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Posted: 11/18/2011 5:45:10 AM EDT
[#1]
AR 3/4 MOA
Bolt 1/2 moa I am too spastic to shoot much better. |
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Posted: 11/18/2011 5:47:44 AM EDT
[#2]
I strive for MOA accuracy on all my hunting and precision bolt action rifles and gas guns. Some are capable of .5 MOA, some only 2 MOA. My AR that is setup for precision shooting has a 20" WOA SDM barrel and will do around MOA with 77gr. handloads. At 400 yards my groups average 4-5 inches. I havent really played with it to squeeze every ounce of accuracy though. I do eventually want to build a AR thats capable of very good accuracy but bolt guns seem to do it easier.
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Posted: 11/18/2011 5:49:29 AM EDT
[#3]
It's amazing how these guys who claim to get accuracy out of their rifles that would make competitive benchrest shooters jealous never actually show up for matches. I think ~1 MOA is fair for a decent AR shooting decent ammo. Plenty of good rifles with match ammo will easily dip into the .5 MOA range when people shoot them off benches, but that is pretty boring. Get those same people and rifles and ammo out into a field setting and I bet they'd be lucky to see 1 MOA.
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Posted: 11/18/2011 5:58:07 AM EDT
[#4]
DPMS REPR in .260rem with a custom Kreiger bbl
handloaded 140gr Berger VLDs 5 shot group at 100yards 
same thing at 500yards 
no one is going to shoot a dime everytime at 500, but at 100 it can happen. an average rifle should shoot around 1MOA, a higher end rifle i would expect to be between 1-.75 MOA. sometimes an off the shelf rifle will just happen to shoot better then .75moa, but it is by no means the norm. an average "precision" rifle should shoot between .75-.5moa. an above average "precision" rifle will shoot under .5moa getting to .75moa is fairly easy to do, but everything under that is bought in thousendths of an inch. |
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Posted: 11/18/2011 8:00:39 AM EDT
[#5]
I am happy when my bolt guns are around .75 MOA with 5 or more shots and 1 MOA for ARs. Anything below that gets hard for me to do.
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Posted: 11/18/2011 8:24:19 AM EDT
[#6]
Larue Stealth w/ handloads––- 0.5-0.75moa... I can personally get 0.8moa groups out of it... I'm sure it is still better than me...
I expect sub MOA out of my precision guns... bolt or semi... Though I am not the best shot, I can hold my own on a good day... as few and far in between they are... |
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Posted: 11/18/2011 10:19:28 AM EDT
[#7]
sub MOA for my bolt actions
1 MOA for a AR15 with SS barrel ( NO 5rd group) |
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Posted: 11/18/2011 10:25:01 AM EDT
[#8]
at 100 yards I expect 1/2 MOA or less out of my stag model 6 upper with the crappy bulk 55 gr federal stuff.
my expectations grow in size as the target increases it's distance from me. at 300 yards i'm happy if i'm keeping all the holes within 3 inches of eachother on that same bulk ammo... with nice match grade ammo i expect just a little over 1 MOA when i'm shooting well and there's no wind at that disance |
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Posted: 11/18/2011 10:52:23 AM EDT
[#9]
They shoot better than me.
The top one in this group was obviously my fault. With the stock trigger, it's tough to get a steady group with that much creep. 
This is 100yards with my 24" ER Shaw barrel using Federal 77 gr Gold Match. My Stag 6.8 16" will do almost as well with SSA Barnes 85gr, although I havent shot groups with it since I sighted the scope in. Anything past 200 yards, and I am lucky to get a hole that touches another. |
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Posted: 11/18/2011 11:09:27 AM EDT
[#10]
About 1/2 MOA with my SPR shooting reloads on a good day. Most days I cant seem to do much better than 1 MOA.
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Posted: 11/18/2011 11:28:12 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
at 100 yards I expect 1/2 MOA or less out of my stag model 6 upper with the crappy bulk 55 gr federal stuff. my expectations grow in size as the target increases it's distance from me. at 300 yards i'm happy if i'm keeping all the holes within 3 inches of eachother on that same bulk ammo... with nice match grade ammo i expect just a little over 1 MOA when i'm shooting well and there's no wind at that disance Please tell me this is not serious. |
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Posted: 11/18/2011 11:33:51 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
at 100 yards I expect 1/2 MOA or less out of my stag model 6 upper with the crappy bulk 55 gr federal stuff. my expectations grow in size as the target increases it's distance from me. at 300 yards i'm happy if i'm keeping all the holes within 3 inches of eachother on that same bulk ammo... with nice match grade ammo i expect just a little over 1 MOA when i'm shooting well and there's no wind at that disance Please tell me this is not serious. must be using the Minute of Asshole scale. |
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Posted: 11/18/2011 12:07:35 PM EDT
[#13]
should be able to put 5 rounds into .6-.8 MOA on a good range day with 77gr SMK handloads in a Larue Stealth 18" and 3-9x from a bipod
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Posted: 11/18/2011 12:30:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
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at 100 yards I expect 1/2 MOA or less out of my stag model 6 upper with the crappy bulk 55 gr federal stuff. my expectations grow in size as the target increases it's distance from me. at 300 yards i'm happy if i'm keeping all the holes within 3 inches of eachother on that same bulk ammo... with nice match grade ammo i expect just a little over 1 MOA when i'm shooting well and there's no wind at that disance Please tell me this is not serious. must be using the Minute of Asshole scale. I just read that post like 5x to see if I was missing something. Must be the guy's brother from my original post! 
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Posted: 11/18/2011 1:04:49 PM EDT
[#15]
If I can shoot minute of man, its accurate enough for me.
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Posted: 11/18/2011 1:13:48 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
If I can shoot minute of man, its accurate enough for me. I prefer minute of broad side of barn... |
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Posted: 11/18/2011 1:30:36 PM EDT
[#17]
I have an 18" Noveske upper and a Sabre 18" upper and I am please with Just under 1.25 " at 100 yards. The great thing is that I can usually get sub 3" groups at 300 yards (all using 77g hand loads and 10 shot groups).
My S&W OR can do 1.25" at 100, but struggles to get 5" at 300. (all groups are 10 shots) I once shot with a guy who had a precision 16" stainless and at 300 yards shot 5 shots into about 6". When we walked to the target, he proclaimed, "I'm happy. As long as it shoots MOA, I'm satisfied." 
I believe that if you actually have an AR capable of 10 shot MOA groups, you have a real keeper.....I also feel that they are rare indeed once you put a measurement on the group. I have shot with dozens of people who claim MOA groups that wouldn't know MOA if it bit them on the be-hind! (ETA...I have dozens of 3 shot groups that will measure .5" or less but neither me nor my rifles are capable of that accuracy consistently. If you can consistently shoot sub MOA 3 shot groups then you can consistently shoot sub MOA 10 shot groups. I believe what you will find is that if you shoot multiple 3 shot groups your individual 3 shot groups will actually combine to a much larger 10+ shot group.) |
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Posted: 11/18/2011 1:50:11 PM EDT
[#18]
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If I can shoot minute of man, its accurate enough for me. I prefer minute of broad side of barn... Not sure if serious.... 
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Posted: 11/18/2011 2:42:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
AR 3/4 MOA Bolt 1/2 moa I am too spastic to shoot much better. This is about where I am...If I get more I am happy. |
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Posted: 11/18/2011 3:02:19 PM EDT
[#20]
For my goto rifle, minute of man is good enough for 300 yards. I've never even benched it to see what it can do.
For my precision AR, I've finally gotten about .5 MOA with handloads, but only out to 100 yards. I haven't stretched it farther, and am sure the group size will increase. I'm hoping it will stay below 1 MOA out to 500 yards. I'd be happy with that. |
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Posted: 11/18/2011 3:31:56 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
AR 3/4 MOA Bolt 1/2 moa I am too spastic to shoot much better. This is about where I am...If I get more I am happy. +1, except I don't build precision bolt guns. They are hunting rifles. I once thought, if I can't get 5 shots inside an inch at 100 yards with most any gun I have, I'd get rid of it. Then, I realized a 17hmr is too susceptable to wind, a stock Ruger 10/22 isn't going to shoot MOA out fo the box, and a Marlin lever action isn't going to either. I excuse those rifles from my expectations of MOA. My Factory Sako 270 will shoot multiple factory loads easily under MOA, and my son's factory Remington Model 7 will out shoot my Sako. My RRA heavy Wilde Chambered AR will outshoot either. It's a heavy rifle for hunting, so I went with a Spike's 18" LW-50 SPR build. It's much lighter than the RRA, but I've only found one load that it really likes, and I don't have a supply of it. I know it and another Spike's stainless build I have will shoot better than MOA, but I'm on the hunt for a reasonably priced factory load under $.50/round that I can use for hunting. Below is what the 18" Spike's SPR build can do at 100 yards. The only round of the five shots not touching was the first fired from a clean barrel. 
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Posted: 11/18/2011 3:45:14 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
AR 3/4 MOA Bolt 1/2 moa I am too spastic to shoot much better. This is about where I am...If I get more I am happy. +1, except I don't build precision bolt guns. They are hunting rifles. I once thought, if I can't get 5 shots inside an inch at 100 yards with most any gun I have, I'd get rid of it. Then, I realized a 17hmr is too susceptable to wind, a stock Ruger 10/22 isn't going to shoot MOA out fo the box, and a Marlin lever action isn't going to either. I excuse those rifles from my expectations of MOA. My Factory Sako 270 will shoot multiple factory loads easily under MOA, and my son's factory Remington Model 7 will out shoot my Sako. My RRA heavy Wilde Chambered AR will outshoot either. It's a heavy rifle for hunting, so I went with a Spike's 18" LW-50 SPR build. It's much lighter than the RRA, but I've only found one load that it really likes, and I don't have a supply of it. I know it and another Spike's stainless build I have will shoot better than MOA, but I'm on the hunt for a reasonably priced factory load under $.50/round that I can use for hunting. Below is what the 18" Spike's SPR build can do at 100 yards. The only round of the five shots not touching was the first fired from a clean barrel. http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o306/JameyF/FederalPremium-cropped.jpg My two bolt guns are Remington 700 HBAR free floated. One .308 and one .243. I have put three shots in the same hole a couple of times with each gun but the next two usually open the group up to 1/2 inch. I usually can put 10 shots in about 3/4 inch at 100 yards. I can keep both under 5 inches at 500 yards with my best 10 shot group with the .243 3.5 inches at 500 yards. I have a Leupold 25x scope on that one. All with handloads. As an interesting note factory ammo only shoots about 1 moa for me. 
All groups benchrest off bipod. |
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Posted: 11/18/2011 3:59:59 PM EDT
[#23]
I have an upper I built using a Noveske 18" SPR barell. It will easily shoot groups under 1" at 100 yards, most of which will be touching each other, I have yet to have the opportunity to strech it out, but plan to this year. This upper is way more accurate than me. I am not one to exagerate. I have several uppers and this is the only one I will claim this kind of accuracy out of. My most recent bolt gun will probably out-perform it, but it is extremly accurate as far as I'm concerned. I won't tell you that it will shoot the dick off a field nouse at a zillion yards, but this thing will out-do my skills any day of the week. This is coming from a guy who happily shoots man sized targets all the time, and is not really concerned with shooting bugholes..........
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Posted: 11/18/2011 4:11:59 PM EDT
[#24]
I'm not smiling unless I shoot MOA or better. Unfortunately most factory FMJ ammo isn't capable of that. (especially 5.56). But there is a lot of match, V-max and HP ammo that will consistently shoot sub MOA out of the right gun. Too bad it's usually more expensive than the bulk stuff but I guess you get what you pay for.
-Cody |
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Posted: 11/18/2011 6:30:26 PM EDT
[#25]
With my DMR-16 upper, I want sub-MOA, 10-shot groups. I've gotten them with Hornady 75gr Match ammo, and occasionally get one with my reloads, but I'm still trying to find a consistently sub-MOA load. Since I'm looking for 10-shot groups, I just want them to be consistently under 1" at 100 yards. Whether that's .75" or .95, I don't really care.
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Posted: 11/18/2011 6:31:55 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
at 100 yards I expect 1/2 MOA or less out of my stag model 6 upper with the crappy bulk 55 gr federal stuff. If that's what you're expecting out of that ammo, I'm sure you're rapidly learning to live with disappointment. |
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Posted: 11/18/2011 6:39:11 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
at 100 yards I expect 1/2 MOA or less out of my stag model 6 upper with the crappy bulk 55 gr federal stuff. my expectations grow in size as the target increases it's distance from me. at 300 yards i'm happy if i'm keeping all the holes within 3 inches of eachother on that same bulk ammo... with nice match grade ammo i expect just a little over 1 MOA when i'm shooting well and there's no wind at that disance i think you are missinformed as to the measurments of "MOA" you just said that "nice match grade ammo" shoots WORSE then the bulk ammo.... |
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Posted: 11/18/2011 6:55:42 PM EDT
[#28]
My RRA LAR-8 (.308) with a Tasco scope turns in .5" - .7" with brown box M118LR and my handloads get down to about .4" at 100yds. My WOA 6.5 PacNor Service Rifle shoots just under 1" at 100 yds with irons and MK262 Mod 1.
Here is my best group with the LAR: 
Here is the WOA Service Rifle....Sorry, no picture of the group: 
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Posted: 11/18/2011 9:08:18 PM EDT
[#29]
people seem to forget just how good 1moa out of a ten shot group is at 100 yards. i'm exstatic with my 20" free floated SS wilson match barrel that shoots .75 moa with good commercial ammo at 100 yards. if it werent for one or two flyers out of a ten shot group, it'd be a 1/2 moa barrel. of course i'm shooting it from a rest where there is no movement whatsever on my part, so its literally mechanical accuracy i'm reporting, not me behind this thing prone or offhand.
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Posted: 11/18/2011 11:16:40 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
at 100 yards I expect 12 MOA or less out of my stag model 6 upper with the crappy bulk 55 gr federal stuff. my expectations grow in size as the target increases it's distance from me. at 300 yards i'm happy if i'm keeping all the holes within 3 inches of eachother on that same bulk ammo... with nice match grade ammo i expect just a little over 1 MOA when i'm shooting well and there's no wind at that disance fixed it for you |
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Posted: 11/19/2011 6:39:40 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
My RRA LAR-8 (.308) with a Tasco scope turns in .5" - .7" with brown box M118LR and my handloads get down to about .4" at 100yds. My WOA 6.5 PacNor Service Rifle shoots just under 1" at 100 yds with irons and MK262 Mod 1. Here is my best group with the LAR: http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/AFMarksman/Shooting/LAR8Group.jpg Here is the WOA Service Rifle....Sorry, no picture of the group: http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/AFMarksman/USAF%20Rifle%20Team/Camp%20Perry%202010/DSC_0437.jpg http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/AFMarksman/Signature.jpg WOA built with a PacNor barrel? Whats the 6.5? |
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Posted: 11/19/2011 8:24:48 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Ok, back to reality. What kind of accuracy do you expect from your precision rigs (hunting, bench, match, etc...) For me it's 1 moa. I handload and most of the rifles I own have a "magic" load that will usually do this. Some will even do a little better. I'm happy with a 2 moa 10 round group. I have done as well as just under 1 moa in a 10 rd group but not every time. When plinking with surplus I'm pleased with 3 moa. If I don't drink any coffee and my blood sugar is not to high (it effects vision) I can shoot an occasional .5 moa three round group from a few select rifles, but it's not the norm. I mostly shoot at steels and if I hear a hit, I'm happy. I've met a few guys from local forums that claimed to have .5 moa rifles and skillz. When meeting up with these marksmen at the local range I would learn the decimal point in .5 was on the wrong side of the 5.
Another thing I've learned is the difference in rifle range yards and internet yards.
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Posted: 11/19/2011 9:35:14 AM EDT
[#33]
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My RRA LAR-8 (.308) with a Tasco scope turns in .5" - .7" with brown box M118LR and my handloads get down to about .4" at 100yds. My WOA 6.5 PacNor Service Rifle shoots just under 1" at 100 yds with irons and MK262 Mod 1. Here is my best group with the LAR: http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/AFMarksman/Shooting/LAR8Group.jpg Here is the WOA Service Rifle....Sorry, no picture of the group: http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/AFMarksman/USAF%20Rifle%20Team/Camp%20Perry%202010/DSC_0437.jpg http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/AFMarksman/Signature.jpg WOA built with a PacNor barrel? Whats the 6.5? My Service Rifle Upper was built by White Oak Armament (WOA) using a Pac-Nor 1:6.5 twist rate. I went with the 1:6.5 vs a 1:7 twist because I was working on a 90gr load for long range shooting. Hope this clarifies.... |
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Posted: 11/19/2011 9:45:02 AM EDT
[#34]
For a normal high quality rifle I expect ~1moa . This pic is of a 16" 5.45 upper with 30-40 year old russian surplus, typically shoots between .6moa to 1.2moa with cheap crappy ammo
For a precision rifle I expect ~.5moa with the ammo that it likes if the shooter does their part. |
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Posted: 11/19/2011 10:02:28 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
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My RRA LAR-8 (.308) with a Tasco scope turns in .5" - .7" with brown box M118LR and my handloads get down to about .4" at 100yds. My WOA 6.5 PacNor Service Rifle shoots just under 1" at 100 yds with irons and MK262 Mod 1. Here is my best group with the LAR: http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/AFMarksman/Shooting/LAR8Group.jpg Here is the WOA Service Rifle....Sorry, no picture of the group: http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/AFMarksman/USAF%20Rifle%20Team/Camp%20Perry%202010/DSC_0437.jpg http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/AFMarksman/Signature.jpg WOA built with a PacNor barrel? Whats the 6.5? My Service Rifle Upper was built by White Oak Armament (WOA) using a Pac-Nor 1:6.5 twist rate. I went with the 1:6.5 vs a 1:7 twist because I was working on a 90gr load for long range shooting. Hope this clarifies.... Oh ok. Got ya. |
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Posted: 11/19/2011 10:18:27 AM EDT
[#36]
I have a friend I go to the range with regularly who is a better shot than I and more consistent as well. He has been able to keep groups down to 1MOA with my precision AR15. With me behind the trigger it's more like 1.5MOA.
1MOA is definitely acceptable performance IMO and meets my expectation for my precision AR's accuracy. I could use some practice though. 
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Posted: 11/19/2011 2:55:12 PM EDT
[#37]
The realistic accuracy claims by almost all in this thread is refreshing. We have all got a chuckle from the amusing claims of many across the Internet that we all know are utter BS. lol!
As for the OPs question I expect sub MOA out of my accuracy geared ARs with good ammo and conditions. These are normally just 5 shot groups though. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse depending on the variables. Funny thing is one of my best performing rifles is one that doesn't have much of an investment in it. Just luck of the draw. It's an old 20 something year old Bushy with a 24" fluted chromelined barrel and plain A2 flash hider. I built it using the old style V Match upper with the bolted on rail section creating a "flat top". Plain out of the bin semi auto BCG. A2 stock. Cheap one piece screw on float tube installed with an oil filter wrench. I did throw on a Jewell trigger and a better grip. It doesn't shoot "dime sized groups at 600 yards" but it pulls of a few at 100. 
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Posted: 11/19/2011 4:45:19 PM EDT
[#38]
I recently finished a custom 20" AR build with a Kreiger barrel and was expecting 3/4 moa at 100 yards and was hoping for 1/2 moa. Well as of right now it will do about 5/8 moa all day with factory ammo so that 1/2 moa, or better, might be possible with hand loads and if I do my part. My best 5 shot group so far is .608 MOA
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Posted: 11/19/2011 5:35:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
DPMS REPR in .260rem with a custom Kreiger bbl handloaded 140gr Berger VLDs 5 shot group at 100yards http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/J75player/shooting/P1090988a.jpg same thing at 500yards http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/J75player/5shot.jpg no one is going to shoot a dime everytime at 500, but at 100 it can happen. an average rifle should shoot around 1MOA, a higher end rifle i would expect to be between 1-.75 MOA. sometimes an off the shelf rifle will just happen to shoot better then .75moa, but it is by no means the norm. an average "precision" rifle should shoot between .75-.5moa. an above average "precision" rifle will shoot under .5moa getting to .75moa is fairly easy to do, but everything under that is bought in thousendths of an inch. I have a DPMS LR308 that will sometimes shoot a .5 MOA 5-shot group at 100 yards, but not consistently enough for me to call it a ".5 MOA rifle". But it's consistent enough that if it's over 1MOA, I know it's the ammo or me, and not the rifle. I am satisfied with that for a $1200 rifle, but if I spent the money on a Krieger, I would expect more. My current 5.56 ARs are both chome-lined, and neither will consistently shoot under 1 MOA, but I had two Colts that would (Match Target Tactical Elite and Match H-bar). The only one of those that has ever shot a .5 group for me is the DPMS (surprising, but true). So I suppose 1 MOA would be the minimum standard for me with stainless or chromoly AR, and 1.5 MOA for a chrome lined. I am talking about match ammo here....obviously those groups will open up with cheap ammo. |
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Posted: 11/19/2011 6:02:33 PM EDT
[#40]
My free float rigs. About 3/4 moa on a average. It depends on which loads I get to play with.
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Posted: 11/19/2011 6:28:33 PM EDT
[#41]
How about 20 shot groups with a hot barrel and a stock trigger? The bullseye and the two lower squares were my POA. Top group is BVAC 69gr hollowpoints, my DPMS 18" barrels favorite factory load so far
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Posted: 11/19/2011 7:01:35 PM EDT
[#42]
I'm curious when I see people post 1 pic of their best group and then say to ignore the flyer why don't they just shoot another group? If the gun is that good why can't it just do it again? I don't really consider taking the best of 4 out of 5 shots a true representation of a guns capabilities. Multiple 5 shots groups is a lot more realistic of what a gun shoots, not one single group excluding the rounds outside of the smaller group. Just my 2 cents.
-Cody |
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Posted: 11/19/2011 7:34:59 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
at 100 yards I expect 1/2 MOA or less out of my stag model 6 upper with the crappy bulk 55 gr federal stuff. my expectations grow in size as the target increases it's distance from me. at 300 yards i'm happy if i'm keeping all the holes within 3 inches of eachother on that same bulk ammo... with nice match grade ammo i expect just a little over 1 MOA when i'm shooting well and there's no wind at that disance i think you are missinformed as to the measurments of "MOA" you just said that "nice match grade ammo" shoots WORSE then the bulk ammo.... maybe i am confused about what MOA equals in inches. i can make pretty much 1 ragged hole with the 69 grain match king at 100 yards (3-5shot group) . with the 55 gr stuff if i take my time i can put sub 1.5 inch groups up pretty easily at 100 yards.out past 100 yards the groups open up rapidly with the 55 gr stuff. but with the 69 grain stuff it stays pretty close...maybe 2 inches at the most. this is out of a 24" bull barrel and a bipod. big heavy varmint rig built to punch paper and little critters. it's damn accurate even with the shitty bulk stuff at 100 yards and less. |
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Posted: 11/19/2011 8:32:57 PM EDT
[#44]
I've got a Bushy Hbar, and a S&W Sport. I don't want to turn this into a Sport debate, but they put a really nice barrel in them. Melonite, 5R 16''. It's 1/8, and the Bushy is 1/9. The Bushy will shoot right over an inch, with 55 Fed. Premium SMK's, and the S&W has shot just under an inch with 77 Fed. Prem. SMK's. These are both 5 round, best case deals. I can regularly shoot either 2 moa, out to 300, 10 shot groups. In my short lived experience(4 years with AR's), I have had AR's that would shoot great at 100, but shit the bed once you stretched them out a little. Maybe I am better now, maybe they sucked a little. Who knows. 9080
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Posted: 11/20/2011 5:15:27 AM EDT
[#45]
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Quoted:
Quoted:
at 100 yards I expect 1/2 MOA or less out of my stag model 6 upper with the crappy bulk 55 gr federal stuff. my expectations grow in size as the target increases it's distance from me. at 300 yards i'm happy if i'm keeping all the holes within 3 inches of eachother on that same bulk ammo... with nice match grade ammo i expect just a little over 1 MOA when i'm shooting well and there's no wind at that disance i think you are missinformed as to the measurments of "MOA" you just said that "nice match grade ammo" shoots WORSE then the bulk ammo.... maybe i am confused about what MOA equals in inches. i can make pretty much 1 ragged hole with the 69 grain match king at 100 yards (3-5shot group) . with the 55 gr stuff if i take my time i can put sub 1.5 inch groups up pretty easily at 100 yards.out past 100 yards the groups open up rapidly with the 55 gr stuff. but with the 69 grain stuff it stays pretty close...maybe 2 inches at the most. this is out of a 24" bull barrel and a bipod. big heavy varmint rig built to punch paper and little critters. it's damn accurate even with the shitty bulk stuff at 100 yards and less. generaly, groups are measured center to center of the two furthest apart. 1 MOA is a little over an inch, but most people simplify it to just an inch. as you increase the range, the inches it represents multiplies. if your group is 1 inch at 100yds=1MOA if your rifle shoots 1MOA at 300 yards, that is a 3inch gorup. a 1/2 inch group at 100 yards =.5MOA if your rifle shoots .5MOA at 300 yards that is a 1.5in group |
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Posted: 11/20/2011 5:18:30 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
How about 20 shot groups with a hot barrel and a stock trigger? The bullseye and the two lower squares were my POA. Top group is BVAC 69gr hollowpoints, my DPMS 18" barrels favorite factory load so far http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e324/Metzger888/2011-10-15_10-29-06_149.jpg An honest man!!!! Thank you for not throwing out the "pulled" shots and "fliers". Actually you do have a few sub .5" groups in the mix. I used to use terms like "pulled" and "flier", until I realized they happened all too often.
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Posted: 11/20/2011 5:19:45 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
I'm curious when I see people post 1 pic of their best group and then say to ignore the flyer why don't they just shoot another group? If the gun is that good why can't it just do it again? I don't really consider taking the best of 4 out of 5 shots a true representation of a guns capabilities. Multiple 5 shots groups is a lot more realistic of what a gun shoots, not one single group excluding the rounds outside of the smaller group. Just my 2 cents. -Cody QFT!!!!!! |
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Posted: 11/20/2011 5:26:49 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
How about 20 shot groups with a hot barrel and a stock trigger? The bullseye and the two lower squares were my POA. Top group is BVAC 69gr hollowpoints, my DPMS 18" barrels favorite factory load so far http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e324/Metzger888/2011-10-15_10-29-06_149.jpg That's good shooting. Most all of these rifles are capable of moa or better, the shooter is the limiting factor. I know a local guy that shot over a hundred three shoot groups on fresh paper so he could have a few photo's of his groups 
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Posted: 11/20/2011 6:22:04 AM EDT
[#49]
This is what I expect with crappy ammo...in this case non-NATO stamped Bosnian SS109.
Ten rounds 
Thirty rounds 
Those groups are rapid fired and I love that they stay consistent regardless of round count. That's the beauty of my H-Bar...if you don't mind carrying a nearly 12lb rifle
It'll shoot about 1/4 MOA better with LC M855, and has done the odd sub-MOA five-round group with that stuff. Some day when I have a better ammo budget I'd like to get some match ammo and really see what it can do. |
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Posted: 11/20/2011 6:25:15 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
How about 20 shot groups with a hot barrel and a stock trigger? The bullseye and the two lower squares were my POA. Top group is BVAC 69gr hollowpoints, my DPMS 18" barrels favorite factory load so far http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e324/Metzger888/2011-10-15_10-29-06_149.jpg An honest man!!!! Thank you for not throwing out the "pulled" shots and "fliers". Actually you do have a few sub .5" groups in the mix. I used to use terms like "pulled" and "flier", until I realized they happened all too often.
Amen Brother what a honest reply |
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