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Link Posted: 7/31/2010 3:17:18 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By oldrock:
really enjoying reading this thread. I have 3 of my 4 cameras up and running now so thought I would post pics of the CNB VBN-24VF compared to the cheapies that came with the DVR. I will say these pics were recorded at CIF since I still can't figure out how to change the recording resolution on the DVR yet but I am still on the learning curve. I probably still need to do alot of tweaking on the dome camera but at least it is mounted and zoomed where I wanted it to overlook the driveway. I'll post up night pics once tomorrow. Not nearly sa crisp as your high res cams but considering I have under $500 invested, I think it should work for us.

http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx78/oldrock/misc/731101a.jpg
cheapie cam #1 showing the street corner/front yard. This image is tinted kinda brown so not sure if maybe cam is bad

http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx78/oldrock/misc/731103a.jpg
cheapie cam #3 showing side yard and bass boat. This one seems better than the other cheapier color wise

http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx78/oldrock/misc/731102a.jpg
this is the 24vf camera. All I've done is adjust the zoom so still need to do the image tweaking but I really like this camera so far


There's something seriously wrong with that first camera... the colors are off badly.  If that's a day/night camera, I wonder if the IR-cut filter (ICR) isn't stuck (eg. it's not filtering out IR during the day... that always give you wonky colors).

The other cheapie image is better, but definitely lower-res than the CNB camera.  Looks like the 24vf gives a decent picture for the money.

Nice work!  

(watch out for the CCTV bug... once it bites, you'll begin tweaking things... it's a slippery slope )
Link Posted: 7/31/2010 3:45:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Originally Posted By Merrell:
Heck of a thread you've put together - this should get copied into the Library as a camera FAQ


I don't believe I've ever been to the library.  We had talked at one point about stickying this thread in the Safes and Home Security forum, but there's some kind of account glitch (or glitch with my proxy server) that prevents me from posting there.  

Posters have continued to add to this thread over the last year or so, and it just keeps growing as posters take on new projects.  Our friendly neighborhood SF mod marked it "do not archive," so I figured that was probably good enough for now.

BTW, glad you enjoyed it... it's a lot of information to digest.
Link Posted: 7/31/2010 4:06:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: oldrock] [#3]
i know what you mean about the bug... It is kinda fun seeing what you can do to make things better, etc. I'm already thinking about swapping that crappy camera showing the corner with another CNB one. I really like the fact you can zoom them to get just the picture you want. I also think they do a very decent job for the money. Also I am only recording at cif resolution still so should be alot nicer image when I get it running at D1 resolution. I had to call the DVR manufacturer since it states online that they are capble of D1 resolution but it defaults to CIF and I cant find a way to change it. They had to bump it up to the engineering team who said they would get back with me monday.

I was looking at the focus on the 24VF and think the focus needs adjustment. It looks good in the close frame but is a little blurred as you look back at the street level. Going to go adjust that to get a crisper image at the street zone and also do some tweaking on the setup.
Link Posted: 8/5/2010 11:21:45 PM EDT
[#4]
OK.  Was able to do some work on my new project today.  It consisted of pulling some cable for the new access point (and a couple of cameras) in a partially-two-story structure.

I started by finding a nice closet in which to mount all of our PoE switches, UPS's, and PSUs.  Yes, I know the hole isn't square...  I cut it with a jigsaw from the top of a ladder in a very small space... I'm just happy it wasn't worse.  Cover plates will make it look neat:







The second floor has a space between the first-floor ceiling, and the second floor joists (place has 12-ft ceilings on the first floor), so I had to get a fishing-rod with a hook on the end about 15 feet to that hole in the top of the closet, and catch a loop of wire.  That took forever.







Then I ended up feeding it across to an un-air-conditioned attic space:







Just below this attic access (via taking out a couple of screws)







Step through that hole, look down, and there's our red Cat6 cable ends:








Look to the right and there's where it has to go, around a corner, across an open area, and through a concrete block wall:







Here's the inside of said wall:







And here's the outside, complete with old, non-functional camera mounted:







Removing it reveals now-useless wiring, which we removed:







And fed our Cat6 through the hole:








The Ubiquiti access point has a mounting plate, but no place through which to draw a cable without making another hole in our cover.  I was unwilling to do that, so I made a hole in the mounting plate:







And screwed it in place over the old mounting plate:








Here's the AP mounted; all that's left is to hook it up to power.  The AP is interesting, in that those external LEDs light up whenever a client is connected to the AP.  It also acts as a signal-strength meter.  It may look like I have that mounting plate upside-down (like you'd want the AP to click DOWN on that mounting plate instead of click UP... but it locks into place very solidly, so there was no issue in mounting that plate either way.  In either case, you want it mounted antenna up and cable down, with a small "U" or loop on the bottom to act as a drip loop.






Will try to post some additional pictures when I have the client-side ready to feed some video.
Link Posted: 8/6/2010 9:37:55 AM EDT
[#5]
Grayman...

We need to discuss license plate capable cameras again.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1074948&page=1
Link Posted: 8/6/2010 10:01:11 AM EDT
[#6]
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
Grayman...

We need to discuss license plate capable cameras again.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1074948&page=1


Threw in my two cents.

I haven't done any formal LPR stuff.  I've looked at it, but have not yet put together a working solution.  

None of it is cheap.
Link Posted: 8/6/2010 4:03:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Anyone wired an AXIS T90A20 IR-LED ?

Here is a look inside


The 2 on the left are for the feed to the device. I don't understand how to connect the wires.

The L N E is where the 120 line goes. Don't know how to attach or the size of the wire to use. Pic below shows where the wires enter the box. The device is wired(bottom pic) and the holes look like they are sized right. The hole on the right is where the 120 line comes in. The only cable I have that would fit is a low voltage one.




Instructions are no help.
Suggestions?
Link Posted: 8/6/2010 4:50:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheGrayMan] [#8]
Originally Posted By ger42:
Anyone wired an AXIS T90A20 IR-LED ?

Here is a look inside

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k308/Ger42/House%20Outside/IMG_3008.jpg
The 2 on the left are for the feed to the device. I don't understand how to connect the wires.
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k308/Ger42/House%20Outside/IMG_3009.jpg
The L N E is where the 120 line goes. Don't know how to attach or the size of the wire to use. Pic below shows where the wires enter the box. The device is wired(bottom pic) and the holes look like they are sized right. The hole on the right is where the 120 line comes in. The only cable I have that would fit is a low voltage one.
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k308/Ger42/House%20Outside/IMG_3010.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k308/Ger42/House%20Outside/IMG_3011.jpg


Instructions are no help.
Suggestions?


I have one of those power supplies out in the garage... let me dig it out and see if I can shed some light on things.  

Stand by.

ETA: mine isn't quite like yours, so it may not be much help.

Your connections to the illuminator panels look pretty straightforward... red is positive by convention, and black is negative, likewise by convention.  Hooking those up should be trivial.

The AC connections are naturally going to be polarity-independent (it's AC current, so polarity doesn't matter, unlike your DC connections for the panels).

ETA2:  It says "auto-sensing" in the instructions linked here, so maybe you can hook it up any way you want.  You should probably be using 12 or 14-gauge wire, and preferably something round (to fit through that cable opening), and something rated for outdoor use.  

ETA3:  "LNE" usually stand for Live, Neutral, Earth, which by American convention should be black, white, and green, respectively (for single-phase)
Link Posted: 8/6/2010 6:39:50 PM EDT
[#9]
My question is how do the wires actually connect. Are they push in? Do I have to move something to lock them in? Are the little white things on each of the "boxes" levers that need to be pushed/pulled?
Link Posted: 8/6/2010 7:46:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Originally Posted By ger42:
My question is how do the wires actually connect. Are they push in? Do I have to move something to lock them in? Are the little white things on each of the "boxes" levers that need to be pushed/pulled?


I think they're push-ins.  The little lever takes some of the tension off so you can pull the wire out.
Link Posted: 8/7/2010 8:59:22 AM EDT
[#11]
I posted this on the CCTV forum and was told
Here are the instructions. If these can't help hire a professional installer. You are dealing with high voltage enough to seriously hurt you and/or kill you. This in not a do it your self product.

There was a link to the same instructions that came with the device. So I guess I now have to search for a Axis professional installer to hook this up.
Link Posted: 8/7/2010 10:15:20 AM EDT
[#12]
Originally Posted By ger42:
I posted this on the CCTV forum and was told
Here are the instructions. If these can't help hire a professional installer. You are dealing with high voltage enough to seriously hurt you and/or kill you. This in not a do it your self product.

There was a link to the same instructions that came with the device. So I guess I now have to search for a Axis professional installer to hook this up.


Hmph.  Some posters have a "only pros should be doing this" attitude. ... though they may just be saying that for liability reasons.  

They do have a point about the electrical hazards, however... make damned sure you've got the circuit-breaker off, and use a sniffer to make certain it's off.  They probably don't want your heirs coming back and suing them/the forum if you electrocute yourself.

The "ground" or Earth wire ("E" on the circuit-board you showed) should be the green/uninsulated wire.  The Black wire is hot/Live ("L" on your circuit-board... I remember it by black=death), and the white wire is Neutral ("N" on your circuit-board).  

Here is a link

More at wikipedia

Here's another link

And another link


If you're not confident enough that you have it right, you could have an electrician hook it up for you... that might be cheaper than a CCTV guy.  I'm not a professional at this, and it is your ass and your equipment on the line if you get it wrong... so if you're not comfortable DIYing it, you might want to call somebody who does this for a living.

I don't want to be sued in the event of your death either

Link Posted: 8/7/2010 3:32:29 PM EDT
[#13]
"If these can't help hire a professional installer. You are dealing with high voltage enough to seriously hurt you and/or kill you. This in not a do it your self product. "


They gotta be kidding?
Link Posted: 8/7/2010 4:04:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheGrayMan] [#14]
I played around a bit with one of my PSUs (for the same kind of illuminator) and took some pics.  You sound frustrated, so hopefully this will shed some light on it.

Here it is with the cover off... it's a big toroidal transformer.  This version puts out 12.5V at 5A, 12v at 500mA, and 24vAC, depending on which connectors you're using.  The larger-output connectors only energize when they sense a load, and the smaller-output connections are for cameras or other sensors.







Zooming in reveals a connector just like the one you have.  It's labeled exactly the same... only difference is that it uses screw terminals rather than push terminals:







You can use almost any kind of wire.  The white wire you see to the left is four-conductor for more-complex circuits, where the right-hand wire with the yellow jacket is standard three-conductor.  We'll use the yellow for simplicity sake.







Remove the outer jacket:








Strip enough to go into the connector.  Don't strip more than you need... bare wire is NOT your friend:








Here is some I've fed into the wiring nipple on the bottom of the PSU.  I circled the wire-ends that are going into that green connection block.  I also circled the nut that screws onto that wiring nipple.  ALWAYS remember to put the wire through that nut before threading it into the PSU.  I always forget, and end up having to pull everything apart and do it over again.








Here it is, all wired up and ready to go.  Now I just have to screw a simple plug-end onto the end I already stripped and plug it in (in reality, you'd wire the free end into your nearest junction box).








And just to prove that it works, here it is hooked up the 120VAC, and delivering 12VDC


Link Posted: 8/7/2010 6:17:35 PM EDT
[#15]
TheGrayMan thank you very much.  
This is the line that did it
"Zooming in reveals a connector just like the one you have. It's labeled exactly the same... only difference is that it uses screw terminals rather than push terminals: "
I had the L N E down it was how they connected. I guess I'll tin the stranded wires that come from the IR device once I have the length figured out.

I'm assuming you used 12/2 since that is what you had. I'm thinking a round 14/2 should work just fine. Tomorrow after walking and feeding the dogs it will be out to home depot.
Tomorrow I'll tackle setting up the 2 Acti 1231 cameras. Setting them up not installing them. I"m waiting for my installer to run the cables. I'm too old (68) to be crawling around a hot low attic in the Florida summer heat.

You are truly a credit to your upbringing. I can't find the words to thank you enough for the time you have taken to help me out. It's nice to know there are people like yourself still out there.
Again a big THANK YOU
Link Posted: 8/7/2010 6:45:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheGrayMan] [#16]
Originally Posted By ger42:
TheGrayMan thank you very much.  
This is the line that did it
"Zooming in reveals a connector just like the one you have. It's labeled exactly the same... only difference is that it uses screw terminals rather than push terminals: "
I had the L N E down it was how they connected. I guess I'll tin the stranded wires that come from the IR device once I have the length figured out.

I'm assuming you used 12/2 since that is what you had. I'm thinking a round 14/2 should work just fine. Tomorrow after walking and feeding the dogs it will be out to home depot.
Tomorrow I'll tackle setting up the 2 Acti 1231 cameras. Setting them up not installing them. I"m waiting for my installer to run the cables. I'm too old (68) to be crawling around a hot low attic in the Florida summer heat.

You are truly a credit to your upbringing. I can't find the words to thank you enough for the time you have taken to help me out. It's nice to know there are people like yourself still out there.
Again a big THANK YOU


Good guess... that's exactly why I used it.  14/2 should work equally well.

BTW, make sure you make use of the "IP Utility" that comes with the Acti cameras... it's pretty handy for finding the cameras on your network, and assigning them a fixed, usable IP address.

Acti cameras also come from the factory with the default login "Admin" (make sure you capitalize the "A"), and default password "123456"  

I'd change those at your earliest convenience.

ETA: and no need to thank me.
Link Posted: 8/9/2010 12:19:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Thank you for this awsome thread.  It will prove very useful soon.  I'll get around to actually reading it when the time comes.

Have you ever messed with a video program like Vitamin D video (http://www.vitamindinc.com/)

If not, you need to check it out.
(I appologize if you've already addressed it.  I haven't read most of the thread yet.)
Link Posted: 8/9/2010 12:39:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Originally Posted By fluwoebers:
Thank you for this awsome thread.  It will prove very useful soon.  I'll get around to actually reading it when the time comes.

Have you ever messed with a video program like Vitamin D video (http://www.vitamindinc.com/)

If not, you need to check it out.
(I appologize if you've already addressed it.  I haven't read most of the thread yet.)


Never... but after looking at that link, the price on it is extremely reasonable.
Link Posted: 8/10/2010 5:03:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Here are some more pics on the project I have going... it's an analog-to-IP conversion in an existing installation.  They had an analog DVR (6 channels), but the resolution of the DVR and the cameras left enough to be desired that an upgrade was necessary.

Previous installers did a pretty nice job, and I used some of their equipment/work in the new install, in addition to cutting new holes and placing new hardware where necessary.

Everything will be mounted on plywood, high up  in a closet (unreachable without a ladder).  The gray box you see there is a 24VAC power supply (better than 12VDC for longer cable runs).  







That PSU gets its power from a regular cord that comes out the other side of that wall (plate on the right-hand side):







Removing that plate reveals a regular cord attached with wiring nuts, and wire that runs through a stud and up the wall:







Here's the hole that carries the wire through the stud into the adjacent stud-space:







Existing wiring is a gift from God... always use it.  In this case, we're going to use it to pull our new network cable:







The other side of the wall (inside a closet) reveals a couple of outlet boxes.  Removing the plates reveals why those are there.  They had to drill through a cross-member to get the wire where they needed it to go.  We're going to use both of those holes.







Using the existing power wiring (and some electrical tape) allows us to pull cat6 cable through the stud, and up into that second outlet box.  The top outlet will be power for the PSU.  The second will be for Cat6







We go back to the other side of the wall, cut the cat6, and get ready to put a cable end on it:







Aaaaand done:








Now here's something pretty neat.  If you're not familiar with 3com, they make an entire line of "Intellijack" switches.  They're literally network switches that fit into a standard outlet box in your wall.  They come in standard 10/100 or Gigabit, they can do PoE (this one will be PoE powered, and that top port can pass PoE through to another device... NICE feature...), and are available for cheap on Ebay (I think this one was $20).  These are great for adding a switch and turning a single Cat5/6 run into multiple ports without cluttering up your desktop with extra network switches.











More to come...
Link Posted: 8/11/2010 7:09:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Here is an interesting review on Anandtech about a new security camera service by a company called DropCam.  They actually use Axis cameras, and provide a software front-end, and a cloud-based online service for storing the video.

In other words, no DVR on-site for somebody to steal.  The service seems to run about $30/month, in addition to the cost of the hardware.

An interesting approach/service for the IP-camera-minded customer.
Link Posted: 8/12/2010 5:57:58 AM EDT
[#21]
Here are some more pics of the Ubiquiti wireless gear.









These APs and bridges all use the same linux-based OS, called "AirOS," and the interface is the same.  They're accessed via a web browser (firefox works just as well as IE), and negotiating the settings is done via a set of tabs at the top of the page:

First, the "Main" tab.  This one shows you signal strength, SSID, IP address, and some connection stats.  







Next comes the "Link Setup" tab.  This is the one where you set the ESSID of the AP you're attempting to associate (the "select" button will give you a list of APs that are reachable, and you can pick yours out of the list).  There is an entire list of security types, up to and including WPA2.







The "Network" tab allows you to set the mode being used by the AP (including bridge mode, etc), and your ethernet address.  There is even a firewall.







The "Advanced" tab is for some of the finer adjustments in this piece of equipment... some of them are over-my-head, but if you're a wireless engineer, you probably know what to do here.







The "Services" tab shows all the extras the AP/Bridge includes, including SSH, and syslog.  You can also set your browser to use HTTPS if you're not an SSH guy, yet still want a secure connection to the AP.







The "System" tab allows you to change the login/PW, set an account that can access the AP and view the settings (but not change anything), upgrade the firmware, and so forth.







So far, it seems well-designed, and looks functional.  I'll post up some tests on throughput with video when I get a chance.
Link Posted: 8/12/2010 6:39:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Here's a little taste of the throughput.  This is three megapixel streams being run through the Nanostation simultaneously.  The bandwidth used seems to run 4-5 Mbps, and that's about 6-7 FPS for each stream.

Link Posted: 8/13/2010 3:10:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheGrayMan] [#23]
A few more of the other project:

Starting with this:







We need to mount a UPS up on that plywood to power the switches and power-supplies to the cameras and AP.  Always measure twice and cut/drill once.

Screws about six inches apart are what we need...








Always drill pilot holes to make your life easier, then add a couple of wood screws:







And the screw heads (left sticking out just a little bit) match the holes on the back of the UPS nicely:







We're going to mount the PoE switch on the right side:








Screws at the edges are adequate to hold it in place:








And here's what we have so far... will add more pics as I get them:






Link Posted: 8/13/2010 11:41:45 PM EDT
[#24]
Here's some more on the Ubiquiti Nanostation.  







The Nanostation, like the Picostation, is an AP/Bridge (comes in wireless N and wireless a/b/g... this one's the latter).  It differs from the Picostation in that it has a built-in directional panel antenna, unlike the omnidirectional whip of the Pico..  Like the Picostation, it comes with its own "passive PoE" power supply.  It's worth noting that these Ubiqiuti units DO NOT conform to the regular 48v PoE standard.  That is to say, you can't just plug them into your regular run-of-the-mill PoE switch... the voltage of regular PoE is too high, and the device won't work.  Ubiquiti does sell an adapter unit that steps the PoE-standard voltage down to work with their APs... or you can just use the little black brick that comes with the unit.  Either way will work.

Here's the radiation pattern of the Nanostation panel... note the main radiation lobe is about a 60-90 degree sector







If you pick one up, I recommend getting the mount they sell for that unit.  It comes with a screw-in option, or a suction-cup mount.  We're going to use the latter:







Here it is mounted on a vehicle.  The lights on the back are, from left-to-right, power, link, and a dB meter for signal strength (adjustable in the unit's firmware).  It's a nice visual representation of your signal strength (sorry for the blurry pic).







Here's the Nanostation talking to the Picostation, and streaming video from about 100 yards away, down a hill, and through a few trees (not heavily wooded).  The dip in the graph was me changing video sources.








Here's that Nano again, talking to the Pico from another direction.  This is also about 100 yards away, a couple fewer trees in the way, but a tall chain-link fence in between:








Here is the signal driving away.  We're another couple of hundred yards down the road, with some more trees, and the signal is dropping off.  We're still getting video, though







Here's a graph going down a cross street.  Still several hundred yards from the AP, but pretty fair Line-of-Sight:








Here we are several hundred more yards down the street and behind a large stand of trees... signal has dropped off precipitously.  





The take-home lesson is that these devices appear quite functional... and the range is excellent (provided you don't have too much vegetation inbetween... 802.11 doesn't penetrate very well through wooded areas).  These might be the perfect way to add some network cameras to an outbuilding, and send the video back to the main house for storage/analysis.

Next on the list is really stressing these devices to see how well they maintain throughput under a heavy network load.

If these hold up, I may have to revise my opinion of the wireless option for cameras... at least for these devices.
Link Posted: 8/15/2010 1:10:42 AM EDT
[#25]
Good stuff Grayman.



Have you seen any good solutions for getting Mobotix video to a HDMI television?  I was thinking along the lines of a Mac Mini (not sure if the older ones have HDMI out), but that's not as elegant of a solution as I'd like.  Wishing my TV had an Ethernet port....but alas only HDMI.
Link Posted: 8/15/2010 3:00:19 AM EDT
[#26]
Originally Posted By angrymarmot:
Good stuff Grayman.

Have you seen any good solutions for getting Mobotix video to a HDMI television?  I was thinking along the lines of a Mac Mini (not sure if the older ones have HDMI out), but that's not as elegant of a solution as I'd like.  Wishing my TV had an Ethernet port....but alas only HDMI.


A Mac mini would work, as would a mini-ITX solution, or other embedded computer.

Having an ethernet port on your TV would not help, as you need some sort of computer to render that packet-stream into video.  Fortunately, it's all 2D, and no exotic video cards or 3D rendering engines are required.  Embedded video cards, including those on the average all-in-one motherboard, are perfectly adequate to render the video.  Even multiple streams are fine.  I'm using a Micro-ATX board in my main DVR, and using the built-in Intel 4500X video...  no issues or problems.

What you DO need is robust network infrastructure.  You can only push so much through 100-megabit ethernet, and even gigabit can choke when using the on-board network card.  I've seen on-board network capability fail, and as a result I recommend a nice PCI-E gigabit card.  One of the other things you'll sometimes see with on-board networking stuff, including gigabit ethernet ports, is those ports attached to the regular PCI bus, rather than a PCI-E connection.  The regular PCI bus bottlenecks at 33MB/s, and effectively throttles down your network throughput, regardless of the wire-speed of the external connection.
Link Posted: 8/17/2010 1:18:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheGrayMan] [#27]
Here is a little video from a bar shooting in Texas.

The bar owner had a surveillance system (appears to be analog... can't tell you what brand), and it captured him nearly getting whacked by the police (he pointed a gun at the police, who shot at him, but missed).  He has integrated-IR on his cameras.

He seriously erred in not utilizing his surveillance system properly.  If you have a setup like his, please USE IT.  If you hear something go "bump" in the night, turn on your monitor and look at your camera views before charging outside with a pistol.  If he'd done so, he would have seen that those were cops out behind his building, as evidenced by their clearly-visible badges and gun-belts.  

He very nearly got himself killed by NOT utilizing the enormous intel advantage one gains by having ten extra sets of eyes than can see in the dark.  He's also very lucky that these were police officers, who held their fire after a couple of shots.  He could just as easily have walked outside into an ambush, or found himself outgunned by a group of gang-bangers.

CCTV offers enormous advantages, including the ability to see without being seen, the ability to see several places at once, and the ability to size up your opposition without exposing yourself to hostile fire.  Don't throw that advantage away.

Link Posted: 8/17/2010 11:47:25 PM EDT
[#28]



Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:



Originally Posted By angrymarmot:

Good stuff Grayman.



Have you seen any good solutions for getting Mobotix video to a HDMI television?  I was thinking along the lines of a Mac Mini (not sure if the older ones have HDMI out), but that's not as elegant of a solution as I'd like.  Wishing my TV had an Ethernet port....but alas only HDMI.




A Mac mini would work, as would a mini-ITX solution, or other embedded computer.



Having an ethernet port on your TV would not help, as you need some sort of computer to render that packet-stream into video.  Fortunately, it's all 2D, and no exotic video cards or 3D rendering engines are required.  Embedded video cards, including those on the average all-in-one motherboard, are perfectly adequate to render the video.  Even multiple streams are fine.  I'm using a Micro-ATX board in my main DVR, and using the built-in Intel 4500X video...  no issues or problems.



What you DO need is robust network infrastructure.  You can only push so much through 100-megabit ethernet, and even gigabit can choke when using the on-board network card.  I've seen on-board network capability fail, and as a result I recommend a nice PCI-E gigabit card.  One of the other things you'll sometimes see with on-board networking stuff, including gigabit ethernet ports, is those ports attached to the regular PCI bus, rather than a PCI-E connection.  The regular PCI bus bottlenecks at 33MB/s, and effectively throttles down your network throughput, regardless of the wire-speed of the external connection.
Real network engineers don't use embedded cards. :)  Considering that I spent the last 10 years in networking, and the last 5 speaking OSPF fluently and BGP functionally, let's just say I have somewhat higher standards for what I believe my own network should be capable of and have well over $2500 invested in just raw infrastructure.  Overkill for a home - certainly, but that's just my nature to overbuild :)  Unfortunately, one of my good friends has WELL in excess of 80 drops of Cat 6 in his house.  I thought having nearly 40 in mine was ridiculous....but damn...



That said a full-blown PC just to have the ability to look at a video stream seems a waste to me...but the market is the market.  





 
Link Posted: 8/17/2010 11:48:51 PM EDT
[#29]



Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:


Here is a little video from a bar shooting in Texas.



The bar owner had a surveillance system (appears to be analog... can't tell you what brand), and it captured him nearly getting whacked by the police (he pointed a gun at the police, who shot at him, but missed).  He has integrated-IR on his cameras.



He seriously erred in not utilizing his surveillance system properly.  If you have a setup like his, please USE IT.  If you hear something go "bump" in the night, turn on your monitor and look at your camera views before charging outside with a pistol.  If he'd done so, he would have seen that those were cops out behind his building, as evidenced by their clearly-visible badges and gun-belts.  



He very nearly got himself killed by NOT utilizing the enormous intel advantage one gains by having ten extra sets of eyes than can see in the dark.  He's also very lucky that these were police officers, who held their fire after a couple of shots.  He could just as easily have walked outside into an ambush, or found himself outgunned by a group of gang-bangers.



CCTV offers enormous advantages, including the ability to see without being seen, the ability to see several places at once, and the ability to size up your opposition without exposing yourself to hostile fire.  Don't throw that advantage away.



http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg286/TGrayman/Texas%20bar%20shooting/th_Texasbar.jpg


Owner situational awareness FAIL.

 
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 12:48:43 PM EDT
[#30]
GrayMan,



I am sure you have been asked this but I could not find it in your list.  I am looking for a beginner DVR w/ cameras and cabling (complete setup) that has at least four cameras and capabilities of expansion.  Decent quality and power are desirable.  Where should I start looking and what brand?



Thank you!



FB
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 3:58:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheGrayMan] [#31]
Originally Posted By Firebird69:
GrayMan,

I am sure you have been asked this but I could not find it in your list.  I am looking for a beginner DVR w/ cameras and cabling (complete setup) that has at least four cameras and capabilities of expansion.  Decent quality and power are desirable.  Where should I start looking and what brand?

Thank you!

FB


Here's the problem.

I honestly don't know of any pre-packaged kits I would recommend.  Even some of the brand-name ones (Samsung, etc) sometimes come with weird cables/plugs, like DIN connectors and RJ-11 plugs.  It makes it a real PITA to change out the included cameras, which are inevitably POS's.  Most of what you're paying in those pre-packaged kits is the DVR, because the cameras are almost always as low-end as you can get.  

Even if you have an embedded DVR you like, your camera choice can differ GREATLY depending on your application.  Indoor vs outdoor, bullet vs dome, WDR vs not, B&W vs color, wide-angle vs long-lens, included-IR vs illuminator, overt vs covert, and so forth.  Even among analog cameras, there's a tremendous number of choices, which you'll need to tailor based on the view you want, the lighting conditions, the mounting location, power source, etc.  

There isn't a one-ring solution with CCTV systems... or if there is, I haven't found it yet.
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 5:11:03 PM EDT
[#32]



Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:



Originally Posted By Firebird69:

GrayMan,



I am sure you have been asked this but I could not find it in your list.  I am looking for a beginner DVR w/ cameras and cabling (complete setup) that has at least four cameras and capabilities of expansion.  Decent quality and power are desirable.  Where should I start looking and what brand?



Thank you!



FB




Here's the problem.



I honestly don't know of any pre-packaged kits I would recommend.  Even some of the brand-name ones (Samsung, etc) sometimes come with weird cables/plugs, like DIN connectors and RJ-11 plugs.  It makes it a real PITA to change out the included cameras, which are inevitably POS's.  Most of what you're paying in those pre-packaged kits is the DVR, because the cameras are almost always as low-end as you can get.  



Even if you have an embedded DVR you like, your camera choice can differ GREATLY depending on your application.  Indoor vs outdoor, bullet vs dome, WDR vs not, B&W vs color, wide-angle vs long-lens, included-IR vs illuminator, overt vs covert, and so forth.  Even among analog cameras, there's a tremendous number of choices, which you'll need to tailor based on the view you want, the lighting conditions, the mounting location, power source, etc.  



There isn't a one-ring solution with CCTV systems... or if there is, I haven't found it yet.


Okay  Maybe I should buy a few IR game cameras and just use them on people rather than deer  Seriously though.  Anyway I can piece a system together under $600 if I buy a DVR, two or three cameras (add more later when I have $$) and necessary cables?  Is there a "used" ehhem market?



 
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 6:53:45 PM EDT
[#33]
I have a Panasonic WV-CW484S,  CNB VBM-24Vf and 2 ACTI ACM-1231 cameras. I am hiring a neighbor to run the wires. He is doing it tomorrow. I purchased 2 sets of baluns to use with the analog cameras. The baluns have 2 power wires this works fine with the CNB but the Panasonic has 3 wires, 2 power and 1 ground.  
If I use Siamese cable there is no ground line. What have others done with the ground?

pic of the wiring for both cameras and the balun. Panasonic on the right.

Link Posted: 8/18/2010 7:03:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheGrayMan] [#34]
Originally Posted By ger42:
I have a Panasonic WV-CW484S,  CNB VBM-24Vf and 2 ACTI ACM-1231 cameras. I am hiring a neighbor to run the wires. He is doing it tomorrow. I purchased 2 sets of baluns to use with the analog cameras. The baluns have 2 power wires this works fine with the CNB but the Panasonic has 3 wires, 2 power and 1 ground.  
If I use Siamese cable there is no ground line. What have others done with the ground?

pic of the wiring for both cameras and the balun. Panasonic on the right.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k308/Ger42/House%20Outside/IMG_3056.jpg


The little tag on the power wire provides the key.

Two of the wires are used if it's 12VDC, and one of the other wires is used if it's 24VAC.  The tag tells you which ones... I can't remember off the top of my head.

ETA:  never mind... it's brown and blue that are the power wires, regardless of whether it's AC or DC... just make sure you have the polarity correct if you're using 12VDC.  The extra wire is a ground wire for the AC setup.
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 7:44:49 PM EDT
[#35]
In doing some searching around the internet, can I ask if you have heard good or bad about IC Realtime (http://www.icrealtime.com) or Mace Security Products (http://www.macepro.com) cameras?
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 8:00:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheGrayMan] [#36]
Originally Posted By WS6_Keith:
In doing some searching around the internet, can I ask if you have heard good or bad about IC Realtime (http://www.icrealtime.com) or Mace Security Products (http://www.macepro.com) cameras?


ICrealtime is a good company, and I've heard good things about their stuff (they're also the maker of a very cool license-plate camera:  Link)

Mace is a semi-big name in the security industry, but I don't know if they make their own stuff, or simply rebadge things they buy overseas.  Their stuff is functional from what I've heard.
Link Posted: 8/19/2010 6:09:55 PM EDT
[#37]
So what do you charge?
Link Posted: 8/19/2010 7:59:33 PM EDT
[#38]
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:
So what do you charge?


I don't... the information is free!

My schedule is so nuts that I wouldn't feel right charging somebody, simply because their project would perpetually get "worked in" between all my other stuff.  This stuff is strictly a hobby for me.
Link Posted: 8/20/2010 6:46:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ger42] [#39]
This hobby is getting expensive. I had a neighbor who does phone and camera systems do 6 cat5 drops on the exterior of my house. I have 2 Acti ACM-21231 cameras. 1 Panasonic WV-CW484S (plan to buy another) and a CNB VBM-24VF. I was going to use a card to pickup the analog signals but could not mount the full size card in my PC and could not drivers for a card someone gave me so I got a used AXIS 241Q used off Ebay. Also got an Axis T90A20 IR-LED. I don’t want to add all of it up I think I’d get sick if I did.  The saving grace for me is the wife wanted it.
Link Posted: 8/20/2010 9:01:11 PM EDT
[#40]
Originally Posted By ger42:
This hobby is getting expensive. I had a neighbor who does phone and camera systems do 6 cat5 drops on the exterior of my house. I have 2 Acti ACM-21231 cameras. 1 Panasonic WV-CW484S (plan to buy another) and a CNB VBM-24VF. I was going to use a card to pickup the analog signals but could not mount the full size card in my PC and could not drivers for a card someone gave me so I got a used AXIS 241Q used off Ebay. Also got an Axis T90A20 IR-LED. I don’t want to add all of it up I think I’d get sick if I did.  He saving grace for me is the wife wanted it.


Those axis camera servers are a nice option... I have a couple of those deployed.  It's a good way to transition your analog cameras into a networked system.
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 7:17:01 AM EDT
[#41]
One my ACTi 1231 camera's image is upside down. The other is okay. Any ideas on why?
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 9:13:35 AM EDT
[#42]
Originally Posted By ger42:
One my ACTi 1231 camera's image is upside down. The other is okay. Any ideas on why?


There is a "video flip" or "mirroring" function in that camera.  Depending on how you mount it, it can invert the image to give you a right-side-up picture... go to the "camera setup" tab, and click on the appropriate box for your current setup.  When you first log into that camera (with Internet Explorer), hit the "quit" button in the upper-left corner of your screen.  That will take you into the camera configuration options.  Click "Camera Setup" and you're there.

Like so:



Link Posted: 8/21/2010 6:04:40 PM EDT
[#43]
Thank you on the video flip. I wonder what idiot did that?  Wait a minute I'm the only one on the PCV so i must be the idiot.

Now for my latest problem Network settings

Comast is the network supplier I have the ethernet line from the comcast modem going into the input of an Apple Time Capsule which is a wireless router.  My Imac uses DHCP.
The PC is connected to a Trendnet
The Trendnet has an ethernet connection to the Apple time Capsule.
2 Acti ACM-1231 cameras are connected to the POE posts on the Trendnet.
The PC is running Windows XP professional
Luxriot is the dvr software.
I have the setting on the PC as fixed IP 192.168.0.200.
This works fine but no internet access.

I now have a used Axis 240Q. It's IP address from the factory is 192.168.0.090. To set it up it looks like I need internet access but with my PC network  setup I cannot get to the internet.
What am I missing??? I realize Internet education and experience. My question is can I set it up to see my cameras,  the Axis and get to the internet?



Link Posted: 8/21/2010 7:03:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Originally Posted By ger42:
Thank you on the video flip. I wonder what idiot did that?  Wait a minute I'm the only one on the PCV so i must be the idiot.

Now for my latest problem Network settings

Comast is the network supplier I have the ethernet line from the comcast modem going into the input of an Apple Time Capsule which is a wireless router.  My Imac uses DHCP.
The PC is connected to a Trendnet
The Trendnet has an ethernet connection to the Apple time Capsule.
2 Acti ACM-1231 cameras are connected to the POE posts on the Trendnet.
The PC is running Windows XP professional
Luxriot is the dvr software.
I have the setting on the PC as fixed IP 192.168.0.200.
This works fine but no internet access.

I now have a used Axis 240Q. It's IP address from the factory is 192.168.0.090. To set it up it looks like I need internet access but with my PC network  setup I cannot get to the internet.
What am I missing??? I realize Internet education and experience. My question is can I set it up to see my cameras,  the Axis and get to the internet?





What are the ip addresses of your Imac, and gateway (the lan side of your router)?
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 8:54:26 PM EDT
[#45]
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
What are the ip addresses of your Imac, and gateway (the lan side of your router)?


Any of this mean anything? This is on the Imac



Link Posted: 8/21/2010 9:19:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheGrayMan] [#46]
Originally Posted By ger42:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
What are the ip addresses of your Imac, and gateway (the lan side of your router)?


Any of this mean anything? This is on the Imac
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k308/Ger42/Picture6.png
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k308/Ger42/Picture8.png
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k308/Ger42/Picture7.png


Ah... this is easy to fix.  You have a routing problem.  Here is the issue:



A computer on a 192.168.0.x network cannot speak to a computer on a 10.0.1.x network without going through a router.  You have a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0, which means your computers are assuming the first three numbers of your IP addresses are the same, and that the addresses in your particular network "subnet" differ only by the last digit.  So your computer at 192.168.0.200 with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 is looking for other computers (and a gateway to the internet) with an IP address form of 192.168.0.x (where "x" varies from 1 to 255).  It can't talk to your 10.0.1.1 gateway without being on the same subnet.

Your Imac is using DHCP... so you don't have to change anything there... it'll automatically pick up an IP address in the appropriate subnet when you restart it, or disable/re-enable its network connection.  What you have to do is change the settings on your wireless router.  

Here's how to fix it.

Make your routers "LAN side" IP address (or "gateway" address) 192.168.0.1 with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0.  Set your DHCP server to give LAN IP leases (addresses) in the range of 192.168.0.100 to 192.168.0.120 or so.  Ensure that all your network devices (including PCs and cameras) know to use 192.168.0.1 as their gateway.  You can continue to have your router pick up its IP address from your internet provider as usual (probably DHCP, unless you have a static IP).

By way of explanation, a router is a device with two (or more) network cards, that connects multiple networks.  In your case, your existing router is doing exactly that... it's bridging your ISP's network (probably some variation of 70.x.x.x) with your home network (currently 10.0.1.x, and soon to be 192.168.0.x).  You COULD leave all of your IP addresses the same, and fix your problem by putting a router in between the 10.0.1.x Apple network and the 192.168.0.x PC/camera network... but that's overkill.  It's simply easier and simpler to have everything on the same subnet... and as long as your addresses are all in the format of 192.168.0.x, with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 and a gateway of 192.168.0.1, you're golden.  They'll all be able to talk to one another, and everything will work.


Link Posted: 8/22/2010 12:38:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheGrayMan] [#47]
You still online ger42?  I didn't totally jack up your internet access, did I?  

ETA:  if I did, just change everything back to what it was and log back in here.  Tell me what kind of errors you had, and I'll try to walk you through the fix.
Link Posted: 8/22/2010 8:47:54 PM EDT
[#48]
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
You still online ger42?  I didn't totally jack up your internet access, did I?  

ETA:  if I did, just change everything back to what it was and log back in here.  Tell me what kind of errors you had, and I'll try to walk you through the fix.


When I changed what you said the Imac would not connect to the internet. I went back to the original settings and I'm fine.
I think I need a Apple time capsule expert. I am going to try and contact the place I retired from and talk to the network administrator who is an Apple fan. I'll see if he has any ideas.
I have a 5:30 appointment with a da Vinci machine Thursday morning. Going to have my prostate out. If the skin infection I have has cleared up by then,  so this week is going to be a mad house. I may not get to it till I get back on my feet.

I do have 1 ACM-1321 running great. The other one is not up because the new line that was run Friday seems to have a problem. I ned to get my guy back. He also promised to hook up my Panasonic  WV-CW484S. He has a monitor so we can get it setup even if I don't have the Axis video server running.

Time for bed I need to get my beauty rest.

Thanks for your help.
Link Posted: 8/22/2010 8:55:42 PM EDT
[#49]
Originally Posted By ger42:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
You still online ger42?  I didn't totally jack up your internet access, did I?  

ETA:  if I did, just change everything back to what it was and log back in here.  Tell me what kind of errors you had, and I'll try to walk you through the fix.


When I changed what you said the Imac would not connect to the internet. I went back to the original settings and I'm fine.
I think I need a Apple time capsule expert. I am going to try and contact the place I retired from and talk to the network administrator who is an Apple fan. I'll see if he has any ideas.
I have a 5:30 appointment with a da Vinci machine Thursday morning. Going to have my prostate out. If the skin infection I have has cleared up by then,  so this week is going to be a mad house. I may not get to it till I get back on my feet.

I do have 1 ACM-1321 running great. The other one is not up because the new line that was run Friday seems to have a problem. I ned to get my guy back. He also promised to hook up my Panasonic  WV-CW484S. He has a monitor so we can get it setup even if I don't have the Axis video server running.

Time for bed I need to get my beauty rest.

Thanks for your help.


NP.  

Let me know if your network guy can't help you.  I don't do a lot of Apple, but I am a unix guy at heart, and that's the OS core of today's Apple stuff.  I'm always happy to have a crack at it.
Link Posted: 8/22/2010 9:25:11 PM EDT
[#50]
Wow.



i just read this whole thread (Ok, I skipped over some parts)





My store was burglarized this weekend.



I'm having a basic security system installed this week and having an electrician come put up some motion security lights...



...in addition to that I would like to have a couple cameras.



I think I have a pretty firm grasp after reading this thread on what I need, based on what I'm trying to record,

However, I'm lost on these cards



I'm only going to install 2, maybe 3 cameras...I'm OK w/ 15 fps or even 10 fps, D1 recorded resolution is a must and I can build PCs all day, but..

The prices are all over the place on these things and the support/software looks crummy, even on some the "bigger" brands like the GeoVision and Avermedia.





So, I think, for the price, I'll grab a couple CNB VBM-24VD's, I can build a nice pc and run the wires, power the cams, etc... but what card is going to work well w/o breaking the bank?





Also, as cool as it would be to watch my CCTV cams on my Droid, i don't NEED those functions; I'm really looking for reliability over features.
Thanks,
Speed

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