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Quoted: Quoted: I showed my bro-n-law this post. I kinda trust his insight because he an analytical chemist by trade. Anyway his main problem with the above idea is the "other 25%" since its not regulated there is no telling what kind of heavy metals, or other nasty chemicals that are designed to kill things in there. Any other input on this? Well I was at Walmart looking at all the different pool chemicals. I too wondered about if it is only 73% what about the other 27%. Does it effect drinking water? |
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Perhaps with this it would be a good idea to have vials of power pre-measured to treat, say 5 gallons of water. This would take some calculation and perhaps a balance (which can be had on ebay for cheap) but it would be convenient to have a couple vials in your BOB that would treat your .mil water can full of water from a stream.
Just my .02 
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bump / tag / scribe... ETA: i decided to go this route over the admitidlly bad-assed sawyer filter via ed sr. for a couple reasons... *the filter is awesome, but the leslies pool shock is a lot cheaper, at least in smaller increments/ short term($4 for up to 10,000 gallons). * the filter is a one shot deal, i can cache the pool shock in several redundant locations in case of fire or theft my filter is gone, my pool shock is down a couple packets but more still waiting elsewhere *regular house hold bleach looses it's potency and ability to purify, i could potentially barter "fresh and new" bleach in a long term/t.e.o.t.w.a.w.k.i. event *long term supply bleach + purified water has more uses than just purified water K. I'm planning on doing both. Pre-filter water with cloth (to keep my saywer form clogging up as fast), run it through the sawyer, then add bleach. Thanks for this thread though. |
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We purify a ton of water [drinking some now] with a cheap reverse osmosis system off eBay or one of the box stores. Does RO really "purify"? I thought it filters, but not necessarily purifies? I have a RO system and it makes great water, but I've seen warnings about purification somewhere. |
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RO does not remove everything. It will take most of the bacteria and crap out, the big stuff, but it will not take much of the dissolved stuff out. It maybe reduces the conductivity by a factor of 2 or 3. Doesn't take the dissolved stuff out???? I thought that was the main advantage of RO. Would you care to site someplace that backs up your assertion? 
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We purify a ton of water [drinking some now] with a cheap reverse osmosis system off eBay or one of the box stores. Does RO really "purify"? I thought it filters, but not necessarily purifies? I have a RO system and it makes great water, but I've seen warnings about purification somewhere. You're right. "Purify" is a very maligned word and I often put in QUOTES for that very reason. |
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RO does not remove everything. It will take most of the bacteria and crap out, the big stuff, but it will not take much of the dissolved stuff out. It maybe reduces the conductivity by a factor of 2 or 3. Doesn't take the dissolved stuff out???? I thought that was the main advantage of RO. Would you care to site someplace that backs up your assertion?
+1 RO systems were designed to remove pretty much everything. This does however depend upon the RO system but a decent system will remove 100% all organic material and a high percentage of dissolved solutes such as salt, calcium, chemicals etc. Purify is indeed a sticky term, to purify brings the image of creating pure H2O but RO systems work in a term of percentage of removal. RO systems are excellent at being the jack of all trades, chemical and biological removal. Chemical removal is a much more difficult task using a RO membrane but combining a RO system with an acitvated carbon filter, like what many RO systems do, highly imporves the effectiveness of the filter. |
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RO does not remove everything. It will take most of the bacteria and crap out, the big stuff, but it will not take much of the dissolved stuff out. It maybe reduces the conductivity by a factor of 2 or 3. Doesn't take the dissolved stuff out???? I thought that was the main advantage of RO. Would you care to site someplace that backs up your assertion?
I guess I dont have any sources. Just experience. I am a chemist that runs a variety of water purification systems for a college lab. We have a commercial RO system that generates around 15-20 gallons (maybe more) of "purified" water per hour running at 200 psi. (with a straight RO system, there is no carbon filter, just a membrane). With tests, the conductivity is reduced from tap by a factor of 2 or 3. I have actually tested this. Our next purification step is deionization. Using an ion-exchange column, dissolved salts and the like are taken from the RO water and adsorbed onto the column. Conductivity is reduced, from that of the RO water, by a factor of 10. I have actually tested this. The last step in water purification is our ultrapurification system. This system takes the DI water and runs it through several filters, including additional ion exchange columns and carbon filters. It is tested for resistance and does not pass unless the resistance across the purified water is 18.2 MOhms (100% pure water). This water then passes through a 0.22micron filter to make doubly sure all bacterial is gone. This is pure water. Now, all that being said, I would be perfectly happy to drink RO water any day of the week. Thats pure enough for me. But nothing short of the process I outlined will take everything out. And contaminated water (i.e. lead contaminated) cannot be fully cleaned up by RO. Maybe in principle, but not in practice. Anything else is misinformation. |
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RO does not remove everything. It will take most of the bacteria and crap out, the big stuff, but it will not take much of the dissolved stuff out. It maybe reduces the conductivity by a factor of 2 or 3. Doesn't take the dissolved stuff out???? I thought that was the main advantage of RO. Would you care to site someplace that backs up your assertion?
I guess I dont have any sources. Just experience. I am a chemist that runs a variety of water purification systems for a college lab. We have a commercial RO system that generates around 15-20 gallons (maybe more) of "purified" water per hour running at 200 psi. (with a straight RO system, there is no carbon filter, just a membrane). With tests, the conductivity is reduced from tap by a factor of 2 or 3. I have actually tested this. Our next purification step is deionization. Using an ion-exchange column, dissolved salts and the like are taken from the RO water and adsorbed onto the column. Conductivity is reduced, from that of the RO water, by a factor of 10. I have actually tested this. The last step in water purification is our ultrapurification system. This system takes the DI water and runs it through several filters, including additional ion exchange columns and carbon filters. It is tested for resistance and does not pass unless the resistance across the purified water is 18.2 MOhms (100% pure water). This water then passes through a 0.22micron filter to make doubly sure all bacterial is gone. This is pure water. Now, all that being said, I would be perfectly happy to drink RO water any day of the week. Thats pure enough for me. But nothing short of the process I outlined will take everything out. And contaminated water (i.e. lead contaminated) cannot be fully cleaned up by RO. Maybe in principle, but not in practice. Anything else is misinformation. I think you are mixing up chemically pure H2O with pure drinking water. RO systems if you use the right membrane with the correct psi will purify water with an efficiency up to 95-100%, something far below lab condition needs but well within drinking water safe. Yes you can never "fully" decontaminate water that has lead or arsenic contamination but you can at least reduce the concentration well into the safe range. |
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I think you are mixing up chemically pure H2O with pure drinking water. RO systems if you use the right membrane with the correct psi will purify water with an efficiency up to 95-100%, something far below lab condition needs but well within drinking water safe. Yes you can never "fully" decontaminate water that has lead or arsenic contamination but you can at least reduce the concentration well into the safe range. Like I said, I would be perfectly happy drinking RO water, assuming we didnt start with water coming out of a factory or something known to be highly contaminated. The thing is, there are a lot of people thinking that RO takes out everything. The RO process does not. If a company claims their system does, then it has some other filters involved, such as activated carbon (which will require a replacement cartridge), some type of ion-exchange or zeolite system (such as in a water softener; which requires flushing), a UV system, or a submicron filter ( .1µm or 0.22µm) OR their claims are overstated. |
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I just read the PDF EMERGENCY DISINFECTION OF DRINKING WATER and it specifically say use 'high test' '70 %', so I'm in on that. What if later, I can't get the 70% stuff or I need to tell someone else about this:
A couple questions Can you use the HTH stuff that is 47%? Would you adjust the concentration to some ratio higher? Is the other 53% in the HTH the reason you should not use it? |
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Two probably unoriginal thoughts:
1. This thread should be tagged IMHO. How does that happen? 2. http://www.lesliespool.com/browse/Home/Pool-Chemicals/Pool-Shock/D/30000/P/1:100:1000:100010 They sell it in packs as well as 25 lb buckets. Two questions: 1. How long does pool shock last in the packets? 2. Has anyone actually drank water purified via bleach created via pool shock? Just curious. |
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Perhaps with this it would be a good idea to have vials of power pre-measured to treat, say 5 gallons of water. This would take some calculation and perhaps a balance (which can be had on ebay for cheap) but it would be convenient to have a couple vials in your BOB that would treat your .mil water can full of water from a stream. Just my .02 According to my calculations you should be able to add 2.75 grains of powder directly to the 5 gal and have drinkable water. |
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I showed my bro-n-law this post. I kinda trust his insight because he an analytical chemist by trade. Anyway his main problem with the above idea is the "other 25%" since its not regulated there is no telling what kind of heavy metals, or other nasty chemicals that are designed to kill things in there. Any other input on this? Bumping this post as well. |
| Went looking for a high test pool shock. Best I could find was 63% (locally). I stopped by a specialty pool/spa dealer and they didn't have any calcium hypochlorite shocks at all. I asked about them and was told the industry is phasing out chlorine based products and replacing them with other options. Could be a load of BS, or could be you should buy a couple bags now. |
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I think this may be what everyone is looking for. An answer from some one who is supposed to know, the EPA.
http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw000/faq/emerg.html Here is another site with a lot of good info. In the index, you will find everything about pool shock under the heading Chlorine. The page is VERY LONG so it may take a few seconds to load. http://zenbackpacking.net/WaterFilterPurifierTreatment.htm |
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Quoted: Thanks for those links. Very Helpful By back tracking the links I was able to find more info to read.I think this may be what everyone is looking for. An answer from some one who is supposed to know, the EPA. http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw000/faq/emerg.html Here is another site with a lot of good info. In the index, you will find everything about pool shock under the heading Chlorine. The page is VERY LONG so it may take a few seconds to load. http://zenbackpacking.net/WaterFilterPurifierTreatment.htm |
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Ctrl + D - I've started a folder of Favorites for survival info. I'm getting my money's worth today.
I would think that vacuum packing the powder would greatly help in protecting it from the elements. My head hurts from the math of trying to figure out just how much water you could purify make drinkable with $25 worth of this stuff. Now, some one whip up a batch and tell us how it tastes.
Just as soon as I slow down on my gun buying stuff I start bookmarking water filters, cases of MREs, etc. 
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Ctrl + D - I've started a folder of Favorites for survival info. I'm getting my money's worth today. I would think that vacuum packing the powder would greatly help in protecting it from the elements. My head hurts from the math of trying to figure out just how much water you could purify make drinkable with $25 worth of this stuff. Now, some one whip up a batch and tell us how it tastes.
Just as soon as I slow down on my gun buying stuff I start bookmarking water filters, cases of MREs, etc. Here is a real handy link for doing conversions. It has EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING. This will hopefully help with the headache. 
http://www.onlineconversion.com/ |
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All you want is Calcium Hypochlorite at 65% or stronger. HELP. All I can find around here is about 54% calcium hypochlorite. This will work, right? John I hate to hijack this thread, but this maybe something you want to look at instead of your chlorine base treatments. I have bought a few of these but I have NOT tried it yet. http://cgi.ebay.com/Water-Purification-Flakes-Activator-Kit-12Kgal-30-Yr_W0QQitemZ110394390161QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b404b691&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A30 |
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All you want is Calcium Hypochlorite at 65% or stronger. HELP. All I can find around here is about 54% calcium hypochlorite. This will work, right? John I hate to hijack this thread, but this maybe something you want to look at instead of your chlorine base treatments. I have bought a few of these but I have NOT tried it yet. http://cgi.ebay.com/Water-Purification-Flakes-Activator-Kit-12Kgal-30-Yr_W0QQitemZ110394390161QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b404b691&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A30 That is a LOT less expensive than the tablets from REI, etc. A source of sodium chlorite and citric acid and you could make your own. Here's some good info: http://www.lenntech.com/water-disinfection/disinfectants-chlorine-dioxide.htm |
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All you want is Calcium Hypochlorite at 65% or stronger. HELP. All I can find around here is about 54% calcium hypochlorite. This will work, right? John This question is still on the table. Will 54% Cal Hypo work? I don't see why it wouldn't so long as you increase the amount. If all you can get is 54% strength CH and you want say 70% stength, it is just math. Divide 54 by 70 and you get .7714 or 77%. That means your 54% CH that you can get is only 77% the strength of the higher test CH that you want which is 70% in strength. So you have to add 23% more of the lower test CH, 54% to bring it up to the stength you need or want. So, 77% plus 23% equals 100% strength of what you are looking for which is 70%. I hope you are not drinking while reading this. 
Basically, if you go by the formulas for 1/4 ounce of 70% CH, you would need just under a 1/3 of an ounce or .301 ounces. At this point, I think it would be MUCH easier to use a powder scale to do the math. So 1/4 ounce is 109.375 grains. Let's just round it up to 110 grains for ease of numbers. You want to add another 23% to 110. Take out your calculator and punch it up. I come up with 25.3 more grains of CH to be added to the 110 grains. Add the two figures together, 110 and 25.3 and I get a new total of 135.3 grains or round down to an even 135 grains. This 135 gr. is your new figure to use instead of the 1/4 ounce figure, and will bring you up to 70% CH in your mixture solution. Everything else remains the same to treat the drinking water. |
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All you want is Calcium Hypochlorite at 65% or stronger. HELP. All I can find around here is about 54% calcium hypochlorite. This will work, right? John This question is still on the table. Will 54% Cal Hypo work? I don't see why it wouldn't so long as you increase the amount. If all you can get is 54% strength CH and you want say 70% stength, it is just math. Divide 54 by 70 and you get .7714 or 77%. That means your 54% CH that you can get is only 77% the strength of the higher test CH that you want which is 70% in strength. So you have to add 23% more of the lower test CH, 54% to bring it up to the stength you need or want. So, 77% plus 23% equals 100% strength of what you are looking for which is 70%. I hope you are not drinking while reading this.
Basically, if you go by the formulas for 1/4 ounce of 70% CH, you would need just under a 1/3 of an ounce or .301 ounces. At this point, I think it would be MUCH easier to use a powder scale to do the math. So 1/4 ounce is 109.375 grains. Let's just round it up to 110 grains for ease of numbers. You want to add another 23% to 110. Take out your calculator and punch it up. I come up with 25.3 more grains of CH to be added to the 110 grains. Add the two figures together, 110 and 25.3 and I get a new total of 135.3 grains or round down to an even 135 grains. This 135 gr. is your new figure to use instead of the 1/4 ounce figure, and will bring you up to 70% CH in your mixture solution. Everything else remains the same to treat the drinking water. Hey, Bunk, thanks! That is what I'm talking about. The inert ingredients will increase, as well. Is this harmless? Would those components get trapped in a filter? ETA: I have about 5 pounds of the 54% stuff on hand for pool shock. If I could save a dollar here or there it helps maintain the budget. As I replace it, I'll find the high octane CH. |
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All you want is Calcium Hypochlorite at 65% or stronger. HELP. All I can find around here is about 54% calcium hypochlorite. This will work, right? John This question is still on the table. Will 54% Cal Hypo work? I don't see why it wouldn't so long as you increase the amount. If all you can get is 54% strength CH and you want say 70% stength, it is just math. Divide 54 by 70 and you get .7714 or 77%. That means your 54% CH that you can get is only 77% the strength of the higher test CH that you want which is 70% in strength. So you have to add 23% more of the lower test CH, 54% to bring it up to the stength you need or want. So, 77% plus 23% equals 100% strength of what you are looking for which is 70%. I hope you are not drinking while reading this.
Basically, if you go by the formulas for 1/4 ounce of 70% CH, you would need just under a 1/3 of an ounce or .301 ounces. At this point, I think it would be MUCH easier to use a powder scale to do the math. So 1/4 ounce is 109.375 grains. Let's just round it up to 110 grains for ease of numbers. You want to add another 23% to 110. Take out your calculator and punch it up. I come up with 25.3 more grains of CH to be added to the 110 grains. Add the two figures together, 110 and 25.3 and I get a new total of 135.3 grains or round down to an even 135 grains. This 135 gr. is your new figure to use instead of the 1/4 ounce figure, and will bring you up to 70% CH in your mixture solution. Everything else remains the same to treat the drinking water. Hey, Bunk, thanks! That is what I'm talking about. The inert ingredients will increase, as well. Is this harmless? Would those components get trapped in a filter? ETA: I have about 5 pounds of the 54% stuff on hand for pool shock. If I could save a dollar here or there it helps maintain the budget. As I replace it, I'll find the high octane CH. I spoke to a field rep today about this. He said everything will dissolve in the water and won't plug up any filter. He said nothing in there is harmful so long as the correct amounts are used. He agreed that EPA "SHOULD" have a handle on the amounts and to follow what they have posted. He said kids drink more swimming pool water everyday in the summer than they do anything else, and it has to be safe for them. |
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All you want is Calcium Hypochlorite at 65% or stronger. HELP. All I can find around here is about 54% calcium hypochlorite. This will work, right? John I hate to hijack this thread, but this maybe something you want to look at instead of your chlorine base treatments. I have bought a few of these but I have NOT tried it yet. http://cgi.ebay.com/Water-Purification-Flakes-Activator-Kit-12Kgal-30-Yr_W0QQitemZ110394390161QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b404b691&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A30 If this stuff is real and works and is safe this could be great for a lot of things. I have a well that's slimed up with "bio film" for example and if that can get rid of it I'll be a happy camper. |
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I ordered one of these today: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-BRITISH-BERKEFELD-SS-2X2-BERKEY-Water-Filter-System_W0QQitemZ360164162336QQcategoryZ20684QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3907.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%252BSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DFICS%252BUA%252BUCI%252BUFI%252BIA%26otn%3D15%26po%3DLVIC%26ps%3D54 For $169 it's hardly more than the DIY one on page 1 of this thread. And free shipping... We have a lake right across the road from the house. |
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I spoke to a field rep today about this. He said everything will dissolve in the water and won't plug up any filter. He said nothing in there is harmful so long as the correct amounts are used. He agreed that EPA "SHOULD" have a handle on the amounts and to follow what they have posted. He said kids drink more swimming pool water everyday in the summer than they do anything else, and it has to be safe for them. Mr. Bunker, Thank you very much for the clarification. I've picked up several pounds of the stuff, not so much for me but for the masses who might need potable water. John |
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I ordered one of these today: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-BRITISH-BERKEFELD-SS-2X2-BERKEY-Water-Filter-System_W0QQitemZ360164162336QQcategoryZ20684QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3907.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%252BSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DFICS%252BUA%252BUCI%252BUFI%252BIA%26otn%3D15%26po%3DLVIC%26ps%3D54 For $169 it's hardly more than the DIY one on page 1 of this thread. And free shipping... We have a lake right across the road from the house. I went with the home-made (yet to be constructed) option. Got enough to make four of them (or two of them with four candles instead of two for faster production). John |
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All you want is Calcium Hypochlorite at 65% or stronger. HELP. All I can find around here is about 54% calcium hypochlorite. This will work, right? John This question is still on the table. Will 54% Cal Hypo work? I don't see why it wouldn't so long as you increase the amount. If all you can get is 54% strength CH and you want say 70% stength, it is just math. Divide 54 by 70 and you get .7714 or 77%. That means your 54% CH that you can get is only 77% the strength of the higher test CH that you want which is 70% in strength. So you have to add 23% more of the lower test CH, 54% to bring it up to the stength you need or want. So, 77% plus 23% equals 100% strength of what you are looking for which is 70%. I hope you are not drinking while reading this.
Basically, if you go by the formulas for 1/4 ounce of 70% CH, you would need just under a 1/3 of an ounce or .301 ounces. At this point, I think it would be MUCH easier to use a powder scale to do the math. So 1/4 ounce is 109.375 grains. Let's just round it up to 110 grains for ease of numbers. You want to add another 23% to 110. Take out your calculator and punch it up. I come up with 25.3 more grains of CH to be added to the 110 grains. Add the two figures together, 110 and 25.3 and I get a new total of 135.3 grains or round down to an even 135 grains. This 135 gr. is your new figure to use instead of the 1/4 ounce figure, and will bring you up to 70% CH in your mixture solution. Everything else remains the same to treat the drinking water. Hey, Bunk, thanks! That is what I'm talking about. The inert ingredients will increase, as well. Is this harmless? Would those components get trapped in a filter? ETA: I have about 5 pounds of the 54% stuff on hand for pool shock. If I could save a dollar here or there it helps maintain the budget. As I replace it, I'll find the high octane CH. I spoke to a field rep today about this. He said everything will dissolve in the water and won't plug up any filter. He said nothing in there is harmful so long as the correct amounts are used. He agreed that EPA "SHOULD" have a handle on the amounts and to follow what they have posted. He said kids drink more swimming pool water everyday in the summer than they do anything else, and it has to be safe for them. I didn't think of that. I used hang out at the public pool and probably drank gallons as a kid. |
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I hate to hijack this thread, but this maybe something you want to look at instead of your chlorine base treatments. I have bought a few of these but I have NOT tried it yet. http://cgi.ebay.com/Water-Purification-Flakes-Activator-Kit-12Kgal-30-Yr_W0QQitemZ110394390161QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b404b691&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A30 If this stuff is real and works and is safe this could be great for a lot of things. I have a well that's slimed up with "bio film" for example and if that can get rid of it I'll be a happy camper. I ordered one of these kits today. Will see quickly how well it works on the well and cistern. If it disinfects the well I'll be duly impressed. I have some mold and mildew I can try it on also. |
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Quoted: Yeah the last Ace hardware went out of business here in December. Quoted: Just came back from Lowe's. They only have Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione dihydrate. Will this work? Home depot has CH but not the 70% mix. Try Ace Hardware, they had 63% here, highest I could find.  They used to be great for finding unusual stuff. We do have Leslie pool supply, so I will likely go there. |