistol is definitely a good powder for longer barrels if you’re looking for some speed.
Link Posted: 8/10/2020 10:10:11 AM EDT
What about going the other way.  Can you keep a 9mm 147 grain subsonic or is the additional barrel length on a carbine going to make that difficult?
Link Posted: 8/10/2020 10:40:26 AM EDT
I have 2 or 3 different loads for 147s that are definitely subsonic out of a 16” barrel. I believe the key is to use faster powders for the subsonic loads.

I’ve used 700x, Unique and a shotgun powder by Rio. The Rio powder is CSB1 and showed up during the great powder shortage after Sandy Hook.

All of these powders gave me subsonic loads ranging from 825 FPS with 700x to 975 FPS using 4.0 grains of Unique. I could probably bump the Unique up closer to the Alliant  posted max of 4.3 grains.

The CSB1 load is the one I have used the most and it is very quiet on a suppressed 16” PCC. It’s great fun too shoot it at 100 yard steel plates. They is a perceptible delay between the quiet report from the gun and the clang if the steel.
Link Posted: 8/10/2020 4:44:50 PM EDT
Only thing I have to add is that some HOT pistol loads had issues with piercing primers in a 16” AR9.

Maybe anecdotal, but it seemed like I hit max pressure faster when doing ladders too
Link Posted: 8/10/2020 4:49:57 PM EDT
I load for several 9mm carbines. Keep it simple-the same loads that work in your pistol, will work in your carbine depending on your buffer/spring set up.

My simple load that works in everything well. 4.0 grains of WSF and the 147 FMJ of your choice.

AA#7 was made for the Uzi. Not my favorite powder but it will work well in longer barrels.
Link Posted: 8/11/2020 1:17:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2020 1:18:48 PM EDT by wildearp]
Use a Lee FCD to prevent bullet setback on the feed ramp.  Case wall thickness can vary, and Winchester cases were the ones I had an issue with.

Powder manufacturer max loads tend to be conservative.  Still a good idea to work up, but I am at max with Win 231 and 124gr projectiles.  I use Autocomp for 147 grain loads.

RMR bullets are some of the best.

I use a RRA Colt pattern 10.5" SBR with Metalform mags. Previously I used an Olympic Arms 9mm SBR with Sten mags.
Link Posted: 8/12/2020 9:57:25 PM EDT
be-86 would also be on my list. Burn rate between Unique and Power Pistol. I have a lb sitting around waiting for a date with some 124 gr Gold Dots. Lots of good choices listed.
Link Posted: 8/13/2020 2:07:34 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By billyhill:
be-86 would also be on my list. Burn rate between Unique and Power Pistol. I have a lb sitting around waiting for a date with some 124 gr Gold Dots. Lots of good choices listed.
View Quote


I used a max load of BE86 with cci sp and prediction delta 115 gr fmj.  Close to 1250 fps in my glock 17 and at 1400 fps out of a 10" uzi barrel.  Probably should not run max all the time but it was also a very accurate load for my glock. Loaded 1k.  The rest of the Be86 I have is going to full power 10mm 180gr loads which are also very accurate.
Link Posted: 8/13/2020 4:08:13 PM EDT
I think Spear and Hornaday books both have a note about not using 147gr bullets in blow back carbines.

I'm not trying to be the safety sheriff here but I haven't seen any discussion on this before. Maybe you guys have a better understanding of it or a link perhaps to a discussion on it.
Link Posted: 8/13/2020 4:21:36 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RiverSwine45:
I think Spear and Hornaday books both have a note about not using 147gr bullets in blow back carbines.

I'm not trying to be the safety sheriff here but I haven't seen any discussion on this before. Maybe you guys have a better understanding of it or a link perhaps to a discussion on it.
View Quote
I have never had an issue, but I am also not using Speer or Hornady bullets or data.
Link Posted: 8/13/2020 6:00:07 PM EDT
Get some of these if you're going to load +p++

Shell Shock 9mm Casings +P+ Torture Test
Link Posted: 8/13/2020 7:58:19 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RiverSwine45:
I think Spear and Hornaday books both have a note about not using 147gr bullets in blow back carbines.

I'm not trying to be the safety sheriff here but I haven't seen any discussion on this before. Maybe you guys have a better understanding of it or a link perhaps to a discussion on it.
View Quote


The carbine I am using is a roller delayed blowback. (almost just like a MP5). The company actually recommends hotter ammo, as lower powered stuff will not properly cycle it. I put that to the test over the weekend and it chokes on independence aluminum.
Link Posted: 8/13/2020 8:57:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns:


The carbine I am using is a roller delayed blowback. (almost just like a MP5). The company actually recommends hotter ammo, as lower powered stuff will not properly cycle it. I put that to the test over the weekend and it chokes on independence aluminum.
View Quote


I just read up on how that works, neat. Looks like it  eliminates the conditions that the reloading books warn about.
Link Posted: 8/13/2020 9:33:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2020 9:45:16 PM EDT by bfoosh06]
Link Posted: 8/13/2020 10:34:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:



God I hope not.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/-/16-712312/?page=1&anc=7429025#i7429025


Would VV 3n38 be a decent choice ?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
Originally Posted By RiverSwine45:
I think Spear and Hornaday books both have a note about not using 147gr bullets in blow back carbines.

I'm not trying to be the safety sheriff here but I haven't seen any discussion on this before. Maybe you guys have a better understanding of it or a link perhaps to a discussion on it.



God I hope not.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/-/16-712312/?page=1&anc=7429025#i7429025


Would VV 3n38 be a decent choice ?


It's written in the Spear manual #14, in the handgun loading data front matter. Something about heavier bullets give less case capacity and higher pressure can open the blow back type bolt too early.

Your tests you linked didn't have any trouble with it so IDK what to think, just wanted to put it out there for anyone interested.

Mine is a Colt 9mm carbine and I decided against using the heavy bullets in it. Which kinda sucks because I have 500 147gr bullets under the bench and my 2 glocks are having trouble with them but my kimber eats em up
Link Posted: 8/14/2020 8:50:23 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By lokifox:
Only thing I have to add is that some HOT pistol loads had issues with piercing primers in a 16” AR9.

Maybe anecdotal, but it seemed like I hit max pressure faster when doing ladders too
View Quote


That’s strange because high pressure doesn’t manifest itself with pierced primers in a block back operated firearm.
Link Posted: 8/14/2020 10:00:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2020 10:03:23 AM EDT by 45-Seventy]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns:
I do have some berrys 90gr round nose bullets. I may try those as well.

Trying to decide between power pistol and AA No 7. Maybe I should just get a pound of both and see how they do.
View Quote


Be careful with max velocity on those. Most plated bullets have a velocity ceiling on 1,250 or so.
Link Posted: 8/14/2020 10:03:03 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RiverSwine45:
I think Spear and Hornaday books both have a note about not using 147gr bullets in blow back carbines.

I'm not trying to be the safety sheriff here but I haven't seen any discussion on this before. Maybe you guys have a better understanding of it or a link perhaps to a discussion on it.
View Quote


I’ve literally burned tens of thousands of 147’s in carbines.

Zero issues.
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