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Okay guys I’ll chime in here even though I’m a bit late. Just a little background on some of my past. I ran our community’s water system for several years and we used the granular HTH (calcium hypochlorite) at first and then 10% sodium hypochlorite later. I apologize if I’m repeating info from other posts.
When I read the OP I was spurred into finding out a little more about how the two forms of chlorine compare. Here’s a web page I found: http://www.maine.gov/dhhs/eng/water/Templates/Sections/Field%20Services/disinfectionequations.htm The formulas on that page allow you to figure out how much HTH equals 6% bleach. On the EPA site mentioned in the OP ( here ) it says: Add and dissolve one heaping teaspoon of high-test granular calcium hypochlorite (approximately ¼ ounce) for each two gallons of water, or 5 milliliters (approximately 7 grams) per 7.5 liters of water. The mixture will produce a stock chlorine solution of approximately 500 milligrams per liter. This is not equal in strength to 6% bleach. Using the formulas on the maine.gov site you can calculate that 6% bleach is about 60,000 ppm– 120 times stronger! (mg/l and ppm are the same – just a ratio) Using the same formulas you’ll find that 5lbs of 65% HTH is equal to 6 ½ gallons of bleach. This is why it only takes 8 drops (1/8 teaspoon) of bleach to disinfect one gallon of water as opposed to 2 ½ tablespoons (1 ¼ oz) of the ‘stock chlorine solution’. The ‘stock chlorine solution’ was not meant to equal bleach only to be a convenient strength to disinfect your water at a ratio of 1:100. balloonknot posted from another website: A better method of water purification would be using a chlorinating concentrate manufactured for spas and hot tubs. The best one contains Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione dihydrate . . . . 99%, and 1% inert ingredients, and is available from some pool and spa supply stores. I have recently also found this formulation at a local Home Depot center. Its advantages: -only 1/4 teaspoon is used to treat a 55 gallon drum of water. -the shelf life of a container of this concentrate is 15 to 25 years + (if kept dry and not stored hot) -you can buy it and forget about it. My experience with Clorox is that it is usually getting old and may be ineffective for treating water adequately when we need it. I’m not familiar with this stuff but it looks efficient using only ¼ teaspoon in 55 gallons of water, though it doesn’t say what ppm of chlorine that mix gives you. On the other hand using the formulas once again on the maine.gov site you will find that to treat 55 gallons of water with 65% HTH at 5ppm it also takes only ¼ teaspoon (.056 oz). They probably work just as well as each other. So bottom line is this. If you want a stable product to store long term for water disinfection the HTH pool shock is the way to go. 5 lbs will disinfect roughly 80,000 gallons. Just don’t expect it to last long using it to clean your clothes. 
gk |
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Quoted:
Okay guys I’ll chime in here even though I’m a bit late. Just a little background on some of my past. I ran our community’s water system for several years and we used the granular HTH (calcium hypochlorite) at first and then 10% sodium hypochlorite later. I apologize if I’m repeating info from other posts. When I read the OP I was spurred into finding out a little more about how the two forms of chlorine compare. Here’s a web page I found: http://www.maine.gov/dhhs/eng/water/Templates/Sections/Field%20Services/disinfectionequations.htm The formulas on that page allow you to figure out how much HTH equals 6% bleach. On the EPA site mentioned in the OP ( here ) it says: Add and dissolve one heaping teaspoon of high-test granular calcium hypochlorite (approximately ¼ ounce) for each two gallons of water, or 5 milliliters (approximately 7 grams) per 7.5 liters of water. The mixture will produce a stock chlorine solution of approximately 500 milligrams per liter. This is not equal in strength to 6% bleach. Using the formulas on the maine.gov site you can calculate that 6% bleach is about 60,000 ppm– 120 times stronger! (mg/l and ppm are the same – just a ratio) Using the same formulas you’ll find that 5lbs of 65% HTH is equal to 6 ½ gallons of bleach. This is why it only takes 8 drops (1/8 teaspoon) of bleach to disinfect one gallon of water as opposed to 2 ½ tablespoons (1 ¼ oz) of the ‘stock chlorine solution’. The ‘stock chlorine solution’ was not meant to equal bleach only to be a convenient strength to disinfect your water at a ratio of 1:100. balloonknot posted from another website: A better method of water purification would be using a chlorinating concentrate manufactured for spas and hot tubs. The best one contains Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione dihydrate . . . . 99%, and 1% inert ingredients, and is available from some pool and spa supply stores. I have recently also found this formulation at a local Home Depot center. Its advantages: -only 1/4 teaspoon is used to treat a 55 gallon drum of water. -the shelf life of a container of this concentrate is 15 to 25 years + (if kept dry and not stored hot) -you can buy it and forget about it. My experience with Clorox is that it is usually getting old and may be ineffective for treating water adequately when we need it. I’m not familiar with this stuff but it looks efficient using only ¼ teaspoon in 55 gallons of water, though it doesn’t say what ppm of chlorine that mix gives you. On the other hand using the formulas once again on the maine.gov site you will find that to treat 55 gallons of water with 65% HTH at 5ppm it also takes only ¼ teaspoon (.056 oz). They probably work just as well as each other. So bottom line is this. If you want a stable product to store long term for water disinfection the HTH pool shock is the way to go. 5 lbs will disinfect roughly 80,000 gallons. Just don’t expect it to last long using it to clean your clothes.
gk ""This is not equal in strength to 6% bleach. Using the formulas on the maine.gov site you can calculate that 6% bleach is about 60,000 ppm– 120 times stronger! (mg/l and ppm are the same – just a ratio) Using the same formulas you’ll find that 5lbs of 65% HTH is equal to 6 ½ gallons of bleach. "" I sure wish you would double check that again, I'm pretty confused now. Edit- OK, I think I understand... |
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Sorry if I was not clear. But yes, I meant to imply that according to the instructions on the EPA site the resulting solution is much weaker than standard household bleach but more than strong enough to disinfect your drinking water. I also meant to say that you could make a solution as strong as 6% bleach but from a 5 lb container of HTH you'd get only 6 1/2 gallons. It'd run out pretty quick if you used bleach regularly in your laundry.
gk |
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Quoted:
Sorry if I was not clear. But yes, I meant to imply that according to the instructions on the EPA site the resulting solution is much weaker than standard household bleach but more than strong enough to disinfect your drinking water. I also meant to say that you could make a solution as strong as 6% bleach but from a 5 lb container of HTH you'd get only 6 1/2 gallons. It'd run out pretty quick if you used bleach regularly in your laundry. gk By this reasoning we can deduce that even old bleach that is reduced in strength can also still be used to purify water, although in higher quantities. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Sorry if I was not clear. But yes, I meant to imply that according to the instructions on the EPA site the resulting solution is much weaker than standard household bleach but more than strong enough to disinfect your drinking water. I also meant to say that you could make a solution as strong as 6% bleach but from a 5 lb container of HTH you'd get only 6 1/2 gallons. It'd run out pretty quick if you used bleach regularly in your laundry. gk By this reasoning we can deduce that even old bleach that is reduced in strength can also still be used to purify water, although in higher quantities. Sounds like it, but you never know how far gone your old bleach is. This way you have a fresh batch at a known concentration, for a lot cheaper. Plus much easier to store long term. |
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Quoted: Walmart has the HTH calcium hypochlorite @ 52% which everyone should be able to find locally. ROMAD-556 can we get an easy to follow formula for those of us who can't get the 73% Leslie? Just use the second formula in the bottom half. Use .52 instead of .73 or .65 like the example. http://www.maine.gov/dhhs/eng/water/Templates/Sections/Field%20Services/disinfectionequations.htm Is 100 ppm the STANDARD require residual? |
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I am not having much luck finding the higher potency stuff but I keep looking...
I did find a guy that is somewhat local (about 60-miles) that has Blue Polly drumbs from a food plant for $20/each and I want to get at least two of them (if not four) but I am circling back to find a cheap option to prepare large amounts of water beyond the short term needs now and this looks like a great way to do it. |
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Found this info on the Nevada Division of Environmental Protection website (I'm there all the time for work) reguarding water treatment.
HOW TO DISINFECT DRINKING WATER
1. Boil water vigorously for 2 to 5 minutes, or 2. Disinfect water using common unscented liquid household bleach. Read the label for instructions or use the instructions below: A. Use 2 drops liquid bleach per quart of water. B. Mix thoroughly and allow to stand for 30 minutes before using. C. Water should have a slight chlorine odor-if not, add one more drop of liquid bleach. Note: For larger quantities of water, see the chart below: Using common unscented liquid bleach (5% solution) DESIRED PPM 1 5 50,000 gallons of water 1 gallon of bleach 5 gallon of bleach 25,000 gallons of water 2 quarts of bleach 2.5 gallons of bleach 10,000 gallons of water 25.6 ounces of bleach 1 gallon of bleach 5,000 gallons of water 12.8 ounces of bleach 2 quarts of bleach 2,000 gallons of water 5.12 ounces of bleach 25.6 ounces of bleach 1,000 gallons of water 2.56 ounces of bleach 2.8 ounces of bleach 500 gallons of water 1.26 ounces of bleach 6.4 ounces of bleach 200 gallons of water .512 ounces of bleach 2.55 ounces of bleach 100 gallons of water .256 ounces of bleach 1.25 ounces of bleach 50 gallons of water .13 ounces of bleach .64 ounces of bleach 25 gallons of water .064 ounces of bleach .32 ounces of bleach 10 gallons of water .026 ounces of bleach .064 ounces of bleach 128 ounces = 1 gallon (5%=unscented, liquid household bleach) 2.5 ounces bleach (5%) / 1000 gallons water=1PPM 1 gallon of bleach (5%)/ 1000 gallons of water =50PPM 0.20 ounces powdered chlorine (65-70% available)/1000 gallons of water=1PPM 9.6 ounces of powdered chlorine (65-75% available)/1000 gallons of water+50PPM link to pdf http://ndep.nv.gov/bsdw/docs/disinfect_drinking_water.pdf |
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Quoted:
Bleach will not kill cryptosporidium Not easily, that's true. BUT..., the Crypto organism is so large that window screen will almost filter it out. 
Well, not actually, but it's big and most any filter will make short work of it, so use one in conjunction with your bleach. Or use RO and forget about the complexities. |
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So somewhere around 2 tsp of the 52% HTH should give you the two gallons of bleach mixture that the 65-73% will? The problem with the formula on the Maine page is that it deals in such large quantities. Well, it's really just a matter of a little math. Divide 52 into 65 and you get 1.25. That tells you you need 1.25 X 'one heaping teaspoon' to get the same results. I'd call it an extra heaping teaspoon. These really are not critical measurements. Kinda like cooking - if you're pretty close you're gtg. gk |
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bump / tag / scribe... ETA: i decided to go this route over the admitidlly bad-assed sawyer filter via ed sr. for a couple reasons... *the filter is awesome, but the leslies pool shock is a lot cheaper, at least in smaller increments/ short term($4 for up to 10,000 gallons). * the filter is a one shot deal, i can cache the pool shock in several redundant locations in case of fire or theft my filter is gone, my pool shock is down a couple packets but more still waiting elsewhere *regular house hold bleach looses it's potency and ability to purify, i could potentially barter "fresh and new" bleach in a long term/t.e.o.t.w.a.w.k.i. event *long term supply bleach + purified water has more uses than just purified water K. I'm planning on doing both. Pre-filter water with cloth (to keep my saywer form clogging up as fast), run it through the sawyer, then add bleach. Thanks for this thread though. Why poison yourself w/ bleach when you are runnign it through the sawyer??? Not the the bleach is that bad for you, but over time... Pehaps you are not using the super low flow filter that filters out all viruses. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
bump / tag / scribe... ETA: i decided to go this route over the admitidlly bad-assed sawyer filter via ed sr. for a couple reasons... *the filter is awesome, but the leslies pool shock is a lot cheaper, at least in smaller increments/ short term($4 for up to 10,000 gallons). * the filter is a one shot deal, i can cache the pool shock in several redundant locations in case of fire or theft my filter is gone, my pool shock is down a couple packets but more still waiting elsewhere *regular house hold bleach looses it's potency and ability to purify, i could potentially barter "fresh and new" bleach in a long term/t.e.o.t.w.a.w.k.i. event *long term supply bleach + purified water has more uses than just purified water K. Why poison yourself w/ bleach when you are runnign it through the sawyer??? Not the the bleach is that bad for you over time... Pehaps you are not using the super low flow filter that filters out all viruses. I'm planning on doing both. Pre-filter water with cloth (to keep my saywer form clogging up as fast), run it through the sawyer, then add bleach. Thanks for this thread though. If you're using the .001 or .002 you don't need to add bleach at all. |
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I love this info, but it seems odd to me. So none of this stuff is bad for you in these doses? I guess not. Is this what water treatment facilities do?. Note that if you prepare ahead of time you can put away water that you would not need to add bleach to. At this point I keep 30-gal in six 5-gal Scepter style cans (LCI), plus two cases of 16-oz bottles of water that we rotate. I plan to add a 55-gal plastic drum as well but I need to make room for it in the basement where it will be easy for me to drain it so I can keep the water in there fresh. Given that we are on city water, I sanitize my containers with bleach and then rinse them and fill. I do not add bleach to the water and it should be good to go as long as we keep it closed up. This water would cover our basic drinking needs for a couple weeks or more before we would need to worry about bleaching untrust worthy water. When we get to that point, the risks of drinking un-treated water is far greater then the risks from drinking clorinated water. City water treatent plants have a variety of tools they can use and clorination is only one part of a process that we should do in a survival situation as well. See: http://www.excelwater.com/eng/b2c/about_8.php http://www.valleywater.org/water/Water_Quality/How_We_Clean_Your_Water/The_treatment_process.shtm Also see these: http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw/faq/emerg.html http://www.searo.who.int/LinkFiles/List_of_Guidelines_for_Health_Emergency_Emergency_treatment_of_drinking_water.pdf http://msucares.com/pubs/publications/p2243.html I have still been looking for this super strength clorine pool shock and I have still not found any locally. I have looked online but I have yet to find it online where they show the ingrediants so that I was sure that there were not other stuff added in there. So, my fix for now is to tell my wife to buy smaller bottles of bleach for laundry and we replace the bottles on a regular basis to ensure we will have liquid bleach. I really want to get a bunch of this high potency stuff but I need to find a real pool supply store I guess to find it. Just remember, disinfection is just one step of several that should be taken depending on your abuility to do the other steps and the source of the water you are trying to treat. The BEST SOLUTION, is to try to have the water you need before you need it and this the subject of this thread is for long term survival past that supply or to help supply the sheep that failed to prepare before hand. |
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Quoted:
Help a brother out. How much 63% HTH to disinfect 1 gallon of water? I know this gets confusing, what with all the different measurements (fluid ounces, dry weight ounces, tablespoons, teaspoons, PPM's, mg/l, etc. 
But anyway, the reason the EPA site has you make up a 500 PPM stock solution for disinfecting your subsquent drinking water is that it's easier to measure out one teaspoon as opposed to near impossible to measure out the very small quantity of HTH needed to get one single gallon to 5 PPM. You then can measure out 2 1/2 tablespoons of the stock solution to put into 1 gallon. Pretty easy. On the other hand, since it takes one heaping teaspoon of HTH to make 2 gallons of 500 PPM solution, you'd use 1/100th of a teaspoon to bring 2 gallons to only 5 PPM. Using the formula on the main.gov site the actual amount of HTH you'd weigh out to disinfect one single gallon would be .001 ounces. You'll need a pretty good scale to do that. In my earlier post I showed that you'd only need about 1/4+ teaspoon (.056 oz) to bring 55 gallons up to about 5 PPM. Pretty concentrated stuff! Hope this helps. gk ETA to change (correct) 1 1/4 tablespoons to 2 1/2 tablespoons - I told you it gets confusing
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Help a brother out. How much 63% HTH to disinfect 1 gallon of water? I know this gets confusing, what with all the different measurements (fluid ounces, dry weight ounces, tablespoons, teaspoons, PPM's, mg/l, etc.
But anyway, the reason the EPA site has you make up a 500 PPM stock solution for disinfecting your subsquent drinking water is that it's easier to measure out one teaspoon as opposed to near impossible to measure out the very small quantity of HTH needed to get one single gallon to 5 PPM. You then can measure out 1 1/4 tablespoons of the stock solution to put into 1 gallon. Pretty easy. On the other hand, since it takes one heaping teaspoon of HTH to make 2 gallons of 500 PPM solution, you'd use 1/100th of a teaspoon to bring 2 gallons to only 5 PPM. Using the formula on the main.gov site the actual amount of HTH you'd weigh out to disinfect one single gallon would be .001 ounces. You'll need a pretty good scale to do that. In my earlier post I showed that you'd only need about 1/4+ teaspoon (.056 oz) to bring 55 gallons up to about 5 PPM. Pretty concentrated stuff! Hope this helps. gk That does help, appreciate it. I was thinking we might be able to say "X number of grains" to a gallon for disinfecting small quantities. |
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That does help, appreciate it. I was thinking we might be able to say "X number of grains" to a gallon for disinfecting small quantities. Not sure you were thinking of X number of kernels or the weight measure of grains but an idea that I just had from your reply is this: If a person had an electronic reloading scale he could measure out the exact amount of HTH it would take for one gallon and then take some pieces of a mylar bag and iron up a bunch of small packets. Doing the math you'd need .4375 grains of HTH for each packet. 7,000 grains/lb = 437.5 grains/oz, multiply by .001 = .4375 grains to disinfect one gallon @ 5 PPM. Rounding that down to .4 grains would still be giving you 4.5 PPM in one gallon. You could then have a bunch of premeasured one gallon water purifcation packets to keep in you BOB. Might just do that.
gk ETA - Update: Well before you all go out and try this at home I'll tell you what I found. I guess I merely confirmed what I posted earlier. That is that the amount of HTH needed for only one gallon is very small. Even with my Lyman 1200 DPS scale it is difficult (but not impossible) to measure out .4 grains. For some reason the scale won't begin to read anything until about .4 is placed in the pan. Then getting that tiny amount into a small packet becomes a pita. If a person liked the idea enough he could get it done but might not want to ever do it again. Probably small packets with enough to do 5 gallons would be easier. I still like the concept of having small premeasured packets. Give it a try. |
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Ok I finally went and bought a bag of the 73% version at Leslies. I am going to print an instruction sheet and bag the whole thing with a small funnel and 2 measuring spoons into a gallon ziploc. Just want to be sure the instructions in the OP are the correct ones that have been hashed out in this thread. ///// Step 1: Make bleach 1 heaping teaspoon of pool shock makes 2 gallons of bleach - place 2 gallons of water into a 5 gallon bucket - place 1 heaping *teaspoon* of pool shock into bucket - stir into solution thoroughly - place funnel into empty 1 gallon bleach container - pour 1 gallon out of bucket into bleach container - repeat for other bleach container Now you have made two gallons of normal household bleach that you can use for anything you would normally use bleach for like cleaning, disinfecting etc. Step 2: Use bleach to disinfect water - 2.5 *tablespoons* of bleach solution goes into 1 gallon of water for disinfecting - stir into solution and wait 30 mins - sample taste the disinfected water, if it tastes too strong of chlorine then aerate the water by simply pouring 1 gallon from one container into another a couple times and this will help remove the objectionable taste, if any. ///// Any other updates this these instructions? |
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Sheepdog,
You got the formula correct and are on the right path to disinfect water but just a reminder, as I posted back in June on page 5 the quote from the epa website is as follows: "Add and dissolve one heaping teaspoon of high-test granular calcium hypochlorite (approximately ¼ ounce) for each two gallons of water, or 5 milliliters (approximately 7 grams) per 7.5 liters of water. The mixture will produce a stock chlorine solution of approximately 500 milligrams per liter." The OP wrote: "Now you have made two gallons of normal household bleach that you can use for anything you would normally use bleach for like cleaning, disinfecting etc." Not correct! He may or may not have meant to say that, idk, but 6% household bleach is about 60,000 mg/l (120 times more concentrated than 500 mg/l). That's why it only takes about eight drops to disinfect one gallon of water with it - absolutely not 2 1/2 tablespoons. Think of it this way: if you normally put 1/4 cup of bleach into a load of laundry you'd have to put 30 cups of the stock chlorine solution to equal the chlorine in that 1/4 cup. gk |
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The following three types of pool "shock"/treatment chemical are available in bulk at my local Sam's club:
Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione hydrated 99% Available chlorine 55.5% 50#granules $105.48 Same as above "quick dissolve shock" Available chlorine 55.5% 24x 1#pouches. $57.34 3" chlorinating tablets Trichloro-s-triazinetrione 99% Available chlorine 90% 40# $91.87 I would think that maybe one of the above would be a good choice? Anyone know??? They don't say "calcium hypochlorite", and I'm no chemist, so I figured I'd better ask. 
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OK, had a little time to dig....
This: Water purification tabs... contains 2.5% "Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione" and the rest is "inert" If so, then 50 pounds of this: Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione hydrated 99% Available chlorine 55.5% 50#granules $105.48 from Sam's club should be safe (if mixed correctly) to purify a metric crapload of water, right? 
ETA: It was also mentioned here: http://www.endtimesreport.com/CHLORINATING_CONCENTRATE.html |
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