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Posted: 4/16/2017 8:58:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2017 8:56:39 AM EDT by bfoosh06]
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 8:58:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2017 11:09:18 AM EDT by bfoosh06]
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 8:58:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2017 7:51:08 PM EDT by bfoosh06]
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 8:59:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2017 7:59:09 PM EDT by bfoosh06]
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 10:30:14 PM EDT
Very interesting. Did you correlate group size with ES, velocity, or anything else?

My two 9mm AR barrels (16" RRA and 10" Spikes) do fine with the Barnaul lacquered stuff sold under the Academy Sports "Monarch" label, but different barrel makers' chambers are often slightly different.

What always shocked me is that good old Winchester White Box 115gr 9mm ("mild" to say the least) was always both extremely consistent and extremely accurate in my 9s. I never got around to chronographing them in either barrel, though.
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 10:31:13 PM EDT
Also, which chronograph did you use? Just curious about the brand and model.
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 10:39:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/16/2017 10:45:06 PM EDT by bfoosh06]
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 10:43:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/17/2017 9:04:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/17/2017 10:43:30 PM EDT
That's a nice, easy-to-set up chrono. Please don't shoot it until you finish your testing!
Link Posted: 4/17/2017 11:31:22 PM EDT
Hi- thanks for the work! I'm waiting on a dedicated 9mm suppressor and one host will be a 16" PSA much like yours. Based on your results looks like most of the 147gr rounds you tested were not subsonic through 16". I want to find a good factory load that is and you have probably saved me quite a bit of time and money
Link Posted: 4/17/2017 11:34:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2017 11:47:23 PM EDT by bfoosh06]
Link Posted: 4/17/2017 11:37:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2017 11:43:16 PM EDT by bfoosh06]
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 7:32:26 AM EDT
Thank you for the unselfish effort
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 10:00:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 10:15:58 AM EDT
Excellent post, thanks for taking the time.

I've got about 8 carbines in 9mm & .45acp, so slight differences in pistol ammo @ 7 yards from a handgun become much greater shooting out of a 16" barrel out to 50 yards.

It's hard to find one ammo that does it all but lately I lean towards any Swiss or German made Geco, IMI, MEN in 124 gr. and the Winchester 147 gr. T&D. Which surprised me cause I've bought some really bad WWB, bad enough I don't mess with it just cause it's so inconsistent. And PPU is usually my first choice for budget rifle ammo in several calibers, but the only PPU pistol ammo I buy is their heavier hollow points.
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 10:20:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2017 10:22:10 AM EDT by bfoosh06]
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 10:26:39 AM EDT
Cheers, OP. This thread will be quoted across the internet. Thanks for spending the money and taking the time.
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 3:29:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2017 11:49:40 PM EDT by bfoosh06]
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 3:38:12 PM EDT
Depressing to see so few subsonics. Do you mind telling us what altitude it was you fired @?
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 4:03:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 9:46:17 PM EDT
Thank you for donating your time and money to provide us this incredibly valuable information. This is gold.
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 10:31:32 PM EDT
I already posted in the General Firearms section how great I think your test is.

FWIW, I would do the accuracy test at 50 yards. I think that's a decent range to assess a 9mm carbine, knowing full well that a competent shooter can push the range out quite a bit and still put rounds on target. But for a PCC, if you can consistently break clay pigeons at 50 yards, you can own any combat target out to 150 yards. With a 9mm, I'm fine with that range.
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 11:49:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 11:51:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 11:54:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:59:52 AM EDT
Interesting results. I see a couple of the loads, actually lose velocity from the 16" barrel, compared to when I tested them from the 7.72" EVO. EX: I hit 1400+ fps from Brown bear :D

Yeah a lot of the subsonics don't stay subsonic out of the longer barrels. A good safe bet is to always use 158gr if they stabilize in your barrel. Some of the 147gr stuff works too, although I don't have a 16" barrel to test.

Good work
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 1:18:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2017 10:39:01 AM EDT by bfoosh06]
Link Posted: 4/22/2017 10:42:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/7/2017 8:02:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/14/2017 12:56:22 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:


Glad to help !

I suggest you consider the IMI 158gr as a possible choice.... even unsurpressed, that round was noticeably quieter.
View Quote
I thank you too, I have a PSA AR-9 Colt pattern as well. I have a large cache of 9mm NATO, mostly WWB and was glad to see the 1340fps readings. I believe I will look into that there IMI 158gr. I recently built a GAR-9 (my name for a Glock Mag Lower) which is also a PSA unit. 10.5" barrel pistol. Just waiting for the heavy buffer, and it's ready to fire! :D Guess I could have used the Colt-Pattern buffer, but I have not had time for a range trip yet anyway... I'd surmise that much of your heavier 9mm might be subsonic in that 10.5" upper

Thanks for putting in the time for all this valuable data!

That 147gr @ 1348fps is AWESOME! Atlanta Arms, correct?
Link Posted: 5/14/2017 12:58:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2017 1:15:51 AM EDT by RGRundeRGRound]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By backbencher:
Cheers, OP. This thread will be quoted across the internet. Thanks for spending the money and taking the time.
View Quote
Thanks to BACKY, I'm here checking this dataset!

OP, YAVEX makes some 124gr NATO, and our friends at HPFF report a bit less bullet drop at range. One of the older members there is getting ~2" groups @ 1ooyds with even the WWB NATO rounds, with a Hi Point 995TS, 16.5" barrel. He's a great shot, however... Claims the NATO rounds are loaded consistently to group that way. That would be a good one to test. IF you can find it.
Link Posted: 5/14/2017 10:35:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/14/2017 8:35:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2017 8:37:13 PM EDT by RGRundeRGRound]
Adding Muzzle Energy to the list

Polycase, 65gr Interceptor...1940fps 543 ME
Polycase, 65gr Interceptor RNP...1844fps 491 ME

Ruger, +P 80gr ARX...1689fps 507 ME

LeHigh Defense, +P 90gr Extreme Defense...1773fps 628 ME

Winc. 90gr Zinc Core "Super Clean"...1548fps 479 ME

Buffalo Bore, +P+ 95gr Barnes TAC-XP...1880fps 745 ME

Magtech, 95gr JSP...1694fps 605 ME

Fiocchi, 100gr Frang...1568fps 546 ME

Hornady, 100gr Lite, Flextip...1326fps 390 ME


Aguila, 115gr FMJ...1360fps 472 ME
Aguila, +P 115gr FMJ...1418fps 513 ME
Aguila, 117gr JHP...1282fps 427 ME

Armscor, 115gr FMJ...1200fps 368 ME

Atlanta Arms, 115gr FMJ...1388fps 492 ME

Barnes, +P 115gr XTAC...1303fps 433 ME

BlazerBrass, 115gr FMJ...1335fps 455 ME

Brown Bear, 115gr FMJ...1398fps 499 ME

Browning, 115gr FMJ...1392fps 495 ME

Buffalo Bore, +P+ 115gr Barnes...1505fps 578 ME

Colt SCHP, 115gr...1360fps 472 ME

Estate, 115gr FMJ...1310fps 438 ME

Federal, 115gr FMJ Aluminum cased,...1326fps 449
Federal 115gr SynTech...1362fps 474 ME
Federal, +P+ 115gr JHP 9BPLE...1640fps 687 ME
Federal, 115gr JHP, XM9001...1532fps 599 ME
Federal, 115gr JHP 9BP...1363fps 474 ME
Federal, 115gr FMJ AE...1324fps 448 ME
Federal, 115gr FMJ "Champion"...1340fps 458 ME
Link Posted: 5/14/2017 8:36:30 PM EDT
CONTINUED, due to asinine 2000 character limit on "new accounts"


Fiocchi, 115gr HP...1458fps 543 ME
Fiocchi, 115gr FMJ...1316fps 442 ME

Herters, 115gr "Total Nylon Jacket"...1340fps 458 ME

Hornady, 115gr C. Defense FTX...1340fps 458 ME

HotShot, 115gr FMJ...1372fps 481 ME

GECO, 115gr FMJ...1334fps 454 ME

IMI, 115gr FMJ...1427fps 520 ME
IMI 115gr Di-Cut...1352fps 467 ME

Independence, 115gr FMJ, Brass...1305fps 435 ME

Magtech, 115gr FMJ...1371fps 480 ME
Magtech, +P+ 115gr JHP...1640fps 687 ME

MaxxTech, 115gr FMJ...1198fps 366 ME

Nosler, 115gr JHP, "Match"...1464fps 547 ME

PMC, 115gr FMJ...1287fps 423 ME

PPU, 115gr FMJ...1363fps 474 ME
PPU, 115gr FMJ NATO...1448fps 535 ME

Sellier & Bellot, 115gr FMJ...1340fps 458 ME
Sellier & Bellot, 115gr JHP...1370fps 479 ME

Sig Sauer, 115gr FMJ...1498fps 573 me
Sig Sauer, 115gr JHP V-Crown...1462fps 546 ME

Silver Bear, 115gr FMJ...1525fps 594 ME

Speer, 115gr GD...1525fps 594 ME
Speer, 115gr TMJ...1396fps 498 ME
Speer, +P 115gr TMJ...1382fps 488 ME
Speer, +P+ 115gr GD...1596fps 650 ME

Winc., 115gr FMJ...1370fps 479 ME
Winc., 115gr FMJ "Forged"...1336fps 456 ME

Wolf, 115gr FMJ Military Classic...1352fps 467 ME
Wolf, 115gr FMJ Poly...1530fps 1st lot # 598 ME
Wolf, 115gr FMJ Poly...1410fps 2nd lot # 508 ME
Link Posted: 5/14/2017 8:52:43 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RGRundeRGRound:


Thanks to BACKY, I'm here checking this dataset!

OP, YAVEX makes some 124gr NATO, and our friends at HPFF report a bit less bullet drop at range. One of the older members there is getting ~2" groups @ 1ooyds with even the WWB NATO rounds, with a Hi Point 995TS, 16.5" barrel. He's a great shot, however... Claims the NATO rounds are loaded consistently to group that way. That would be a good one to test. IF you can find it.
View Quote
Mole, the Yavex and ZQI are both manufactured by MKE in Turkey. My Yavex I bought does have a Nato head stamp symbol on these 124gr. I do not think this ammo is available in 124gr under that name. It appears they may be going more under the ZQI name now. Not yet certain.
Link Posted: 5/15/2017 12:37:11 AM EDT
Thanks for the hard math work, Mole. Chews dirt AND does Algebra!
Link Posted: 5/15/2017 6:21:16 AM EDT
Thanks for the great work! This is a good reminder for me to pickup some 9BPLE before it disappears from the market. Very fun to shoot out of carbines.
Link Posted: 5/15/2017 7:00:37 AM EDT
Very interesting.....thank you!


My suggestion for accuracy testing is 50 yards.......
Link Posted: 5/15/2017 8:36:34 AM EDT
I'll add my thanks for the info and suggest using 50 yd for accuracy test.
Link Posted: 5/15/2017 10:30:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/15/2017 10:31:53 AM EDT by bfoosh06]
Link Posted: 5/15/2017 10:35:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/15/2017 10:44:25 AM EDT by bfoosh06]
Link Posted: 5/19/2017 10:32:15 PM EDT
Love to see that Liberty 9mm+P stuff that clocks 2K out of a pistol tested......
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