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Posted: 10/15/2004 8:57:34 AM EST
I, like many others have done before me, am building an A4gery.

I see that the Marines are issuing A4’s to their infantry with or without a TA31F (RCO).
(Why I haven’t seen a back-up iron sight with a TA31F bewilders me).

I’d like to know who is being issued an M16A4 in the Army? The pictures I’ve seen generally show the infantry using M4’s, though I have seen some with M16A4’s. (Remember that guy from the 4th ID with the goofy furry-flage on his helmet and the huge scope on his A4? – I’ll try and find the picture).

Does anybody know who is getting the M16A4? I’m assuming that most are using irons or M68CCO’s. Besides privately purchased scopes, has anybody seen the regular army use other optics on the A4’s?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 9:18:23 AM EST
I spoke with a Marine infantry radioman the other day based out of Kaneohe Marine Bace here in Hawaii regarding their new equipment. He said they were issued the A4's and were excercising them at the range. They download the 30rd. mags. to 25rds. because of feeding issues and the weapon has the rails up front which makes it heavier to carry around all day. The higher up's are given the M4's because they're lighter but basically they're the same rifle (?).
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 9:27:07 AM EST
i have an A4gery and there are no feeding problems. Explain if you can?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 9:31:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By 20iner:
i have an A4gery and there are no feeding problems. Explain if you can?



I think he is saying the feeding issues are Magazine related. You have to remember at military ranges often the magazines issued are old, dirty and bent up. While usually newer mags are issued on an actual deployment, it seems like the ranges always had the same old worn-out mags.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 9:38:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 9:39:41 AM EST by 3ACR_Scout]

Originally Posted By PE556:
Does anybody know who is getting the M16A4? I’m assuming that most are using irons or M68CCO’s. Besides privately purchased scopes, has anybody seen the regular army use other optics on the A4’s?



Believe it or not, the first guys I saw in my unit with M16A4s were our combat engineers - in Oct 01.

They didn't have any extra optics at the time, and I haven't seen them in the field recently, so I can't really answer the second question. Our troops / companies all have M68 (Aimpoint) red dot sights, but not sure what else at the moment.

Dave
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 9:43:52 AM EST
hey scout

What are you guys carrying? M4's?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 9:49:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 9:51:56 AM EST by Lumpy196]
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:42:38 AM EST
im with lumpy on this one...i smell some poo

for Marines going to a range they get the mags from the armorer when they draw the weapon. not at the range. i have no idea why they would advocate downloading.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:17:20 AM EST
Lumpy,

I see your point about the durability of the ACOG v. no BUIS. I've never had problems with mine.

But, why wouldn't they issue one though, the original SOPMOD kit had them, the regular Army uses them behind their Aimpoints, etc. Occasionally, you'll see Marines with their carry handle sight mounted on the forend, but often not.

Does anybody know if that is the back-up plan, use the carry handle?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:32:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By PE556:
Lumpy,

I see your point about the durability of the ACOG v. no BUIS. I've never had problems with mine.

But, why wouldn't they issue one though, the original SOPMOD kit had them, the regular Army uses them behind their Aimpoints, etc. Occasionally, you'll see Marines with their carry handle sight mounted on the forend, but often not.

Does anybody know if that is the back-up plan, use the carry handle?


The Carry handle is the official Back-Up Iron Sight.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:47:48 AM EST
The Marines don't issue a BUIS...at least my unit didn't and no other units in the area did either. I just got back from Iraq. I mostly saw M68 optics in Army units but did see a few TA31s on M4s in Army units there. I don't know what kind of units they were. The ACOGs weren't too common in Army units where I was. There aren't a lot of M16A4s in the Army as far as I have seen. There are a lot of M4s with flattops and rail systems though.

There is a grunt rumor in the Marine Corps that you need to download your magazines in order to have them function properly. I personally have always carried my magazines fully loaded and never had a problem nor did anyone else that I know. The rail systems do make the front end heavier but a good three point sling seems to solve that problem as far as carrying the rifle all day long. We haven't had any feeding problems that amount to anything. All feeding problems in the A4s that I have seen were caused by faulty magazines. We deployed with new magazines and didn't have a problem there. Marines are issued magazines and keep them with them. The hardest problem that I had with troops was getting them to turn in a magazine to the armory when it was found to be unreliable. Junior elnisted Marines like to get lazy...big surprise there!!! Too much of a hassle to turn in magazines when you are moving at the speed of liberty!!
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:52:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 12:35:03 PM EST
I can tell you from experience that many USMC units still believe that you have to download magazines for proper function, and that keeping full mags will damage them. In one unit it was SOP to load 28 rounds in each mag. Our react ammo was pre-loaded in mags and downloaded (they said it would wear out the springs with a full mag). Ironically each week at change over, the mags were emptied, rounds counted, and then re-loaded. Most of the bull crap rumors about weapons i heard in the Marines from people supposedly "in the know". Stuff like how the 5.56 tumbled around inside people (this was around 1999 mind you), or how the bullet actually risesbefore it drops (It's flight characteristics, not how it was aimed). I can see it is real possible that someone in that unit probably used one with a bad magazine and thaught he was so smart by sugesting that downloading the mags would make it better, and the CO liked it.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 1:02:57 PM EST
yeah lots of BS floating around. but uh...a bullet DOES climb slightly when it exits the muzzle. ballisticians chime in please
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 1:05:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
yeah lots of BS floating around. but uh...a bullet DOES climb slightly when it exits the muzzle. ballisticians chime in please


Nope, gravity. If the muzzle is dead level, the bullet will only fall.
Now, if you hold the muzzle above level, you are applying an "upward" component of force that causes it to rise.
There isn't anything to provide lift. Bullets are spin stabilized, not drag stabilized.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 1:09:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By PE556:
hey scout

What are you guys carrying? M4's?



We have a big mix of M4A1s and M16A2. They're gradually replacing the M16A2s with more M4s, but staff, support people, and a lot of scouts are still assigned M16A2s right now. The scouts mainly get them because they use them in the M203 configuration - a 2-man dismout team in the back of a Cav Bradley has an M203 and an M240B. A good deal of firepower for 2 guys.

Dave
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 1:25:33 PM EST
My Infantry company fielded M-16A4's at Ft Carson in Oct of 01. They were referbed' FN M-16A2's with new upper receivers (detachable carrying handle). In mid 2002, I fielded the Knights RAS handguards for both the 13 M-4 carbines my company had and the 102 M-16A4's my company had. This was in a Regular army mechanized Infantry battalion.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 6:34:58 PM EST
No BS, and think what you want. He said they downloaded to 25 rds. which kind of shocked me. I asked him if they were issued 20 or 30 round mags. and he said they use the 30's. I then asked if they downloaded to 28 rds., which I do, and he said "no, 25 rds.".
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:24:08 PM EST
Ok, so are most of the Marines headed to the Middle East getting the A4's now? Anyone know how many A2s compared to A4s the Marines are using over there now? Just hoping I get an A4 next year cuz I love my flat tops
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