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Posted: 10/25/2004 8:07:28 AM EST
I'm looking for some CQB glass to mount on my M4 clone. I've been looking hard at the EOTech and the AIMPoint. I recently read an article about a guy who went to Gunsite with a EOTech mounted on his AR and was told by the instructor to "stand by for problems". He also stated that in his class 6 other EOTechs went down. He didn't state how or why they went down however.

So my question is, what are the problems seen with EOTechs? What are the problems seen with AIMPoints? Is there another sight that I should look at?

Thanks

Devin
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 8:18:56 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 8:40:34 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 9:47:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 10:31:31 AM EST by jar3ds]
let me guess... you read pat roger's swat article?

pat is one of the most experienced users of ar15's that i know of... he see's very nice setup's everyday in the courses he runs... he sees a lot of gear in real use...

through his experience he has found that the rate at which eotechs fail is a lot more than that of aimpoints... not to say aimpoints never fail... but they do less than eotechs...

giffman (fr. ar15.com) and I went to the range a month ago... i was busy zeroing my aimpoint... and he was getting ready.... as soon as he turned his eotech on and fired his first shot... his eotech went out on him... i can't remember what he said acually happend but at the time we didn't know if it malfunctioned or the batteries just went out... either way... aimpoint has eotech beat on reliablity and battery life... and gifford quickly switched his optic to an aimpoint... but as i understand it he's going to give them another try on his new midlength build...

i do like eotech's reticle... its a little more smaller and i like that... but its reliablity doesn't justify it for me... i can make consistant shots with my aimpoint from 0-300m all day... and that is good enough for me... if you do just REALLY want an eotech... i'd recomend getting a fixed BUIS even if it slows you down... i have a flip up on my aimpoint carbine and i keep it down for the most part... i trust my aimpoint enough not to worry about having a fixed BUIS... and if my aimpoint did fail within 25m's... look at the next paragraph

this last weekend at the range i decided to repeat lumpy's ghost ring aimpoint down drill... and his experiement was repeatable... from 25's... i was able to make excellent hits... sometimes it was scarry how good it was... ... within 25m when no cover is availble for the action of flipping up my rear BUIS isn't usally allowed... you must place a round fast and accurately... this is where the aimpoint comes in nice with this ghost ring technique that pat rogers talks about... if i got enough distance/cover... the buis can be flipped up in a second...

i also don't like the errgonomics of eotechs i find it ackward to activate it... but maybe i'm just too used to my aimpoint...
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 10:24:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By jar3ds:
let me guess... you read pat roger's swat article? [;-)]

pat is one of the most experienced users of ar15's that i know of... he see's very nice setup's everyday in the courses he runs... he sees a lot of gear in real use...
quote]


Yep...that's the article I was reading and yes, I trust Pat's opinion more than most.

Thanks for your insight. This is what I was looking for. Looks like Aimpoint is the one I'll be going with.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 10:25:50 AM EST
wise decision devin! carry on...
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 10:42:44 AM EST
jar3ds,

I was looking at your carbine....very nice set up!

How do you like that magpul stock?

Thanks

Devin
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 11:00:37 AM EST
the magpul stock is the best purchase i made for my gun... well the aimpoint is very close...

but i have a lot of bitterness stored up from my army days of fighting the a2 buttstock... it was so anoying and long... the magpul gave me a fixed stock in any position... it is beautiful... i can't say enough good things about it... get one... it is so worth it!
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:04:59 PM EST
Very goods points all around. I tested the EOtechs for my dept and while I was very impressed by the glass and excellent field of view the sight just kept going down on us, we had one set of controls break and one glass crack. Now granted this was about 3 yrs ago and I really do believe they have improved and would consider them to be an top notch optic but...

The Aimpoint just never goes down , never a glitch or breakage. I have an old Comp M ! on my M4 and after over 30K rds and many differnet and very rugged courses it has never let me down.

In fact I'm taking the FBI's Carbine Instructor School this week (today was day one) and the guy next to me had an EOtech go down after the first 30 minutes.

Good luck , I think either way you'll get a good optic
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 4:11:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By SMGLee:
Grant is right on. both company will back their product 100%.

As far as any other optic, there is no other optic. Aimpoint and EOTech are the best there is on the market.



Exactly. They both are great with no real short commings that come to mind.

Take my advice though, dont say you dont like either one in the rain
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 4:12:54 PM EST
I've witnessed one go down on day 2 of a class for no apparent reason. The unit was not dropped, batteries were fresh and even exchanged for newer ones, but still no reticle. Then, a few relays later it miraculously started working again. It was like the unit was haunted; maybe they built the factory on an old Indian burial ground or something. That's the same class where my TA11 went haywire. All brands have failures now and then, even Tacpint.



Link Posted: 10/25/2004 4:51:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kisara:
All brands have failures now and then, even Tacpint.






I call BS. No way a Tacpoint could go down.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:04:54 PM EST
The first time I ever took my Eotech 552E to the range, it did not work. At first I thought because it was a bright sunny day I was not seeing reticule and should crank up the intensity. Still nothing. I opened the battery compartment just to look. Tried again and there was the reticule.

While I like my 552, I like my Aimpoints more.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 6:46:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 6:50:01 PM EST by rvb]
I've often wondered if some of these "mysterious" times it didn't work when turned on or adjusted, or started working a few hours later, or upon removing/reinserting batteries, etc, were a result of accidently hitting the NV button on models so equiped.

Going totally TU or cracking is a different story, but I seem to hear more of the "hmmm, now it works?" stories.

Just a thought. The possibility of anything electronic going TU is why I have a fixed BUIS behind my 551F. Line up and keep shooting.....

rvb
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 7:29:15 PM EST
I don't know if the one at my class was NV equipped or not. If so, and if the other cases are too- could it really be 100% operator error or poor ergonomic design? In darkness, even with gloves, there are no mistakes turning on an Aimpoint.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 9:31:10 PM EST
Glad I sent the Eotech back and got an Aimpoint.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 3:13:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 11:02:21 PM EST
The EOTEchs are very robust. However, the electronics are more complicated and is realtively newer technology (at least in such a small package), therefore you will expect to see more problems than with the simpler and older Aimpoint technology. The electronics are being improved upon fairly often and the newer models will have less problems out of the box than older ones. Once the EOTech has been around as long as the Aimpoint has been now, I'm sure the problems will become as rare.

Any piece of electronic gear can fail. That is why you have irons and that is why you shouldn't go into any dangerous situation without having throughly worked with the equipment mounted on your weapon. The great majority of EOTech problems come straight out of the box. The even greater number of EOTechs that do not have problems out of the box very, very rarely experience malfunctions. With EOTech's customer service as good as it is, there are no worries when buying and using an EOTech.
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