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Triggered [Formerly Partisan] Talk (Page 38 of 40)
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Originally Posted By HelpfulGuerilla: Whew, even before I've finished all my coffee today, I can see at least one problem. Slap a strong magnet on that PWS buffer and tell me what it does.  . Or google what material it's made out of. If you feel brave, take that bumper off and measure the amount of deadblow mass.The hammer spring that I sent to you way back when was a pre-prototype. Thanks to minimum order quantities, we had plenty extra. We made dimensional, material, and spring coefficient changes to those pre-prototypes prior to our production. I'll say my hammer spring thing again: If you are having problems in semi-auto and enhanced, that is a hammer spring strength issue (deformation, temper, material flaws, etc). If the problems are not present in semi auto, but are present in enhanced, it is more likely a timing issue. Can a stronger hammer spring overcome bolt bounce? Yes, to some degree. However, please check out your buffer and make certain that it is what we recommend prior to changing any other parts. It'll be cheaper in the long run. All of our testing protocol was done with standard carbine springs and regular old vanilla H3 buffers with 3x moving tungsten weights. Sorry about the massive increase in the price of tungsten, I like to think that we played a part. @drobs, I'll be glad to help you out. I will shoot you a PM with further instruction. Originally Posted By HelpfulGuerilla: Originally Posted By drobs: Both are silver. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Partisan_2_JPG-3816958.jpg Windham lower top with Spikes T3 buffer. PSA lower bottom with PWS H3 buffer. Since I have them apart, I will try the PSA PWS buffer lower with the mid-length upper. Whew, even before I've finished all my coffee today, I can see at least one problem. Slap a strong magnet on that PWS buffer and tell me what it does. . Or google what material it's made out of. If you feel brave, take that bumper off and measure the amount of deadblow mass.The hammer spring that I sent to you way back when was a pre-prototype. Thanks to minimum order quantities, we had plenty extra. We made dimensional, material, and spring coefficient changes to those pre-prototypes prior to our production. I'll say my hammer spring thing again: If you are having problems in semi-auto and enhanced, that is a hammer spring strength issue (deformation, temper, material flaws, etc). If the problems are not present in semi auto, but are present in enhanced, it is more likely a timing issue. Can a stronger hammer spring overcome bolt bounce? Yes, to some degree. However, please check out your buffer and make certain that it is what we recommend prior to changing any other parts. It'll be cheaper in the long run. All of our testing protocol was done with standard carbine springs and regular old vanilla H3 buffers with 3x moving tungsten weights. Sorry about the massive increase in the price of tungsten, I like to think that we played a part. @drobs, I'll be glad to help you out. I will shoot you a PM with further instruction. Just saying, the midlength upper ftf's on both Partisan equipped lowers with both buffers. It doesn't ftf with a Super Safety lower and H1 PSA buffer. |
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Originally Posted By fulautotank: I think the spike's tactical uses tungsten powder and not solid weights. You need a buffer with a solid weights. My HK red dot 416 h3 buffer is tungsten filled and it rocks. Also the Q BCG in the Boombox and new version of HB SD are tungsten filled pellets/powder. They rip with disrupters |
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Found a Brownells(?) H3 brass colored buffer. IIRC Bear Creek Arsenal (wonderful company) make Brownels parts. https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-recoil-parts/ar-15-heavy-carbine-buffers/?sku=078000340 It was in my Atrius PSA lower.  |
Partisan Black Trigger (molding looks like new design / batch), Brownells H3 brass buffer, 3rds fired, Failure to Feed in Partisan mode, with Midlength Gas PSA upper, Windham lower.    Summarizing I tested 3 different H3 buffers (Brownells, Spikes, and PWS) , 2 lowers PSA & Winham, 2 partisan triggers - 1 green old model, 1 black new model with mold marks. I could find no combination that will successfully get a mid-length gas system PSA upper to function without failure to feeds. The PSA upper runs 100% with a Super Safety equipped lower and H1 buffer. How about an H1 buffer with the Partisan? Let's see. 
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Originally Posted By drobs: Partisan Green body trigger, Brownells H3 Brass colored buffer, PSA Lower & Midlength PSA upper. 2rds fired then Failure to Feed in Partisan Mode. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Partisan_Green_Brownells_Brass_H3_buffer-3816984.jpg If I am seeing things correctly, it looks like your bolt is outrunning your magazine. (I am assuming the case head is underneath the bolt head, and a single loaded round will lock the bolt back.) Slow your bolt down with more buffer weight or a lighter spring. Perhaps both. Take your buffer apart and ensure you still have three ~1.5 oz. tungsten weights in it. If you have a heavy recoil spring, try a standard weight (12#) spring! If that doesn't help, try a new mag. EDITED TO ADD: I posted that before I read that you used three different lower set ups. What kind of ammo are you using? Will your bolt lock back on an empty mag? |
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Originally Posted By Ken6PPC: If I am seeing things correctly, it looks like your bolt is outrunning your magazine. (I am assuming the case head is underneath the bolt head, and a single loaded round will lock the bolt back.) Slow your bolt down with more buffer weight or a lighter spring. Perhaps both. Take your buffer apart and ensure you still have three ~1.5 oz. tungsten weights in it. If you have a heavy recoil spring, try a standard weight (12#) spring! If that doesn't help, try a new mag. Originally Posted By Ken6PPC: Originally Posted By drobs: Partisan Green body trigger, Brownells H3 Brass colored buffer, PSA Lower & Midlength PSA upper. 2rds fired then Failure to Feed in Partisan Mode. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Partisan_Green_Brownells_Brass_H3_buffer-3816984.jpg If I am seeing things correctly, it looks like your bolt is outrunning your magazine. (I am assuming the case head is underneath the bolt head, and a single loaded round will lock the bolt back.) Slow your bolt down with more buffer weight or a lighter spring. Perhaps both. Take your buffer apart and ensure you still have three ~1.5 oz. tungsten weights in it. If you have a heavy recoil spring, try a standard weight (12#) spring! If that doesn't help, try a new mag. I do appreciate you input but the upper works perfect 100% in frt mode with a Super Safety equipped lower and a H1 buffer. |
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Originally Posted By Ken6PPC: OK, does your bolt lock open on the last shot? Originally Posted By Ken6PPC: Originally Posted By drobs: I do appreciate you input but the upper works perfect 100% in frt mode with a Super Safety equipped lower and a H1 buffer. OK, does your bolt lock open on the last shot? With the Super Safety, yes. |
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Originally Posted By Ken6PPC: So, it does NOT lock back on last shot with the Disruptors? Do you have a lighter recoil spring to try? With the Partisan, if I ignore the mid mag failure to feed, close the bolt on the partially fed round, and shoot the rest of the magazine, the bolt locks open. But let me go test that... |
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Originally Posted By drobs: With the Partisan, if I ignore the mid mag failure to feed, close the bolt on the partially fed round, and shoot the rest of the magazine, the bolt locks open. But let me go test that... I think you need a lighter recoil spring... Your bolt is outrunning your magazine. |
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Originally Posted By drobs: I do appreciate you input but the upper works perfect 100% in frt mode with a Super Safety equipped lower and a H1 buffer. I believe this is the key/clue. Since it runs with an H1 buffer for SS, I surmise you are running an adjusted gas block. Am I close? If I am, try retuning your gas for the disruptor. Or, try running the disruptor with the H1. Or, mag dump a magazine in 2nd position (old school semi) to confirm you are supplying enough gas to cycle an H3 reliably. I'm thinking H3 is too much buffer for reliable feeding your upper as it is presently set up. |
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Originally Posted By dredeagle: I believe this is the key/clue. Since it runs with an H1 buffer for SS, I surmise you are running an adjusted gas block. Am I close? If I am, try retuning your gas for the disruptor. Or, try running the disruptor with the H1. Or, mag dump a magazine in 2nd position (old school semi) to confirm you are supplying enough gas to cycle an H3 reliably. I'm thinking H3 is too much buffer for reliable feeding your upper as it is presently set up. Good point! But a really heavy recoil spring may do the same thing. |
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Tried a different carbine buffer spring and different bolt assembly just now. The dirty one on the right, is the new bolt. The crusty bolt is a Windham Bolt Assy.  My gas is a standard carbine A2 front sight post non-adjustable system. Sprayed the bolt down with Lucas Oil CLP. Used the Brownells H3 brass buffer. 1st mag all 30rds went off without a hitch. 2nd mag, light primer strike on 2nd round, dead trigger. The rest of mag went off without a hitch. 3rd mag, light primer strike on the 2nd round, dead trigger. The rest of the mag went off without a hitch. The bolt locked open at the end of each completed mag.   Begs the question, down load the mags? |
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Originally Posted By dredeagle: I believe this is the key/clue. Since it runs with an H1 buffer for SS, I surmise you are running an adjusted gas block. Am I close? If I am, try retuning your gas for the disruptor. Or, try running the disruptor with the H1. Or, mag dump a magazine in 2nd position (old school semi) to confirm you are supplying enough gas to cycle an H3 reliably. I'm thinking H3 is too much buffer for reliable feeding your upper as it is presently set up. Rapid fire semi-auto position 2, the bolt locks open on the last round. |
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Loading 2 mags to 25rds each and back to Partisan mode. 1rd fired, dead trigger. Black Partisan trigger, Brownells H3 buffer. Windham Lower. Midlength PSA carbine upper. I'm done. 260rds fired today. It's a no go with this upper. I didn't try an H2 buffer. I may have one, if I dig. |
That 2 minute video of mine, from the weekend.  Will a Partisan Trigger lower work with a mid length Psa upper? Same issues today but worse. |
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Originally Posted By HelpfulGuerilla: First, I will commend you in your excellent choice in receivers. Obviously we will do our best to ensure that it's compatible across all receiver manufacturers. Hesse excluded, because I'll never buy one, but I should probably see what the team will say if I request to expense a FN 50.63, just to ensure compatibility, or something. Second, I'll tell you that the FAL trigger is in process, but it's not our first priority as of this exact moment in time. Maybe it'll make nice a Christmas present. |
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https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/AR15_LUBE_POINTS/7-548967/ An AR likes to run wet. |
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Originally Posted By drobs: That 2 minute video of mine, from the weekend.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVPvuCcPoCwSame issues today but worse. I can answer that question. The answer is yes, absolutely. We have several (many?) PSA mid-length uppers that we have beaten on. I'm pretty certain that one is past 20k rounds. @drobs, if you're having failures to feed, that's most likely not a trigger problem. It's far more likely that your rate of fire with a lighter buffer is enough that your magazine cannot keep up. The bolt has overrun the round in the magazine prior to it getting to the feed lips. The above mentioned PSA midlength super cheapo Freedom line $179 special would actually run really really well with an H1 buffer. It had a crazy fast cyclic, faster than a Mk18 side by side. Just because a particular setup (upper/bolt/buffer/buffer spring) works with a super safety or similar, does not necessarily mean that it will work with the Disruptor or the LAT. Shoot me an email, I'd be happy to take care of you. |
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| Got my KAK 9mm buffer in yesterday. I installed it in my upper and function checked the Disruptor. The trigger came to a noticeable stop and took a high amount of force to release. I loaded a round and the trigger was dead. There was no amount of force I could apply to it to get it to release. Thus is the new Disruptor that @HelpfulGuerilla just sent. Thoughts? |
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Originally Posted By leemozoid: Thoughts? First thought ... show us a picture of the underside of your bolt. TBH, that was my second thought. Before you loaded a round, I did wonder if you were function checking without a bolt releasing the Disruptor's OOB safety. After you loaded a round, I gave benefit of doubt. But, my concern shifted to wether or not the bolt profile is effectively releasing the OOB safety. If you've shared info re your bolt, my apologies - I gave up on memorizing ARFCOM blasters by username before I ever got started. |
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Yep, that bolt won’t engage the trip. You need a more typical tail profile. I have one like it that doesn’t work. |
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Originally Posted By jaqufrost: Only their T2 uses powder. The T3 is fine. Originally Posted By jaqufrost: Originally Posted By fulautotank: I think the spike's tactical uses tungsten powder and not solid weights. You need a buffer with a solid weights. I recall the T3 was sliding Tungsten and T2 was tungsten powder. I thought they also had a T that was tungsten powder as well but not sure. Bought a T3 back in the day trying to tune Carbine gas for good ejection pattern. |
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Originally Posted By leemozoid: Got my KAK 9mm buffer in yesterday. I installed it in my upper and function checked the Disruptor. The trigger came to a noticeable stop and took a high amount of force to release. I loaded a round and the trigger was dead. There was no amount of force I could apply to it to get it to release. Thus is the new Disruptor that @HelpfulGuerilla just sent. Thoughts? It sounds like everyone got you lined out with the issues. In general-if something takes an inordinate amount of force to do, stop. There's nothing that you (not you specifically-anyone with our trigger) will accomplish by pulling overly hard. You can peen the cassette out of battery sear pin hole or bend the out of battery sear pin itself. Both of those will cause failures to the OOB sear and will lead to issues in the enhanced position. You can do this on a Disruptor: With the upper receiver off and the selector in semi or enhanced, try to pull the trigger WHILE pressing the out of battery sear (the toggle on the rear of the cassette) forward. That's the hardest the trigger pull should ever be. Note: it will be heavier in the enhanced position, as you're compressing the disconnector spring as well. |
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Originally Posted By HelpfulGuerilla: It sounds like everyone got you lined out with the issues. In general-if something takes an inordinate amount of force to do, stop. There's nothing that you (not you specifically-anyone with our trigger) will accomplish by pulling overly hard. You can peen the cassette out of battery sear pin hole or bend the out of battery sear pin itself. Both of those will cause failures to the OOB sear and will lead to issues in the enhanced position. You can do this on a Disruptor: With the upper receiver off and the selector in semi or enhanced, try to pull the trigger WHILE pressing the out of battery sear (the toggle on the rear of the cassette) forward. That's the hardest the trigger pull should ever be. Note: it will be heavier in the enhanced position, as you're compressing the disconnector spring as well. I'm sure it's the carrier. |
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Back in January I ordered 2 triggers from optics planet. Got them in February. I installed one. It worked well at the time. I continued to use it in FRT/pos3. Well, I got a new upper as it went on an old gun and I wanted a better handguard (aka not the classic one). I put it in semi-auto to sight in the new upper. And semi-auto goes full FRT. Sometimes it ends in light primer strikes. FRT still worked as expected. So did safe. I'm pretty sure it functions as an FRT correctly. I sent them an email on the contact us page. Pretty disappointed. This is NOT how I would want it to fail. I would never be able to trust a FRT gun in semi-auto to a new shooter. |
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Originally Posted By runawayabc123: Back in January I ordered 2 triggers from optics planet. Got them in February. I installed one. It worked well at the time. I continued to use it in FRT/pos3. Well, I got a new upper as it went on an old gun and I wanted a better handguard (aka not the classic one). I put it in semi-auto to sight in the new upper. And semi-auto goes full FRT. Sometimes it ends in light primer strikes. FRT still worked as expected. So did safe. I'm pretty sure it functions as an FRT correctly. I sent them an email on the contact us page. Pretty disappointed. This is NOT how I would want it to fail. I would never be able to trust a FRT gun in semi-auto to a new shooter. I am probably going to get flamed here but I personally will never trust a active reset trigger to never go active-semi in semi only mode. You need to be prepared to deal with it if it happens. The potential is never zero. When I first started experimenting with FRT's I put 2 rounds in the mag, tested, tested again. Then 3 or 4 then when I knew the feel I went with more rounds. Im never going to give someone who never fired a active reset firearm a full mag. |
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Originally Posted By networkguru: I am probably going to get flamed here but I personally will never trust a active reset trigger to never engage in semi only mode. You need to be prepared to deal with it if it happens. The potential is never zero. Originally Posted By networkguru: Originally Posted By runawayabc123: Back in January I ordered 2 triggers from optics planet. Got them in February. I installed one. It worked well at the time. I continued to use it in FRT/pos3. Well, I got a new upper as it went on an old gun and I wanted a better handguard (aka not the classic one). I put it in semi-auto to sight in the new upper. And semi-auto goes full FRT. Sometimes it ends in light primer strikes. FRT still worked as expected. So did safe. I'm pretty sure it functions as an FRT correctly. I sent them an email on the contact us page. Pretty disappointed. This is NOT how I would want it to fail. I would never be able to trust a FRT gun in semi-auto to a new shooter. I am probably going to get flamed here but I personally will never trust a active reset trigger to never engage in semi only mode. You need to be prepared to deal with it if it happens. The potential is never zero. The potential is not zero in a normal AR either. You might have a sensitive primer somewhere in your magazine, and a free floating firing pin. Your disconnector may stick down and you get hammer follow for a few rounds. |
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Originally Posted By ELittlefield: The potential is not zero in a normal AR either. You might have a sensitive primer somewhere in your magazine, and a free floating firing pin. Your disconnector may stick down and you get hammer follow for a few rounds. No disagreement here. |
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Originally Posted By networkguru: I am probably going to get flamed here but I personally will never trust a active reset trigger to never go active-semi in semi only mode. You need to be prepared to deal with it if it happens. The potential is never zero. When I first started experimenting with FRT's I put 2 rounds in the mag, tested, tested again. Then 3 or 4 then when I knew the feel I went with more rounds. Im never going to give someone who never fired a active reset firearm a full mag. I have yet to have that happen with untold thousands of rounds at this point through most of the designs on the market. Still, not a bad thing to keep in mind. During dry cycling I had an AZRA1 do it a couple times but never during live fire. I also had a buddy who forgot to include the disco spring building his first AR like 20 years ago, that was interesting. |
My first LAT developed a problem with the 3rd position being semi only. But somehow fixed itself just sitting  Anyways, a quick email to TTC and I've gotten a replacement LAT and some replacement pins for my peace of mind. That Guerrilla dude is a pretty cool guy I finally got out today to give it a little test fire. 3 30rd GI magazines of my 55gr reload through an 11.5 carbine gas with a tiny gas port, YHM T2, Tromix A5H3 with a tubbs flatwire spring. Clocked at 837rpm. The trigger pull is quite good. Single stage, no take up or wall, still a little gritty but smoothing out with dry fire and live fire. Its everything I wanted the Disruptor to be. Will be gifting my Disruptor to a friend and get another LAT. Very pleased customer. |
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Originally Posted By networkguru: I am probably going to get flamed here but I personally will never trust a active reset trigger to never go active-semi in semi only mode. You need to be prepared to deal with it if it happens. The potential is never zero. When I first started experimenting with FRT's I put 2 rounds in the mag, tested, tested again. Then 3 or 4 then when I knew the feel I went with more rounds. Im never going to give someone who never fired a active reset firearm a full mag. The potential for the LAT to ever go assisted or active reset in standard semi auto is completely non-existent. It isn't possible, at least no more than a standard trigger. |
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Originally Posted By Ben: The potential for the LAT to ever go assisted or active reset in standard semi auto is completely non-existent. It isn't possible, at least no more than a standard trigger. Originally Posted By Ben: Originally Posted By networkguru: I am probably going to get flamed here but I personally will never trust a active reset trigger to never go active-semi in semi only mode. You need to be prepared to deal with it if it happens. The potential is never zero. When I first started experimenting with FRT's I put 2 rounds in the mag, tested, tested again. Then 3 or 4 then when I knew the feel I went with more rounds. Im never going to give someone who never fired a active reset firearm a full mag. The potential for the LAT to ever go assisted or active reset in standard semi auto is completely non-existent. It isn't possible, at least no more than a standard trigger. How about the Disruptor? Pretty sure that already happened? no? My super safety did it with my AP5. But I was responding to a previous poster who was expressing their concern about it. And my opinion is to never trust it and you'll be fine. |
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Originally Posted By networkguru: How about the Disruptor? Pretty sure that already happened? no? My super safety did it with my AP5. But I was responding to a previous poster who was expressing their concern about it. And my opinion is to never trust it and you'll be fine. It is theoretically possible with any trigger system that actively resets in the standard semi auto position, when coupled with a malfunction. The LAT doesn't have the capacity to actively reset in the standard semi auto position, so the possibility of a malfunction is the same as any other semi auto trigger. That is why the trigger pull in standard semi is so nice. |
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Originally Posted By Ben: It is theoretically possible with any trigger system that actively resets in the standard semi auto position, when coupled with a malfunction. The LAT doesn't have the capacity to actively reset in the standard semi auto position, so the possibility of a malfunction is the same as any other semi auto trigger. That is why the trigger pull in standard semi is so nice. Last week, a guy on the next bench over from me had an AR with a nice cartridge-type trigger (no need to mention the brand) TRIPLE BURST on him. And that trigger was NOT DESIGNED for active reset! We flushed it out with lightweight oil, and it went back to normal functioning. Just a little crud in the wrong spot can cause it. |
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I needed some FRT therapy due to stresses incurred because of an upcoming ARFCOM curse (divorce). I was using my green Disruptor and a Colt 6921 upper with a YHM 5.56 Phantom (steel) suppressor. I was getting a lot of soft primer strikes and failures to do more than 3-5 rounds in the 3rd position. All are NATO USGI or IMO loads. None are reloads. Do I need the new hammer spring? |
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Originally Posted By leemozoid: I needed some FRT therapy due to stresses incurred because of an upcoming ARFCOM curse (divorce). I was using my green Disruptor and a Colt 6921 upper with a YHM 5.56 Phantom (steel) suppressor. I was getting a lot of soft primer strikes and failures to do more than 3-5 rounds in the 3rd position. All are NATO USGI or IMO loads. None are reloads. Do I need the new hammer spring? What’s your buffer? Three sliding tungsten weights in an aluminum body? |
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Originally Posted By leemozoid: I needed some FRT therapy due to stresses incurred because of an upcoming ARFCOM curse (divorce). I was using my green Disruptor and a Colt 6921 upper with a YHM 5.56 Phantom (steel) suppressor. I was getting a lot of soft primer strikes and failures to do more than 3-5 rounds in the 3rd position. All are NATO USGI or IMO loads. None are reloads. Do I need the new hammer spring? What buffer do you have in it? Logically, if it works in standard semi, it probably isn't the spring. |
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Originally Posted By leemozoid: I needed some FRT therapy due to stresses incurred because of an upcoming ARFCOM curse (divorce). I was using my green Disruptor and a Colt 6921 upper with a YHM 5.56 Phantom (steel) suppressor. I was getting a lot of soft primer strikes and failures to do more than 3-5 rounds in the 3rd position. All are NATO USGI or IMO loads. None are reloads. Do I need the new hammer spring? If this is the one that I sent back to you, it has the new spring. What brand and weight of buffer are you using? |
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Originally Posted By ELittlefield: What’s your buffer? Three sliding tungsten weights in an aluminum body? Originally Posted By ELittlefield: Originally Posted By leemozoid: I needed some FRT therapy due to stresses incurred because of an upcoming ARFCOM curse (divorce). I was using my green Disruptor and a Colt 6921 upper with a YHM 5.56 Phantom (steel) suppressor. I was getting a lot of soft primer strikes and failures to do more than 3-5 rounds in the 3rd position. All are NATO USGI or IMO loads. None are reloads. Do I need the new hammer spring? What’s your buffer? Three sliding tungsten weights in an aluminum body? Yes. It's a Tromix H3 with sliding weights. |
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Originally Posted By HelpfulGuerilla: If this is the one that I sent back to you, it has the new spring. What brand and weight of buffer are you using? Originally Posted By HelpfulGuerilla: Originally Posted By leemozoid: I needed some FRT therapy due to stresses incurred because of an upcoming ARFCOM curse (divorce). I was using my green Disruptor and a Colt 6921 upper with a YHM 5.56 Phantom (steel) suppressor. I was getting a lot of soft primer strikes and failures to do more than 3-5 rounds in the 3rd position. All are NATO USGI or IMO loads. None are reloads. Do I need the new hammer spring? If this is the one that I sent back to you, it has the new spring. What brand and weight of buffer are you using? No, this is one I already had. The one you sent is in a different lower. |
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Triggered [Formerly Partisan] Talk (Page 38 of 40)
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