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Posted: 8/25/2004 9:01:14 PM EDT
[#1]
I just picked up an LMT lower from Denny's Guns. To be honest, I can't tell any difference from my RRA and a friends two Bushies. They are good lowers and a nice match for your upper. For the money, why not go with an LMT?
BTW, Denny has some DSA lowers in stock right now. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 10:13:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Yeah, as much as their uppers are heralded, their lowers are... well, kinda average.
I'll prolly go Ameetec for my next build. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 10:21:33 PM EDT
[#3]
I have two of the Lauer's. I also have an RRA that I can compare it to and will have some Ameetec's shortly. I'll write a short review and take some pics tomorrow. I didn't buy mine to build, but rather to collect. The LCW roll makr can't be beaten! I also plan to add some DSA's to my collection, but not quite yet.
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Posted: 8/25/2004 11:08:54 PM EDT
[#4]
Well you need to look again. A bushie is a alot different. Weep hole, low internal shelf, non reinforced rear pivot detent spring area. I have alot of both. Lauer & Bushie. |
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Posted: 8/26/2004 3:18:09 AM EDT
[#5]
What about compared to other brands like Spirit Arms and so on?
Buey, that's the kind of info I was looking for. If LMT made a lower with their name and logo, I'd get that to go with the upper. -Steve |
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Posted: 8/26/2004 2:14:54 PM EDT
[#6]
They do make lowers. It is called the "defender". Marked LMT.
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Posted: 8/26/2004 6:35:13 PM EDT
[#7]
And where do us common folk obtain a LMT Defender lower?
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Posted: 8/26/2004 7:44:21 PM EDT
[#8]
We don't. |
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Posted: 8/27/2004 12:45:09 PM EDT
[#9]
The say DEFENDER 2000
I have two. 
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Posted: 8/27/2004 5:13:21 PM EDT
[#10]
BUEY & SPOOGE
Where do we common folk aquire 1 of these? |
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Posted: 8/27/2004 6:44:17 PM EDT
[#11]
You surf the EE and hope you win.
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Posted: 8/27/2004 7:33:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Yeap EE.
Jumped on them. |
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Posted: 8/27/2004 9:51:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Sammy is confused. What is EE?
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Posted: 8/27/2004 11:25:14 PM EDT
[#14]
<Shakes head> EE = Equipmenr Exchange. Try the tab beneath the AR15.COM logo in the upper left corner of your screen. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 12:45:32 AM EDT
[#15]
Thanx. Corporal_Chaos
Sammy
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Posted: 8/28/2004 1:16:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Here ya go.
My two for your viewing pleasure.  and the right side 
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Posted: 8/28/2004 5:37:34 PM EDT
[#17]
Do you own a LMT made lower? |
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Posted: 8/29/2004 8:08:00 AM EDT
[#18]
Spooge5150,
I like how they have the place of manufacture over by the logo to leave the sides clean. Could do without the Government only BS though. Thanks for the great pic's. -Steve |
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Posted: 8/31/2004 3:42:42 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 9/1/2004 1:56:17 PM EDT
[#20]
I do and I wouldn't even rank it as average. I'd be more inclined to say below average. I have built lowers from RRA, Eagle Arms, Bushmaster and now LMT\PWA. From the pics I've seen, (compared to the experiences I've had with the four mentioned), Not_A_Llama's recommendation to get a Ameetec is an excellent one. |
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Posted: 9/1/2004 2:50:51 PM EDT
[#21]
Wow, all the ones I have seen (several dozen) have been great. Do you have any pics? |
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Posted: 9/1/2004 5:52:31 PM EDT
[#22]
You have based your opinion on a picture?  Your kidding right? |
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Posted: 9/1/2004 5:54:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Oh BTW.
It would suprise you to know who LMT makes lowers for. 
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Posted: 9/1/2004 7:17:25 PM EDT
[#24]
Who besides Lauer and DSA???????? |
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Posted: 9/2/2004 4:37:54 AM EDT
[#25]
Maybe I either needed to word that better or you need to re-read what I wrote. The only opinion I based (partially) off of a picture is that of and Ameetec lower. I have first hand experience with all of the other receivers I mentioned.
Not of my specific lower but here's a pics posted by Denny of the LMT\DSA lowers he's selling. The one in his pic looks a little better than the one I got but still some of the same shoddy details...   The finish is rough, almost like some lint or something landed on them before the finish dried. Look at the cut out for the mag release, its milled off center (same as on mine). Maybe it's the photo in this case but the stampings look very amateurish too. On the lower I received, the mag well is very tight to the point where almost none of my mags drop free and my mag block will not fit at all. Let me just say that I do not think they are complete POS's. They work and get the job done which in the end is all that matters but for the money I believe there are better options |
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Posted: 9/2/2004 4:40:15 AM EDT
[#26]
I pretty much who makes what for everyone, but a public forum ain't the place.
Denny |
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Posted: 9/2/2004 5:16:18 AM EDT
[#27]
Yep, that pretty much sums up LMT, amateurish. That's why their stuff is bought by the thousands by the US Military, civilian contractors, folks who rely on their weapons for their very lives. I am sure there are scads of Ameetecs etc. in the sandbox instead of these shoddy LMTs
 As for the pic, hey it was not professionally lit, just shot with a flash with my Olympus digital. I don't claim to be a good photographer. Most of my pics suck. REMEMBER LMT is primarily a military contractor. They build parts to the milspec, no teflon finish etc. Their guns, parts etc get used and used damn hard and the armed professionals keep them so busy it is hard to even get their stuff. Just be glad they make it available to civvies at all. I know Dave at DSA for years and Steve at Lauer is one of the pickiest guys I know when it comes to weapons. They could have had their lowers made by anyone. Why do you suppose they went with LMT? Low price? I don't think so. They simply wanted the best available. You want to see some ugly shit look at an FN M16 built for the Army or Marines. I have held and shot quite a few. They would not satisfy any safe queen builder, but they run like a MF and work every time. If you could buy a genuine FN lower or rifle if they were available? Damn right most of you would. But some would say the markings were "amateurish". And the finish was poor. I am sure I have owned and sold more genuine Colt M16s than anyone on this board. Some have had half the roll mark missing. Light strikes, mismatched colored uppers and lowers, runs in the anodizing, dents, dings and scratches under the anodizing. BUT they all ran perfectly and all parts fit properly and all parts were 100% interchangeable. The goverment does not care all that much about such minor issues. They want weapons GIs can bet their lives on and armors can work on. If a person is going to base their opinion on a picture or just on cosmetics or dis a product without every owning or building with said products fine. I just go with what has passed the test of time and my personal experience of many years with the M16 and the AR15. Amateurish to describe LMT is like saying Colt and FN are amateurs. I have sold a couple hundred LMT lowers and there has never been one returned. No one has ever had a problem with parts fitting. LMT is in the business of making professional grade weapons and accessories for armed professionals. Denny |
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Posted: 9/2/2004 5:53:06 AM EDT
[#28]
Is this a bad finish? Nope. The camera can take a good pic or not so good pic.
This pic has more detail than Denny's. Same quaility lower though.  Nice response Denny. LMT is A+ period. |
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Posted: 9/2/2004 7:20:37 AM EDT
[#29]
Would a private IM be the place?  If so, drop me a line. 
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Posted: 9/2/2004 9:30:48 AM EDT
[#30]
First off, please comment on what I actually write and not on what you think I wrote. My opinion is not based on pictures, I have owned (and assembled) stripped lowers from the following companies... PWA\LMT RRA Eagle Arms Bushmaster The only lower I have made any comments about without having first hand experience with is Ameetec but there is more than enough information posted about these on this forum if anybody is interested. Your picture is just fine and is pretty representative of the PWA\LMT lower I have. I realize that finish quality is not everything but IMO, does represent a companies commitment to quality. That aside, I pointed out two issues that have nothing to do with finish quality. Both were machining related issues that you choose to ignore. Instead you choose to focus on who's stuff is used in the sand box and who's isn't (like that means anything) and how bad FN's finish quality is (again, not really relevant to this discussion as they are not available to anyone outside of the USG). The simply truth is this, you can buy a LMT\whoever marked lower receiver for between $100-$120 or you can buy an Ameetec for $85. Both are generally in spec and will work just fine. The Ameetec, will have a better finish (from what I've seen anyway), and will accept a RDAIS and costs less. Seems like an easy choice to me for most situations. Just so we are clear, I have an LMT M4 upper that I am generally happy with. It's finish left something to be desired too but this is not a safe queen. I bought the PWA\LMT lower in an attempt to have a complete LMT carbine. If LMT starts selling complete lowers (without the LEO-only markings) after the sunset, I will buy one to accomplish my goal. If nothing else this should clue you into the fact that I do not hate nor feel the need to bash LMT but I feel people need to get the whole picture when they ask about some specific product. |
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Posted: 9/2/2004 9:41:07 AM EDT
[#31]
I'm sorry but I have to disagree. There is nothing wrong with Denny's picture. I say that because it looks just like the one I have. I will agree (based of off what I can see in your picture) that your LMT marked lower seems to have a better finish. All that means (at best) is that they are not consistent. |
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Posted: 9/2/2004 12:16:53 PM EDT
[#32]
I do and I wouldn't even rank it as average. I'd be more inclined to say below average. Really? How? What is average to you?
I have first hand experience with all of the other receivers I mentioned. Except Ameetec which you push for. The Ameetec, will have a better finish (from what I've seen anyway), and will accept a RDAIS and costs less. But you don't own one, just have seen pictures. Just so we are clear, I have an LMT M4 upper that I am generally happy with. It's finish left something to be desired too but this is not a safe queen. So which came first? The below average lower or upper? You thought one was bad enough that you bought the other? All that means (at best) is that they are not consistent. Based on your vast exposure to all the LMT products. Well it seems (at best) that most people who own LMT made stuff, think they are above average. Why you came on this thread and started your anti-LMT rhetoric is beyond me. If you don't like their stuff, run away, sell all your LMT stuff and move on. Every LMT piece I have seen is very good quaility. Why don't you start a LMT thread that deals with all the bad experiences people have had with them, and I will be happy to sit back and take it all in. Show me facts to back up your statements. ETA: Take some pics of your LMT stuff so we can see the problems you write of. |
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Posted: 9/2/2004 4:41:06 PM EDT
[#33]
This first picture is of the receiver directly out of the cabinet. It illustrates two things. This first is the white haze. Regardless of what oil\lubricant I use on it or how long I soak it for, this haze re-develops generally within 48 hours. I have owned 4 other receivers and none of them have had this problem. Issue # 2 is the obvious off center machining of the bump-out around the magazine catch.  The second picture was taking after applying a coat of CLP than using compressed air to dry it off. My camera\picture taking skills do not fully illustrate the poor finish and multiple surface imperfections but I tried to point out a few just to give you an idea. These are more obvious in person.  The final and most serious issue is the poor milling of the magazine area. I have no idea how to photograph that in a way that would "prove" anything but as I stated above, it was milled very tight. Tight to the point where most of my mags have to slammed in very hard in order to load. So tight that my mag action block will not engage the mag catch without hammering it in and then hammering it back out. I will admit that other than the mag area milling issue, none of the issues I have shown are really a big deal for a "working gun". That said, they can in no way be considered attributes of a"very good quality" product as you claim. If this isn't enough "proof" for you or anybody else then O'well as it is as much proof as I will waste my time providing. |
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Posted: 9/2/2004 7:02:43 PM EDT
[#34]
I have examined LMT lowers. I've examined my Bushmaster and RRA lowers. The latter exhibited better fit, finish, and workmanship than the LMT. My Colts are better than all three. A Colt lower (when you can get them) costs less than the LMT. The RRA cost less than half the LMT. I think LMT is hurrying up their civilian semi sales to get their stuff out there for the AWB sunset. I'll likely get an LMT, but it will be when they get it together. I'm not seeing a $300+ lower. If the outside fit, finish, and machining is slack, you can bet the inside is. I remember way back in the day when all the hype (mainly silly gun mags that love every product that buys ad space) went out about the Randall stainless .45. I bought one based on the hype and it was a piece of crap. Randall went down the tubes. I waited until RRA got right to get RRA uppers and lowers. I'll wait until the LMT honeymoon hype is over before I shell out a 100% premium for a lower that is no better than my RRA or Bushmaster. In the alternative, please tell me what it is about guts of an LMT that makes it special?
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Posted: 9/3/2004 4:49:00 AM EDT
[#35]
LMTs 100% more??????????
I haven't seen any $64 lowers for sale on the EE or anywhere else. Anyone else getting lowers for $64? As to the while stuff on the lower pictured. That was the result of some bozo whiting in the PWA lettering on the lower and leaving paint residue. As to the "centering of the Mag catch" that is a function of the assembler. The position of the mag catch is determined by how you thread it into the mag catch button. Jeesh. Come on if you are gonna be critical at least exhibit some knowledge of the system. Denny |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 5:21:59 AM EDT
[#36]
You know, I understand you being touchy about a product you carry but you are losing some serious creditability with comments like that. Put on your glasses, look at the picture again and start using your brain. The recess that the mag catch sits in is not milled in the center of the raised section that surrounds it. This is milling mistake pure and simply. The fact that you somehow think it is an assembly issue is pretty scary.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 5:33:41 AM EDT
[#37]
Heh heh.... Denny, those awful blemished receivers sure looked good at your shop the other day bro !!
 I`ll be in to pick up a couple soon!!
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Posted: 9/3/2004 5:40:40 AM EDT
[#38]
I bought a LMT made LCW lower from Denny just a month or so ago. I think it was like $120-$130 ( srry, don't remember exactly). But this lower is beautiful. I also have a PWA lower like the one pictured above. Mine looks nowhere even close to that one, the finish still looks primo ( minius the few blemishes I've added due to use).
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Posted: 9/3/2004 5:49:13 AM EDT
[#39]
Same here, mine are flawless!!
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Posted: 9/3/2004 10:33:30 AM EDT
[#40]
Has the receiver with the white hazed ever been wiped off with a paper towell?
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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:26:44 PM EDT
[#41]
I'm glad to see some complaints and issues discussed for these lowers. I simply want to know what to expect. I don't care about the finish since I intend to have the lower refinished in Black-T.
Overly tight magazine wells though, that is a concern. Anyone else having these problems? -Steve |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:47:53 PM EDT
[#42]
I don't have an lmt lower but do have a rra lower/complete weapon. The lower was very tight in the mag well for a while. With a little use, it has loosened up quit nicely. I figured it was just the same kind of thing as the lower being tight fitting to the upper. With some use that too has become an easier task to complete. Just my 2cents and I don't want to sword fight.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 6:34:42 PM EDT
[#43]
I have 4 rifles I built for myself using LMT/Lauer Lowers and a pre-ban PWA serial number 794X.
I know the PWA is LMT manufactured because the weep hole for the front take down spring tunnel is missing. That said I went to a box of the shittiest magazines in the shop. These were a gift from a buddy in the 82nd. They were gonna pitch the mags so he brought them to me for parts. They have been in the box for over 2 years. Anyway I grabbed four at random and tried them in all my LMT lowers and the PWA. When I hit the mag release button they all fired out the bottom and smacked the floor. Now any company can turn out a bummer from time to time, but my experience is not based on one or two lowers. It is based on so damn many I can't count them all, most likely in the hundreds. Maybe our complaining part just got a bad one, shit happens. Here is a pic of the mags I tested for the drop-free test.  Beauties every one of them. And they shoot out the bottom of my rifles like a bullet. As to the whiting on the receiver pictured. Why are the logo and lettering white? if no one filled them in with paint or china marker. In my experience the only time I have seen a receiver that looked like that is when someone whited in the lettering and some of the paint got into the anodizing and it is a bitch to get out. I have never seen a lower come from any manufacturer with white lettering and the typical smear marks around said lettering. Why is it there are no other 'white' areas or the lower? All the best for a great holiday to my friends on ARF. Denny |
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Posted: 9/4/2004 5:07:42 AM EDT
[#44]
OOOOOOOOOOOO you put me in my place!  You: "Where did I call the LMT upper "below average"?" See your first reply to this thread Your exact words "I do and I wouldn't even rank it as average. I'd be more inclined to say below average."You: "What is beyond me is how someone like yourself has the arrogance to jump all over me and basically accuse me of lying simply because my experience and\or opinion does not match your own?" Oh but your opinion on this thread, jumping on Denny and shiting on his product line was not arrogance because how?  Let's agree to disagree. |
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Posted: 9/4/2004 6:56:13 AM EDT
[#45]
No, I use a used the same procedure on this lower as I've done on the other that I have owned which is to completely soak it in CLP, let it sit for 1/2 - 1 hour and then wipe down with an old t-shirt then re-apply as needed after that. This is the only lower I have that has this issue.
Denny, believe what you will but I can tell you 100% that this lower has never had it's lettering filled in with anything. The whole lower develops a white haze, not just where there is lettering. I'm sorry if you felt like I was "shitting" on your product. That was not my intention. I was simply related my experience.
This is a good example of one of the reasons these "fights" break out here sometimes. People jumping on somebody for something they didn't even say. My rating of below average was clearly directed at LMT lowers, not their uppers. I never referred to their uppers as below average.
Because I was relating my own personal experience which is what the original poster asked for. I wasn't attacking you, Denny or anybody else for sharing opinions\experiences that didn't match my own.
This I can agree with. I think everybody has said what they need to and this horse is officially dead. Maybe I got the "1 bad one in a million" and maybe not but now Stevenb has a more complete picture in which to base his decision on. Enjoy your weekend guys  |
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Posted: 9/4/2004 7:03:11 AM EDT
[#46]
CVG
If ya want you can send that lower to me and we can check it out for ya. Cleaning up the mag well a bit is not problem and we DuraCoat an upper and lower for you for a perfect finish. No charge. I know you were not trying to shit on me or my products. I have just never experienced the problems stated with any of the lowers we have come in contact with. Denny |
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Posted: 9/4/2004 7:25:52 AM EDT
[#47]
....and this is why i will continue to buy products from Denny. I purchased a LMT built LCW lower, and the thing is perfect. Denny kicks ass. Sometimes even great manufacturers let a sub par product slip by. sometimes a monday morning produced piece of equipment wont match up to what the builder usually makes. Shit happens. When or if you buy a product that is below your expectations, send it back to where you bought it. Denny is making a gracious offer to fix a problem that he isnt even connected to. Now that is customer service. |
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Posted: 9/4/2004 5:44:43 PM EDT
[#48]
Thanks Denny for the reply.
I'm hoping to hear when LMT plans to offer lowers to the civilians population with their own logo on them. If no time soon, I might just have to get the Lauer one with the LMT two stage trigger group and the KNS trigger pins. I apreciate cgv69's posts as well. It shows some real opinions about a product. Thanks, -Steve |
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Posted: 9/4/2004 6:18:45 PM EDT
[#49]
I have a few PWA receivers, and none of them have tight magwells or the white haze. Just adding data, not flames.
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Posted: 9/4/2004 6:49:12 PM EDT
[#50]
Having seen and used more LMT receivers than anybody else on this site - in excess of 500 to date - I have to say at best that they are average from a commercial standpoint.
From a military standpoint, we have had more OUT OF SPEC LMT lowers than any other brand. Most of what we use is Colt because, although you may not like it, they are the best. HFG |
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). In this case, Stevenb asked for people's opinions regarding LMT made lowers and specifically "how the quality is on LMT's lowers compared to the other brands out there?". I related my experience. What is beyond me is how someone like yourself has the arrogance to jump all over me and basically accuse me of lying simply because my experience and\or opinion does not match your own?