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Posted: 10/9/2008 6:36:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2008 6:40:00 AM EDT by ARfanboy]
Is this worth stockpiling? Century is having a killer deal on this non-corrosive ammo.  Is it comparable to Wolf 70 gr?  I know Century recommends a 1:9 or 1:10 twist, but how do you think it would fare in S&W 5.45 upper with 1:8?
Link Posted: 10/9/2008 7:02:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2008 8:49:54 AM EDT
IIRC CAI may've issued that bizarre disclaimer because some people were bitching about the accuracy of the 68 gr. bullet in the most commonly available 5.45mm rifles.    FWIW, as far as heavier slugs go, the Wolf MC 70 gr. shoots like crap out of my RPK, MKII & SAR-2.  Everything else is pretty much like a laser beam outa those things.
Link Posted: 10/9/2008 9:05:29 AM EDT
Thinking about getting some of this myself.

It is truly non-corrosive, and how well would it shoot out of a Bulgy AK-74?
Link Posted: 10/9/2008 9:10:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2008 9:11:03 AM EDT by ARfanboy]
I am not looking for sub MOA accuracy.  I just want some decent plinking non-corrosive ammo for my VEPR.
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 5:36:39 PM EDT
Anybody...?
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 6:14:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARfanboy:
Anybody...?


NOBODY has any experience whatsoever with this stuff???
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 6:47:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 8:02:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 8:29:34 PM EDT
I've used hot shot ammo before, but only the 62gr.  They used to sell it at the range I went to.  It was ok for general use, but a little dirty.  I think it is Bosnian made.
Link Posted: 10/11/2008 7:13:51 AM EDT
Romanian manufacture for this type.
Link Posted: 10/12/2008 9:02:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2008 9:02:49 AM EDT by ARfanboy]
Hopefully they don't manufacture their ammunition like they do their WASRs
Link Posted: 10/12/2008 5:19:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/13/2008 6:54:06 AM EDT
Just ordered two cases, I'll shoot it out of my Bulgy AKS-74 and AKS-74U and let you know how it fares.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 5:31:12 AM EDT
Great, I can't wait for the range report.  The price is so damn tempting.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 12:35:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 6:31:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 7:18:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2008 7:19:54 AM EDT by tctlrld]
Got my two cases today.

Comes in sardine cans, with commerical markings on the 20 round boxes.
OAL is 2.2125 compared to 2.235 on Bulgarian 7N6.

Some pics for now, hope to go run some through my guns later this week/weekend.





7N6 on the right.



Link Posted: 10/15/2008 8:26:09 AM EDT
at .14 a round, why would you bother with this? There is still better stuff out there cheaper...

Barnaul 59gr FMJ, Bulgairan WASP, Wolf 60 gr.

What good does a 68 gr do that that others can't?????
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 9:03:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2008 9:08:18 AM EDT by tctlrld]
12.5c / round - and it's not corrosive.

EDIT: That said. I'm well stocked on the Bulgarian 7N6 stuff and will probably use this as blasting ammo since it will make it easier to clean afterwards. But if you can send me a link to a better deal I'm game.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 9:23:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zhukov:
From Century's disclaimer:


This 5.45x39 cal. Ammo is designed for use in a firearm with 1 in 9 or 1 in 10 barrel twist.  These barrel twists produce the best accuracy.  Due to the projectile and grain weights used in production of this ammo, use of the ammo in a firearm with a barrel twist other than 1 in 9 or 1 in 10 could result in the projectile keyholing.  We test fired this ammo in a firearm with a barrel twist of 1 in 9 and experienced no loss of accuracy out to 200 yards.  We also test fired in a 1 in 7 twist barrel and experienced keyholing.  If you do not know the barrel twist of your rifle, please visit our website (www.centuryarms.com) for instructions on measuring rate of barrel twists.  


That's actually kind of weird, as the slower 1:9 and 1:10 ought to be MORE prone to keyholing than the faster 1:8 or 1:7. I don't quite understand that. AK74's are also 1:8, and can shoot 70gr (7N6 projectile without air tip/all lead core) OK.


I'm with you on this...  A faster twist bbl should be much better in stabilizing the heavier bullet weights.  I think Century is trying to B.S. C.Y.A. on the key-hole Tantals.

BIGGER_HAMMER
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 4:17:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tctlrld:
12.5c / round - and it's not corrosive.

EDIT: That said. I'm well stocked on the Bulgarian 7N6 stuff and will probably use this as blasting ammo since it will make it easier to clean afterwards. But if you can send me a link to a better deal I'm game.

I wish you had access to a S&W/Talo 5.45 AR upper for testing.  I ordered one tin to test in mine, but it could be next week before the ammo arrives.  I agree i would be nice to have some non-corrosive for those times when you will not be shooting much and/or do not want to clean.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 4:34:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2008 4:35:31 PM EDT by ARfanboy]

Originally Posted By bsf:
I ordered one tin to test in mine, but it could be next week before the ammo arrives.  I agree i would be nice to have some non-corrosive for those times when you will not be shooting much and/or do not want to clean.



I am glad someone on here has a 5.45 upper.  Please keep us informed with a range report!
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 9:16:47 PM EDT
Have you been able to find a date anywhere on the cartridge or the sardine can?
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 4:14:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CAR_16:

Originally Posted By ARfanboy:
Anybody...?


NOBODY has any experience whatsoever with this stuff???


I asked the same question 2 weeks ago and still no definative answer.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 4:56:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fistpoint:
Have you been able to find a date anywhere on the cartridge or the sardine can?


my guess is Jan 2007 (01/07 on the can)
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 7:38:19 AM EDT
tctlrld, please give us a range report ASAP!  Thanks
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:32:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gfunk:

Originally Posted By fistpoint:
Have you been able to find a date anywhere on the cartridge or the sardine can?


my guess is Jan 2007 (01/07 on the can)


Agreed. Headstamp is 06.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 2:42:46 AM EDT
Doh!  My order has been held up because CIA wanted to verify I had read the keyholing disclaimer before they shipped.  Crap.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 3:46:59 AM EDT
OT but...

I'll bet a "keyholing" 68gr. 5.45mm bullet would really fuck a BADGUY up at in home, self-defense range.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 3:03:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bsf:
Doh!  My order has been held up because CIA wanted to verify I had read the keyholing disclaimer before they shipped.  Crap.


Yeah, my rep repeated the disclaimer 3 or 4 times while on the phone today.  Makes one wonder if it'll shoot decently out of any rifle at all.  Hopefully so, guess we'll find out when a range report finally hits ........
Link Posted: 10/18/2008 5:09:55 PM EDT
Bump for weekend range reports.
Link Posted: 10/19/2008 6:32:30 AM EDT
Strange that they're so adamant about the keyholing issue.
Link Posted: 10/19/2008 7:50:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2008 7:52:02 PM EDT by mrbullets]

Originally Posted By Skillshot:
Strange that they're so adamant about the keyholing issue.


They probably know something we don't about the consistency/accuracy of this stuff.  With the disclaimer I guess they could refuse to take back several tons of crappy ammunition IF that turns out to be the case.  Wonder if this would explain the sale on it this month .......  hope not.

Oh well, gotta wait for range reports to be certain.  Hopefull somebody will run some through a WASR/SAR/Intrac/Tantal and not just the AR uppers so we can get an overall picture.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 7:48:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:27:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2008 3:40:07 PM EDT by mrbullets]
The pressure's on tctlrld & bsf!  Thousands are awaiting their range reports .......
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:28:03 PM EDT
Our luck, we'll get the range reports, all will be good, and the century special will go off
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:30:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mrbullets:
The pressure's on tctlrld & bsf!  Thousands are awaiting their range reports .......


The fate of arfcom is in your hands...
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:55:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mrbullets:
The pressure's on tctlrld & bsf!  Thousands are awaiting their range reports .......

I feel no pressure.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 5:32:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2008 1:42:01 AM EDT by mrbullets]

Originally Posted By jnk556:
Our luck, we'll get the range reports, all will be good, and the century special will go off


Well, we've got 'til the end of the month anyway ......
Link Posted: 10/21/2008 4:12:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jnk556:
Our luck, we'll get the range reports, all will be good, and the century special will go off

Ironically, the more I proceed in haste towards a goal, the longer it takes me to reach it.  
Link Posted: 10/21/2008 7:55:06 AM EDT
Help me tctlrld & bsf, you're my only hope!

Link Posted: 10/21/2008 10:44:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2008 10:44:50 AM EDT by Hebrew_Battle_Rifle]
I only have about 12,000 rds of the Bulgarian 545. I want to add to my stash so that I can rest a little easier. But I need to know if this ammo is worth stashing.
If I were still employed, I would just bite the bullet and make an order. But, with limited resources, I need to be more frugal.
So, please, tctlrld & bsf, hurry the hell up
Link Posted: 10/21/2008 10:56:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bsf:

Originally Posted By mrbullets:
The pressure's on tctlrld & bsf!  Thousands are awaiting their range reports .......

I feel no pressure.


They're going to kill that poor woman! Her life is in your hands, Dude!
Link Posted: 10/23/2008 1:49:05 PM EDT
Mine just arrived.  I may be busy tomorrow during the daylight hours w/ work.  I will bring my setup along and try to hit the range if work takes me that way for a quick T&E of the ammo, though.
Link Posted: 10/23/2008 6:54:26 PM EDT
Just got my upper today, can't wait to see your results, so I can deside on what ammo I'm buying for it!
Link Posted: 10/23/2008 8:07:20 PM EDT
Sorry, I've been on a business trip on the wrong coast. Waiting for my red eye flight back home as we speak. I should be able to make it to the range this weekened. Stay tuned!
Link Posted: 10/24/2008 4:00:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2008 8:33:08 PM EDT by bsf]
:)
Link Posted: 10/24/2008 4:29:51 PM EDT
Thanks bsf, that's at least a thumbnail review.  While not great, it doesn't sound as bad as was expected.  Awaiting further details.

Just got my four tins this evening, a buddy snarfed two from me right off the bat, didn't care about the caveat.  He's rapidly entering full-bore  Osama Obama Banana panic mode ..........
Link Posted: 10/24/2008 4:51:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mrbullets:

Just got my four tins this evening, a buddy snarfed two from me right off the bat, didn't care about the caveat.  He's rapidly entering full-bore  Osama Obama Banana panic mode ..........


Yeah, wish I had the money to hoard this stuff, about broke me up to buy the upper, and now I need ammo, and more mags!  Has anyone shot the russian ammo from the uppers??  how does it shoot?  I might buy a crate or two soon, when I get some funds
Thanks bsf, you've lifted alot of weight from some people.
Link Posted: 10/24/2008 8:32:43 PM EDT
Ok, I have time to sit down and relay more information.

S&W/Talo M&P 16” barreled upper (1:8 twist) w/ stock f-height fsb
YHM lightweight free float 1-piece forearm
Aimpoint ML2 (4moa dot)
Larue cantilever mount
Stag lower + provided extra power hammer spring
’06 headstamp (01/07 on tin?) HotShot 68gr fmj
Total number of rounds fired: 220
C Product 30rd mags (no malfunctions)
1- 5.45
4 - 5.56 (never loaded beyond 10rd)
Weather: ~45º, windy, & rainy.  What more could I ask for?

First off, I basically function tested.  Accuracy tests will have to be done by a better shooter w/ a better setup.  That said my groups at 50m ran ~2” using a makeshift rest off a bench.  Similar setup yields ~1.5” w/ Bulgarian.  There was no keyholing through ~70rd at 50m.  I detected no keyholing through ~60rd at 100m, 30rd of which were simply fired into the unmarked center of a large poster board.  I could only count 27 or 28 holes.  I would assume I closely overlapped 2 or 3.  HotShot groups were about 1 – 1.5” lower than the Bulgarian at 50m.  90rd of drills inside of 25m yielded nothing remarkable.

The results seem to indicate this stuff is good enough for my uses.  The entire reason for me putting together a 5.45 AR was to allow me to use cheaper ammo during high round-count training without going to a different platform.  Though pinpoint accuracy would be great, I generally pursue “combat accuracy” during drills.  This HotShot ammo should suffice for that.  I ordered 12 tins and plan to sell some of my .223/5.56 to finance the purchase.
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