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Posted: 11/26/2005 9:23:31 AM EDT
Boy am I behind the times.

A recent poster wanted to know what were the best American made magazines. OKAY, NHMTG, Center Industries, and Creative Products were all named (sound choices to be sure).

I commented that the Creative Products magazines that I have used in the past were terrible (purchased two years ago). Well, here's an update.

Rick from Creative products read my post and volunteered to send me two improved replacement mags at no cost.

The two new mags performed flawlessly today after firing a combined 200 rounds through the new magazines.

differences noted:
-new mag-follower sits higher when empty ensuring bolt hold-open. A direct result of #2.

-It appears that the feed lip design has been changed although slight. Whatever they did, it now works.

-The magazine bodies are wider than the previous design. The mag has less room to move laterally inside the mag well. The fit isn't tight and the magazines dropped free (I must admit that I was a bit skeptical, but they worked well)

-the new finish is heavier than the old and is evenly applied.

-older CP magazines (like mine) are marked "Creative Products, Murrells inlet, Sc." while the redesigned mags are mfg'd in New Britain CT.

I'd like to thank Rick for giving me the opportunity to try the redesigned product. He obviously wasn't obligated to do so, or for free for that matter. I'm pleased with the changes and his magazine has certainly changed my mind. He informed me that Creative Products LLC. is supplying some of our troops with magazines...I think it's highly commendable that Rick and the Creative Products company have ensured that our troops are fighting the war with a design that won't fail them when they need it.

Link Posted: 11/26/2005 12:46:55 PM EDT
So are these mags actually being made by CP or are they rebranded mags made by OKAY (kind of like the NHMTG marked stuff). Just curious, because I didn't think CP had a facility in the same city as OKAY and very near some of the other big names like Colt and...
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 4:08:39 PM EDT
it's my understanding that CP is doing all their own work. I do believe they are directly involved with the Brownell's magazine production.

According to Rick they are designing their own stainless magazine with "enhanced anti-tilt followers". Similar to the steel HK product, but competitively priced (approximately 40 or 50% of what HK charges) and at a lower weight (production version wil be much lighter).
Creative products will begin stamping these in about 3 weeks. Hopefully I'll be able to get my hands on one for a little T & E.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 4:17:36 PM EDT
h.gifneatman
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 7:35:41 PM EDT
Pictures?
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 8:08:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Pictures?



pics are no problem (for the standard GI aluminum mags), but you'll have to wait on the steel mag pics. I'm waiting on one to be shipped at the moment.

If these mags are what they are supposed to be...CP has hit on a goldmine here.

Rest assured I'll be posting pics the minute I receive the magazines in the mail. Of course, I'll have to run several hundred rounds through them just to be sure.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 8:45:55 PM EDT
Tag; sounds interesting.

Now if they could make a stainless 40rder.....

WIZZO
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 3:58:28 AM EDT
Kevin, we manufacture the magazines. OKay is a few miles away. Stag Arms is just down the street and a customer of ours. We have many friends at Colts and they have test fired our mags without a failure.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 5:36:16 AM EDT
Thanks. Just curious. Did you guys just buy a place in CT vs. SC or have you always been up there?
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 10:54:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2006 10:35:16 AM EDT by target435]
.
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 11:50:50 PM EDT
After the earlier fiasco, I was wondering if CP would try again? I'm rather curious as to the Brownells connection as well.
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 12:17:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2005 12:17:34 PM EDT by Truckie351]
Have been testing their magazines for a couple of weeks. Test weapons are Bushmaster rifle with 20" barrel, Bushmaster Patrolman carbine with 16" barrel, Bushmaster Entry Carbine with 11.5" barrel, Colt 6920 with 16" barrel, Colt M4 with 14.5" barrel, Colt M16A2 with 11.5" barrel, Armalite 15A2NM with 20" barrel, and ArmaLite M15 with 16" barrel. Ammo was a mix of XM193,ADCOM M855, and Wolf 55gr. Fired 1200 rounds through each magazine. Some magazines where emptied firing one shot every two seconds, some emptied firing as fast as possible on semi auto, and some on full auto dumping the entire magazine with one pull of the trigger. All the magazines functioned perfectly. We experienced zero problems.
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 2:40:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Eric:
After the earlier fiasco, I was wondering if CP would try again? I'm rather curious as to the Brownells connection as well.



do you mean their earlier production aluminum mags?

i was dead set against them, but their new stuff is good. No problems yet and I took them out again this afternoon...got off work a little early

i'm not saying that I'm gonna sell off all of my NHMTG mags, but they are competitive...and competition is good for all of us.

I REALLY can't wait until these steel mags arrive.
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 2:44:13 PM EDT
pics?
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 4:34:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2005 4:42:49 PM EDT by j3_]

Now if they could make a stainless 40rder...

I have one from the old days. I bought it to go with my Colt guard finsihed SP1. It runs fine with a shine.


I bought one of the Brownells mags when they first came out. Mine had loose floorplate, part of the inside had no finish, and the spring had a light red haze on it that wiped off like rust. Sent it back. I also bought some of the 20 round 30 round Creative Product mags that would not load to capacity and feed when they first came out. Only price would make me try them again and 11 dollar mags are out there from others. Let see a mag manufacturer that will sell to the consumer direct at GI prices. I could use some $8 mags.
Link Posted: 12/2/2005 4:48:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rob78:

Originally Posted By Eric:
After the earlier fiasco, I was wondering if CP would try again? I'm rather curious as to the Brownells connection as well.



do you mean their earlier production aluminum mags?



Yup. Many had to be returned.
Link Posted: 12/3/2005 1:09:11 PM EDT
Sorry to be a pain, but does anybody have a link to CP, can't seem to find 'em.
Link Posted: 12/3/2005 1:19:19 PM EDT
Want help you but here
cproductsllc.com/
Link Posted: 12/3/2005 1:25:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By j3_:
Want help you but here
cproductsllc.com/



Thank you very much sir.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 10:33:45 PM EDT
I had the opportunity to chat with Larry from CP today. I was treated like I was his most important customer, despite being a nobody. These guys are a class act who know their product and what's needed to make it work. After talking to Larry, it became apparent CP is going to be a big player in the magazine market. They have been networking with a lot of the big name players in the industry. I've got a few of the new CP mags on they way to test out. Now, I just can't wait to get a hold of the stainless steel mags! Apparently they're giving them a heat treatment to further strengthen the construction, but the weight is not much greater than current mil-spec mags. Prices will be much lower than HK mags and they will arguably be better constructed.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 10:48:32 PM EDT
Interesting, if they have their act together, the stainless mag could be good.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 3:25:54 AM EDT
Gamma,
The company really has it all together. The quality standards are as tight as you can get. I know because I am responsible for that until my deployment. Each individual magazine is inspected prior to shipment and is guaranteed for manufacturer defect. If there is a manufacturing defect we will replace it at no charge.(it will probably come out of my paycheck, only kidding) As far as the S/S mag it is going through the most extensive testing we know how to do. It will again be test fired this weekend at Ft Bragg. The weight is 5.6 ounces and when put side by side with the aluminum mag you cannot tell the differnce. For all the teflon guys, it will be offered with the black teflon finish.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 10:11:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rickdownrange:
Gamma,
The company really has it all together. The quality standards are as tight as you can get. I know because I am responsible for that until my deployment. Each individual magazine is inspected prior to shipment and is guaranteed for manufacturer defect. If there is a manufacturing defect we will replace it at no charge.(it will probably come out of my paycheck, only kidding) As far as the S/S mag it is going through the most extensive testing we know how to do. It will again be test fired this weekend at Ft Bragg. The weight is 5.6 ounces and when put side by side with the aluminum mag you cannot tell the differnce. For all the teflon guys, it will be offered with the black teflon finish.



Just kinda wondering out loud here, but do you think you guys might offer anything like a 40rder?

I'm glad to see you guys are trying and it sounds like you have a top quality operation running there. I look forwaurd to seeing these stainless mags, and hope to see other CP products in the near future.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 1:09:38 PM EDT
I got a few in earlier this week. I haven't had time to get to the range, but here are a few pics.




Link Posted: 12/17/2005 3:12:20 PM EDT
CP is top notch. I have only been dealing with them a short while but I cannot think of a nicer more accomidating manufacturer!

-Mark
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 10:04:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2006 10:34:48 AM EDT by target435]
.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:47:33 AM EDT
How do I know, when they will be available? I wish from Brownell´s, or may I order directly - from Europe?

H
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:57:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Eric:
I got a few in earlier this week. I haven't had time to get to the range, but here are a few pics.
img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/AR15forme/CP%20Mags/P1010247.jpg
img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/AR15forme/CP%20Mags/P1010243.jpg
img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/AR15forme/CP%20Mags/P1010244.jpg
img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/AR15forme/CP%20Mags/P1010254.jpg
img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/AR15forme/CP%20Mags/P1010253.jpg




You are one of the few people on this board that I trust without question, so I await your range report.

Let me know if these are ready for duty use out of the box.



Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 11:09:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 11:34:35 PM EDT by Eric]
A bit of a mini review.

I’ve had the opportunity to try out four of the new CP 30 round mags with the chrome silicone springs. Prior to live fire, I wanted to check the mags for fit in several different weapons. I pulled out a Bushmaster, a DPMS, a Colt and an Olympic Arms and test fit each mag in each weapon. Mag #1 didn’t drop free in the BM, Colt or OA. Mag #2 dropped free in all four. Mag #3 dropped free in all 4. Mag #4 was very tight and failed to drop free in all four. I counted on my fingers and toes and determined that out of 16 checks, the mags failed to drop free 7 times and dropped free the remaining 9 attempts, or about a 44% failure to drop free rate. Each of the mags properly engaged the bolt stop.

I took the two mags that properly dropped free and put a bit over 300 rounds total through them. The test weapon was a well used Colt 6721 that has proven to be very reliable. Ammo used was Federal XM855PD, Winchester Q3131 and Q3131A. I experienced one fail to feed from the first round in a fully loaded mag. This was early on in the testing and never occurred again.

The mag that experienced the failure also developed an unusual wear pattern on the rear of the right feed lip. It appeared that the bolt carrier was contacting the magazine and shaving off material on each pass. The contact area was about 3/8” long. The pic below isn’t the best, but it gives you an idea what I’m talking about.

So what does this mean? It means I’ll continue to test them out. I was somewhat disappointed that two of the mags wouldn’t drop free regularly. It’s not the first time I’ve experienced this. I understand that when tolerances are stacked up just right such a thing can occur.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 4:21:53 AM EDT
Eric,
Thanks for your review of the magazines with chrome silicon springs. As a manufacturer all we can ask is the feedback you have given us.
We are very disappointed in the tightness issue. You are correct that stacked tolerances can do this. Sometimes the mags are to the high side of the tolerance and the mag well to the small side. The dry coating applied to heavy can cause this also. Whatever the issue we will address it. We have a very tightly controlled QC for each lot and are able to trace each and every lot. We are pulling that lot that the mags shipped to you were taken from and doing the test proceedures outlined in our quality manual.
We would like to contact you to discuss your tests.
One positive note is that other then 1 misfeed which never occurred again they fired well. Please send back the mag that had the wear, we would like to do a complete dimensional check. Thanks

CP
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:13:03 AM EDT
Great review Eric. I got rid of my Center mags because they wouldn't drop free. I probably wouldn't be happy with these either.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:05:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gary-G23:
Great review Eric. I got rid of my Center mags because they wouldn't drop free. I probably wouldn't be happy with these either.


This test represents too small of a sample to mean much. It merely is an indication on how a couple mags performed with only a small quantity of ammo. I've had dimensional issues with mags from just about every USGI manufacturer. As more CP mags make their way into the field, I'll be interested in feedback from others. What sets CP apart from everyone else so far is their willingness to take care of any issues that come up and their communication with the little guy. How many other magazine manufacturers are posting here? Most manufacturers only want to hear from you if your a vendor or gov agency preparing to buy a truckload of product.

This does reinforce what I have said in the past, however. Test your mags prior to putting them into service.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 2:16:49 PM EDT
The feed lips appear to be wavy instead of straight front to back and along the top to bottom going back to front. Is this correct or just the way I am looking at the picture?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:19:53 PM EDT
Eric,
Thanks again for the feedback.
I think we are the only magazine ( 30 round 5.56/.223 ) manufacturer communicating on this web-site. We do this because for the most part we get factual, honest in your face feedback, good and bad. A couple of days ago, Tack Member replied with a concern over the possibility of fracturing in the lips of our stainless steel magazine. When we started the project that was a major concern of ours. We searched for the expert in the heat treat field and felt confortable with what we found. Tack quite frankly made us take another look at our findings, just to double check. That process is going on currently. Point is, we listen and we learn. The shooters on this site have raised the bar for what they find acceptable quality wise. We are trying to keep up with that level. As I said, constructive feedback is appreciated. We will continue to listen, reply and learn.

CP
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:57:21 PM EDT
Free mag giveaway HERE.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 7:04:06 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:02:42 PM EDT
A couple more quick range sessions and about 400 rounds later, zero problems. I'm working my way though another case of XM855PD. Ran it through a factory 20" Bushmaster and a 16" Oly Upper on a Mega lower. Just for grins, I dropped in a new MagPul grey follower in one of the mags.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:08:48 AM EDT
Has anyone done cold weather testing yet?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:17:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kodiak-AK:
Has anyone done cold weather testing yet?

No cold weather here, just lots and lots of rain!
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 11:33:37 PM EDT
OK . Well some one keep me up to date . I hate buying stuff and finding out it doesn't work during the winter .

To be honest I am leery of these mags because of the last time they where available , but if they have everything worked out , well it is another American company to send money to .
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:53:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:12:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 4:14:29 AM EDT by CitySlicker]
UPDATE:

Creative Products' website is now accepting orders for magazines: www.cproductsllc.com.

NOTE to Military and Law Enforcement Personnel: Creative products offers you a discounted price for these magazines ($7.90, $2.60 less than the standard price).

Regards,

Justin

I forgot to mention that I am not sure if the Stainless Steel magazines are available yet. If you are interested, you may want to call and ask them.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:20:55 AM EDT
I have been lurking on the AK side and buildings AK's for the last couple of months and decided to take a trip over here. Glad I did... I just ordered 10 of these mags from the CP website and the price can't be beat.

Best of luck to you guys at Creative Products!


thanks,
Ron
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 11:32:21 AM EDT
Suggestion for CP's next project: 20 round and 32 round 9mm mags!
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 12:04:29 PM EDT
It's closer than you may think!

CP
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 2:15:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tochhc235:
It's closer than you may think!

CP



Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:55:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Eric:
I’ve had the opportunity to try out four of the new CP 30 round mags with the chrome silicone springs.



What's the difference between a chrome silicon and a regular spring? I'm rebuilding some USGI mags and was on CP's site. The springs are priced the same. Can someone enlighten me?
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 5:00:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By justice23:

Originally Posted By Eric:
I’ve had the opportunity to try out four of the new CP 30 round mags with the chrome silicone springs.



What's the difference between a chrome silicon and a regular spring? I'm rebuilding some USGI mags and was on CP's site. The springs are priced the same. Can someone enlighten me?



AFAIK the CS springs will go through more compression cycles before failure.

Mike
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 6:00:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2006 10:37:08 AM EDT by target435]
.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 11:02:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 4:46:53 PM EDT by Green0]
I didn't realize the mags were aluminum.

They look normal now considering that which is good. I think it would take the stainless mags and good results for me to want to buy from a new source.

The stainless- my theory anyway is that it might eliminate dented feed lips around cartridge rims and reduce bent feedlips which are two stealth causes of Malfs.

The steel would work too but why get involved with a product that requires constant corrosion protection. One nice thing about aluminum is being able to leave mags in wet web gear as it dries.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 4:31:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By justice23:

Originally Posted By Eric:
I’ve had the opportunity to try out four of the new CP 30 round mags with the chrome silicone springs.



What's the difference between a chrome silicon and a regular spring? I'm rebuilding some USGI mags and was on CP's site. The springs are priced the same. Can someone enlighten me?


As I understand it...
All springs will take a set after the initial load/compression. Standard springs will take a bit more of a set with each compression cycle. The CS spring takes the initial set, but no further set after subsequent compressions.
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