[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIG “ The P320. It ends today.” (Page 55 of 142)
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Quoted: I will buy a m17 if anyone is selling.  Quoted: Quoted: Yep they are worthless these days Holding onto my two to see if a recall or something comes out eventually. I will buy a m17 if anyone is selling. I have a p320c 9mm and a full size .40, the .40 is less than worthless these days 
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Quoted: I just spent the last two days reading every post in this topic so far. Interesting to see the Sig cheerleaders slowly dwindle down. Just curious what direction the force would need to be applied to over come the sear springs and to trip the striker? In my mind hitting the muzzle end of the gun in an upward direction could possibly cause it. I also agree on what was said about 10 pages ago about the sear springs, not being strong enough and the timing being off for them to react to catch the safety sear. And as suit hands has demonstrated with his pointy thingy, there’s definitely an issue with the striker safety block. It seems like every so often all of these bad things will come in perfect alignment of some sort, and the uncommanded discharge occurs. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The 1911 has the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer loaded in tension, held back by the sear. If the sear fails, the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer will do so and it will fire. The P320 has the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer loaded in tension, held back by the sear. If the sear and firing pin block fail, the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer will do so and it will fire. I really don't see how the 1911 transferring the energy through an inertial firing pin makes any difference. Just curious what direction the force would need to be applied to over come the sear springs and to trip the striker? In my mind hitting the muzzle end of the gun in an upward direction could possibly cause it. I also agree on what was said about 10 pages ago about the sear springs, not being strong enough and the timing being off for them to react to catch the safety sear. And as suit hands has demonstrated with his pointy thingy, there’s definitely an issue with the striker safety block. It seems like every so often all of these bad things will come in perfect alignment of some sort, and the uncommanded discharge occurs. |
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Quoted: Having an https://www.youtube.com/@animagraffs/videos quality 3d modelling of the 320 would be VERY helpful in sorting this stuff out.  Animation of the Sig Sauer P320  Failed To Load Title |
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Quoted: Quoted: Having an https://www.youtube.com/@animagraffs/videos quality 3d modelling of the 320 would be VERY helpful in sorting this stuff out.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j3nGnPrkjI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOawmFLINwgThe first one is a bit more informative but the interactions between all the components isn't quite as clear as it could be. That's a lot better than nothing... |
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I just now got the time to watch the Triad videos and the second video from Three 320s's in a Trenchcoat. It's a lot to take in. I still think the lack of a plunger style FPB is a key element to the problem, but in the original Trenchcoat video, the problem followed the FCU, so it makes sense that there's something going on with that trigger bar disconnect relationship. As for the Triad video, I didn't like that he used a modified, pre-"upgrade" gun for his demonstration, but it did make me wonder two things. First, is there any other pistol that would have failed that test, even with a similar setup? Second, if that test was performed on a P320 exhibiting the striker block failure behavior, would it pop? |
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Quoted: I just now got the time to watch the Triad videos and the second video from Three 320s's in a Trenchcoat. It's a lot to take in. I still think the lack of a plunger style FPB is a key element to the problem, but in the original Trenchcoat video, the problem followed the FCU, so it makes sense that there's something going on with that trigger bar disconnect relationship. As for the Triad video, I didn't like that he used a modified, pre-"upgrade" gun for his demonstration, but it did make me wonder two things. First, is there any other pistol that would have failed that test, even with a similar setup? Second, if that test was performed on a P320 exhibiting the striker block failure behavior, would it pop? The pre-upgrade doesn’t bother me at all because it was voluntary. If they had issued a recall or a mandatory upgrade, I think I would look at it very differently. There are still going to be countless pre-upgraded 320s out in the wild simply because it was voluntary. And I thought it was comical, that although the gun was modified, the person that did the modifying had also claimed that it’s impossible for 320 to fire without the trigger being pulled. I really don’t know how Sig fixes this without it costing a lot of money. But I think the longer they wait, the more painful it’s going to be for them. And other than a range toy, I’m not sure what to do with my X5 Legion. |
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Quoted: The pre-upgrade doesn’t bother me at all because it was voluntary. If they had issued a recall or a mandatory upgrade, I think I would look at it very differently. There are still going to be countless pre-upgraded 320s out in the wild simply because it was voluntary. And I thought it was comical, that although the gun was modified, the person that did the modifying had also claimed that it’s impossible for 320 to fire without the trigger being pulled. I really don’t know how Sig fixes this without it costing a lot of money. But I think the longer they wait, the more painful it’s going to be for them. And other than a range toy, I’m not sure what to do with my X5 Legion. Keep it on your safe. Maybe they come up with a fix, maybe not. Either way, it's a fun little piece of history. |
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Quoted: The pre-upgrade doesn’t bother me at all because it was voluntary. If they had issued a recall or a mandatory upgrade, I think I would look at it very differently. There are still going to be countless pre-upgraded 320s out in the wild simply because it was voluntary. And I thought it was comical, that although the gun was modified, the person that did the modifying had also claimed that it’s impossible for 320 to fire without the trigger being pulled. I really don’t know how Sig fixes this without it costing a lot of money. But I think the longer they wait, the more painful it’s going to be for them. And other than a range toy, I’m not sure what to do with my X5 Legion. Sell it and replace it with a SAO 226 XFive, which is ironically one of the best handguns I've ever handled and shot. |
I saw the Triad video in the other thread, but didn't see it here, so reposting it along with my commentary. Rangemaster’s Bench Episode: How I Created An Uncommanded Discharge In My P320 He uses modified parts and lighter aftermarket safety springs, so it's not 100% proof, but it's pretty convincing in narrowing down what the variables are. Worn sear that holds the fully-cocked firing pin back with less contact. Crudded up gun that makes safety springs have to work harder to push things back into place in the proper time. Shitty, weak springs from shitty Sig QC that can't overcome the crud. Shitty safeties with shitty tolerances because of shitty Sig QC that can't do their job: stop things from moving even if other systems fail. All combine to allow the sear to slip with external movement and the firing pin to bypass all safeties. Boom. Right into your dick. ETA: holster bois on suicide watch. |
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Quoted: I saw the Triad video in the other thread, but didn't see it here, so reposting it along with my commentary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b_Up5Ste9cHe uses modified parts and lighter aftermarket safety springs, so it's not 100% proof, but it's pretty convincing in narrowing down what the variables are. Worn sear that holds the fully-cocked firing pin back with less contact. Crudded up gun that makes safety springs have to work harder to push things back into place in the proper time. Shitty, weak springs from shitty Sig QC that can't overcome the crud. Shitty safeties with shitty tolerances because of shitty Sig QC that can't do their job: stop things from moving even if other systems fail. All combine to allow the sear to slip with external movement and the firing pin to bypass all safeties. Boom. Right into your dick. ETA: holster bois on suicide watch. Properly embedded: Rangemaster’s Bench Episode: How I Created An Uncommanded Discharge In My P320 Yes, it's in the summary post back on page 54. |
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Quoted: Properly embedded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b_Up5Ste9cYes, it's in the summary post back on page 54-55. Missed that! |
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Quoted: He uses modified parts and lighter aftermarket safety springs, so it's not 100% proof, but it's pretty convincing in narrowing down what the variables are. His set up is pre-voluntary upgrade 320 + competition work done by Grayguns + dirty gun = UD with a tap to the top of the slide. It's really a dig a GG due to it being their work and them backing SIG's gaslighting. |
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Quoted: Sell it and replace it with a SAO 226 XFive, which is ironically one of the best handguns I've ever handled and shot. Quoted: Quoted: The pre-upgrade doesn’t bother me at all because it was voluntary. If they had issued a recall or a mandatory upgrade, I think I would look at it very differently. There are still going to be countless pre-upgraded 320s out in the wild simply because it was voluntary. And I thought it was comical, that although the gun was modified, the person that did the modifying had also claimed that it’s impossible for 320 to fire without the trigger being pulled. I really don’t know how Sig fixes this without it costing a lot of money. But I think the longer they wait, the more painful it’s going to be for them. And other than a range toy, I’m not sure what to do with my X5 Legion. Sell it and replace it with a SAO 226 XFive, which is ironically one of the best handguns I've ever handled and shot. Hell, I’m hoping that’s what Sig will offer me in trade for my XFive. But I’m definitely not holding my breath. |
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Quoted: His set up is pre-voluntary upgrade 320 + competition work done by Grayguns + dirty gun = UC with a tap to the top of the slide. It's really a dig a GG due to it being their work and them backing SIG's gaslighting. Agreed. More damning of GG than Sig, but I can see how a factory gun could end up the same way. |
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Quoted: A Sig Custom Works gun or one of the black Legion ones? Quoted: Quoted: Those are really nice. I didn't like how cheap the safety looked on the one I handled, though. A Sig Custom Works gun or one of the black Legion ones? Black Legion one. It felt kinda mushy, but still clicked. |
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Quoted: Glock will sell a bunch of guns to people needing replacements. Maybe the gun stores hurting due to the Trump slump will get some business out of this. Not a fan of the broken window theory but will be interesting to watch the second order effects. If Glock were smart they'd offer a trade-in program. Take a margin hit, but it's not like their guns are moving much right now anyway, and besides, we all know their margin's pretty good. A Glock costs the same as a Dagger to make; and PSA is selling Dagger's with margin - so you know what Glocks margin has to be; meaning they could absorb it to bury their upstart competition who beat them to the sale. |
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Quoted: If Glock were smart they'd offer a trade-in program. Take a margin hit, but it's not like their guns are moving much right now anyway, and besides, we all know their margin's pretty good. A Glock costs the same as a Dagger to make; and PSA is selling Dagger's with margin - so you know what Glocks margin has to be; meaning they could absorb it to bury their upstart competition who beat them to the sale. Quoted: Quoted: Glock will sell a bunch of guns to people needing replacements. Maybe the gun stores hurting due to the Trump slump will get some business out of this. Not a fan of the broken window theory but will be interesting to watch the second order effects. If Glock were smart they'd offer a trade-in program. Take a margin hit, but it's not like their guns are moving much right now anyway, and besides, we all know their margin's pretty good. A Glock costs the same as a Dagger to make; and PSA is selling Dagger's with margin - so you know what Glocks margin has to be; meaning they could absorb it to bury their upstart competition who beat them to the sale. Glocks aren’t moving? I’d assume they’re moving as much as any other striker fired pistol. It’s still the biggest handgun forum on here by a large margin. |
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Quoted: Glocks aren’t moving? I’d assume they’re moving as much as any other striker fired pistol. It’s still the biggest handgun forum on here by a large margin. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Glock will sell a bunch of guns to people needing replacements. Maybe the gun stores hurting due to the Trump slump will get some business out of this. Not a fan of the broken window theory but will be interesting to watch the second order effects. If Glock were smart they'd offer a trade-in program. Take a margin hit, but it's not like their guns are moving much right now anyway, and besides, we all know their margin's pretty good. A Glock costs the same as a Dagger to make; and PSA is selling Dagger's with margin - so you know what Glocks margin has to be; meaning they could absorb it to bury their upstart competition who beat them to the sale. Glocks aren’t moving? I’d assume they’re moving as much as any other striker fired pistol. It’s still the biggest handgun forum on here by a large margin. Oh, yea Glock's market share is great. I meant the gun industry as a whole is at reduced sales rate right now. Which will include Glock. Meaning they probably have more manufacturing capacity right now than sales are happening right now. |
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Quoted: Black Legion one. It felt kinda mushy, but still clicked. If you charge find a Custom Works stainless one those are about as nice of a current production handgun as you can find. I think the better P210s are still the nicest production gun Sig has made, but those were basically match target pistols pretending to be a combat sidearm. |
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Quoted: I just spent the last two days reading every post in this topic so far. Interesting to see the Sig cheerleaders slowly dwindle down. Just curious what direction the force would need to be applied to over come the sear springs and to trip the striker? In my mind hitting the muzzle end of the gun in an upward direction could possibly cause it. I also agree on what was said about 10 pages ago about the sear springs, not being strong enough and the timing being off for them to react to catch the safety sear. And as suit hands has demonstrated with his pointy thingy, there's definitely an issue with the striker safety block. It seems like every so often all of these bad things will come in perfect alignment of some sort, and the uncommanded discharge occurs. If I wanted to make the sear slip off the striker with an impact, I would smack the butt of the gun. Like, hold the gun by the barrel end and smack it hard on a table or something. The sear has to move down to clear the striker. So you get the entire gun moving down, then abruptly stop the gun and allow inertia to pull the sear down. I don't have a 320 to test this on, but I would make damn sure it was unloaded and had a bright colored plastic dummy round in the chamber before attempting a test like this. I would be curious to learn how much finger pressure it takes to compress the sear springs on these FCUs. That, combined with the mass of the sear, the friction of the sear/striker foot interface and the pivot point of the sear pin could be used to calculate the force it would require to make it move without a trigger pull. But I'm not an engineer and wouldn't know where to begin to calculate that.
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Quoted: Hell, I’m hoping that’s what Sig will offer me in trade for my XFive. But I’m definitely not holding my breath. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The pre-upgrade doesn’t bother me at all because it was voluntary. If they had issued a recall or a mandatory upgrade, I think I would look at it very differently. There are still going to be countless pre-upgraded 320s out in the wild simply because it was voluntary. And I thought it was comical, that although the gun was modified, the person that did the modifying had also claimed that it’s impossible for 320 to fire without the trigger being pulled. I really don’t know how Sig fixes this without it costing a lot of money. But I think the longer they wait, the more painful it’s going to be for them. And other than a range toy, I’m not sure what to do with my X5 Legion. Sell it and replace it with a SAO 226 XFive, which is ironically one of the best handguns I've ever handled and shot. Hell, I’m hoping that’s what Sig will offer me in trade for my XFive. But I’m definitely not holding my breath. Probably just a discount on a mid tier app/membership/course subscription, and choice of a hat or shirt. |
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Quoted: What does any of what you've just said have to do with my point; which is that a properly functioning sear is more important than a properly functioning firing pin block, as is illustrated by all the pistols which have no firing pin block, including the 1911? Quoted: Quoted: Because there is a manual safety on the 1911 that holds the sear against the hammer, preventing it from slipping off if dropped, jostled, or anything of the sort. And there is a passive grip safety that prevents the trigger from being pulled if the grip safety isn't gripped. No one is saying the 1911 doesn't have the ability to pop a primer. Of course it does. It wouldn't be a gun if it didn't. The difference is that when it is properly saved and holstered, the sear cannot slip off the hammer. Nothing prevents the sear from slipping off the striker foot in a 320 other than the sear springs. It isn't locked in place. The entire mass of the 320 sear is on one side of the pivot pin, and an impact with enough force to overcome the sear springs and striker foot friction will make it slip off. Then you get to play striker safety roulette. If you look at the 1911 sear, there is roughly equal mass on both sides of the sear pin so an impact won't have as much inertia to act upon. What does any of what you've just said have to do with my point; which is that a properly functioning sear is more important than a properly functioning firing pin block, as is illustrated by all the pistols which have no firing pin block, including the 1911? The point is that a properly designed sear (not necessarily same as properly functioning) cannot come off the hammer or striker unless it is intended to. The 1911 achieves that using a combination of active and passive safeties independent of the firing pin block. What active and/or passive mechanisms prevent a 320 sear from coming off the striker foot? The sear spring, hope and good intentions? |
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Quoted: Thank you! The first one is a bit more informative but the interactions between all the components isn't quite as clear as it could be. That's a lot better than nothing... Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Having an https://www.youtube.com/@animagraffs/videos quality 3d modelling of the 320 would be VERY helpful in sorting this stuff out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j3nGnPrkjI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOawmFLINwgThe first one is a bit more informative but the interactions between all the components isn't quite as clear as it could be. That's a lot better than nothing... Maybe check some of the 3D printer sites, someone might have uploaded an .stl file that you could open in some design software and spinning around to get a look from every angle. Even better, print a plastic 320 and see how the parts work together. |
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Quoted: Glock will sell a bunch of guns to people needing replacements. Maybe the gun stores hurting due to the Trump slump will get some business out of this. Not a fan of the broken window theory but will be interesting to watch the second order effects. I wonder what the pawn shops are offering for used 320s, if they even accept them at all. |
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Quoted: I saw the Triad video in the other thread, but didn't see it here, so reposting it along with my commentary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b_Up5Ste9cHe uses modified parts and lighter aftermarket safety springs, so it's not 100% proof, but it's pretty convincing in narrowing down what the variables are. Worn sear that holds the fully-cocked firing pin back with less contact. Crudded up gun that makes safety springs have to work harder to push things back into place in the proper time. Shitty, weak springs from shitty Sig QC that can't overcome the crud. Shitty safeties with shitty tolerances because of shitty Sig QC that can't do their job: stop things from moving even if other systems fail. All combine to allow the sear to slip with external movement and the firing pin to bypass all safeties. Boom. Right into your dick. ETA: holster bois on suicide watch. Nah, they're still carrying AIWB. Their dicks would be scared, but we all know dicks don't have brains or there wouldn't be a human race. |
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Quoted: I wonder what the pawn shops are offering for used 320s, if they even accept them at all. Quoted: Quoted: Glock will sell a bunch of guns to people needing replacements. Maybe the gun stores hurting due to the Trump slump will get some business out of this. Not a fan of the broken window theory but will be interesting to watch the second order effects. I wonder what the pawn shops are offering for used 320s, if they even accept them at all. The gun store I moonlight at has stopped buying them. 1. They're not moving, 2. Liability if we sell one and it goes off. |
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Quoted: The gun store i moonlight in has stopped buying them. 1. They're not moving, 2. Liability if we sell one and it goes off. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Glock will sell a bunch of guns to people needing replacements. Maybe the gun stores hurting due to the Trump slump will get some business out of this. Not a fan of the broken window theory but will be interesting to watch the second order effects. I wonder what the pawn shops are offering for used 320s, if they even accept them at all. The gun store i moonlight in has stopped buying them. 1. They're not moving, 2. Liability if we sell one and it goes off. Same thing is happening around here. Went in to my local LGS the other day and they're boxing up the P320s. Ask 'em what they're doing and they say, "we're getting rid of these. Sales are slow and our lawyer said they're a liability risk if they go off on a buyer." Dude comes in while they're boxing up an M&P 3.6" for me and gets pissed when they tell him, "no can do. It's a liability risk." Storms out and peels out in his F-150. EDIT: Forgot to mention, they're going to have them melted down. |
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i have absolutely no idea how many P320's have been sold. I'm assuming a ton of 'em What is the feasibility of Sig actually coming up with a resolution for this issue? I cant imagine the costs associated with more upgrades (since the first upgrade didnt seem to work), offering buy backs, or any other fix that will give P320 owners peace of mind that they're not going to be injured or killed with one. I have a feeling they are going to just ignore this and have it go away then handle any remaining lawsuits as they come. Many P320 owners, including myself, are just putting the pistols in the safe rather than take the chance with them. Im relatively certain that is what Sig is counting on. I was a Sig fan. I have four of them and was considering a P220 Legion. The way they have handled this made me realize that there are other manufacturers out there making quality firearms without the BS |
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Quoted: i have absolutely no idea how many P320's have been sold. I'm assuming a ton of 'em What is the feasibility of Sig actually coming up with a resolution for this issue? I cant imagine the costs associated with more upgrades (since the first upgrade didnt seem to work), offering buy backs, or any other fix that will give P320 owners peace of mind that they're not going to be injured or killed with one. I have a feeling they are going to just ignore this and have it go away then handle any remaining lawsuits as they come. Many P320 owners, including myself, are just putting the pistols in the safe rather than take the chance with them. Im relatively certain that is what Sig is counting on. I was a Sig fan. I have four of them and was considering a P220 Legion. The way they have handled this made me realize that there are other manufacturers out there making quality firearms without the BS You could probably swap one or two internal parts and have much better engagement but the trigger weight would probably go up a few pounds. |
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Quoted: The point is that a properly designed sear (not necessarily same as properly functioning) cannot come off the hammer or striker unless it is intended to. The 1911 achieves that using a combination of active and passive safeties independent of the firing pin block. What active and/or passive mechanisms prevent a 320 sear from coming off the striker foot? The sear spring, hope and good intentions? So what you're saying is that a pistol with a sear that functions the way a sear should, which some people might call properly functioning, is safe even if it doesn't have a firing pin block at all? Which is the point I've been making this whole time? |
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Quoted: If Glock were smart they'd offer a trade-in program. Take a margin hit, but it's not like their guns are moving much right now anyway, and besides, we all know their margin's pretty good. A Glock costs the same as a Dagger to make; and PSA is selling Dagger's with margin - so you know what Glocks margin has to be; meaning they could absorb it to bury their upstart competition who beat them to the sale. Quoted: Quoted: Glock will sell a bunch of guns to people needing replacements. Maybe the gun stores hurting due to the Trump slump will get some business out of this. Not a fan of the broken window theory but will be interesting to watch the second order effects. If Glock were smart they'd offer a trade-in program. Take a margin hit, but it's not like their guns are moving much right now anyway, and besides, we all know their margin's pretty good. A Glock costs the same as a Dagger to make; and PSA is selling Dagger's with margin - so you know what Glocks margin has to be; meaning they could absorb it to bury their upstart competition who beat them to the sale. Citation needed. The cheapness of the Dagger’s construction is obvious when you handle one. They’re functional guns, but in no way are they built or finished to the same standards as the mainstream striker guns from Glock, S&W, Walther, or whoever. |
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Quoted: It will be funny rereading Jack Carr books in the future, all the p320s in them will be hilarious. Hopefully new shooters wont buy a bunch of p320s because of his books though. IIRC, the only books where James Reese carried a 320 are books 3 and 4. First two books he’s carrying a Glock. I want to say he switched to a 365 in book 5, and for the last 2 books he was issued a 210, except for the island assault where he carried a Glock. Carr just likes new stuff, with the exception of the 210 - he tried to turn Reese into James Bond before he killed him off. |
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Quoted: Citation needed. The cheapness of the Dagger’s construction is obvious when you handle one. They’re functional guns, but in no way are they built or finished to the same standards as the mainstream striker guns from Glock, S&W, Walther, or whoever. Quoted: Citation needed. The cheapness of the Dagger’s construction is obvious when you handle one. They’re functional guns, but in no way are they built or finished to the same standards as the mainstream striker guns from Glock, S&W, Walther, or whoever. They also save money by skipping QC and less RDT&E being required. It is very unlikely that the Dagger and a Glock cost the same to make when these 3 factors are considered. Quoted: How consistent do we really think this was from unit to unit? From the outside looking in (I helped arms room guys with inspections, but never managed one), it always seemed like everything serialized and tracked as a sensitive item was rigidly accounted for, but anything that wasn't serialized and not on hand receipts to individual soldiers was straight up wild west. I could see one arms room issuing everything that came with a sidearm to each individual guy, but only tracking the SN, the arms room next door might put all the accessories into foot lockers that sit in a corner, and the next arms room down the line might disappear accessories to make space. Quoted: LOL, while personally I still wish .mil had gone with S&W (love me all things S&W, and they should be in the holster of every soldier so equipped, in my mind), I wonder if some in DOD reading this stuff are scratching their heads wondering "so remind me, what was so wrong with the Beretta?"  Also, I'm personally thankful to have got one of the kinda/sorta copies of generally what they submitted in the bid/competition drama - it's a super sweet shooter IMO: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/88366/thumbnail_20220701_204353-2438265.jpg The Smith would likely have been a perfectly good replacement, though I still disagree that the replacement was worth the cost. Replacing the M9 has added exactly as much battlefield lethality as transgender awareness training did. |
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Quoted: Same thing is happening around here. Went in to my local LGS the other day and they're boxing up the P320s. Ask 'em what they're doing and they say, "we're getting rid of these. Sales are slow and our lawyer said they're a liability risk if they go off on a buyer." Dude comes in while they're boxing up an M&P 3.6" for me and gets pissed when they tell him, "no can do. It's a liability risk." Storms out and peels out in his F-150. EDIT: Forgot to mention, they're going to have them melted down. |
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Quoted: The gun store I moonlight at has stopped buying them. 1. They're not moving, 2. Liability if we sell one and it goes off. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Glock will sell a bunch of guns to people needing replacements. Maybe the gun stores hurting due to the Trump slump will get some business out of this. Not a fan of the broken window theory but will be interesting to watch the second order effects. I wonder what the pawn shops are offering for used 320s, if they even accept them at all. The gun store I moonlight at has stopped buying them. 1. They're not moving, 2. Liability if we sell one and it goes off. Seems totally reasonable and prudent. |
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Quoted: This sounds like a made up story. Quoted: Quoted: Same thing is happening around here. Went in to my local LGS the other day and they're boxing up the P320s. Ask 'em what they're doing and they say, "we're getting rid of these. Sales are slow and our lawyer said they're a liability risk if they go off on a buyer." Dude comes in while they're boxing up an M&P 3.6" for me and gets pissed when they tell him, "no can do. It's a liability risk." Storms out and peels out in his F-150. EDIT: Forgot to mention, they're going to have them melted down. Pretty much. Who would do that. You pull them and box them in the back awaiting a recall, buyback, etc. |
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Quoted: Pretty much. Nobody is going to do that. You pull them and box them in the back awaiting a recall, buyback, etc. 2. "Boxing them up" would be as you say, removing them from the display area and taking them in the back. Also most distributors will take product back if it is defective or recalled. You don't need to destroy the item. 3. What LGS has a furnace hot enough to melt steel? |
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Quoted: So what you're saying is that a pistol with a sear that functions the way a sear should, which some people might call properly functioning, is safe even if it doesn't have a firing pin block at all? Which is the point I've been making this whole time? Quoted: Quoted: The point is that a properly designed sear (not necessarily same as properly functioning) cannot come off the hammer or striker unless it is intended to. The 1911 achieves that using a combination of active and passive safeties independent of the firing pin block. What active and/or passive mechanisms prevent a 320 sear from coming off the striker foot? The sear spring, hope and good intentions? So what you're saying is that a pistol with a sear that functions the way a sear should, which some people might call properly functioning, is safe even if it doesn't have a firing pin block at all? Which is the point I've been making this whole time? A firing pin block is necessary to prevent the firing pin from popping the primer without a trigger pull. Do you contend that these 320s have properly functioning sears? When the 320 is charged and holstered, the sear can be moved off the striker with a pick inserted into the back of the gun. This is because there is nothing locking the sear in place. No manual safety. The only thing holding the sear in place are the sear springs. So it could be moved off the striker by inertia if the gun is subjected to enough force in the right direction. If this happens, you'd need a secondary redundant system to prevent the striker from popping the primer. The reason a 1911 needs a firing pin block is because the sear doesn't hold the firing pin. The firing pin is only held in place by a spring (like the 320 sear) so the block is needed because inertia can pop the primer (1911 dropped on muzzle) absent a FP block. |
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Quoted: The gun store I moonlight at has stopped buying them. 1. They're not moving, 2. Liability if we sell one and it goes off. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Glock will sell a bunch of guns to people needing replacements. Maybe the gun stores hurting due to the Trump slump will get some business out of this. Not a fan of the broken window theory but will be interesting to watch the second order effects. I wonder what the pawn shops are offering for used 320s, if they even accept them at all. The gun store I moonlight at has stopped buying them. 1. They're not moving, 2. Liability if we sell one and it goes off. I feel bad for my friends who own the shop I patronize. They went to SHOT and Sig was their first stop. They bought in heavily. Fortunately they mostly stock P365s. |
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Quoted: Citation needed. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Glock will sell a bunch of guns to people needing replacements. Maybe the gun stores hurting due to the Trump slump will get some business out of this. Not a fan of the broken window theory but will be interesting to watch the second order effects. If Glock were smart they'd offer a trade-in program. Take a margin hit, but it's not like their guns are moving much right now anyway, and besides, we all know their margin's pretty good. A Glock costs the same as a Dagger to make; and PSA is selling Dagger's with margin - so you know what Glocks margin has to be; meaning they could absorb it to bury their upstart competition who beat them to the sale. Citation needed.  
obviously nobody has access to the P&L, but it talks about the high margin and low-cost. We can nitpick, but the general aspect is there. Go and read it if you want to be actually informed about Glock. It's also a playbook on gaming and shenanigans on how to win .gov contracts - which SIG read, followed, and beat Glock at. |