What are your 14.5 barrel shot groupings?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What are your 14.5 barrel shot groupings?

Posted: 5/7/2004 12:34:16 PM EDT

Hi,

I just purchased a bushmaster 14.5 inch upper (preban colt lower) with phantom permanently attached. I also added a RAS II, ARMS 40 BUIS and Aimpoint ML.

I was wondering what type of groupings you guys can get at 50 and 100 yards using the iron sights?

I'm having trouble sighting in with the irons. Does anyone else think the AR15/M16 sight picture rather odd (compared to say an AK47)? Any tips?

Posted: 5/7/2004 1:32:12 PM EDT

[#1]

I can hit a 9 inch frypan from 150 yards with iron sights all friggen day long shooting offhand.
From a benchrest at 150 yards the number drops to 3 or 4 inch groups w/iron sights.

I'm talkin' 'bout a Bushmaster 14.5 inch barrel w/Phantom FH 1/9 twist 5.56 NATO w/Q1313A ammo.

What problems are you having sighting in w/irons. Carry handle or ARMS#40 ?

Posted: 5/7/2004 1:36:55 PM EDT

[#2]

I have trouble shooting iron sights on carbines well because the sight radius is short, and I am near sighted....the front post ends up looking twice as wide as it really is to me, so zeroing iron sights on carbines is a pain. With rifle length iron sight radius I shoot very well.

With dot sights I have no problem and I can get 1-2MOA groups shooting from a bench with a 14.5" barrel

for practical shooting, if you can keep all your shots from various improvised and field firing postions on a 6" circle at 100 yards, 12" at 200 yards, and 18" at 300 yards with a carbine with a dot sight you are good to go....beyond that you are really pushing the limits of your equipment and for most shooters the limits of their abilities.

Posted: 5/7/2004 1:48:42 PM EDT

[#3]

welcome to the club scott

when you get a chance try and post a pic of your new rifle, i bet it's sweet. i'm sure you'll be getting another one soon enough.

Posted: 5/7/2004 4:32:11 PM EDT

[#4]

On my "short" sight uppers,,,,, I take and machine the front sight post down in diameter. I simply use my MAKITA to spin the post, and a file to remove the material. After getting the post to what I want, I use a black or blue marker to color the post again---- I'm a cheap-ass.

Posted: 5/7/2004 5:40:27 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
On my "short" sight uppers,,,,, I take and machine the front sight post down in diameter. I simply use my MAKITA to spin the post, and a file to remove the material. After getting the post to what I want, I use a black or blue marker to color the post again---- I'm a cheap-ass.

Ditto, but I give mine a quick sand blast (hand blasting unit with the threaded post section tapped off), and finish them off with cold bluing (dark black) to knock the sheen down on the steel and hold the color longer than just using a sharpy marker.

Posted: 5/7/2004 5:47:06 PM EDT

[#6]

4 to 5 " offhand at 50 and 100 standing,prone 3.I sight in my carbine so instead of lolypoping the sights"letting the circle rest on the front sight I bring up the sight like normal halfway in the rear peep and then cut the target with the front sight right in the middle and it shoots to point of aim.Leave your rear all the way down and asjust the front for elevation like an A1 and its goodto go out to the combat range 100 yds and under

Posted: 5/7/2004 6:15:16 PM EDT

[#7]

He's using an ARMS 40, not an A2 type sight.
I bet he's shooting low.

Posted: 5/7/2004 7:02:31 PM EDT

[#8]

500 yrds against man size target is a piece of cake. I shot a 49 out of 50 last week at the snap shot match with issue ammo. This means the little carbine shot at most 2.5MOA at that range ( wind was about 5mph )

Posted: 5/7/2004 7:47:19 PM EDT

[#9]

500 yrds?!?! holy crap!

Well I managed about 1.5 inch groups @ 50 yards today. I'm still wondering what range I should be sighting in at? I read this http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/zeroingmethods.msnw about compensation sigthing at 25 yards. I have a bunch of questions.

1. If I sight in using the 1.25 inch below point of aim @ 25 yards method for the correct 25 meter sight in, how high or low should I be hitting at 50 yards?

2. Should I just sight in at 50 yards?

3. What are the click adjustments for the ARMS #40? Mine didn't come with instructions.

4. Also I notice that if I use the smaller ARMS #40 ring aperture I can get a better sight picture and better groupings. Is this ok to do?

Posted: 5/7/2004 7:55:32 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
1. If I sight in using the 1.25 inch below point of aim @ 25 yards method for the correct 25 meter sight in, how high or low should I be hitting at 50 yards?

Should be right on at 50 yards

2. Should I just sight in at 50 yards?

Of course

3. What are the click adjustments for the ARMS #40? Mine didn't come with instructions.

1/2 moa per click

4. Also I notice that if I use the smaller ARMS #40 ring aperture I can get a better sight picture and better groupings. Is this ok to do?

Just know that there will be a change in the height of the rounds when you switch between the apertures. Zero with the aperture you will use.

Posted: 5/8/2004 6:02:10 AM EDT

[#11]

for my 14.5 I had to buy the post that is taller to sight it in. (BM 14.5 1/9 ROT with a ARMS #40)
When I put the Aimpoint M2 on and sighted it in, I got about 1-2 inches at 25m (25m = 28yds).
at 100yds I was doing about 4in with the 4moa dot. (does that sound right?) I was using Wolf ammo on a very windy day. (shooting into the wind).

Posted: 5/8/2004 9:54:11 AM EDT

[#12]

It seems that everyone either needs to sand the post down or get a taller post. I haven't had encountered either issue. Perhaps I'm not sighting in correctly?

Posted: 5/8/2004 10:55:31 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
I have trouble shooting iron sights on carbines well because the sight radius is short, and I am near sighted....the front post ends up looking twice as wide as it really is to me, so zeroing iron sights on carbines is a pain. With rifle length iron sight radius I shoot very well.

I had the exact same problem. I'm near sighted 20/400. My groups use to be consistently inconsistent with a 16" barrel and almost perfect with a 20". I re-visited the shooting basics and my carbine groups have vastly improved! I have to focus on the front sight pin a little longer than I do with a 20" rifle but it works. I get excellent groups now.

Posted: 5/8/2004 2:16:03 PM EDT

[#14]

A friend of mine has a 14" Pac-Nor barrel with a 2" comp on it, and he showed up at the shop the other day with a target sporting two back to back 100 yard groups that were both under 1/2". It doesn't appear that the shorter barrel has any accuracy problems.

Posted: 5/8/2004 2:52:08 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
A friend of mine has a 14" Pac-Nor barrel with a 2" comp on it, and he showed up at the shop the other day with a target sporting two back to back 100 yard groups that were both under 1/2". It doesn't appear that the shorter barrel has any accuracy problems.

Using iron sights?

Posted: 5/8/2004 4:09:47 PM EDT

[#16]

I think 2" is possible (with all standard non match stuff) but I realistically get more like 3" groups in prone with no support other than the magazine itself.

Posted: 5/8/2004 8:15:20 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
It doesn't appear that the shorter barrel has any accuracy problems.

Just trying to help here, so PLEASE don't take offense, as none is intended!

Accuracy has nothing to do with barrel length. Barrel length affects velocity. In fact many experiance better accuracy with SBR's as there is less barrel to get barrel whip with.

The problem with barrel length less than 16" is that velocity is too low and fragmentation won't occur (or at least at medium to longer distances).

Posted: 5/8/2004 8:29:22 PM EDT

[#18]

The 14.5 fragments under 100 yds,not a deficiency when 95% of engagements will take place at that range or most often shorter ranges.The 11.5 will even fit the bill for that range.

Posted: 5/8/2004 8:47:28 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
The 14.5 fragments under 100 yds,not a deficiency when 95% of engagements will take place at that range or most often shorter ranges.The 11.5 will even fit the bill for that range.

If you are refering to general military engagements, then yes you're correct

, well sort of.

Need for range would be dictated by the type of mission and terrain.

Posted: 5/8/2004 9:42:07 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
The 14.5 fragments under 100 yds,not a deficiency when 95% of engagements will take place at that range or most often shorter ranges.The 11.5 will even fit the bill for that range.hr

Does the bullet start to tumble and fragment even if it dosent hit anything?