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Posted: 10/22/2019 5:32:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Fooboy]
Target focus.
Better accuracy across the board. Speed is the same up close with some practice, better at medium/longer distance. Im converting people left and right. When I go back to shooting irons I'm better at it after shooting dots, but wonder why you'd want to stay there. If you're thinking about it - jump in with both feet. - Zero distance chart - 1.5Y recap - Water test 1 - Water test 2 - Can't find dot, poor irons alignment - Rear Irons Placement - Universal Truths - Target Focus at 40Y - Pistol marksmanship, Phantom flinch |
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Posted: 10/22/2019 5:36:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Hey, to each their own. I tried it and hated it but the popularity is clearly increasing.
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Posted: 10/22/2019 5:37:22 PM EDT
[#2]
For a target shooter, sure.
Daily carry? massive printing and holster issues; also engagements are likely going to be "bad breath" range hardly conducive to aiming with optics. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 10/22/2019 5:39:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Didn't make me more accurate from far or faster close plus concealed matters and I dont need batteries on a pistol. Glad it works for you.
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Posted: 10/22/2019 5:41:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Fooboy]
[#4]
So wrong. I see the most benefits in dynamic shooting / shooting on the move / competition / drills.
I could care less about shooting a tiny group. But it's easier too. As for CCW.  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/22/2019 5:44:27 PM EDT
[#5]
Cool, you managed to quote yourself
I guess you should have been more precise what you meant by optics, then; or I in my response. I've got full-size long eye-relief scopes on some of my handguns, and that's what I think of when someone says "optics on a pistol" |
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Posted: 10/22/2019 5:47:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: King_Mud]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits:
For a target shooter, sure. Daily carry? massive printing and holster issues; also engagements are likely going to be "bad breath" range hardly conducive to aiming with optics. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits:
For a target shooter, sure. Daily carry? massive printing and holster issues; also engagements are likely going to be "bad breath" range hardly conducive to aiming with optics. Originally Posted By Greenspan:
Didn't make me more accurate from far or faster close plus concealed matters and I dont need batteries on a pistol. Glad it works for you. 
ETA: see your followup now. Why were you thinking LER scope on a carry gun? 
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Posted: 10/22/2019 5:58:18 PM EDT
[#7]
I'm not sold on it just yet. Maybe after a new generation micro dots comes out that offers better optical clarity, longer batter life, better mounting systems, increased durability, and less weight. I can wait.
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Posted: 10/22/2019 5:59:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Until they get to the relialibility standard that Aimpoint/Trijicon has for their rifle optics, not putting an unreliable digital sight for carrying.
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Posted: 10/22/2019 6:10:00 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By King_Mud:
ETA: see your followup now. Why were you thinking LER scope on a carry gun? Red dots I guess aren't real to me - just toys, and still bulky when they came out and I started using them, as opposed to what they've become. i.e. this is what I think when I think "optic" Even "red-dot optic" 
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Posted: 10/22/2019 6:54:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ggibbs]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fooboy:
So wrong. I see the most benefits in dynamic shooting / shooting on the move / competition / drills. I could care less about shooting a tiny group. But it's easier too. As for CCW. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/113559/2B8B18C2-F84D-465C-A505-57CA48FE6BEB_jpeg-1134056.JPG Anyone else seeing the shift from marksmanship to "...oh well, I have 16 rounds remaining and a spare mag."? From the comfort, safety, and controlled conditions of your recliner, the local range or running around shooting big targets while pretending to clear rooms, sure, why not? But in the real world, sights don't need batteries. |
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TUN
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Posted: 10/22/2019 6:58:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fla556guy]
[#11]
Too much coin, I'm not yet sold, and for my uses of a pistol, it's not going to bring more to the table than $600 of 9mm ammo and some range time won't do better.
I'll reconsider them in a few years if they have stuck around and have been improved and cost reduced. Right now, iron sights work for me, are utterly reliable, and I've got other monetary priorities for my gun fund. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/22/2019 6:59:22 PM EDT
[#12]
My complaint is how they get dirty. I don't like looking through dirty glasses. Dont like looking through a dirty windshield. Don't like dirty eyepro. The little red dot right by the ejection port on my guns likes to get dirty, too.
This weekend, I went from perfectly clean red dot to can't see a damn thing through it in 46 rounds. You know how many time's I've had to stop and wipe off my iron sights? Never. Tens of thousands of rounds and never had them get dirty. |
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Posted: 10/22/2019 7:05:33 PM EDT
[#13]
I agree OP.
And I wear Mk.2 eyeballs so I have to clean them at least once a day. An extra swipe? No problemo. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/22/2019 7:20:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Greenspan:
Didn't make me more accurate from far or faster close plus concealed matters and I dont need batteries on a pistol. Glad it works for you. |
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Posted: 10/22/2019 7:21:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Fooboy]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune:
My complaint is how they get dirty. I don't like looking through dirty glasses. Dont like looking through a dirty windshield. Don't like dirty eyepro. The little red dot right by the ejection port on my guns likes to get dirty, too. This weekend, I went from perfectly clean red dot to can't see a damn thing through it in 46 rounds. You know how many time's I've had to stop and wipe off my iron sights? Never. Tens of thousands of rounds and never had them get dirty. You're doing it wrong. #1 reason to mill dot rear of irons. Ive not had to clean my glass once. https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/Why-you-should-mill-your-rear-iron-in-front-of-your-red-dot/4-189626/ |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/22/2019 7:31:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: giantpune]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fooboy:
@giantpune You're doing it wrong. #1 reason to mill dot rear of irons. Ive not had to clean my glass once. https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/Why-you-should-mill-your-rear-iron-in-front-of-your-red-dot/4-189626/ 
And how do you keep your glass clean on a gun you supposedly carry 24/7? Regular dirt and bellybutton lint will end up collecting on the glass unless you're a liar or you work in a clean room. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/22/2019 7:32:05 PM EDT
[#17]
try a good sight like an RMR at night... much better than tritium...change out the battery on your birth day... I use one for steel challenge where the local match is shot into a concrete "bunker" much easier to see a dot than front sight in varying light...with a little practice as soon as the pistol is presented, the dot is on target
IMHO... a good service pistol with RMR and mounted light is the best answer for a defensive pistol... with shortened Heinie Slant Pro sights, I can still see the irons if a catastrophic failure should occur (not supressor height) on my G17 with Trijicon RMR |
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Posted: 10/22/2019 7:39:57 PM EDT
[#18]
I suggest that anyone who is arguing against RDS on pistols to take the time to watch these videos.
 Making the Switch to Handgun RDS  RDS for Duty Use  Natural RDS Dot Movement and Sight Picture  Cowitnessing with Handgun Optics |
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Posted: 10/22/2019 8:07:06 PM EDT
[#19]
I don’t think I could go back to regular sights, huge improvements in speed and accuracy for me, YUGE.
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USA
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Posted: 10/22/2019 8:19:34 PM EDT
[#20]
I think in time handgun optics will be as common as rifle optics. There have been recent big military and federal police contracts for handguns that can mount red dots.
Years ago, scopes were not that reliable and most hunters wanted open or peep sights on rifles. Leupold and Weaver changed that for mass market hunters. I think reliable red dots for concealed and duty handgun carry will continue to advance similar to what happened with rifle scopes. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 10/22/2019 11:45:15 PM EDT
[#21]
Some people find them a great advantage others less so, and it depends on what the intent is for your pistol.
I can’t deny they may be the wave of the future, but I am simply not there yet. I like to shoot old classics with small iron sights and do pretty well with them. I have casually tried a dot, and understand it requires thousands of draw and fired to really fully gain its advantages. I am just not ready to invest in that yet. When my eyes go down hill perhaps but right now despite my. Age, I can still see sights clearly. |
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Posted: 10/22/2019 11:46:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 762AR25:
Hey, to each their own. I tried it and hated it but the popularity is clearly increasing. |
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Posted: 10/22/2019 11:57:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: army75th]
[#23]
Gave red dot a chance. Practicing did not help , after 6,000 rounds I came to the conclusion- irons is faster than chasing a damn dot. Just another fad
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 10/23/2019 12:10:01 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By King_Mud:
Concealment issues with a dot that adds very little to the profile and is in an area that's pretty much dead space anyway?
ETA: see your followup now. Why were you thinking LER scope on a carry gun? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By King_Mud:
Originally Posted By Circuits:
For a target shooter, sure. Daily carry? massive printing and holster issues; also engagements are likely going to be "bad breath" range hardly conducive to aiming with optics. Originally Posted By Greenspan:
Didn't make me more accurate from far or faster close plus concealed matters and I dont need batteries on a pistol. Glad it works for you.
ETA: see your followup now. Why were you thinking LER scope on a carry gun? |
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USA
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Posted: 10/23/2019 12:17:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Minnesotadude]
[#25]
I have no intention of going back to irons ever. There are so many advantages. If you can't shoot a dot well you probably don't shoot your irons as well as you think you do.
Oh, and recently I have seen more irons falling out of dovetails than trijicon red dots failing. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 10/23/2019 12:28:09 AM EDT
[#26]
My department recently approved red dots for our new G17 MOS pistols. Most of the guys, myself included, who are very into guns are switching. The only officers not doing it are the ones who are too cheap, or the idiots who never practice/shoot with their weapons.
I personally think red dots on pistols are the future. 20-30 years ago, everyone thought irons were just fine for rifles. Now, no serious military or police unit would even think about rifles without optics. Pistols are going the same way. |
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Posted: 10/23/2019 12:57:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: NachoDip]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Overkill777:
I'm not sold on it just yet. Maybe after a new generation micro dots comes out that offers better optical clarity, longer batter life, better mounting systems, increased durability, and less weight. I can wait. You may want to re evaluate your statement. Edited because I'm not in GD 
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USA
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Posted: 10/23/2019 2:11:43 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune:
My complaint is how they get dirty. I don't like looking through dirty glasses. Dont like looking through a dirty windshield. Don't like dirty eyepro. The little red dot right by the ejection port on my guns likes to get dirty, too. This weekend, I went from perfectly clean red dot to can't see a damn thing through it in 46 rounds. You know how many time's I've had to stop and wipe off my iron sights? Never. Tens of thousands of rounds and never had them get dirty. Tape up the front of the window and try it. |
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Posted: 10/23/2019 2:21:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Frost7]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune:
Tell FN and glock they both did it wrong then. Maybe they'll hire you as a consultant.
And how do you keep your glass clean on a gun you supposedly carry 24/7? Regular dirt and bellybutton lint will end up collecting on the glass unless you're a liar or you work in a clean room. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune:
Originally Posted By Fooboy:
@giantpune You're doing it wrong. #1 reason to mill dot rear of irons. Ive not had to clean my glass once. https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/Why-you-should-mill-your-rear-iron-in-front-of-your-red-dot/4-189626/
And how do you keep your glass clean on a gun you supposedly carry 24/7? Regular dirt and bellybutton lint will end up collecting on the glass unless you're a liar or you work in a clean room. I’ve had to rely on co-witnessed BUIS on my Benelli a few times before because the RMR emitter got too much crap in it and it couldn’t be cleared by blowing in it. I can only imagine how full of shit it’d get being EDC on a pistol. I’m sure an enclosed system like the Steiner MRS would solve that, but that might get bulky. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 10/23/2019 3:28:54 AM EDT
[#30]
When I can buy one out of the box, including the optic and a good compatible holster with no fuss for a sane price, I'll be all about it. Until then, iron sights are doing just fine for me. I really don't like having to fuck around with my guns after I buy them. Hell even changing out normal sights annoys me.
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USA
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Posted: 10/23/2019 4:16:31 AM EDT
[#31]
I'm sold on it, I'm way faster and quicker with my milled glock. Zero down side, I use the same holster I have for 6 years, my raven vg2.
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Posted: 10/23/2019 5:32:33 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Frost7:
I carry an M9a3 almost daily and that thing gets filled with shit that needs knocking out with a brush on the regular. In and under the hammer, in the trigger, in the muzzle, on the guide rod, in the lanyard loop... I’ve had to rely on co-witnessed BUIS on my Benelli a few times before because the RMR emitter got too much crap in it and it couldn’t be cleared by blowing in it. I can only imagine how full of shit it’d get being EDC on a pistol. I’m sure an enclosed system like the Steiner MRS would solve that, but that might get bulky. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Frost7:
Originally Posted By giantpune:
Originally Posted By Fooboy:
@giantpune You're doing it wrong. #1 reason to mill dot rear of irons. Ive not had to clean my glass once. https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/Why-you-should-mill-your-rear-iron-in-front-of-your-red-dot/4-189626/
And how do you keep your glass clean on a gun you supposedly carry 24/7? Regular dirt and bellybutton lint will end up collecting on the glass unless you're a liar or you work in a clean room. I’ve had to rely on co-witnessed BUIS on my Benelli a few times before because the RMR emitter got too much crap in it and it couldn’t be cleared by blowing in it. I can only imagine how full of shit it’d get being EDC on a pistol. I’m sure an enclosed system like the Steiner MRS would solve that, but that might get bulky. |
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Posted: 10/23/2019 5:47:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: eracer]
[#33]
If one can't draw and consistently rapid-fire hit a pie plate at 7 yards using iron sights, one needs to practice more.
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Posted: 10/23/2019 5:51:54 AM EDT
[#34]
One word, Brace
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Posted: 10/23/2019 9:00:49 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 762AR25:
Hey, to each their own. I tried it and hated it but the popularity is clearly increasing. |
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Posted: 10/23/2019 9:14:32 AM EDT
[#36]
it's the wave of the future, but I'm not super interested in being an early adopter. I built one up a few years ago but when I was competition shooting. I realized I would need to go full Open division or switch back and forth between sights, and I wasn't ready for that.
Now that I'm not serious about competition I'm more into it. Tried a 507c on my Flux 17 and was easy to hit 4" steel at 50 yards. turns a pistol into a PDW. I may buy that new shield with a dot to see how it goes for a while before mounting dots to other pistols. |
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Posted: 10/23/2019 9:37:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 45-Seventy]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 762AR25:
Hey, to each their own. I tried it and hated it but the popularity is clearly increasing. But I guess just quitting is easier than training. |
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Posted: 10/23/2019 9:37:52 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits:
For a target shooter, sure. Daily carry? massive printing and holster issues; also engagements are likely going to be "bad breath" range hardly conducive to aiming with optics. That’s idiotic. |
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Posted: 10/23/2019 9:54:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: JBecker_72]
[#39]
First, what RMR do I want for my Glock 19.5? Second, who do I send it to for the cut that won't butcher it and try and blame me somehow after? Third, what sights for co-witness should I get? Big fan of Trijicon HD and others that look similar. |
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Posted: 10/23/2019 10:01:13 AM EDT
[#40]
I’m all about it.
Except I can buy another pistol for what the red dot costs. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/23/2019 10:04:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: giantpune]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scott-S6:
You don't need to see through it. |
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Posted: 10/23/2019 10:13:06 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Krashdog:
I’m all about it. Except I can buy another pistol for what the red dot costs. |
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Posted: 10/23/2019 10:14:55 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Getnlwr:
Longer battery life? Jpoint and Doctor Optics battery life is measured in Years. I have one with the same battery in it for over 4 years. They are also feather weight for what they are. German precision lenses. You may want to re evaluate your statement. Edited because I'm not in GD Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Getnlwr:
Originally Posted By Overkill777:
I'm not sold on it just yet. Maybe after a new generation micro dots comes out that offers better optical clarity, longer batter life, better mounting systems, increased durability, and less weight. I can wait. You may want to re evaluate your statement. Edited because I'm not in GD There is definitely room for improvement. Advancements in electronic devices happen quickly. |
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Posted: 10/23/2019 10:17:07 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JBecker_72:
First, what RMR do I want for my Glock 19.5? Second, who do I send it to for the cut that won't butcher it and try and blame me somehow after? Third, what sights for co-witness should I get? Big fan of Trijicon HD and others that look similar. RMR or Holosun 507/508 is you’re on a budget. Send it to Primary Machine. |
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Posted: 10/23/2019 10:18:17 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eracer:
If one can't draw and consistently rapid-fire hit a pie plate at 7 yards using iron sights, one needs to practice more. |
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Posted: 10/23/2019 10:20:41 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By army75th:
Gave red dot a chance. Practicing did not help , after 6,000 rounds I came to the conclusion- irons is faster than chasing a damn dot. Just another fad 1) Your presentation is trash. 2) You’re just shooting, and not training. |
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Posted: 10/23/2019 10:23:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Fooboy]
[#47]
This was at 5 and 100 Y recovering from rotator cuff surgery last year and I was still new at it. Only gotten better.
Testing has showing shooting on the move and complex drills - my scores / times are much better with dot.  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 10/23/2019 11:54:19 AM EDT
[#48]
Seen a few come off of guns during matches, seen a few lose the dot due to battery problems. I think they're a good idea but they aren't quite there yet. I'd like to see easier battery access, a sealed emitter and they need to get tougher across the board before I'll bother with one for daily carry.
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Posted: 10/23/2019 11:59:15 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ken_mays:
Seen a few come off of guns during matches, seen a few lose the dot due to battery problems. I think they're a good idea but they aren't quite there yet. I'd like to see easier battery access, a sealed emitter and they need to get tougher across the board before I'll bother with one for daily carry. Dead batteries? Absolutely... Right now the favorite Carry Optics MRDS is the DPP and Leupold secures the battery connection with tape rather than being soldered down and this is a common issue. For a carry gun just run an RMR or Holosun 507/508 so you won’t have that issue. |
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Posted: 10/23/2019 12:05:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Marksman14]
[#50]
Took a class with Sage Dynamics.
Opened my eyes, and Aaron is one of the best instructors I've ever worked with. You're either willing to train and learn how to use the system, or you aren't. If you aren't, don't bother. All the gripes I hear about the concept are from people who haven't put in any serious effort, and given up. If you are willing, it's superior on virtually every level. RMR Type 2 for duty/carry use, change your battery once a year. Simple. |
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