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Link Posted: 8/17/2018 11:05:37 PM EDT
[#1]
Rdgonoles, Looking at pic. you posted. The first pic of rifle looks to have a open prong muzzle break, but in  the second pic the rifle looks to have a bird cage muzzle break. Did you change the muzzle break? If so who made the muzzle break?
Link Posted: 8/17/2018 11:21:55 PM EDT
[#2]
No one makes muzzle breaks.  They're broken.

Brownells has an entire line of muzzle brakes, however.
Link Posted: 8/18/2018 8:12:46 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Rdgonoles, Looking at pic. you posted. The first pic of rifle looks to have a open prong muzzle break, but in  the second pic the rifle looks to have a bird cage muzzle break. Did you change the muzzle break? If so who made the muzzle break?
View Quote
I haven’t changed anything. Must be the picture.
Link Posted: 8/19/2018 10:00:37 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Convert a POF to DI, w/ a pencil bbl, you should be able to get under 6.
View Quote
All 6 of my AR’s so far have a carry handle , I’m not stopping now
Link Posted: 8/19/2018 12:53:46 PM EDT
[#5]
I'm a little bit surprised no one else has done a range report yet, so what the heck, I'll give it a go. Dad and I gathered up about 60 rounds of Federal "American Eagle" 149 grn. XM80 on Saturday and headed out to the local (ish) range. While the rifle does have some heft to it, it balances well when held at the ready or at the shoulder, so it feels like it weighs less than it does, until you turn the muzzle vertical at least. Our little spring gauge trigger scale puts the trigger at something like 6 pounds or so, which we are perfectly happy with, being used to military triggers on everything from muskets to Mausers.

One of the first things we both noticed was how short the front sight blade is compared to the 'ears' that protect it, it takes some getting used to given that we are used to and generally prefer a front sight post (or blade) that is roughly half the height of the protective ears around it. It helps with quick acquisition and makes things easier for dad's old eyes. All of that said, it's still perfectly usable once you get used to it. Right off the bat, at 25 yards the rifle was dead on, no tinkering needed, and grouped perfectly well for what is effectively a reproduction military rifle. Actually, it grouped great with a nearly one hole 10 shot group, with 8 of the 10 shots fitting into about a half inch ragged hole, can't really ask for better at my skill level or with dad's tired eyes. When we moved it to 50 and then 75 yards, it opened up fairly quick, but that's more from the shooters than the rifle it's self, that's about normal for us given that we don't practice as much as we should.
Link Posted: 8/19/2018 12:55:31 PM EDT
[#6]
I will tell you one thing though, that rifle does like to remind you that it's a .308 and not a .223 in the recoil department. It's not what I'd call harsh recoil, but someone that's used to shooting 5.56 will likely think it's fairly stout. I grew up with .30-06, 8mm Mauser, and .303 British, so to me it's just normal recoil and not anything special. Overall, I like it and look forward to the day that Brownell's catches up on production of rifles to the point that parts become available for builds, so that the pencil barrel that we got after they changed the front sight design can become our 'shooter/knockaround' BRN-10.

I had to break up the little review due to the "new member can't make large posts" rule.
Link Posted: 8/19/2018 12:56:08 PM EDT
[#7]
Oh, and I almost forgot, the charging handle detent spring is stout as heck, so running the charging handle takes quite a bit of strength. I spent the better part of Friday night and Saturday morning just running the charging handle back and forth to loosen up the detent some and my left wrist is sore from the effort and my left index finger feels bruised between the first and second knuckle (from fingertip back) from doing that. It's about on par with a G3/HK91 charging handle in stiffness and that's about how my hand and wrist felt after messing with our PTR-91 when we first got it. It does loosen up some with use, but only time will tell how much it will. Fortunately, you don't need to fiddle with the charging handle very much once you've locked the bolt open manually once to load and I only had one minor hang up while shooting and it was just a cartridge that didn't want to feed when I dropped the bolt on a full (20 rounds loaded) Brownell's magazine, no big problem. I ran the handle back all the way, let it fly, and everything was smooth from there. Additionally, while we did manage to get the handguards to heat up (and we weren't going fast, our range has a mandatory "three second rule" between shots), they never got too hot to handle, but I'm still looking at a way to add some heat shields to at least the back half of the handguards just because I think that way. In contrast, the charging handle barely got warm and was not a problem at all in that regard.

Again, review broken up into parts due to the post size rule.
Link Posted: 8/19/2018 1:45:57 PM EDT
[#8]
Thanks for the in depth range review.  How would you say it handled and recoil compared to say a GI profile M14 clone?

How well did the magazine function?  There have been reports of issues with those brownells magazines.
Link Posted: 8/19/2018 1:53:36 PM EDT
[#9]
Old Gene is smiling



Link Posted: 8/19/2018 1:55:43 PM EDT
[#10]
I have a Kynshot hydraulic buffer in my A1 stocked .308 AR.   If it is compatible with the BRN I would highly recommend one.    That is about all you can do without changing anything on the outside which would be blasphemous.
Link Posted: 8/19/2018 5:02:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks for the in depth range review.  How would you say it handled and recoil compared to say a GI profile M14 clone?

How well did the magazine function?  There have been reports of issues with those brownells magazines.
View Quote
Ok, it's been a while since I've been able to mess with dad's Fed Ord M-14, but I'll go as best I can from memory. I'd say the M-14  kicks less, directly back into your shoulder, but it does have more muzzle climb. The M-14 and M-1 always seemed to me to absorb some of the recoil from firing better than some other designs, but that's just my opinion. The straight-line stock of the BRN-10, like all such rifles, puts more of the recoil straight back into your shoulder, but climbs less, as is the intent of the design. As to the handling, to me, they feel like they weigh roughly the same, but the M-14's balance point is a bit further forward. The balance point of the BRN-10A seems to be right at the little oblong "pocket" in the carry handle formed by the charging handle and the inside front of the carry handle, so more or less along the front edge of the mag well. Both balance quite well, but I think I'd have to say the BRN-10 balances slightly better to me. The three Brownell's mags we used only had the one hiccup I noted before, failing to feed once when loading a full mag to start shooting. Other than that one time, there were no problems. 20 rounds each through 3 mags is a small sample size, but it's what we could scrounge up on short notice in .308.
Link Posted: 8/19/2018 5:09:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Oh, yeah. I remembered one sort of slick little handling trick I figured out when using the charging handle with your left hand. Assuming that you are right handed, if you shoulder the rifle to operate the charging handle (which is just about a requirement at first, just to get the leverage) and operate the charging handle with the index and middle fingers of your left hand, the bolt release/hold-open has a tendency to fall right under your pinky finger once you're all the way back. It seems to be the easiest way to lock the bolt open for clearing and inspection.
Link Posted: 8/19/2018 5:16:55 PM EDT
[#13]
First range trip today with the BRN-10A. Brought a G1 FAL kit build for some comparison. The BRN-10 handles very well. Controls are as expected on an AR style rifle. Charging handle is very stiff when overcoming the spring. I only had the one Brownells magazine. No failures whatsoever. Recoil is similar to most 308 semi autos. Seemed a little softer than my SCAR17 and slightly jumper than the FAL. Ultimately, recoil was a non-issue because I mostly shoot 308 Cold War semi-autos.

I started at the 100 yard line and shot 20 rounds of Lithuania M80 ball. Then another 40 after the FAL. Rifle shot noticeably high with the rear sight bottom-out. This is a little frustrating because the front sight post is the lower 1/3 of the sight ears instead of the halfway point.  So I couldn’t even shoot dot over post and instead had to hold about 8 inches or more low to hit center of target. Trigger is very milspec and fits the style of the rifle.

Overall, it’s a fun rifle and fits the bill for a close retro Ar10. I was a little disappointed with my groups and surprised that my FAL build had better groups. I think the reason was how low I had to hold to be on target at 100 yards. Top target is the first 20 rounds. I was holding on the center of the lower target to hit center on the upper target.





picupload
Link Posted: 8/19/2018 5:42:32 PM EDT
[#14]
I ended up leaving out the shooting high bit partly because of the character limit and partly because I was focusing more on handling. We also had pretty much the same amount of shooting high once we scooted out to 50 and 75 yards, but it was just about dead on at 25. I get the feeling it has something of what I like to call a 'belt buckle battlesight zero'. The idea is that you aim roughly at the belt buckle (taking into account that belts used to be worn a bit higher on the body than they are now) and you're likely to hit something on a man sized target at most ranges. Not really great for a target rifle, but it makes sense for a military setup. One more detail that I forgot to mention is the firing pin retaining pin, I was surprised to find out it's a machined pin with a pair of spring prongs on the end for retention, just like on the other early ARs. This is cool for the reproduction side of things, but it might be something to keep an eye on if you shoot a bunch as I believe they have a tendency to snap off one of the prongs with hard use, if I recall correctly.
Link Posted: 8/19/2018 11:43:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Rbgonoles, that range pic has a sign that prohibits spoting scopes being used by anyone that is not a range master.  Have any idea what is up with that rule?  Not trying to high Jack the thread, but that really puzzles me.
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 8:47:00 AM EDT
[#16]
There is a spotting scope set up on the line that is owned by the range.  You can bring your owe, they just don't what others using theirs.
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 9:10:40 AM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 9:43:10 AM EDT
[#18]
I thought of that as well and tried it, but there is only 1 click worth of adjustment downward available. Ours hits fine at 25 yards, so I figure it isn't worth the trouble right now.
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 1:20:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 3:02:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Makes sense given that 7.62 Nato and 5.56 Nato have similar trajectories as I recall.
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 3:08:43 PM EDT
[#21]
Just a quick note to Brownells on the comment above regarding the condition of the box upon arrival. Mine arrived with the box in pristine condition, so the damage noted by a previous poster may have been done in transit and not at the time of shipping. Of course, this only constitutes one additional data point. My gun is, unfortunately, still in the box as I have not had time to even fondle it, let alone take it out for a test drive. Hopefully I can remedy that soon.
Best Regards.
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 5:55:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Well, that is essentially an M16A2 battlesight zero.

Dead on at 25m and 6"-8" high at 100.
View Quote
Not sure if the taller sights relative to the bore on the AR makes a difference here, but my FALs, when zeroed at 25m, are only 2-3" high at 100m and pretty much on at 200m, using NATO-spec ball ammo.  6-8" sounds really high at 100m.
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 6:11:05 PM EDT
[#23]
25 meter zero is for the M4, and that is 1 click past the 8/3 setting (2 clicks if it's the 6/3 sight), so not even zero'd at 25 meters with the sight bottomed out (impact would be lower than POA at 25m, esp for a 20" barrel).  A 300 meter zero for 5.56 is roughly 4" - 5" high at 100 yards depending on the barrel length and ammo type.
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 6:15:29 PM EDT
[#24]
What is the lowest serial number anyone received?  I got serial number 0015X. Did anyone get any odd serial numbers as well?
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 6:42:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 7:16:58 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

My 20" rifles were always 6"+ high at 100. YMMV

That's why I switched to a 50/200 on all my AR's.
View Quote
Wow, that's way too high, even for a 300 meter zero!

Try this program here, though is in yards so if trying to find a 300 meter zero, have to plug in 328 yards.

https://www.federalpremium.com/ballistics-calculator
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 8:25:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 9:38:06 PM EDT
[#28]
You check with the program and confirm on paper.  Also, hard for most people to confirm such far distance zero's as they don't have access to a 300+ meter range.
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 5:43:11 AM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You check with the program and confirm on paper.  Also, hard for most people to confirm such far distance zero's as they don't have access to a 300+ meter range.
View Quote
Not having that problem is one reason I love living near the desert.

I found that the ballistics calculator fairly accurately predicted my trajectory once I was zeroed in on my FAL.  Shot at 25, 100, 200, and 300m.  6" seems way too high based on what I saw, both with a 21" and 17" FAL.
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 12:01:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 12:25:35 PM EDT
[#31]
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 12:53:46 PM EDT
[#32]
Any chance of getting a very close-up pic of the mag release button?  
Just curious to see if an attempt was made for it to look original.
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 1:35:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 1:50:48 PM EDT
[#34]
@HHollow , how close is it?
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 7:09:15 PM EDT
[#35]
Were the original ar10s anodized black or xm grey? Or something else?
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 8:09:22 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Were the original ar10s anodized black or xm grey? Or something else?
View Quote
Very dark black.  With wear the finish could become grey but they started out black.
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 8:17:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 8:37:31 PM EDT
[#38]
Most kit guns have multiple layers of black paint and often can mimic the original rich black finish.

I bought a nearly unfired Transitional AR10 a few years ago and when the dealer opened the box
he thought he was looking at a refinished or painted gun.  Once you see and handle one you can
recognize an original black finish.  See below.



Link Posted: 8/21/2018 9:54:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Thanks Mike for the pic of the BRN-10 mag release button (left).  Its a decent copy of the original (right).

If Brownells would sell me a couple I will see if they can be made to work on an original AR10.

Link Posted: 8/21/2018 10:49:42 PM EDT
[#40]
How close dimensionally are these receivers?  The upper is a smaller tube than the original, no?
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 10:55:44 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Were the original ar10s anodized black or xm grey? Or something else?
View Quote
pics stolen from ARFCOM, years ago.











The Armalite AR-10 Rifle


Prototype full auto AR-10 from 1957! (Unicorn Guns with Jerry Miculek)


Link Posted: 8/21/2018 11:40:11 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
How close dimensionally are these receivers?  The upper is a smaller tube than the original, no?
View Quote
I am shocked to find that the BR-10 upper has the correct inner diameter to handle the older Dutch carrier.  I could get a Dutch carrier in the BR-10 uuper were in not for the carrier key being slightly wider on the Dutch gun.  All I have is the BR-10 upper but I now suspect the BR-10 might be using a larger diameter buffer?  really?

the barrel nut threads are very similar, with the same diameter and a wee different pitch. The Dutch nut goes 4 turns on the BR-10 upper before it binds.

The profiles of the BR-10 upper an Dutch uppers are similar, but still not 100% compatible.  See below, the BR-10 (top) has its locking pin forward of where the Dutch (bottom) pin lays.  Also, the angles are different at the rear.


The BR-10 upper dang near fits a Dutch lower.  Note the complete mismatch of the locking pin holes.  Also, the Dutch lower below is a demil and is missing the other side.  If the lower were intact the  BR-10 lugs would no go in.


Link Posted: 8/22/2018 5:37:32 AM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
How close dimensionally are these receivers?  The upper is a smaller tube than the original, no?
View Quote
On a related note, I noticed that the MPT-76 made by Turkey uses a buffer tube that looks close in size to that of the AI AR-10s, with the bolt carrier being full-diametre from end-to-end, kind of like an AR-10 carrier.
Link Posted: 8/22/2018 8:48:50 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I am shocked to find that the BR-10 upper has the correct inner diameter to handle the older Dutch carrier.  I could get a Dutch carrier in the BR-10 upper were it not for the carrier key being slightly wider on the Dutch gun.  All I have is the BR-10 upper but I now suspect the BR-10 might be using a larger diameter buffer?  really?
View Quote
It looked like an ordinary buffer to me when I cleaned the factory grease out of the thing. The front end of the carrier is quite beefy and fills the inside diameter of the upper very well, but the tail end of the carrier is much smaller in diameter and has a significant amount of air space around it when inside the upper. The fit of the front half of the carrier is sufficiently tight to prevent the back end from wobbling around, especially once it is in contact with the buffer and therefore under slight spring pressure. I think what we have in the BRN-10 is a unique bolt carrier that is a hybrid between the original and the modern.
Link Posted: 8/22/2018 9:01:17 AM EDT
[#45]
But what about the important stuff like the safety, bolt catch and port door, how close are they to original?
Link Posted: 8/22/2018 9:13:02 AM EDT
[#46]
Link Posted: 8/22/2018 9:47:20 AM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Guys, it uses DPMS compatible internal components.

From the description:

Compatibility Notes: DPMS/SR-25 compatible parts on the Brownells BRN-10 rifle include: magazine, bolt/carrier group, barrel assembly, barrel nut, slip ring assembly, crush washer, muzzle devices, buffer, buffer spring, handguard, magazine latch, and magazine release spring.

AR-15 compatible components include: front sight base assembly, gas tube, handguard cap, drop-in GI-style handguards, receiver extension (buffer tube), buffer retainer & spring, takedown detents & springs, selector, selector detent & spring, trigger assembly, buttstock assembly, and pistol grip & screw.
View Quote
Yeah these are basically SR-25s worked over to mimic AR-10s
Link Posted: 8/22/2018 10:03:32 AM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 8/22/2018 10:07:02 AM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Guys, it uses DPMS compatible internal components.

From the description:

Compatibility Notes: DPMS/SR-25 compatible parts on the Brownells BRN-10™ rifle include: magazine, bolt/carrier group, barrel assembly, barrel nut, slip ring assembly, crush washer, muzzle devices, buffer, buffer spring, handguard, magazine latch, and magazine release spring.

AR-15 compatible components include: front sight base assembly, gas tube, handguard cap, drop-in GI-style handguards, receiver extension (buffer tube), buffer retainer & spring, takedown detents & springs, selector, selector detent & spring, trigger assembly, buttstock assembly, and pistol grip & screw.
View Quote
which was the best choice for today’s world
Link Posted: 8/22/2018 2:08:19 PM EDT
[#50]
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