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Whooa!!!! Safety update for dummies like me (with video at the link)...
Accidentally mixing calcium hypochlorite with either Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione, or Trichloro-s-triazinetrione in the presence of any water can result in an explosion... http://www.chemaxx.com/pool_chemical_explosion.htm While I dig explosions, I think an unexpected one that burned your face and eyes (possibly permenantly blinding you...) would hella suck! ETA: Page 7 ownage, and I wonder if McGuyver ever tried this one  ???
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Quoted: http://ldsprep.org/WATER.docOK, had a little time to dig.... This:http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/campingsurvival_2092_17655966 Water purification tabs... contains 2.5% "Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione" and the rest is "inert" If so, then 50 pounds of this: Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione hydrated 99% Available chlorine 55.5% 50#granules $105.48 from Sam's club should be safe (if mixed correctly) to purify a metric crapload of water, right?  ETA: It was also mentioned here: http://www.endtimesreport.com/CHLORINATING_CONCENTRATE.html |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
http://ldsprep.org/WATER.doc
OK, had a little time to dig.... This:http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/campingsurvival_2092_17655966 Water purification tabs... contains 2.5% "Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione" and the rest is "inert" If so, then 50 pounds of this: Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione hydrated 99% Available chlorine 55.5% 50#granules $105.48 from Sam's club should be safe (if mixed correctly) to purify a metric crapload of water, right?
ETA: It was also mentioned here: http://www.endtimesreport.com/CHLORINATING_CONCENTRATE.html Awesome!!! Thanks for the link! So at 2# per 160,000 gallons.... A 50# bucket from Sam's club would purify up to 4,000,000 gallons of water!!! I'd definitely define that as a metric crap ton of water!!! Off to Sam's I'll go!!! Thanks again! |
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OK this may have been covered but I didnt see it.
With bleach the universal "accepted" concentration for disinfecting water is 8 drops per gallon. Everything I have found for the pool shock "bleach" mixutre is 1 part of the shock soultion to 100parts water. Anyone know what that works out to in oz, cups etc, something easy to remember? I am a retard when it comes to math. This would be for using the Leslie 73% pool shock. Anyone? J- |
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Those monolithic filters that the Texas Baptist Men were selling are also now sold by CTD. Still cheaper right from the source. |
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Those monolithic filters that the Texas Baptist Men were selling are also now sold by CTD. Still cheaper right from the source. yep I got one of those, but it does not filter out viruses, hence my thoughts about using bleach/pool shock added to the filtered water. J- |
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Quoted:
OK this may have been covered but I didnt see it. With bleach the universal "accepted" concentration for disinfecting water is 8 drops per gallon. Everything I have found for the pool shock "bleach" mixutre is 1 part of the shock soultion to 100parts water. Anyone know what that works out to in oz, cups etc, something easy to remember? I am a retard when it comes to math. This would be for using the Leslie 73% pool shock. Anyone? J- J- Refresher course: Back on page 5 in this thread in my first post you'll find this paragraph: "This is not equal in strength to 6% bleach. Using the formulas on the maine.gov site you can calculate that 6% bleach is about 60,000 ppm– 120 times stronger! (mg/l and ppm are the same – just a ratio) Using the same formulas you’ll find that 5lbs of 65% HTH is equal to 6 ½ gallons of bleach. This is why it only takes 8 drops (1/8 teaspoon) of bleach to disinfect one gallon of water as opposed to 2 ½ tablespoons (1 ¼ oz) of the ‘stock chlorine solution’ The ‘stock chlorine solution’ was not meant to equal bleach only to be a convenient strength to disinfect your water at a ratio of 1:100." Hope this helps. gk |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
OK this may have been covered but I didnt see it. With bleach the universal "accepted" concentration for disinfecting water is 8 drops per gallon. Everything I have found for the pool shock "bleach" mixutre is 1 part of the shock soultion to 100parts water. Anyone know what that works out to in oz, cups etc, something easy to remember? I am a retard when it comes to math. This would be for using the Leslie 73% pool shock. Anyone? J- J- Refresher course: Back on page 5 in this thread in my first post you'll find this paragraph: "This is not equal in strength to 6% bleach. Using the formulas on the maine.gov site you can calculate that 6% bleach is about 60,000 ppm– 120 times stronger! (mg/l and ppm are the same – just a ratio) Using the same formulas you’ll find that 5lbs of 65% HTH is equal to 6 ½ gallons of bleach. This is why it only takes 8 drops (1/8 teaspoon) of bleach to disinfect one gallon of water as opposed to 2 ½ tablespoons (1 ¼ oz) of the ‘stock chlorine solution’ The ‘stock chlorine solution’ was not meant to equal bleach only to be a convenient strength to disinfect your water at a ratio of 1:100." Hope this helps. gk awesome that is what I was looking for. thanks J- |
| I'm thinking that this is acceptable, correct? http://www.amazon.com/Swim-Chlorine-Pool-Shock-bags/dp/B002WKQ3IE/ |
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I'm thinking that this is acceptable, correct? http://www.amazon.com/Swim-Chlorine-Pool-Shock-bags/dp/B002WKQ3IE/ Wow! What a price. As far as I can see, that's exactly what you're looking for. I read and reread the info on Amazon to make sure. Just so long as the only active ingredient is Calcium Hypochlorite you're GTG. I bought a 5 lb jug locally for about $25 so you've found it for around half of that. Looks like you can get the 73% as well for quite a bit more but the 68% is the better buy. About all I'd do is find something like a small plastic bucket with a good gasket in the lid to store the packets in. Good find. gk |
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Also, search "uv water" [without the quotes], on eBay, to find 100's of water purification systems in many price ranges.
The Texas Baptist Men have on their website, pictures of a fairly complex, well thought out, water purification system they set up in different parts of the world. Scroll down to the one in a suitcase. It is a more elaborate and higher capacity than the one I've described in a topic here a year or so ago. It includes UVC 'purification' too. http://texasbaptistmen.org/dnn/Ministries/WaterPurificationMinistry/Products/tabid/484/Default.aspx Click on "Water Purification Downloads" for details of their system. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm thinking that this is acceptable, correct? http://www.amazon.com/Swim-Chlorine-Pool-Shock-bags/dp/B002WKQ3IE/ Wow! What a price. As far as I can see, that's exactly what you're looking for. I read and reread the info on Amazon to make sure. Just so long as the only active ingredient is Calcium Hypochlorite you're GTG. I bought a 5 lb jug locally for about $25 so you've found it for around half of that. Looks like you can get the 73% as well for quite a bit more but the 68% is the better buy. About all I'd do is find something like a small plastic bucket with a good gasket in the lid to store the packets in. Good find. gk I doublechecked the ingredients and it looked correct... like you said it's 5% less Calcium Hypochlorite but for the price I can just adjust the formula slightly. Provided they're small enough, I'll just put each 1lb packet in it's own freezer ziplock bag and repack them back in whatever box they come in... maybe even throw in some desiccant. I'd think that would do the trick... |
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Here's a great price w/ free shipping for RO systems on eBay. Uses standard components.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Aqua-Reef-RO-DI-Reverse-Osmosis-Water-Filtration-System_W0QQitemZ380219202449QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5886d49b91 |
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Just bought 10- 1 lb plastic bags of the stuff. Next step is a couple of food-grade buckets and a couple of gamma lids, along with the Millenium filter. Will store laminated instructions, along with appropriate measuring spoons within buckets.
Many thanks for the idea. You may have saved some lives in the future. Well done. |
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Quoted:
INTERESTING TIDBIT OF INFO: 1 bag (16 ounces) of 52% pool shock + 1 gallon of water = standard 6% bleach solution "HTH SUPER Shock 'n Swim" 52% pool shock is commonly sold at Wal-Mart. Your figures seem to very much contradict the OP. While concentrations vary from your example, and those used in the OP, there is a VAST discrepancy, if I'm reading all this correctly. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
INTERESTING TIDBIT OF INFO: 1 bag (16 ounces) of 52% pool shock + 1 gallon of water = standard 6% bleach solution "HTH SUPER Shock 'n Swim" 52% pool shock is commonly sold at Wal-Mart. Your figures seem to very much contradict the OP. While concentrations vary from your example, and those used in the OP, there is a VAST discrepancy, if I'm reading all this correctly. Please check my math: 52% pool shock is only 71.2% as concentrated as 73% pool shock - which means that 1 teaspoon of 53% pool shock will only produce 1.425 gallons of 0.05% dilute bleach - which means that 0.702 teaspoons of 53% shock produces 1 gallon. 6% Clorox-strength bleach is 120 times as concentrated as our 0.05% dilute solution - which means that we would need 120 x 0.702 = 84.23 teaspoons of 53% pool shock to produce 1 gallon of 6% bleach. There are 48 teaspoons in a cup (8 ounces), or 6 teaspoons per ounce. 84.23 teaspoons divided by 6 teaspoons per ounce = 14 ounces. Thus, adding a full 16 oz bag of 52% pool shock to 1 gallon of water produces a concentration slightly over 6%. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: INTERESTING TIDBIT OF INFO: 1 bag (16 ounces) of 52% pool shock + 1 gallon of water = standard 6% bleach solution "HTH SUPER Shock 'n Swim" 52% pool shock is commonly sold at Wal-Mart. Your figures seem to very much contradict the OP. While concentrations vary from your example, and those used in the OP, there is a VAST discrepancy, if I'm reading all this correctly. Please check my math: 52% pool shock is only 71.2% as concentrated as 73% pool shock - which means that 1 teaspoon of 53% pool shock will only produce 1.425 gallons of 0.05% dilute bleach - which means that 0.702 teaspoons of 53% shock produces 1 gallon. 6% Clorox-strength bleach is 120 times as concentrated as our 0.05% dilute solution - which means that we would need 120 x 0.702 = 84.23 teaspoons of 53% pool shock to produce 1 gallon of 6% bleach. There are 48 teaspoons in a cup (8 ounces), or 6 teaspoons per ounce. 84.23 teaspoons divided by 6 teaspoons per ounce = 14 ounces. Thus, adding a full 16 oz bag of 52% pool shock to 1 gallon of water produces a concentration slightly over 6%. So your formula uses the entire bag of pool shock to make chlorox strength bleach, which we would dilute back down by using 8 drops per gallon.Right? Takes up less space, but since bleach expires with exposure to oxygen, wouldn't it be better to keep it in powder form until needed? |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
INTERESTING TIDBIT OF INFO: 1 bag (16 ounces) of 52% pool shock + 1 gallon of water = standard 6% bleach solution "HTH SUPER Shock 'n Swim" 52% pool shock is commonly sold at Wal-Mart. Your figures seem to very much contradict the OP. While concentrations vary from your example, and those used in the OP, there is a VAST discrepancy, if I'm reading all this correctly. Please check my math: 52% pool shock is only 71.2% as concentrated as 73% pool shock - which means that 1 teaspoon of 53% pool shock will only produce 1.425 gallons of 0.05% dilute bleach - which means that 0.702 teaspoons of 53% shock produces 1 gallon. 6% Clorox-strength bleach is 120 times as concentrated as our 0.05% dilute solution - which means that we would need 120 x 0.702 = 84.23 teaspoons of 53% pool shock to produce 1 gallon of 6% bleach. There are 48 teaspoons in a cup (8 ounces), or 6 teaspoons per ounce. 84.23 teaspoons divided by 6 teaspoons per ounce = 14 ounces. Thus, adding a full 16 oz bag of 52% pool shock to 1 gallon of water produces a concentration slightly over 6%. OK, looks like your figures are correct, and I misunderstood your post. I think I confused tha amount of bleach a given amount of pool shock would create vs. the amount of water the same quantity of bleach would treat. |
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Quoted:
So your formula uses the entire bag of pool shock to make chlorox strength bleach, which we would dilute back down by using 8 drops per gallon.Right? Takes up less space, but since bleach expires with exposure to oxygen, wouldn't it be better to keep it in powder form until needed? Absolutely correct. Use the least amount for the job at hand and keep your powdered HTL in storage. If the shtf I wouldn't be concerned about making full strength bleach and I sure wouldn't worry about how white I can get my underwear (not that I have white underwear mind you).
gk |
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Quoted:
So your formula uses the entire bag of pool shock to make chlorox strength bleach, which we would dilute back down by using 8 drops per gallon. You could dilute it back down, if purifying water was all you were interested in. However, for disinfecting surfaces, eating utensils, medical/dental/veterinary tools, etc., there are times when a concentration greater than 0.05% is desirable. (Remember the nursing home in "One Second After?  )
Also, most folks are accustomed to working with 6% bleach, so it's a convenient starting point for further dilution. Then, there's the obvious price comparison: It turns out that a pound of 52 percent pool shock is quite a bit more expensive than a gallon of 6% bleach. So, in situations where you'll be using it within the next several months, 6% bleach is more cost-effective. |
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The whole point of getting powdered HTH is for it's long term storage compatability. Price really isn't the issue in this case. No doubt liquid bleach is easier to use and cheaper but it is unstable and does lose it's concentration after a period of time. However, HTH is worse than liquid bleach for it's instability once mixed and it will lose it's concentration much faster than regular bleach. That's why the recomendation above to use what you need when you need it and keep it in it's dry form otherwise. Mixing it to a 6% solution and then diluting it back down is just chasing your tail. You'll be wasting your stores of HTH. Also, you don't need extremely high concentrations of bleach to disinfect items as you suggest. Dosing relatively clear water with 5 ppm is usually good to make it safe to drink with 30 min or so of contact time. If I were to be disifecting surfaces, utensils, etc sure I'd probably make a little stronger solution but it's also about contact time not just the strength of the solution. There's nothing wrong with keeping liquid bleach around now to do what you usually do but the powdered HTH should be a part of your long term stores. Hope this is helpful.
gk |
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Quoted:
... Hope this is helpful. No, not particularly... 
We're all aware of the advantages and disadvantages of pool shock and Clorox - and don't really need a recap. Also, you don't need extremely high concentrations of bleach to disinfect items as you suggest.
I suggested that stronger than 0.05% might be desirable for some uses - which is exactly what you admitted: If I were to be disifecting surfaces, utensils, etc sure I'd probably make a little stronger solution
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why not just go over to someones house that has a well?
have a well drilled? or know the locations of artesian wells? 
buy reverse osmosis filters? heres a moble one, 90 gallons a day, change filters every 6 months http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/ro-counter-detail.htm I woulden't drink chlorine if i could avoid it. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
... Hope this is helpful. No, not particularly...
We're all aware of the advantages and disadvantages of pool shock and Clorox - and don't really need a recap. Also, you don't need extremely high concentrations of bleach to disinfect items as you suggest.
I suggested that stronger than 0.05% might be desirable for some uses - which is exactly what you admitted: If I were to be disifecting surfaces, utensils, etc sure I'd probably make a little stronger solution
Skibane, Maybe you should reread my post. I was mainly responding to your poor suggestion of mixing up the HTH to 6% and then diluting it back down. Bad idea. I don't believe anybody had suggested that before so it didn't seem like much of a recap. Hope this is helpful. (after all that's all we're trying to do is be helpful to others) gk |
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Quoted: why not just go over to someones house that has a well? have a well drilled? or know the locations of artesian wells? buy reverse osmosis filters? heres a moble one, 90 gallons a day, change filters every 6 months http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/ro-counter-detail.htm I woulden't drink chlorine if i could avoid it. I dont think anyone wants to drink chlorinated water, but if SHTF, you may not have a reliable clean source of water like a well. |
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Quoted: Why not just go to Wal-Mart or Piggly Wiggly and pick up some bottled water? why not just go over to someones house that has a well? have a well drilled? or know the locations of artesian wells? buy reverse osmosis filters? heres a moble one, 90 gallons a day, change filters every 6 months http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/ro-counter-detail.htm I woulden't drink chlorine if i could avoid it.  |
| Is the solution you make the same strength as "Clorox" type store bought bleach? The Clorox site says to use 1/2 teaspoon of their fresh bleach per five gallons of suspect clear water. Double the dosage for cloudy water. The directions from this thread says to use 3.5 tablespoons per gallon. 10.5 teaspoons equal 3.5 tablespoons. That's 26.25 teaspoons of this solution to treat the same five gallons. Could someone please clarify this? |
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Quoted:
I'm a bit confused. Is the solution you make the same strength as "Clorox" type store bought bleach? The Clorox site says to use 1/2 teaspoon of their fresh bleach per five gallons of suspect clear water. Double the dosage for cloudy water. The directions from this thread says to use 3.5 tablespoons per gallon. 10.5 teaspoons equal 3.5 tablespoons. That's 26.25 teaspoons of this solution to treat the same five gallons. Could someone please clarify this? Pretty sure the mix specified here is ALOT weaker than bleach you buy at the store. |
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Does anyone have more accurate measurements besides a heaping teaspoon?
I don't want to have to make 2 gallons of bleach at a time. I also found 78% calcium hypochlorite at my local pool supply. I would like to know how much calcium hypochlorite for a quart or larger but not more than a gallon of bleach using 78%. |
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7point62,
Go to page 6 on this thread and read my posts. In short it takes .001 ounces of calcium hypochlorite (.4375 grains on a reloading scale) to dose one gallon to 5ppm. It's hard to measure that amount and for one quart (1/10th of a grain) it gets even harder. Difficult but not impossible. This is why the epa uses the formulas already discussed. Simple to measure with what most people have available. gk |
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That is it. Thanks. |
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Here's what we use...
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=577038 |
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Is this adequate for de-salinization? Forgive the spelling, it's a whisky kinda day. |
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Is this adequate for de-salinization? Forgive the spelling, it's a whisky kinda day. No if you mean in the sense of sea water. Desalinization requires a different RO membrane and a rather high pressure differential across the membrane. Seawater RO systems are available at marine supply outfits but they are wallet busters. Also, common household RO membranes don't hold up well with higher chlorine concentrations, like water found in a swimming pool. IIRC the cellulose acetate membrane is more robust than the 'thin film' membrane, but it might be the other way. Fortunately I don't have a swimming pool...
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