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Originally Posted By AKSig: Maybe 2-3 people out of all the bullshitters here that said they would buy a basic bitch truck if they could will get one.  We're few and far between. And I already have my simple vehicles. 97 Jeep TJ Wrangler and 95 Jeep XJ Cherokee. I need to get the XJ back on the road. It actually has AC.  I plan on adding cruise control to both, and already have the kit for the TJ. But my daily driver is a 4Runner. The 2005 is pretty loaded for that year of vehicle and the 2020 has way too many bells and whistles being a TRD. The TRD is going to be sold before long. |
Squatch
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Originally Posted By packinheavy: We're few and far between. And I already have my simple vehicles. 97 Jeep TJ Wrangler and 95 Jeep XJ Cherokee. I need to get the XJ back on the road. It actually has AC. I plan on adding cruise control to both, and already have the kit for the TJ. But my daily driver is a 4Runner. The 2005 is pretty loaded for that year of vehicle and the 2020 has way too many bells and whistles being a TRD. The TRD is going to be sold before long. Originally Posted By packinheavy: Originally Posted By AKSig: Maybe 2-3 people out of all the bullshitters here that said they would buy a basic bitch truck if they could will get one. We're few and far between. And I already have my simple vehicles. 97 Jeep TJ Wrangler and 95 Jeep XJ Cherokee. I need to get the XJ back on the road. It actually has AC. I plan on adding cruise control to both, and already have the kit for the TJ. But my daily driver is a 4Runner. The 2005 is pretty loaded for that year of vehicle and the 2020 has way too many bells and whistles being a TRD. The TRD is going to be sold before long. I'd be all over a super basic truck. I currently DD a 92 Toyota Pickup 5speed. No AC. No power anything. Its fucking glorious. My dad drives a 2023 GX and has an Ineos on order. He's a well-off retired dude looking for ways to spend his returns. He's all over these cheap pickups and wants one bad. He's offered me some outrageous cash for my Pickup. He had his chance when his dad was selling it. I just beat him to the punch! |
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Older Jeeps was my first thought. Dudes are swapping TDI's into everything because they are cheap and available. I always figured Mahindra could be pretty competitive price wise. Whole different world from the Cummins R2.8 which they sell for 10 grand so maybe there's an in between. Unlike Cummins, Mahindra has foreign volume AND the Roxor to lean on. The R2.8 is a China engine with applications elsewhere. Maybe they just don't want to fool with it. Because the R2.8 is closer to $12k now I thought. Should be some room. I've messed with bread truck 4BTs and various sourced MB OMs. Used to be decent budget options if you scored. But those aren't near as common anymore - so I could see some demand. I'm really not sure enough to move the needle at Mahindra tho. Plus they like selling Roxor's not repowering some competition |
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Originally Posted By _DR: Those were actually made by Mitsubishi or Isuzu IIRC, and were pretty tough. Originally Posted By _DR: Originally Posted By toby1: I' be happy with a version of the old Chevy LUV truck. I ran the wheels off of mine years ago. Those were actually made by Mitsubishi or Isuzu IIRC, and were pretty tough. GM had Isuzu ownership at the time. Isuzu Pups and the badge engineered LUVs were import product. Came in as Toyota's Japan built pickups and some other imports did. Isuzu mfg cab and chassis were imported, then equipped with parallel shipped beds in the States. Classed at a lower duty rate - rather than 25% for categorized "trucks". The diesels were kinda cool and awful thrifty tho anemic. The Chevette with the 1.8L Isuzu diesel and no shit 5 speed was kinda sought after. Big mpg. No A/C and slow as shit tho. The 2.2L in the early 80s trucks did a bit better. |
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Originally Posted By Alacrity: Hmm. I'm trying to think why they couldn't. Technically the R2.8 is limited in its model year application. Emissions should to doable.. There'd be some State restrictions. Might need assembled in the States and maybe Mahindra USA isn't interested. Non-road cert tho so I'm betting on EPA either can't or isn't viewed as worth pursuing. Maybe someone knows . . . Unlike Cummins, Mahindra has foreign volume AND the Roxor to lean on. The R2.8 is a China engine with applications elsewhere. Maybe they just don't want to fool with it. Because the R2.8 is closer to $12k now I thought. Should be some room. I've messed with bread truck 4BTs and various sourced MB OMs. Used to be decent budget options if you scored. But those aren't near as common anymore - so I could see some demand. I'm really not sure enough to move the needle at Mahindra tho. Plus they like selling Roxor's not repowering some competition Originally Posted By Alacrity: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Older Jeeps was my first thought. Dudes are swapping TDI's into everything because they are cheap and available. I always figured Mahindra could be pretty competitive price wise. Whole different world from the Cummins R2.8 which they sell for 10 grand so maybe there's an in between. Unlike Cummins, Mahindra has foreign volume AND the Roxor to lean on. The R2.8 is a China engine with applications elsewhere. Maybe they just don't want to fool with it. Because the R2.8 is closer to $12k now I thought. Should be some room. I've messed with bread truck 4BTs and various sourced MB OMs. Used to be decent budget options if you scored. But those aren't near as common anymore - so I could see some demand. I'm really not sure enough to move the needle at Mahindra tho. Plus they like selling Roxor's not repowering some competition Most of the swaps aren't done with regards to emissions. I don't think anyone cares and so many areas that don't do smog or inspections. Eventually that may change but nobody seems to care. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Most of the swaps aren't done with regards to emissions. I don't think anyone cares and so many areas that don't do smog or inspections. Eventually that may change but nobody seems to care. Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By Alacrity: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Older Jeeps was my first thought. Dudes are swapping TDI's into everything because they are cheap and available. I always figured Mahindra could be pretty competitive price wise. Whole different world from the Cummins R2.8 which they sell for 10 grand so maybe there's an in between. Unlike Cummins, Mahindra has foreign volume AND the Roxor to lean on. The R2.8 is a China engine with applications elsewhere. Maybe they just don't want to fool with it. Because the R2.8 is closer to $12k now I thought. Should be some room. I've messed with bread truck 4BTs and various sourced MB OMs. Used to be decent budget options if you scored. But those aren't near as common anymore - so I could see some demand. I'm really not sure enough to move the needle at Mahindra tho. Plus they like selling Roxor's not repowering some competition Most of the swaps aren't done with regards to emissions. I don't think anyone cares and so many areas that don't do smog or inspections. Eventually that may change but nobody seems to care. But yea, like Cummins, there's gonna be restricted markets. CARB states (acquaintance in CO mentioned it was a no go for his Scout) , areas with active testing, some specific State statutory barriers (oddly both WVA and TX come to mind). But I'd also assume that Mahindra would market the crate engine as an on road solution. So internal compliance peeps and regulatory encouragement - would follow Cummins example and cert to some base on-road emissions Tier. As it sits, almost certain it's imported under off road, UTV regime - which I believe is still treated as ATVs. Or I've been wrong for quite a bit Unsure if it arrives as a completed unit or assembled here. Strongly suspect the latter. I'm also unsure how emissions impacts and intersects specifically, given its crate sales.Paths around some of that. Depending on risk aversion. Mahindra got some attention when they arrived. I'm sure there's interests still willing and able to complicate their situation. All that costs. Mahindra may have looked at the market and decided that direct competition with Cummins (whose intro in the States was an outgrowth of foreign capacity, not a primary market) and to a smaller extent DieselToys, doesn't make sense for them. Especially as Mahindra is involved with selling UTV units and repower isn't a gig they want to invest resources in. As I said, given its outside their core and may create situations adverse to their main biz, I could see some built in reluctance. But, outside Mukesh Adani and the now deceased Ratan Tata, I find Indian business leadership often inscrutable. |
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Originally Posted By Hanz: I was hoping for a Suzuki Samurai-ish pick up. Very basic, but also tough. I had a Samurai and it was very good for what it was. No pickup version, yet, but in the Philippines the three door Jimnys start around $20k and the five doors around $27k. They have a surprising amount of extra features for that price. I'd test driven a couple and had friends who owned them so I was going to buy one but before that happened I had to come back here for surgery; then covid hit and I haven't gone back. Three door https://auto.suzuki.com.ph/cars/jimny Five door https://auto.suzuki.com.ph/cars/jimny5door |
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I wonder how Alpha is doing on their electric rigs. Cool looking smaller truck that they’ve been floating a few years now. https://www.alphamotorinc.com/wolfrwd |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By Alacrity: Slate Auto? Initial deliveries maybe as soon as late this year. That's the public schedule from the new Amazon injected CEO. Probably a good bet given their team - I don't know the former CEO Chris Barman personally but she had enough varied experience to get hired and production most of the way there. Warsaw is tooling out and they'll be in position soon. Volume production will follow as demand proves out. Caution has set in. Peeps early on reservations may get early deliveries or maybe they get allocated a bit later. I read the new CEO - Faricy - as a response to the loss of IRA EV credits making the consumer out of pocket $7500 dollar more than they were planning. With Bezos Family Office Rep leaving the board and Amazon exec coming in I see movement towards a recovery mission. Too late to change much hardware or bail. Let's see if we can optimize distro channel side and wring out some value. Maybe lever Amazon efficiencies or exposure. Dunno really. Seem to me that kinda sunk plans especially after the Commercial Clean Credits went as well. Thats where I thought Slate had traction. Institutional and industrial- Cushman replacements with road privileges. With the credit, acquisition costs were close. Now $25k not so much but also not too far off, I still think they push there. They made some efforts early but I havnt followed up to see what marketing they've moved towards that market. Consumer sales were icing as I don't think it has a lot of legs in that arena. Tho I'll be pleasantly surprised to be wrong. @Bacon_Grease Thanks. Sounds like I won't really find much that beats a Maverick in this arena. But I'll have to keep my eye out for this thing once they start shipping out. |
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Originally Posted By ag04blast: I am starting to think I need to start a website for a vaporware product that can not be achieved and take in non-refundable deposites. Its honestly a worth while scam if you have the time and inclination to set them up right. Post wanted product. Have low reserve cost. Pocket deposits. Disappear. Repeat. |
| Maybe this already exists, but passenger cars need some sort of exemption from all of the fed nonsense if you build it yourself from a "kit" even if the assembly the buyer performs is hardly anything. The feds make everything more expensive. |
Don't confuse where I live with where I'm from.
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Originally Posted By Emoto: Maybe this already exists, but passenger cars need some sort of exemption from all of the fed nonsense if you build it yourself from a "kit" even if the assembly the buyer performs is hardly anything. The feds make everything more expensive. This already exists. The manufacturer can sell you a kit without an engine. Companies like Factory Five sell complete "rollers". I'm not sure if part of the compliance specifically has to due with "replicas." |
| This reminds me of a motel I stayed in. Part of my choice was based on 'breakfast included'. When I got up the next morning, I headed for the "dining room". Turns out, it was BREAKFASTitemINCLUDED. There were a couple chairs and a bowl with 6 or 7 granola bars in it. Watch for the small print, kids. The big print is to get you in the showroom/line/list. The small print is to get you into a corner. |
Arfcom's own STD
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Originally Posted By OregonShooter: No. The large players actively engage with global governments on regulations. They do not want startups taking market share. They want a moat around their business. The way Mercedes Benz attacked Europa for importing G wagens into the US Market when Mercedes didn't want to is epic history. Mercedes-Benz’s first line of attack wasn't against Europa specifically, but against the entire American "gray market." Annoyed that independent importers were undercutting official dealership prices and importing models Mercedes didn't want to support, Mercedes-Benz spent millions of dollars lobbying Congress This resulted in the Imported Vehicle Safety Compliance Act of 1988, which established the infamous "25-year import rule". The law made it practically impossible for individual shops to modify foreign cars to U.S. spec unless they underwent prohibitively expensive, destructive crash-testing and emissions testing Gray market import regs are just not remotely relevant to the discussion. Mercedes did what they did for liability reasons, to protect their dealers, and their brand, had absolutely nothing to do with blocking startup automakers, which is what my original comment was about. |
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Originally Posted By Alacrity: Mentioned since you've previously indicated some concern about consumer side compliance. Tho this past week may have degraded my normally reliable recall. But yea, like Cummins, there's gonna be restricted markets. CARB states (acquaintance in CO mentioned it was a no go for his Scout) , areas with active testing, some specific State statutory barriers (oddly both WVA and TX come to mind). But I'd also assume that Mahindra would market the crate engine as an on road solution. So internal compliance peeps and regulatory encouragement - would follow Cummins example and cert to some base on-road emissions Tier. As it sits, almost certain it's imported under off road, UTV regime - which I believe is still treated as ATVs. Or I've been wrong for quite a bit Unsure if it arrives as a completed unit or assembled here. Strongly suspect the latter. I'm also unsure how emissions impacts and intersects specifically, given its crate sales.Paths around some of that. Depending on risk aversion. Mahindra got some attention when they arrived. I'm sure there's interests still willing and able to complicate their situation. All that costs. Mahindra may have looked at the market and decided that direct competition with Cummins (whose intro in the States was an outgrowth of foreign capacity, not a primary market) and to a smaller extent DieselToys, doesn't make sense for them. Especially as Mahindra is involved with selling UTV units and repower isn't a gig they want to invest resources in. As I said, given its outside their core and may create situations adverse to their main biz, I could see some built in reluctance. But, outside Mukesh Adani and the now deceased Ratan Tata, I find Indian business leadership often inscrutable. Mahindra essentially shut down their US operations that would have commercialized anything here beyond a UTV segment entrant, which is what the Roxor is. Part of the shutdown was due to COVID panic, part was transition in upper management (enforced by rigid Indian retirement laws), and part was corporate politics. |
Joined:
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Posts:
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TX, USA
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Originally Posted By OregonShooter: This already exists. The manufacturer can sell you a kit without an engine. Companies like Factory Five sell complete "rollers". I'm not sure if part of the compliance specifically has to due with "replicas." Originally Posted By OregonShooter: Originally Posted By Emoto: Maybe this already exists, but passenger cars need some sort of exemption from all of the fed nonsense if you build it yourself from a "kit" even if the assembly the buyer performs is hardly anything. The feds make everything more expensive. This already exists. The manufacturer can sell you a kit without an engine. Companies like Factory Five sell complete "rollers". I'm not sure if part of the compliance specifically has to due with "replicas." Yeah... I don't know the ins and outs, but I don't think manufacturers can just sell an 80% car that translates to something that would be a daily driver. Getting something like that titled, registered, and insured also sounds fun. I think most people inclined to DIY stuff to this level just builds/rebuilds an old car or truck with existing paperwork and parts. |
"Sometimes, the grass is greener because it's on a septic system."
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
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Originally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: Yeah... I don't know the ins and outs, but I don't think manufacturers can just sell an 80% car that translates to something that would be a daily driver. Getting something like that titled, registered, and insured also sounds fun. I think most people inclined to DIY stuff to this level just builds/rebuilds an old car or truck with existing paperwork and parts. Originally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: Originally Posted By OregonShooter: Originally Posted By Emoto: Maybe this already exists, but passenger cars need some sort of exemption from all of the fed nonsense if you build it yourself from a "kit" even if the assembly the buyer performs is hardly anything. The feds make everything more expensive. This already exists. The manufacturer can sell you a kit without an engine. Companies like Factory Five sell complete "rollers". I'm not sure if part of the compliance specifically has to due with "replicas." Yeah... I don't know the ins and outs, but I don't think manufacturers can just sell an 80% car that translates to something that would be a daily driver. Getting something like that titled, registered, and insured also sounds fun. I think most people inclined to DIY stuff to this level just builds/rebuilds an old car or truck with existing paperwork and parts. I’d like a dummies guide that sorts it all out. I remember hearing that they passed a law that lets companies like factory five sell completed vehicles in low volume in addition to the kits. I’ve never understood the aftermarket chassis game either. It seems like some people just assume an existing VIN and others “create” a new car. That’s what I’d do if I had the money, buy some high end chassis that just needs the body swapped and finish work for that. Instant resto mod. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a71667299/reo-industries-runabout-aims-to-simplify-the-truck-market/ The rights to the REO name changed hands via sales and mergers over the decades, before landing in the hands of the REO Industries founder and CEO, Zach De Bernardi, who secured the trademark for the brand just last month. The new auto executive says he didn't set out to revive the brand in particular, but he knew that heritage and history are hard to come by in the automotive space; the fact that REO's own history lined up with his mission only made the match more natural.  |
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Originally Posted By Ayada: Let's see it get at least the tiniest bit of traction first before calling it an Elio, right now this is more reminiscent of the wave of small EV truck concepts we saw in 2022-2023. Alpha Wolf is the one that I always think of, and where did that end up? Biggest difference here is attracting the "I wanted a Slate but with a gas motor" crew and with a $25 deposit I'm sure they'll pack in a few hardbody enthusiasts who have no intention on following through but can dream for a little while. They had an actual site set up with pictures and everything, and then it vanished when they couldn't get US approval. |
"Beware of old men. They may have killed braver men than you." TontoGoldstein
"America is at that awkward stage; it's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
"America is at that awkward stage; it's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
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Originally Posted By VVinci: Mahindra essentially shut down their US operations that would have commercialized anything here beyond a UTV segment entrant, which is what the Roxor is. Part of the shutdown was due to COVID panic, part was transition in upper management (enforced by rigid Indian retirement laws), and part was corporate politics. Originally Posted By VVinci: Originally Posted By Alacrity: Mentioned since you've previously indicated some concern about consumer side compliance. Tho this past week may have degraded my normally reliable recall. But yea, like Cummins, there's gonna be restricted markets. CARB states (acquaintance in CO mentioned it was a no go for his Scout) , areas with active testing, some specific State statutory barriers (oddly both WVA and TX come to mind). But I'd also assume that Mahindra would market the crate engine as an on road solution. So internal compliance peeps and regulatory encouragement - would follow Cummins example and cert to some base on-road emissions Tier. As it sits, almost certain it's imported under off road, UTV regime - which I believe is still treated as ATVs. Or I've been wrong for quite a bit Unsure if it arrives as a completed unit or assembled here. Strongly suspect the latter. I'm also unsure how emissions impacts and intersects specifically, given its crate sales.Paths around some of that. Depending on risk aversion. Mahindra got some attention when they arrived. I'm sure there's interests still willing and able to complicate their situation. All that costs. Mahindra may have looked at the market and decided that direct competition with Cummins (whose intro in the States was an outgrowth of foreign capacity, not a primary market) and to a smaller extent DieselToys, doesn't make sense for them. Especially as Mahindra is involved with selling UTV units and repower isn't a gig they want to invest resources in. As I said, given its outside their core and may create situations adverse to their main biz, I could see some built in reluctance. But, outside Mukesh Adani and the now deceased Ratan Tata, I find Indian business leadership often inscrutable. Mahindra essentially shut down their US operations that would have commercialized anything here beyond a UTV segment entrant, which is what the Roxor is. Part of the shutdown was due to COVID panic, part was transition in upper management (enforced by rigid Indian retirement laws), and part was corporate politics. Peeps claiming Mahindra never had real interest in US auto markets, then the entire series of events, starting with the Technical Center after Global's failures, never made much sense to me. Realize initially the public word, ostensibly, indicating access to the States engineering market, extending projects to 24 hour daily cycles, and providing contract engineering services - buzz was a step towards entering the North American market. Then the billion or two at the Auburn Facility. That seemed ambitious for merely CKD import and UTV assembly. I thought I'd recalled public indications MANA was go to full on US presence - assumed Korean platforms/XUV not the commercial stuff Global pooched - and on soil assembly at Auburn eventually. The veering of original plans you lay out makes more sense. Especially in light of the realignment/consolidation - to old Pontiac Central? @Zukguy - as I touched on earlier the first Mahindra effort was mismanagement of a legit intent, highlighting the difficulty. No deposits taken. Others like Bricklin claimed his Chery effort was hampered by CEO Pierre Gagnon - tho former MitsuNA CEO - he didn't have the chops for startup. Took that as import and regulatory aspects. Crosslander was funding and importer. Bremach got doomed by Ukraine - it was Russian UAZ. TVR - like much that doomed many brands already in - couldn't get by FMVSS and Emission changes economically. Honda's CTDi (at least the I4 and maybe a new V6) was pretty well along towards Indiana production . . . until they decided it didn't warrant further development - read expenditures. Mazda - as they tend to - pressed forward hoping their technical solutions would translate to market success. They got 1 model year out. GM didn't get far with the Cruze, Terrain and Equinox. Few realize the option existed. Poofed after 2 or 3 model years. These were all viewed as viable decisions. Tho some most certainly more constrained and with a less steady hand on the tiller. With diesel VAG kinda fucked everybody, but Europe was fucking around widely. The landscape changed. Mfgs got caught and things went away. Similarly lots of moving pieces with importation/conformity in the States. That kinda touches on the kit market but maybe another post. This is getting a bit much. Still mfgs/import arms that don't have experience, and the internal earned competency, underestimates the hump. So good intentions meet the solid wall of Federal Regulatory Law. Might look like a scam - and in Global's case with Mahindra, you could say franchise dealers lined up may have been burned. But you could say the same for Saab and Sterling folding. Mfgs abandoning the States like Renault, Peugeot - Land Rover and Alfa the first time. Even Fiat, Alfa (again), or Infiniti are verging on non viable. Maybe Chrysler too. Yugo fucked everyone . Genesis just fucked the dealers that didn't get standalones, after demanding big investments at general Hyundai outlets prior. Makers and product go out all the time. Only in rare cases like Europa/Gwagen mentioned a few times (and *cough*Motorex*cough* ) do indies make it in at all. That said at least one major, if legacy, auto rag reports Zach is empowered or owns the REO name. It bears mentioning C/D, R&T and MT aren't what they used to be. Some things also aren't what I'd expect from a serious effort. But the dude may be a scrapper hoping to score some funding and carve a niche. Tough tough path. I don't see this ending with on-road product available to the public. From what I've seen no real industry connections. But who am I to kill dreams    |
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Zach's making the rounds. His play has got the car press calling and getting him pub. LOL Smart move. AMERI-Kei !!  I love this MF'ers chutzpah! Speaking with Road & Track, Bernardi described the vehicles as occupying the "Ameri-Kei" class, hence their compact size. Basic models will ship without features such as a radio or even finished door cards and will offer an abundance of accessories as optional extras. REO is also adopting an interesting open-source approach for the project. As such, buyers will have access to crucial vehicle details that manufacturers would usually keep under lock and key. The company hopes this will encourage owners to develop their own parts and accessories. If these parts meet REO's requirements, they could even be listed for sale on its website. https://www.carscoops.com/2026/06/reo-industries-runabout-pricing/ He's a Toyota car collector (him publishing his fleet would do wonders for PR). it's all gonna be open source with Toyota inspiration! Love it! Saying all the right things    Waiitng for the blyat tho.   |
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Originally Posted By Alacrity: Zach's making the rounds. His play has got the car press calling and getting him pub. LOL Smart move. AMERI-Kei !! https://media4.giphy.com/media/90F8aUepslB84/200.webp?cid=8dc8958ch65gs5qh7agpdbkohpjebco7oehzl6iprw9xh2i5&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200.webp&ct=g I love this MF'ers chutzpah! He's a Toyota car collector (him publishing his fleet would do wonders for PR). it's all gonna be open source with Toyota inspiration! Love it! Saying all the right things Waiitng for the blyat tho. So you're saying I shouldn't have panic canceled my reservation?
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Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords may not be a basis for a system of government, but strange men distributing Kalashnikovs from the back of a Toyota certainly can be.
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Originally Posted By LoBrau: So you're saying I shouldn't have panic canceled my reservation? Originally Posted By LoBrau: Originally Posted By Alacrity: Zach's making the rounds. His play has got the car press calling and getting him pub. LOL Smart move. AMERI-Kei !! https://media4.giphy.com/media/90F8aUepslB84/200.webp?cid=8dc8958ch65gs5qh7agpdbkohpjebco7oehzl6iprw9xh2i5&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200.webp&ct=g I love this MF'ers chutzpah! He's a Toyota car collector (him publishing his fleet would do wonders for PR). it's all gonna be open source with Toyota inspiration! Love it! Saying all the right things Waiitng for the blyat tho. So you're saying I shouldn't have panic canceled my reservation? . His RE enterprise seems legit (not going to dox him but it's public), tho hardly the scale I'd expect to see launching him into this. Also this is solidifying for me, it's a very singular effort. Maybe he creates some buzz and an angel (or family wealth) comes into play. But I can't see anywhere near the upside given the capital requirements. So I'm doubtful the endgame is rubber on the road. Perhaps he's a bit naive. Seeing where he is, I would have redoubled my efforts in the Real Estate world. But expanding outside residential brokerage services. Development and multi-family offer a lot more for the level of commitment he'll need. I'm not a life coach tho, or his mentor, but I see more movement from mfg to RE than the opposite. I do wish him luck tho. |
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Originally Posted By DirtyDirk: Wow, you want a loaded vehicle, Power windows, power door locks, A/C, keyed entry. I'd doubt you'll see most of that stuff. On a small vehicle like that you don't need power windows and locks, it's easy to reach over and operate them. I suspect A/C might be an option, after all vast majority of Americans are too soft to go without. I'd love a no A/C vehicle, I only use the A/C in my car now when the wife is along and then only if its over 80 outside. 2 55 air baby!! Laughs in 109F ambient. Fuck yes AC is mandatory. |
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Originally Posted By NoDakWolfPack: I drive a 2011 Nissan versa Base. Crank windows, 5spd manual, no cruise, not even a temp gauge. But it’s got AC! So I feel like a king. Why do so many in this thread say no one wants this kind of simplicity? Because actual sales data says they don't and the fact that the Nissan Versa was cancelled due to low sales despite being the cheapest new car in the US is proof. Not enough people agree with you to make a vehicle viable. The vast majority of buyers that cannot afford a new luxury vehicle will choose to buy a used vehicle instead of a stripped new one. Manufacturers sell new cars to new car buyers. New car buyers want more vehicle content not less so new vehicles moved up market. |
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Originally Posted By OregonShooter: Because actual sales data says they don't and the fact that the Nissan Versa was cancelled due to low sales despite being the cheapest new car in the US is proof. Not enough people agree with you to make a vehicle viable. The vast majority of buyers that cannot afford a new luxury vehicle will choose to buy a used vehicle instead of a stripped new one. Manufacturers sell new cars to new car buyers. New car buyers want more vehicle content not less so new vehicles moved up market. That’s all well and good, and I understand not everyone wants to row their own. But there’s no way that government regulation and planned obsolescence isn’t at least partly to blame. $20k for a car is still obscene, even new, even with a conventional automatic. The cofactors that sedans are still effectively no longer made is a crime against 80% of America. |
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: I'm too fat for a Kei car  Keep in mind Kei truck class by Japanese statute is limited to 3.4M length and just under 1.5 M wide. That's like no more than 130 inches and 60 inches if top of my head math is right. Actually a bit tighter I think. Specs on this REO - longer than Slate, which is 175". Width is 74". Unsure about wheelbase but appears packaged out traditionally. So maybe 110". That's pretty close to 90s Ranger specs. Little shorter, much wider, SWB Rangers were under 110" wheelbase. So AMERI-KEITM is more a descriptive moniker for a very spartan, built to a price effort - than constrained by some strict, exterior dimensional limitation. It's roughly as large as Slate. How it packages out the interior and what actual WB is yet to be seen. From what little I've gathered this is a response to Trump and this Admin bandying about the the "beautiful little cars". Problem is there been no regulatory movement. It's only been 6 months but this is going to require Congress. Or this gets built as an LSV under current regs. That's how Stella is planning to import Toplino. Once into owners hands it subject to various forms of statutory bending. Like eliminating Roxor 45 mph speed cap or similar mods to E-bikes. FWIW seems there's been updates and expansion to the website. Or I missed things first time around. Attached File This was there but I don't think anyone has referenced. We'll know soon enough if they/he can at least keep to schedule. That's . . . Ambitious. |
Tertium non datur
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Originally Posted By OregonShooter: Because actual sales data says they don't and the fact that the Nissan Versa was cancelled due to low sales despite being the cheapest new car in the US is proof. Not enough people agree with you to make a vehicle viable. The vast majority of buyers that cannot afford a new luxury vehicle will choose to buy a used vehicle instead of a stripped new one. Manufacturers sell new cars to new car buyers. New car buyers want more vehicle content not less so new vehicles moved up market. The Nissan sales were up 20% in 2025. You do not want to buy a vehicle so nobody else should. House expensive, cars expensive and a lot of people priced out of what was normal life. |
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Originally Posted By Emoto: Maybe this already exists, but passenger cars need some sort of exemption from all of the fed nonsense if you build it yourself from a "kit" even if the assembly the buyer performs is hardly anything. The feds make everything more expensive. Some states will let you register and plate just about anything. Rail buggies and dirt bikes can easily be plated in Ohio. |
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Originally Posted By AKSig: Maybe 2-3 people out of all the bullshitters here that said they would buy a basic bitch truck if they could will get one. Im not buying any vehicles right now. But if my daily driver died i would look at this. When i say i would buy something its gonna be "if i need it" not "im rishing out to finance it" |
The mountains are calling, and I must go. -John Muir
No matter howw much you hate the media, it's not enough.
-McGuy
No matter howw much you hate the media, it's not enough.
-McGuy
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Originally Posted By NoDakWolfPack: That's all well and good, and I understand not everyone wants to row their own. But there's no way that government regulation and planned obsolescence isn't at least partlyt to blame. $20k for a car is still obscene, even new, even with a conventional automatic. The cofactors that sedans are still effectively no longer made is a crime against 80% of America. Originally Posted By NoDakWolfPack: Originally Posted By OregonShooter: Because actual sales data says they don't and the fact that the Nissan Versa was cancelled due to low sales despite being the cheapest new car in the US is proof. Not enough people agree with you to make a vehicle viable. The vast majority of buyers that cannot afford a new luxury vehicle will choose to buy a used vehicle instead of a stripped new one. Manufacturers sell new cars to new car buyers. New car buyers want more vehicle content not less so new vehicles moved up market. That's all well and good, and I understand not everyone wants to row their own. But there's no way that government regulation and planned obsolescence isn't at least partlyt to blame. $20k for a car is still obscene, even new, even with a conventional automatic. The cofactors that sedans are still effectively no longer made is a crime against 80% of America. The issue is at the low margins these models - like Mirage, Spark, Versa - provide, the volumes are insufficient in the States. Those models were derivative of smalls and superminis elsewhere - and banked on those global volumes. When Escort moved 350k units peak and topped the charts @ 325-350k units in a third of the years of 80s, being the best selling car in America had meaning for mfgs. For perspective Camry has sold. 300k plus, improving since going exclusively Hybrid, RAV4 encroached on 500K last year and CRV 400k+ plus. Crosstrek, Trax around 200k, Corolla and Civic 250k. Those are about as close as you get to smallish (for the States) high volume affordable models. Fit, Spark, Mirage, Sonic, Fiesta Yaris all sold in that mid teens range a decade ago. But they were immune to sales success. Scion tried to lever the demand you allege, and Toyota paid for it. But yes automakers optimize their model selection towards profit, tho I think you overstate planned obsolescence given the 300k Yaris' I see on the road. One famous guy here. But as Whiskerz aptly labeled "Shitbox" measures, they just don't work for the States anymore. Some of that is better options, relative affluence and to an extent, better affordability of larger classes. In Japan economic realities and structural differences (tax, infrastructure, preference) create a market for Kei and Small cars. In Europe taxes (15-30% or more in some national markets) and op costs create a demand for efficient and cheaper models. In both, small and Japan micro cars are top sellers. Like almost all the top 25. So mfgs could import those models - and have - to the States. They've just failed to be profitable enough recently. So they went away. $15k a decade ago is roughly $21.5k today. Tho peeps hit on rising cost, Japanese mid-sized sedans - the class that maintains its cohesion best over time - have increased slightly less than the rate of inflation since the 80s. Tho they are larger, more powerful, better equipped, more efficient and, somewhat dependent on brand, improved QRD. Crossovers on similar platforms are priced comparably, tho direct comparison isn't useful since the segment was empty. Given the reduced operating costs and better longevity - this is an effective reduction of total cost over a longer life which allows more purchasing power. This gets reflected in a shift up car size class. But something occurred when BEVs and PHEVs were subsidized in Europe. People bought a class or two up instead of just pocketing the credit. Japan is doing similar with a $8100 credit - and tho too early to tell, Tesla 3 and Y are expected to benefit as they have elsewhere. Neither are particularly small. There's also no regulatory advantage (CAFE footprint calc) to Tesla BEV CUV here - but that is the form factor buyers prefer. So not sure I buy into "co-factors" as a major influence to Sedan disfavoring. Plus Camry continues its top 10 run as Toyota has continued focused investment to keep the model popular and relevant. They are very good at sussing out consumer preferences that trigger buys. A good, deridingly vocal slice of GD was certain all Hybrid meant the Camry was done. Sucks but Accord line at Marysville is at half capacity. Altima's gone, Not due to anything but Honda and Nissan's choices. So no crime and no one is being arrested I'd argue that economic conditions - especially home and vehicle financing costs, forced people into Escorts in the 80s. As exterior factors in Post-Bubble Japan and tax laden Europe influence purchases downward there. It's gotten better in the States since Carter Malaise - tho few eating a steak in their increasingly larger house, watching 500 channels or a first run movie on one of their 75" TVs in air conditioned comfort may realize. Which is why shitboxes, to use GD parlance, have gone away. With Slate and this we're gonna find out if consumer preference has been missed or if vocal trends have misled nascent efforts. We should check in periodically as we did with the imminent collapse of the German BEV market - which hasn't, over 3 years on. |
Tertium non datur
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Originally Posted By Atropian_Defector: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/523616/IMG_5523_jpeg-3782048.JPG 98 frontier here, 4cyl 5spd. So base model it only came with 1 mirror and no radio from the factory. 240k on the clock, should last til the REO gets released if it gets released My brother bought it new, only new vehicle hes ever owned, and I paid his $1500 for it a few years ago. I had driven it to Alaska and back in 2008/9 and love this little thing. Originally Posted By Atropian_Defector: Originally Posted By Deerhurst: https://i.imgur.com/JJ1ABZmh.jpeg Single cab, short box, 4wd, 5 speed, no AC, no cruise, manual windows and locks. Does have carpet. I honestly enjoy driving it. Looking at some form of spray in bed liner, a light window tint and I'm currently waiting on a Gen 5 rotor pack for an Eaton supercharger for it. It'll have an AC compressor in it until I either plumb it as an air compressor or make an idler to replace it since it's required for the supercharger belt routing. I've had it since ~2007. Drove it to work today vs take the Audi. Some of us put our money where our mouth is. I'd drive that old truck too. It's pretty! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/523616/IMG_5523_jpeg-3782048.JPG 98 frontier here, 4cyl 5spd. So base model it only came with 1 mirror and no radio from the factory. 240k on the clock, should last til the REO gets released if it gets released My brother bought it new, only new vehicle hes ever owned, and I paid his $1500 for it a few years ago. I had driven it to Alaska and back in 2008/9 and love this little thing. I had one of those only short bed. It had 100k+ when I bought it. When I did the oil changes it was always clear, looked like new oil coming out. Only vehicle I ever had like that. |
The system is mostly not rigged. LOL
"You had one asshole, your boss decided it wasn't needed."
"You had one asshole, your boss decided it wasn't needed."
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Originally Posted By USMC7382: It’s $25, I’ve wasted money on worse things. I’d like the four door and hopefully a bench seat up front and manual transmission. Fully refundable. If they don't go tits up first. |
The system is mostly not rigged. LOL
"You had one asshole, your boss decided it wasn't needed."
"You had one asshole, your boss decided it wasn't needed."
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Blah Blah Blah ... Toyota DNA ... Blah Blah. Yeah sure. But not the GOOD Toyota DNA. Can't order a up an 8RC from Toyota, and even if you could, it can't be imported. No, you will get the explodey DNA. Academic really, because FMVSS and the EPA will drive the price of this to 40k before you see one. IF it's not a scam. |
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Originally Posted By Ligore: The Nissan sales were up 20% in 2025. You do not want to buy a vehicle so nobody else should. House expensive, cars expensive and a lot of people priced out of what was normal life. Originally Posted By Ligore: Originally Posted By OregonShooter: Because actual sales data says they don't and the fact that the Nissan Versa was cancelled due to low sales despite being the cheapest new car in the US is proof. Not enough people agree with you to make a vehicle viable. The vast majority of buyers that cannot afford a new luxury vehicle will choose to buy a used vehicle instead of a stripped new one. Manufacturers sell new cars to new car buyers. New car buyers want more vehicle content not less so new vehicles moved up market. The Nissan sales were up 20% in 2025. You do not want to buy a vehicle so nobody else should. House expensive, cars expensive and a lot of people priced out of what was normal life. Bit over a decade ago that nameplate did 150k regularly. It was a class volume leader - mostly due to price and subpar credit acceptance (which is another aspect mfgs prefer to avoid), but competitors consistently did more than Versa did last year. Where did that demand go? What's forcing people from buying low cost small cars? Because despite these near conspiratorial lamentation, if those models peak volumes were still intact, so would their availability. |
Tertium non datur
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Originally Posted By _DR: Those were actually made by Mitsubishi or Isuzu IIRC, and were pretty tough. Originally Posted By _DR: Originally Posted By toby1: I' be happy with a version of the old Chevy LUV truck. I ran the wheels off of mine years ago. Those were actually made by Mitsubishi or Isuzu IIRC, and were pretty tough. Isuzu. |
The system is mostly not rigged. LOL
"You had one asshole, your boss decided it wasn't needed."
"You had one asshole, your boss decided it wasn't needed."
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Originally Posted By AKSig:
Maybe 2-3 people out of all the bullshitters here that said they would buy a basic bitch truck if they could will get one. I like my 2022 Colorado Z71, but it is expensive to maintain and beyond me in most repair needs. |