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Posted: 4/7/2023 10:42:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Yes. Be another good idea to get her some quality training - which could be as expensive as a new gun.
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Posted: 4/7/2023 10:47:23 PM EDT
[#2]
A lot of FFLs won't do that. Name of purchaser not matching who is coming to pick it up tends to be a red flag for them.
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Posted: 4/7/2023 10:47:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. Be another good idea to get her some quality training - which could be as expensive as a new gun. I totally agree.I’ll suggest it, but that’s about all a person can do. |
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Posted: 4/7/2023 10:48:01 PM EDT
[#4]
I don't know about various different laws - but in Texas I think it is legal within family. Gifts are, being repaid for a gift is iffy, maybe. But I know people who have bought guns for family this way at gun shows - where the relatives would have needed to drive 100's of miles and the gun would no longer be available.
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Posted: 4/7/2023 10:49:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of FFLs won't do that. Name of purchaser not matching who is coming to pick it up tends to be a red flag for them. I have wondered if that’d trigger anything from a local FFL. It makes sense though. |
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Posted: 4/7/2023 10:49:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Sounds like a gift. Gifts are good.
What would be a straw is when the purchaser papers the transaction to conceal the actual recipient. |
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Posted: 4/7/2023 10:51:06 PM EDT
[#7]
As far as I know, it's only a straw purchase if the ultimate possessor is a prohibited person.
BTW - I don't necessarily, from a fundamental 2A standpoint, agree with it. That is just my understanding of the rules. |
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Posted: 4/7/2023 10:51:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Easiest to have mom send money and let sister buy the gun.
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Posted: 4/7/2023 10:52:15 PM EDT
[#9]
As an FFL,
Whoever's name is on the order slip is who needs to pick it up. She can legally buy for her child as long as she has no knowledge of any disqualifiers that would not allow them to own one. Easiest would be to do do the ship to / billing separate. Ship to your sisters name. Billing info your moms so card works. (Or you can try using your sisters name (If last name same, in billing also, most cards will let it go through). |
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Posted: 4/7/2023 10:55:13 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As far as I know, it's only a straw purchase if the ultimate possessor is a prohibited person. BTW - I don't necessarily, from a fundamental 2A standpoint, agree with it. That is just my understanding of the rules. No, It is a straw purchase if the intent to not have the individual (end user) do a background check. Regardless of if they are prohibited or not. You cannot buy and give a firearm for someone else, unless it is direct family. Now you can "pay for it" as long as the end user is the one who is filling out the background. (There is some debate about this now tho). |
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Posted: 4/7/2023 11:02:43 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, It is a straw purchase if the intent to not have the individual (end user) do a background check. Regardless of if they are prohibited or not. You cannot buy and give a firearm for someone else, unless it is direct family. Now you can "pay for it" as long as the end user is the one who is filling out the background. (There is some debate about this now tho). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: As far as I know, it's only a straw purchase if the ultimate possessor is a prohibited person. BTW - I don't necessarily, from a fundamental 2A standpoint, agree with it. That is just my understanding of the rules. No, It is a straw purchase if the intent to not have the individual (end user) do a background check. Regardless of if they are prohibited or not. You cannot buy and give a firearm for someone else, unless it is direct family. Now you can "pay for it" as long as the end user is the one who is filling out the background. (There is some debate about this now tho). Even worse than that, if you buy the gun and do the 4473, but are really buying it on someone else’s behalf, even if you have the other person do a 4473 to transfer that is a straw buy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abramski_v._United_States If OP’s mom pays for a gun online but the daughter/sister does the 4473 and the daughter/sister is the one keeping the gun, all is well. But it might be a red flag for the ffl. |
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Posted: 4/7/2023 11:16:19 PM EDT
[#12]
self delete just incase
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Posted: 4/7/2023 11:19:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Easiest to have mom send money and let sister buy the gun. That would seem to be a lot easier. |
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Posted: 4/7/2023 11:23:45 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That would seem to be a lot easier. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Easiest to have mom send money and let sister buy the gun. That would seem to be a lot easier. Thats probably the way to go |
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Posted: 4/7/2023 11:45:33 PM EDT
[#15]
<-- FFL, this is the way to do it.
Quote HistoryQuoted: As an FFL, Whoever's name is on the order slip is who needs to pick it up. She can legally buy for her child as long as she has no knowledge of any disqualifiers that would not allow them to own one. Easiest would be to do do the ship to / billing separate. Ship to your sisters name. Billing info your moms so card works. (Or you can try using your sisters name (If last name same, in billing also, most cards will let it go through). |
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Posted: 4/7/2023 11:55:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of FFLs won't do that. Name of purchaser not matching who is coming to pick it up tends to be a red flag for them. I'm an ffl. I ain't doing that transfer. |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:00:11 AM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:03:15 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of FFLs won't do that. Name of purchaser not matching who is coming to pick it up tends to be a red flag for them. I'd deny the sale as policy. Have her buy it, and just put sister's name in all name fields instead of her own. Not an issue. |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:07:24 AM EDT
[#19]
Give her a gift certificate to the FFL.
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:10:29 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As far as I know, it's only a straw purchase if the ultimate possessor is a prohibited person. BTW - I don't necessarily, from a fundamental 2A standpoint, agree with it. That is just my understanding of the rules. That is not true it is a common misconception. You can absolutely have a straw purchase between two legal purchasers. However gifts are legal. I don't believe what is described would be a straw purchase though I suppose it could be argued it is because your sister did not pay for it and she is doing the paperwork. It would probably be better if your mom did the paperwork and just gave it to her provided they are in the same state. Or gave her money to buy the gun with herself. |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:11:29 AM EDT
[#21]
Academy, sports and outdoors will only transfer the firearm to the person whose name is on the invoice and then charge you $60 for the transfer fee. I work at Academy.
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:11:37 AM EDT
[#22]
Gift cards are a pretty easy solution. If mom and sistere are in the same state she can just buy it and give it to her.
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:11:43 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, It is a straw purchase if the intent to not have the individual (end user) do a background check. Regardless of if they are prohibited or not. You cannot buy and give a firearm for someone else, unless it is direct family. Now you can "pay for it" as long as the end user is the one who is filling out the background. (There is some debate about this now tho). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: As far as I know, it's only a straw purchase if the ultimate possessor is a prohibited person. BTW - I don't necessarily, from a fundamental 2A standpoint, agree with it. That is just my understanding of the rules. No, It is a straw purchase if the intent to not have the individual (end user) do a background check. Regardless of if they are prohibited or not. You cannot buy and give a firearm for someone else, unless it is direct family. Now you can "pay for it" as long as the end user is the one who is filling out the background. (There is some debate about this now tho). Not true a gift is explicitly described as legal in the 4473 instructions there is no requirement that it is family. |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:12:46 AM EDT
[#24]
I will also say, since the new 4473 has come out in the first seven days of this month we have had 19 people answer question 21B incorrectly and we have to deny the sale. The new wording on the 4473 is quite difficult for the average person to understand apparently.
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:14:14 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is not true it is a common misconception. You can absolutely have a straw purchase between two legal purchasers. However gifts are legal. I don't believe what is described would be a straw purchase though I suppose it could be argued it is because your sister did not pay for it and she is doing the paperwork. It would probably be better if your mom did the paperwork and just gave it to her provided they are in the same state. Or gave her money to buy the gun with herself. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: As far as I know, it's only a straw purchase if the ultimate possessor is a prohibited person. BTW - I don't necessarily, from a fundamental 2A standpoint, agree with it. That is just my understanding of the rules. That is not true it is a common misconception. You can absolutely have a straw purchase between two legal purchasers. However gifts are legal. I don't believe what is described would be a straw purchase though I suppose it could be argued it is because your sister did not pay for it and she is doing the paperwork. It would probably be better if your mom did the paperwork and just gave it to her provided they are in the same state. Or gave her money to buy the gun with herself. Issue is name on the invoice for the FFL who receives it. Plain and simple. |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:16:38 AM EDT
[#26]
Your mom does the paperwork. Then gifts it to your sister.
Perfectly legal. It's right in the instructions of the 4473 which nobody reads.   As you can see, bona fide gifts do not constitute a straw purchase. |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:16:45 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will also say, since the new 4473 has come out in the first seven days of this month we have had 19 people answer question 21B incorrectly and we have to deny the sale. The new wording on the 4473 is quite difficult for the average person to understand apparently. The amount of stupid fucks who can't understand basic fucking English, has me wanting to throat punch every customer who's confused. I had no patience with one guy, and when he asked me for help on that question, I asked him which word he needed a definition of to understand the question. ETA: Enough people on here know me IRL, and where I work, that they know, if I go that level on a dipshit, they earned it. |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:20:19 AM EDT
[#28]
Not everyone should have a gun. I’d propose a German Shepherd.
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:27:27 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of FFLs won't do that. Name of purchaser not matching who is coming to pick it up tends to be a red flag for them. |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:33:52 AM EDT
[#30]
Your mom can buy the gun as a gift and give it to her if she isn't a prohibited person.
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:34:19 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will also say, since the new 4473 has come out in the first seven days of this month we have had 19 people answer question 21B incorrectly and we have to deny the sale. The new wording on the 4473 is quite difficult for the average person to understand apparently. |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:37:37 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Easiest to have mom send money and let sister buy the gun. This. But it wouldn't be a straw purchase since she's not a prohibited person. |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:38:48 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is 21B? I don't have a 4473 in front of me Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I will also say, since the new 4473 has come out in the first seven days of this month we have had 19 people answer question 21B incorrectly and we have to deny the sale. The new wording on the 4473 is quite difficult for the average person to understand apparently. 21b: “Do you intend to purchase or acquire any firearm listed on this form and any continuation sheet(s) or ammunition, for sale of other disposition to any person described in questions 21(c)-(m) or to a person described in question 21.n.1 who does not fall within a nonimmigrant exception?” |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:40:57 AM EDT
[#34]
21 c doesn't confuse anyone.
21.c.: “Do you intend to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm listed on this form and any continuation sheet(s) or ammunition in furtherance of any felony or other offense punishable by imprisonment for a term of more than one year, a Federal crime of terrorism, or a drug trafficking offense?” |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:44:14 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. But it wouldn't be a straw purchase since she's not a prohibited person. Not true. That was tested in court in 2014 (Abramski v. United States). It's a straw purchase whether or not they are prohibited. |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 12:53:39 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your mom does the paperwork. Then gifts it to your sister. Perfectly legal. It's right in the instructions of the 4473 which nobody reads. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/467079/Screenshot_20230408_001516_Samsung_Notes-2774688.jpg As you can see, bona fide gifts do not constitute a straw purchase. Can only directly gift to someone in the same state and OP has not said it that's the case with his mom and sister. |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 1:01:18 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of FFLs won't do that. Name of purchaser not matching who is coming to pick it up tends to be a red flag for them. This plus if the firearm is ordered online via credit card, then there is an electronic trail that the person who paid for the firearm is not the person taking possession of the firearm. |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 1:26:21 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can only directly gift to someone in the same state and OP has not said it that's the case with his mom and sister. That doesn't sound right. I think you are missing something. |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 3:28:59 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of FFLs won't do that. Name of purchaser not matching who is coming to pick it up tends to be a red flag for them. Mom is buying it as a gift, sister is doing the tranfer. Nothing illeagal about that . |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 7:08:30 AM EDT
[#40]
Somebody should be taking her to pick out her own gun, anyway.
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Posted: 4/8/2023 7:17:53 AM EDT
[#41]
I would call the FFL doing the transfer to check with them. It may be legal but it's best to not throw surprise's when you are doing the paperwork.
If y'all live in the same town why not just go give her a gun? |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 7:25:28 AM EDT
[#42]
A gift is a gift. Your mom can buy it and give it to her. If they are both at the shop, then your sister should do the paper work.
Why do y'all ask legality questions where its stored in perpetuity? |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 7:28:40 AM EDT
[#43]
never a straw purchaser if the end user gets the background check.
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Posted: 4/8/2023 7:28:51 AM EDT
[#44]
I wanted to do that for my daughter but my FFL said no dice. The names must match. I had to put it in my name then transfer it to my daughter.
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Posted: 4/8/2023 7:29:04 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can only directly gift to someone in the same state and OP has not said it that's the case with his mom and sister. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Your mom does the paperwork. Then gifts it to your sister. Perfectly legal. It's right in the instructions of the 4473 which nobody reads. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/467079/Screenshot_20230408_001516_Samsung_Notes-2774688.jpg As you can see, bona fide gifts do not constitute a straw purchase. Can only directly gift to someone in the same state and OP has not said it that's the case with his mom and sister. Thats why you don't ask these fucking questions on a monitored website. Op joined in 2006, surely he can sell or gift one of his collection, take the guesswork out. |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 7:33:18 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 21 c doesn't confuse anyone. 21.c.: “Do you intend to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm listed on this form and any continuation sheet(s) or ammunition in furtherance of any felony or other offense punishable by imprisonment for a term of more than one year, a Federal crime of terrorism, or a drug trafficking offense?” What a stupid fucking question and if you answer yes, you're a stupid person. |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 7:33:26 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is 21B? I don't have a 4473 in front of me Why the fuck is sale of ammo on the 4473? |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 7:34:06 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: So a little back story here, my sister is cleaning herself up (making better choices we’ll say). She doesn’t have a criminal record or anything like that. She recently got an apartment in a not so good part of town. My mom was wanting to buy her a handgun as a home warning gift. Could she legally buy from an online retailer, ship to an FFL and my sister do the paperwork, pay the fee, and take possession? Is your sister an addict and prohibited from owning a firearm on that basis? |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 7:35:20 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A gift is a gift. Your mom can buy it and give it to her. If they are both at the shop, then your sister should do the paper work. Why do y'all ask legality questions where its stored in perpetuity? Except you answered it wrong. 
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Posted: 4/8/2023 7:36:38 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is not true it is a common misconception. You can absolutely have a straw purchase between two legal purchasers. However gifts are legal. I don't believe what is described would be a straw purchase though I suppose it could be argued it is because your sister did not pay for it and she is doing the paperwork. It would probably be better if your mom did the paperwork and just gave it to her provided they are in the same state. Or gave her money to buy the gun with herself. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: As far as I know, it's only a straw purchase if the ultimate possessor is a prohibited person. BTW - I don't necessarily, from a fundamental 2A standpoint, agree with it. That is just my understanding of the rules. That is not true it is a common misconception. You can absolutely have a straw purchase between two legal purchasers. However gifts are legal. I don't believe what is described would be a straw purchase though I suppose it could be argued it is because your sister did not pay for it and she is doing the paperwork. It would probably be better if your mom did the paperwork and just gave it to her provided they are in the same state. Or gave her money to buy the gun with herself. My father has purchased a couple guns for me in the shop. If I'm with him, I do a check so it doesn't look like a straw purchase. He paid. |
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