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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/25/2005 6:28:44 AM EDT
I have been spending more time in the Survival Forum. One of the sugestions is to have an AR and a
.308 to punch through cover, car doors ect.
How effective is an AK at performing some of these tasks at 300 meters or less?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:30:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:41:13 AM EDT
Cardoors, unless armoured, aren't much cover....just about anything flying over 300 m/sec will punch trough...if it still has enough velocity and form to do damage remains to be seen.

You can trust a typical fmj rifle round to have all that...
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 12:50:21 PM EDT
So the question isn't whether I need a .308 ( everybody needs 1), but when do I need it, and I was to get one .308, which one should I get ??
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 12:57:38 PM EDT
The 7.62x39 roughly equates to a Winchester 30-30 which isn't bad, but it's not in the samee league as the .308. Which .308 to choose? For semi-auto, I would look at an M1A, for a bolt gun, a Remington 700 series. Good luck.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 12:58:56 PM EDT
Forget the AR get an AK in 7.62X39 and a .308 I suggest a Fal or even a PTR91/Cetme. M1A has a high costs and is not really any more reliable. When shooting through cover there is more to consider than car bodies. 5.56 will not shoot through trees of any discernable thickness either. Also with 5.56 you must score more hits on average. You do not get hit 2-6 times with any 7.62 rifle round and keep fighting.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 1:04:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:
Also with 5.56 you must score more hits on average. You do not get hit 2-6 times with any 7.62 rifle round and keep fighting.



right, you do no get hit with a 5.56 2-6 TIMES AND KEEP FIGHTING EITHER, what a load of crap
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 1:08:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:
You do not get hit 2-6 times with any 7.62 rifle round and keep fighting.





I'd rather be shot 6 times with 7.62x39 than 5.56mm M193. YMMV.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 1:10:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 1:12:38 PM EDT by Dave_A]
7.62x39 ~= 30-30

7.62x54 (ala SVD, FPK, PKM, Mosin) ~= .308

As for hit-and-keep-fighting stories, there are plenty of medal citations from WWII (on all sides) that show what someone can still manage to do after being hit with (8mm Mauser, 303 Brit, 30-06, 7.62x54R)... So it should stand to reason that the same will be possible with the current generation of assault-weapon loads...
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 1:38:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LightSpeed2:
So the question isn't whether I need a .308 ( everybody needs 1), but when do I need it, and I was to get one .308, which one should I get ??



1919A4
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 2:45:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:59:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:03:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:08:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 5:11:54 PM EDT by LightSpeed2]

Originally Posted By Templar:

Originally Posted By LightSpeed2:

Originally Posted By Templar:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Range%20Day%20Aug%2005%20full/Range%20Day%20half%20size/RangeDay08-07-05009.jpg




What "exactly" is this......newbie here



DSA StG-58A, it's the finest post 89 FAL sold.

I like 'em!

img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Range%20Day%20Aug%2005%20full/Range%20Day%20half%20size/RangeDay08-07-05019.jpg




Trade you my Romy for it. I'll throw in a sling and a Jennings Pistol
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:57:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:49:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:
Forget the AR get an AK in 7.62X39 and a .308 I suggest a Fal or even a PTR91/Cetme. M1A has a high costs and is not really any more reliable. When shooting through cover there is more to consider than car bodies. 5.56 will not shoot through trees of any discernable thickness either. Also with 5.56 you must score more hits on average. You do not get hit 2-6 times with any 7.62 rifle round and keep fighting.



If I didn't know you were full of BS, I'd ask you to show proof.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:21:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 7:25:43 PM EDT by LightSpeed2]

Originally Posted By Templar:

Originally Posted By LightSpeed2:

Originally Posted By Templar:

Originally Posted By LightSpeed2:

Originally Posted By Templar:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Range%20Day%20Aug%2005%20full/Range%20Day%20half%20size/RangeDay08-07-05009.jpg




What "exactly" is this......newbie here



DSA StG-58A, it's the finest post 89 FAL sold.

I like 'em!

img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Range%20Day%20Aug%2005%20full/Range%20Day%20half%20size/RangeDay08-07-05019.jpg




Trade you my Romy for it. I'll throw in a sling and a Jennings Pistol



Damn, how could I refuse a deal like that?

www.dsarms.com



Performance aside, "That has a High Coolness Factor."

Are the prices on the web site what you pay or just what they advertise?

I gotta go with the Desert Cammo.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:48:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:51:53 PM EDT
7.62x39 is an obsolete round.

It has a lot of positives, though. It's cheap, readily available, and the guns that shoot it are affordable. It's reasonably effective. 5.45 is better if you really want an AK. I like AKs, I have both calibers. ARs too.

5.56 is better for most things. .308 may be better for others.

I just bought a G1 on an Imbel for $650 with 12 magazines and 200 rounds of USGI .308. That kind of cash probably wouldn't get you a barrelled action if you were looking at M14/M1A parts... and we haven't even gotten to the price of magazines yet.



Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:54:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

Originally Posted By Mattl:
Also with 5.56 you must score more hits on average. You do not get hit 2-6 times with any 7.62 rifle round and keep fighting.



right, you do no get hit with a 5.56 2-6 TIMES AND KEEP FIGHTING EITHER, what a load of crap



I know 2 Fallujah vets, and a Sammarah vet that would tell you otherwise. Unless you scored chest or head they often would continue fighting till they bled out.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 10:28:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:
I know 2 Fallujah vets, and a Sammarah vet that would tell you otherwise. Unless you scored chest or head they often would continue fighting till they bled out.





No shit, SHOT PLACEMENT is more important than caliber.

I am an OEF vet, and I know several guys who were shot with 7.62x39 rounds and survived. Does this mean that all 7.62x39 wounds are non-fatal? Of course not.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:46:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eodinert:
7.62x39 is an obsolete round.




For military use, yes. But as you've said it isn't without it's own set of benefits. The 7.62mm X 39mm is a mid-range round, where as the .308 caliber is a high powered round. For 300 meters or less the 7.62mm round is still very effective. The higher recoil of the .308 might prove to be a negative for mid-range tactical use. I'm not saying that it can't be used for mid-range stuff, I'm just saying the lower recoil of the 7.62mm would make follow up shots easier.

The AK47 has proven itself effective at those distances on the battlefields of the past. The 5.45mm X 39mm round that replaced it just followed along with the same ideals for a mid-range weapon: low-recoil = better follow up shot capability & possibly accuracy too.
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