I've always been a handgun guy, but lately I've started reading up on AR15s and now I find that I'm spending more time thinking about ARs than my GLOCKS. Anyway, I'm still a total n00b, and I've been trying to digest the mountains of information on black rifles, but it's a little overwhelming. This forum has been a big help. Today I ordered my first AR. I decided for my first AR to order a complete rifle, and would add to it. Once I feel comfortable with it, I'm sure I'll start building my own. I've always been a tinkerer, so I think (cash-wise) this is going to be a very dangerous hobby for me. I was back and forth between the RRA Elite and the Bushmaster Modular. I finally ordered an RRA Elite CAR 4 w/  A.R.M.S. #40 Flip Up Rear Sight and A.R.M.S. #58 M Mid-length S.I.R. Rail Guard. How did I do for my first AR? It should be here Thursday, and I can't wait. Here's a picture: http://www.twowiresthin.com/images/RRA_Elite_car_A4_SIR.jpg Now I'm researching lights, optics and bipods....

Don't get a bipod, there is no point on a carbine. For an optic, look into ACOG, Reflex, EOtech and Aimpoints.

sounds like a great AR (kinda steep to begin w/, but a great AR!) lights: pentagon and surefire bipods: +1 on not really useful on carbines, but Harris are great optics: EoTech, ACOG, Leupold, and Aimpoint.....depending on your uses

Nice. -1 on the Bipod.  Get a harris BRM-S and an ARMS adapter --- then you can mount it on anything with a rail.  Most think it isn't useful on a carbine, but I think it depends on what your doing with it....if your clearing rooms or home defense, then NO, but if your shooting prarie dogs, bench shooting, or other stable platform types, then they are great.  Remember that little 16" barrel will reach out and touch things several hundred yards.... Happy shooting!!!

needs more Eotech

mags

congrats on the new toy..... i am looking at getting one as well.  i think i will start with a used bushmaster, 20" bbl, two stage trigger, weighted buttstock, im not sure what else it has.  i am looking forward to taking it out and having some fun.   i agree that this forum has been most helpful in finding info on what to look for. have fun and good luck gotebo

Thanks for all the helpful info/suggestions. I want to learn to shoot with the iron sights before I move on to optical sights. That said, I will be purchasing an EOTech 552.A65 as they seem to have excellent "real world" value. I'd also like to get a tac light/laser that I move between my G19 and the S.I.R. rails. Any suggestions on such a product? Useful? Or is the laser pointless/redundant with the EOTech? A forward grip also seems like it would be a useful addition. Any suggestions on ammo for practice/SD? I was going to pick up a case of Wolf FMJ at Wally world this morning, but would like to hear some thoughts from the experts. Thanks again for the warm welcome.

An eotech with a light is fine, you won't need a laser. Personally I like vertical foregrips. I like Wolf for most practice, read the ammo oracle in the ammunition section for info on how 5.56 ammo works etc. Wolf would not be my first choice for self defense.

Quoted: Thanks for all the helpful info/suggestions. I want to learn to shoot with the iron sights before I move on to optical sights.   Great move, you will thankyourself later. That said, I will be purchasing an EOTech 552.A65 as they seem to have excellent "real world" value. I'd also like to get a tac light/laser that I move between my G19 and the S.I.R. rails. Any suggestions on such a product? Useful? Or is the laser pointless/redundant with the EOTech?  The Eotech idea is good, the laser is a waste of money.  Your cash would be MUCH better spent going to a carbine course and learning your weapon.  A light is a good idea. A forward grip also seems like it would be a useful addition.  Try it without for awhile and see how you like it.  You may find you need a VFG, but you may find you don't. Any suggestions on ammo for practice/SD? I was going to pick up a case of Wolf FMJ at Wally world this morning, but would like to hear some thoughts from the experts.  I'm not sure that Wally World sells Wolf ammo, but I wouldn't use Wolf to beak a weapon in.  Use it afterwards if you want.  I certainly wouldn't use it for anything other than punching paper.  Winchester white box at Wallmart might be a better move for break in. Thanks again for the warm welcome.

Aimless, Thanks for the info/link - I'm reading now, along with the FAQ (I should have found that one my own, sorry!) PS-over 38.000 posts! Do you ever have time to shoot? hotographs I'll save the money on the laser, and get a good light. As for training, my wife and I are planning a trip to Vegas/Front Sight to evaluate their programs. If we like it, we may become lifetime members.  Other alternatives we are considering are Ayoob's LFI (which is much closer, we're in Florida) and Blackwater.   Thanks again guys.

You must not have had it ordered from RRA to get it this fast. I ordered this week  and they told me 4 to 6 weeks. If its your first one I would scope it. I have 2 with scopes and one with eotech. This ones getting a premium 4x14 scope. JR

Winchester White Box is an excellent choice for practice ammo.

Quoted: If its your first one I would scope it. Why on Gods green earth would he ever want to scope his first carbine, instead of learing nto use his iron sights?

Quoted: Stickman, I already know you from your awesome photographs and helpful posts. Thanks for responding. WWB it is, then--that's what I use at the range for my pistols, and I know WM has plenty of it in .223. I'll save the money on the laser, and get a good light. As for training, my wife and I are planning a trip to Vegas/Front Sight to evaluate their programs. If we like it, we may become lifetime members.  Other alternatives we are considering are Ayoob's LFI (which is much closer, we're in Florida) and Blackwater.   Thanks again guys. John, A few quick things.   1.  You may want to start looking at buying ammo by the case.  A thousand rounds doesn't go real far, especially when you start getting into serious training.  WWB ammo is good for getting dialed in, and used to your weapon.  Down the road, you will probably want to play around with a few different brands and see what you like the best.  Different weapons tend to group better with different ammo. 2.  I think you are doing yourself a great service by getting a good light as opposed to using a laser as a crutch (which is what they ending up being for many people).  Illumination is the name of the game, and you can't hold a light in one hand and be effective with your carbine in the other.  Check out the lighting forum, as there are A LOT of options out there.  You can go crazy with money, or stay basic and functional.  I tend to use the Pentagon series of lights as they are a solid light, and available at a low cost compared to many others lights out there. 3.  If you are making the trip out there, consider taking an intro class from them.   Watching a class is a fantastic idea, but only when you are in the class can you evaluate how the instructors actually function with you. An example would be a recent carbine class I taught.  With a solid group of shooters, I was able to keep the class more advanced, and increase the complexity of the drills, but it still required careful monitoring of the students watching for little things.  Subtle variations make BIG differences, and you can't see those things from just watching.  Good instructors vary the drills and difficulty levels with regard to the ongoing abilities of the students.  What works great with one class, would fall flat with the next.   While course material can be the same, there are a wide range of ways to give that material, and a wider range of ways to actually teach it.  Its my opinion that good instructors are constantly reading their students body language and verbal cues, as well as their shooting skills.   Lastly, instructors should be able to read their students and be able to see who reacts well to military style instruction, and who is more in need of a softer approach.  Both can be done in the same class without difficulty, and different levels of positive and negative encouragement can work well in this regard. 4.  Before you go to any classes, get comfortable with your weapon, and get it out to the range a few times.  Students who have ZERo knowledge with their weapon system tend to add un needed drama, as they are always asking basic questions and slowing the rest of the shooters down.  Even a basic level of knowledge will be of great aid in a level one class.  Knowing how to field strip your weapon, and havinh it pretty close to sighted in may put you light years ahead of some people, or it might not, it all depends on the class, but its still worth your time. Basics such as reloads, loading, and a basic understanding of the fundamentals of marksmanship go even further to helping you enjoy your first classes even more.  These things are all easily learned through reading the military manuals, and while you may not get a full understanding, it will give you an idea of the proper foundation for your AR15. Sorry for the long post.....

Checkout a little company named TAPCO, they have some fantastic quality stuff!

He can get a detachable mount if he has to shoot in with IRONS. I did enough iron shooting with handguns myself. I prefer scopes. JR

Quoted: You must not have had it ordered from RRA to get it this fast. I ordered this week  and they told me 4 to 6 weeks. Impact Guns had it in stock with the ARMS SIR and the ARMS #40 already installed. I spoke to Dennis there and he really took a lot of time to answer all my stupid n00b questions. I never felt like he was rushing to get rid of me, or that my questions were annoying him. I found that very refreshing, so I placed my order. Having it in stock didn't hurt, either! h=85%

Quoted: If its your first one I would scope it. I have 2 with scopes and one with eotech. This ones getting a premium 4x14 scope. JR

I'll be picking up both a scope and a holo eventually, but for now I'm going to shoot using nothing but the irons. I want to feel 100% comfortable with my skills on a "naked" rifle, because I can't guarantee that I'll never find myself in a situation where the gadgets are not available to me.

Quoted: Winchester White Box is an excellent choice for practice ammo.

That's what I use exclusively for target practice with my GLOCKs. I picked up a case of 5.56mm yesterday - now all I need is the rifle.  This is going to be a long 3 or 4 days. h=85%

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Quoted:
1. You may want to start looking at buying ammo by the case. A thousand rounds doesn't go real far, especially when you start getting into serious training.

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Don't I know it! I always buy by the case. My wife and I go to the range at least once per week, and we usually go through 400-500 rounds per week. We look at the expense as an alternative to going out to eat, and we really enjoy shooting together. Honestly, my wife is a better shot than I am. h=85%

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Quoted:
2. I think you are doing yourself a great service by getting a good light as opposed to using a laser as a crutch (which is what they ending up being for many people). Illumination is the name of the game, and you can't hold a light in one hand and be effective with your carbine in the other. Check out the lighting forum, as there are A LOT of options out there. You can go crazy with money, or stay basic and functional. I tend to use the Pentagon series of lights as they are a solid light, and available at a low cost compared to many others lights out there.

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I'll check the lighting forum for sure. I was looking at the Surefire M900A, which would give me a great light and the vertical foregrip in one package. Any thoughts? Would it be better to purchase those items separately?

Quoted: 3. If you are making the trip out there, consider taking an intro class from them. Watching a class is a fantastic idea, but only when you are in the class can you evaluate how the instructors actually function with you.

Sorry, I was not clear on this point. We are not going to observe, we're going to take a class and evaluate how we like it. If we like the class, we may become lifetime members so we can take the rest of their classes as much as we want. We'll probably take the defensive handgun course, as my wife and I are both adept shooters and very familiar with our GLOCKs, but lack any real-world training (just lots of books and theoretical knowledge, which means very little without training).

Quoted: 4. Before you go to any classes, get comfortable with your weapon, and get it out to the range a few times.

Absolutely. In fact, when I get my rifle I'm going to resist the urge to head straight out to the rifle range; I'm going to take it home and get familiar with it before I shoot it. Also (as I mentioned above), our first class will be handgun. We're both CWP holders, and that 4-day class would be very beneficial to us. If we like it, we'll back back for many more classes, including the tactical rifle class. By then I should have many thousands of rounds through my RRA. h=85%

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Quoted:
Sorry for the long post.....  

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Are you kidding? I really appreciate it. I read every word, twice. Thank you!

Quoted: Checkout a little company named TAPCO, they have some fantastic quality stuff!

Will do, thanks man!


I really appreciate all the advice. This is a great community.

He's being a wiseass about the Tapco comment.

Quoted: He's being a wiseass about the Tapco comment. Heh, told you I was green. What's the joke?

Quoted: Quoted: He's being a wiseass about the Tapco comment. Heh, told you I was green. What's the joke? Tapco is generally viewed as a purveyor of lower quality products and  targeted more toward looking cool than being functional. Not sure if it is deserved. But that's what it is. (is yours a mid-length, or was the photo just for effect?) Congratulations on your new rig!

Quoted: (is yours a mid-length, or was the photo just for effect?) Congratulations on your new rig! Thanks! It's the RRA Elite CAR 4 (16"), and supposedly that's a picture of the actual rifle that is on the way to me, complete with the ARMS #40 & SIR.

Look at the Tango Down vertical grip and a Pentagon light. Hard to beat for the price. I put one on my S&W and another on a shotgun. GOing to order another one for my RRA. JRandyH Brightlights has some good deals on the lights.

IMPACT GUNS!!!!   That might be good, but it might be bad.  They are notorious for not having things in stock and doing what they can to make a sale, only to backorder part or all of your order indefinitely... But, the good news is, they may have had that exact rifle in stock and I'm sure it's NOT the most popular setup (not that there is anything wrong wiht it- I like it.) I don't think RRA ships rifles with ARMS products installed so that may be a special offering from Impact.  Hopefully it is something they already built and have on hand.   If not, they may be waiting a few weeks for the middy to arrive...   The BEST news is that you seem to have a good head on your shoulders regarding what you should and shouldn't do right now.  You seem to have a grip on your basic needs and don't have a huge list of "wants" only.  Welcome aboard.

Quoted: IMPACT GUNS!!!!  hock.gif That might be good, but it might be bad.  They are notorious for not having things in stock and doing what they can to make a sale, only to backorder part or all of your order indefinitely... But, the good news is, they may have had that exact rifle in stock and I'm sure it's NOT the most popular setup (not that there is anything wrong wiht it- I like it.) Haha, I know... I know. hem Everything did ship on Friday, just as they promised. I've got the tracking number, and it's scheduled to be at my FFL Thursday. Quoted:I don't think RRA ships rifles with ARMS products installed so that may be a special offering from Impact.  Hopefully it is something they already built and have on hand. RRA now offers ARMS (check out their web site). The ARMS #40 and SIR were both factory-installed items (I asked).  No worries there, either. Quoted:The BEST news is that you seem to have a good head on your shoulders regarding what you should and shouldn't do right now.  You seem to have a grip on your basic needs and don't have a huge list of "wants" only.  Welcome aboard. Thanks very much, Joseph. I appreciate the helpful advice and the warm welcome. For now I feel confident that I've purchased a good rifle, and I'm going to continue to take my time reading, shooting and learning as much as I can before I make any more purchases (my wife may have played some small role in that choice as well.)

Quoted: Look at the Tango Down vertical grip and a Pentagon light. Hard to beat for the price. I put one on my S&W and another on a shotgun. GOing to order another one for my RRA. Randy, I was checking them out here: www.pentagonlight.com/products.cfm?id=4&fig=8&search=ms2&search=ms3 Prices seem to be the Surefire ballpark. I'll keep exploring, they offer a lot of stuff. They have a very good web site, lots of information about their products. Thanks for the suggestion!

Quoted: Quoted: He's being a wiseass about the Tapco comment. Heh, told you I was green. What's the joke? Just  joking about the TAPCO comment! Seriously though very nice rig! Much nicer then my first AR! Hell nicer then the AR's I have now! Anyway WELCOME aboard.

Thanks again for all the help in this thread - I really appreciate it! So, guess what came a whole day early?! A big +1 to Impact Guns for delivering as promised. Everything was brand new and arrived in perfect shape. I never thought I'd be able to order an RRA on Friday, and have it the next Wednesday. I have pictures: Still in the plastic, upper and lower separated. Also shown, the Blackhawk double mag coupler. http://www.twowiresthin.com/images/rra_brand_new.jpg The fully assembled Rock River Arms Elite CAR A4 AR15 w/ A.R.M.S. floating Selective Integrated Rail System & L40 Flip-up rear sight. Sitting on top of the RRA hardshell Safe Case: http://www.twowiresthin.com/images/rra_assembled.jpg Looking down the barrel from the A2 flash hider: http://www.twowiresthin.com/images/rra_barrel.jpg A few more :) http://www.twowiresthin.com/images/rra_table.jpg http://www.twowiresthin.com/images/rra_royal.jpg http://www.twowiresthin.com/images/rra_flag_h.jpg

Fine boom stick! What did that rig cost you?

Skip all the other crap and buy a bunch of ammo.  Those things get hungry and consume lots of food.  And the more you play with them, the faster they eat.  Unless of course you have superhuman restraint . Very nice looking, I've always liked the looks of the arms forearm thingy's or whatever you call them.

Quoted: Fine boom stick! What did that rig cost you? It was $1249 with the S.I.R. rails/L40 rear sight factory-installed. IMpact tossed in a free mag and coupler, too. ---- Yesterday I field stripped the rifle, cleaned it and oiled before I took it to the range. Field stripping it was very easy (those takedown pins are TIGHT, and I had to use a rubber mallet to get them out - I'm glad they will loosen up in time). One thing that is new to me is the amount of oil required by ARs; I'm used to GLOCKs, which take a scant 5 drops of oil. I must have done OK (the manual is good), because I took it to the range and experienced zero operational problems. Every round fired and the brass ejected properly without fail. The only thing I'm not sure of is the iron sights. Even from a rest, the bullets were not going where I expected them to. I had to aim quite high and right to hit the in the "X" (and this is at only 25 yards). Once I learned where to aim I was hitting consistently, but the sights seem to be off. Is this normal? The only adjustments I can see are windage adjustments (left to right). Do iron sights need to be "sighted in"? I'm going back to the range in a few hours.

Adjust your front sight for elevation and like you said, you have windage on the rear.  You can use a bullet to adjust the front.  Although some get stumped by that.  It should show in your manual.