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Posted: 8/25/2015 3:48:57 PM EDT
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/08/foghorn/atf-may-soon-reclassify-some-machine-guns-as-post-sample-and-non-transferrable/
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 3:50:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2015 3:50:27 PM EDT by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 3:56:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2015 4:03:04 PM EDT by RogueSpear2023]
OP failed at not making it hot.

Fuck the the ATF fucking bastards are going to come steal property or make law abiding citizens criminals 29 years later. All in Obama's crusade to kill the second amendment.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 3:59:59 PM EDT
Whats the secret. Works for me.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 4:04:56 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By har1340:
Whats the secret. Works for me.
View Quote

Hit the hyperlink at the bottom of the window to make it red and hot so people that are on phones or tablets can link the page
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 4:05:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 4:16:20 PM EDT
I saw this a little bit ago. I wish the article had a better source than "Our sources tell us....".

Link Posted: 8/25/2015 4:19:31 PM EDT
Still trying to figure how to "Hit the hyperlink at the bottom of the window to make it red and hot so people that are on phones or tablets can link the page"
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 5:10:01 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By har1340:


Still trying to figure how to "Hit the hyperlink at the bottom of the window to make it red and hot so people that are on phones or tablets can link the page"
View Quote




 
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 5:34:25 PM EDT
Go figure, more blow back from that stupid a$$ law suit.



Kind of makes me wonder if the ATF is doing this to piss people off.

Like when you were in school and some kid did something stupid, so of punishing the kid directly the teacher hands out a pop quiz for the whole class. No need to punish the kid as the class will do it for her later and as a result no on will ever do what he did again.

Maybe the ATFs goal here is to make this law suit end up causing more harm than good for NFA owners so in the future people will no file law suits...just a thought
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 5:35:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 5:55:18 PM EDT

Fleming Firearms : produced around 3500 Sears.
2) Hard Times Armory : unknown. HTA did many registered receiver MP5's.
3) Qualified Manufacturing : produced around 1500 Sears.
4) S & H Arms : produced around 1400 Sears.
5) Johnathon Ciener : produced around 250 Sears.
6) Bedrock Class II Weapons and Ammo of Glendale, Arizona
7) Wilson registered sear pack - unknown.
8) LaFrance lower with registered sear - unknown.


So I think Fleming,Qualified & S&H certainly did'nt register all on May 20th, article suggest all the HK sear are in trouble sounds crazy to me.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 7:26:42 PM EDT
/URL=https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/08/foghorn/atf-may-soon-reclassify-some-machine-guns-as-post-sample-and-non-transferrable/]http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/08/foghorn/atf-may-soon-reclassify-some-machine-guns-as-post-sample-and-non-transferrable/[/URL]

Thanks guys for the help. Lets see if this makes it hot.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 11:56:07 PM EDT
Very curious if they mean all Fleming sears or just the ones manufactured very late in the game.  My serial number is in the H-25xx range, which I think is about 1000 less than the last they made.  I don't suppose it missed the cutoff within 48 hours, but it is somewhat concerning.
Link Posted: 8/26/2015 1:09:51 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tony_k:
I'm waiting for thetruthaboutguns to post some source information. Until they do, this is pure speculation.
View Quote


Exactly. While the ATF seems to run amuck, I'd like to see some documentation supporting these allegations before I get worried about my Sear.
Link Posted: 8/26/2015 2:46:47 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Spartikis:
Go figure, more blow back from that stupid a$$ law suit.



Kind of makes me wonder if the ATF is doing this to piss people off.

Like when you were in school and some kid did something stupid, so of punishing the kid directly the teacher hands out a pop quiz for the whole class. No need to punish the kid as the class will do it for her later and as a result no on will ever do what he did again.

Maybe the ATFs goal here is to make this law suit end up causing more harm than good for NFA owners so in the future people will no file law suits...just a thought
View Quote


Which suit, exactly?
Link Posted: 8/26/2015 2:49:20 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CKxx:
Which suit, exactly?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CKxx:



Originally Posted By Spartikis:

Go figure, more blow back from that stupid a$$ law suit.
Kind of makes me wonder if the ATF is doing this to piss people off.



Like when you were in school and some kid did something stupid, so of punishing the kid directly the teacher hands out a pop quiz for the whole class. No need to punish the kid as the class will do it for her later and as a result no on will ever do what he did again.



Maybe the ATFs goal here is to make this law suit end up causing more harm than good for NFA owners so in the future people will no file law suits...just a thought




Which suit, exactly?




 
I assume he is speaking of Nolo's lawsuit?
Link Posted: 8/26/2015 5:54:52 AM EDT
Mother of GOD.  

Ok

How would one go about putting in a FOIA request?  Any specific lanquage outside of referencing MFG date, registration date, and all transfer history on sear H33xx?  As this is on other forums, is there are SN range for Flemming H sears that are "known"?
Link Posted: 8/26/2015 6:08:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/26/2015 6:39:58 AM EDT
Question time:

If I submitted a Form 1 for a Machine gun and it was signed and dated May 18 1986, but sat in a paperwork pile for a month would it still have gotten approved? Or did the paperwork have to be approved by May 19th?
Link Posted: 8/26/2015 7:43:17 AM EDT
I'll just leave this here in case it gets to that point...

Link Posted: 8/26/2015 1:48:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gunnerpalace:
Question time:

If I submitted a Form 1 for a Machine gun and it was signed and dated May 18 1986, but sat in a paperwork pile for a month would it still have gotten approved? Or did the paperwork have to be approved by May 19th?
View Quote

No it wouldn't not a sot has a set time to send in a form 2 after product was made it not the same as your question
Link Posted: 8/26/2015 3:23:38 PM EDT
Please for the love of God, NO ONE WRITE THE ATF!!!!!  It only makes things worse.
Link Posted: 8/26/2015 3:51:04 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gunnerpalace:
Question time:

If I submitted a Form 1 for a Machine gun and it was signed and dated May 18 1986, but sat in a paperwork pile for a month would it still have gotten approved? Or did the paperwork have to be approved by May 19th?
View Quote


The firearm had to be lawfully possessed by date of enactment.
Link Posted: 8/27/2015 9:35:21 AM EDT
I'm sure people will starting writing... no doubt about that.
They will never get it.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By collegeboy:
Please for the love of God, NO ONE WRITE THE ATF!!!!!  It only makes things worse.
View Quote

Link Posted: 8/28/2015 5:52:28 AM EDT
What is the lowest Fleming sear number anyone has seen or does anyone know what number they started marking the serial numbers with?
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 12:05:50 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dmtsc:
What is the lowest Fleming sear number anyone has seen or does anyone know what number they started marking the serial numbers with?
View Quote


1.  



There was an ad on here about a decade ago for the first 10 sears ever made by Fleming or something,  wanted $225k for all 10 IIRC
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 12:02:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2015 12:03:06 AM EDT by JoshNC]
Is FOIA request the only way to determine date of manufacture? My Fleming sear is H9xx. Just curious about it with all this scuttle about ATF supposedly scrutinizing Fleming sears.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 7:40:38 AM EDT
I am not a lawyer or any sort of NFA expert but I would not submit a FOIA request. FOIA requires a certain level of effort and obligation on the part of .gov agencies  and as a result it may create or reveal a problem that you didn't have before. AFAIK, right now you don't have a problem. You are in possession of a legaly registered Machinegun. Trying to make it more legal isn't going to accomplish anything.

As far as I can tell EVERY Internet thread about "ATF confiscating HK sears" round-robins back to the same TTAG posting. Unless something official is issued by ATF, I would not be overly concerned.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 7:42:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2015 7:43:43 AM EDT by hellbound]
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 10:45:42 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History




 
You do realize that this topic here predates the one you linked to, right?  




The one you linked to is the "dupe".  
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 4:30:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2015 4:31:10 PM EDT by Bgu301]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Makarov:
I am not a lawyer or any sort of NFA expert but I would not submit a FOIA request. FOIA requires a certain level of effort and obligation on the part of .gov agencies  and as a result it may create or reveal a problem that you didn't have before. AFAIK, right now you don't have a problem. You are in possession of a legaly registered Machinegun. Trying to make it more legal isn't going to accomplish anything.

As far as I can tell EVERY Internet thread about "ATF confiscating HK sears" round-robins back to the same TTAG posting. Unless something official is issued by ATF, I would not be overly concerned.
View Quote


Ok. I agree with your logic.
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 12:58:28 AM EDT
if the sear has been transferred already from the initial form 4..than..it will be fine.


If it has been sitting since day 1 with same owner..it will be confiscated.


that is the logic of an ATF local yokel.

Link Posted: 8/31/2015 1:05:45 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jozsi:
if the sear has been transferred already from the initial form 4..than..it will be fine.

If it has been sitting since day 1 with same owner..it will be confiscated.

View Quote


Fleming is a convicted felon, so I doubt he has any sears left in his possession.
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 5:04:21 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Fleming is a convicted felon, so I doubt he has any sears left in his possession.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:



Originally Posted By Jozsi:

if the sear has been transferred already from the initial form 4..than..it will be fine.



If it has been sitting since day 1 with same owner..it will be confiscated.







Fleming is a convicted felon, so I doubt he has any sears left in his possession.
What was his felony?

 
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 10:30:46 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
What was his felony?  
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By Jozsi:
if the sear has been transferred already from the initial form 4..than..it will be fine.

If it has been sitting since day 1 with same owner..it will be confiscated.



Fleming is a convicted felon, so I doubt he has any sears left in his possession.
What was his felony?  


Fleming figured out a "loophole" to avoid the need for the $200 transfer tax by bouncing gun/transfers through a local (and friendly) Police Department and taking advantage of the fact that transfer "to and from" a qualified agency are tax free.   I believe in some cases the PD never even took possession of the guns and there was merely a "paper" transfer through the police department.

The government felt it was not a legal tax avoidance loophole but really an illegal tax evasion scheme and tried and convicted him on NFA Tax evasion.  

http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/us_v_fleming.txt

I believe after he was convicted his wife picked up the FFL and held some of the remaining inventory that wasn't originally sold off.   I remember Fleming holding a charity auction/sale maybe 7 or 8 years ago and selling off a couple movie guns to help pay for his wife cancer treatment.  (I think it was an HK51 and/or 51K used by Steven Segal in a film or two)

Pretty sure his son has an FFL now but no clue how many original sears may have been passed down from him after his conviction to his wife and then ultimately to his son.

Link Posted: 8/31/2015 10:59:06 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jbntex:


Fleming figured out a "loophole" to avoid the need for the $200 transfer tax by bouncing gun/transfers through a local (and friendly) Police Department and taking advantage of the fact that transfer "to and from" a qualified agency are tax free.   I believe in some cases the PD never even took possession of the guns and there was merely a "paper" transfer through the police department.

The government felt it was not a legal tax avoidance loophole but really an illegal tax evasion scheme and tried and convicted him on NFA Tax evasion.  

http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/us_v_fleming.txt

I believe after he was convicted his wife picked up the FFL and held some of the remaining inventory that wasn't originally sold off.   I remember Fleming holding a charity auction/sale maybe 7 or 8 years ago and selling off a couple movie guns to help pay for his wife cancer treatment.  (I think it was an HK51 and/or 51K used by Steven Segal in a film or two)

Pretty sure his son has an FFL now but no clue how many original sears may have been passed down from him after his conviction to his wife and then ultimately to his son.

View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jbntex:
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By Jozsi:
if the sear has been transferred already from the initial form 4..than..it will be fine.

If it has been sitting since day 1 with same owner..it will be confiscated.



Fleming is a convicted felon, so I doubt he has any sears left in his possession.
What was his felony?  


Fleming figured out a "loophole" to avoid the need for the $200 transfer tax by bouncing gun/transfers through a local (and friendly) Police Department and taking advantage of the fact that transfer "to and from" a qualified agency are tax free.   I believe in some cases the PD never even took possession of the guns and there was merely a "paper" transfer through the police department.

The government felt it was not a legal tax avoidance loophole but really an illegal tax evasion scheme and tried and convicted him on NFA Tax evasion.  

http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/us_v_fleming.txt

I believe after he was convicted his wife picked up the FFL and held some of the remaining inventory that wasn't originally sold off.   I remember Fleming holding a charity auction/sale maybe 7 or 8 years ago and selling off a couple movie guns to help pay for his wife cancer treatment.  (I think it was an HK51 and/or 51K used by Steven Segal in a film or two)

Pretty sure his son has an FFL now but no clue how many original sears may have been passed down from him after his conviction to his wife and then ultimately to his son.



46 months, $25,000 fine, for using the system as it exists to avoid $1200 in NFA tax.
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 7:11:38 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jozsi:
if the sear has been transferred already from the initial form 4..than..it will be fine.


If it has been sitting since day 1 with same owner..it will be confiscated.


that is the logic of an ATF local yokel.

View Quote


Are you saying your "ATF local yokel" knows of some official action regarding this issue? So far I have not heard of any of this talk originating from ATF directly.
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