[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIG “ The P320. It ends today.” (Page 54 of 142)
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Quoted: Your obsession with Leviathan continues to be weird. Quoted: Quoted: Honest Outlaw, Leviathan Tribe member, dumps the SIG 320:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnBgH8Ini7gYour obsession with Leviathan continues to be weird. I think the weirdest thing is that people watch GunTubers not knowing that most of what they watch was paid for by the gun company whose product is being reviewed. Hence, a Leviathan Tribe member shitting on the SIG 320 at this juncture is significant, as there's real money at stake. Will be interesting to see what take our own @MrGunsnGear drops sooner or later. |
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Quoted: I have a close friend who has several P320s. He's heavily invested in the platform and is obviously very disappointed in Sig. He's facing the same dilemma. Me? I'd clean them up, case them, and put them in the back of the safe. Walk away from them- for now. I believe Sig will have to deal with this eventually. Maybe a recall, or send out a replacement FCU to owners, something like that. Meanwhile, shoot something else you already own. Or, use it as an excuse to but a new pistol! Either way, it sucks, but better safe than sorry. Explore alternatives and options. Quoted: Quoted: OK. It took me a while but i am convinced that it just isnt worth it to carry either of my 320's. Sucks, because i liked my M17 so much that i bought a 320C for just that purpose. Of course, i bought them years ago when the issue was still somewhat defensible. Now i have two 320's that I'm not sure what to do with  I have a close friend who has several P320s. He's heavily invested in the platform and is obviously very disappointed in Sig. He's facing the same dilemma. Me? I'd clean them up, case them, and put them in the back of the safe. Walk away from them- for now. I believe Sig will have to deal with this eventually. Maybe a recall, or send out a replacement FCU to owners, something like that. Meanwhile, shoot something else you already own. Or, use it as an excuse to but a new pistol! Either way, it sucks, but better safe than sorry. Explore alternatives and options. The future is anyone's guess. There's a scenario where Sig comes up with a modification of the P320 design and offers that. There's a scenario where Sig offers replacements of the P320 with some P365 variant. There's a scenario where the P320s get orphaned because Sig can't/won't do anything to fix them, and used P320s become less popular than DAO police trade-ins chambered in .40. |
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Quoted: The future is anyone's guess. There's a scenario where Sig comes up with a modification of the P320 design and offers that. There's a scenario where Sig offers replacements of the P320 with some P365 variant. There's a scenario where the P320s get orphaned because Sig can't/won't do anything to fix them, and used P320s become less popular than DAO police trade-ins chambered in .40. All very possible. My friend was a 1911 guy forever. When he decided to wade into the polymer pistol market I recommended Glock. I'd been shooting them for 20 years at that point, but he said he didn't like Glock and went with Sig. I get it. Glock isn't for everyone. OK. And I always thought of Sig as a premium brand. Cool. He went nuts and bought...everything. I figure he's got close to $10k tied up in his P320s between the pistols, extra mags, optics, holsters, trips back to the Sig Custom Shop, etc. He's beside himself at this point. Very touchy subject I don't bring up. I feel bad for him, but he's got other platforms to fall back on, so he isn't totally SOL. |
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Quoted: I think the weirdest thing is that people watch GunTubers not knowing that most of what they watch was paid for by the gun company whose product is being reviewed. Hence, a Leviathan Tribe member shitting on the SIG 320 at this juncture is significant, as there's real money at stake. Will be interesting to see what take our own @MrGunsnGear drops sooner or later. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Honest Outlaw, Leviathan Tribe member, dumps the SIG 320: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnBgH8Ini7gYour obsession with Leviathan continues to be weird. I think the weirdest thing is that people watch GunTubers not knowing that most of what they watch was paid for by the gun company whose product is being reviewed. Hence, a Leviathan Tribe member shitting on the SIG 320 at this juncture is significant, as there's real money at stake. Will be interesting to see what take our own @MrGunsnGear drops sooner or later. Are you sure it works that way? Because most of what I've seen and read indicates that not exactly accurate. YouTube has been playing demonetization games with gun channels for over a decade at this point. Running these channels is a full time job with significant costs for range time, ammo, and AV gear, and that's not including the products to be reviewed. Some of these guys have good Patreon revenue, but that only goes so far. Most people who watch the videos will never subscribe to the channel on YT, much less pay for Patreon. This is the gap where Leviathan comes in. Leviathan primarily brokers those sponsored ad reads for things like SDI, video games, buy land in Scotland, or whatever else. Leviathan matches sponsors with content creators, and takes a cut. Are there channels in the Leviathan group that are paid by gun manufacturers? Maybe. Maybe not. Is there any correlation that says Leviathan channels are getting paid by manufacturers while independent channels are not? This seems incredibly unlikely. And the real truth can be in the content itself. I've watched more Honest Outlaw videos than I care to admit. That guy has been very open about being a fan of CZ and S&W, and yet, he has given rough negative reviews to products from both companies. I'm going to guess the manufacturers didn't sign up for that, and it's silly to suggest it's an extortion scheme. |
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Quoted: Are you sure it works that way? Because most of what I've seen and read indicates that not exactly accurate. YouTube has been playing demonetization games with gun channels for over a decade at this point. Running these channels is a full time job with significant costs for range time, ammo, and AV gear, and that's not including the products to be reviewed. Some of these guys have good Patreon revenue, but that only goes so far. Most people who watch the videos will never subscribe to the channel on YT, much less pay for Patreon. This is the gap where Leviathan comes in. Leviathan primarily brokers those sponsored ad reads for things like SDI, video games, buy land in Scotland, or whatever else. Leviathan matches sponsors with content creators, and takes a cut. Are there channels in the Leviathan group that are paid by gun manufacturers? Maybe. Maybe not. Is there any correlation that says Leviathan channels are getting paid by manufacturers while independent channels are not? This seems incredibly unlikely. And the real truth can be in the content itself. I've watched more Honest Outlaw videos than I care to admit. That guy has been very open about being a fan of CZ and S&W, and yet, he has given rough negative reviews to products from both companies. I'm going to guess the manufacturers didn't sign up for that, and it's silly to suggest it's an extortion scheme. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Honest Outlaw, Leviathan Tribe member, dumps the SIG 320: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnBgH8Ini7gYour obsession with Leviathan continues to be weird. I think the weirdest thing is that people watch GunTubers not knowing that most of what they watch was paid for by the gun company whose product is being reviewed. Hence, a Leviathan Tribe member shitting on the SIG 320 at this juncture is significant, as there's real money at stake. Will be interesting to see what take our own @MrGunsnGear drops sooner or later. Are you sure it works that way? Because most of what I've seen and read indicates that not exactly accurate. YouTube has been playing demonetization games with gun channels for over a decade at this point. Running these channels is a full time job with significant costs for range time, ammo, and AV gear, and that's not including the products to be reviewed. Some of these guys have good Patreon revenue, but that only goes so far. Most people who watch the videos will never subscribe to the channel on YT, much less pay for Patreon. This is the gap where Leviathan comes in. Leviathan primarily brokers those sponsored ad reads for things like SDI, video games, buy land in Scotland, or whatever else. Leviathan matches sponsors with content creators, and takes a cut. Are there channels in the Leviathan group that are paid by gun manufacturers? Maybe. Maybe not. Is there any correlation that says Leviathan channels are getting paid by manufacturers while independent channels are not? This seems incredibly unlikely. And the real truth can be in the content itself. I've watched more Honest Outlaw videos than I care to admit. That guy has been very open about being a fan of CZ and S&W, and yet, he has given rough negative reviews to products from both companies. I'm going to guess the manufacturers didn't sign up for that, and it's silly to suggest it's an extortion scheme. We know how gun writers and gun magazines work, and have worked for a long time. Trash a product hard enough, gun company pulls advertising from that magazine. Magazines live on advertising. Thus, the new guns, cartridges, and gear that come out are the bestest ever. What is trash doesn't get reviewed. GunTubers do throw shade occasionally on brands & guns, but it mostly follows the magazine model. Gun company introduces a new model, sends a carefully selected gun around to gun writers & GunTubers. It gets reviewed, and if the individual likes it enough, he can buy it at a price well below wholesale. If the new gun sucks, a lot of reviews don't get published. Two problems - the public generally never gets authentic negative press for a new gun, and the guns reviewed are often hand assembled cream puffs that may be pre-production samples. Remember the Remington R51? Glowing reviews, praised in videos - and turned out to be a jammamatic dog. So while GunTubers certainly can criticize a particular gun model or company, it's important to keep their business model in mind. Many are not truly independent journalists, and unfortunately most don't disclose what they are getting paid for the review you are watching. At most, they'll disclose that the gun they're reviewing was sent to them by that manufacturer for review. Leviathan Tribe is the biggest GunTuber advertising company in the GunTube space, so when I do mention a GunTuber that is a member, I try to mention that when it's pertinent. Armed Attorney's or Guns & Gadgets reporting on a Federal court case? Not really germane. |
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Quoted: I have a close friend who has several P320s. He's heavily invested in the platform and is obviously very disappointed in Sig. He's facing the same dilemma. Me? I'd clean them up, case them, and put them in the back of the safe. Walk away from them- for now. I believe Sig will have to deal with this eventually. Maybe a recall, or send out a replacement FCU to owners, something like that. Meanwhile, shoot something else you already own. Or, use it as an excuse to but a new pistol! Either way, it sucks, but better safe than sorry. Explore alternatives and options. Quoted: Quoted: OK. It took me a while but i am convinced that it just isnt worth it to carry either of my 320's. Sucks, because i liked my M17 so much that i bought a 320C for just that purpose. Of course, i bought them years ago when the issue was still somewhat defensible. Now i have two 320's that I'm not sure what to do with I have a close friend who has several P320s. He's heavily invested in the platform and is obviously very disappointed in Sig. He's facing the same dilemma. Me? I'd clean them up, case them, and put them in the back of the safe. Walk away from them- for now. I believe Sig will have to deal with this eventually. Maybe a recall, or send out a replacement FCU to owners, something like that. Meanwhile, shoot something else you already own. Or, use it as an excuse to but a new pistol! Either way, it sucks, but better safe than sorry. Explore alternatives and options. Good advice. Thank you |
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Quoted: We know how gun writers and gun magazines work, and have worked for a long time. Trash a product hard enough, gun company pulls advertising from that magazine. Magazines live on advertising. Thus, the new guns, cartridges, and gear that come out are the bestest ever. What is trash doesn't get reviewed. GunTubers do throw shade occasionally on brands & guns, but it mostly follows the magazine model. Gun company introduces a new model, sends a carefully selected gun around to gun writers & GunTubers. It gets reviewed, and if the individual likes it enough, he can buy it at a price well below wholesale. If the new gun sucks, a lot of reviews don't get published. Two problems - the public generally never gets authentic negative press for a new gun, and the guns reviewed are often hand assembled cream puffs that may be pre-production samples. Remember the Remington R51? Glowing reviews, praised in videos - and turned out to be a jammamatic dog. So while GunTubers certainly can criticize a particular gun model or company, it's important to keep their business model in mind. Many are not truly independent journalists, and unfortunately most don't disclose what they are getting paid for the review you are watching. At most, they'll disclose that the gun they're reviewing was sent to them by that manufacturer for review. Leviathan Tribe is the biggest GunTuber advertising company in the GunTube space, so when I do mention a GunTuber that is a member, I try to mention that when it's pertinent. Armed Attorney's or Guns & Gadgets reporting on a Federal court case? Not really germane. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Honest Outlaw, Leviathan Tribe member, dumps the SIG 320: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnBgH8Ini7gYour obsession with Leviathan continues to be weird. I think the weirdest thing is that people watch GunTubers not knowing that most of what they watch was paid for by the gun company whose product is being reviewed. Hence, a Leviathan Tribe member shitting on the SIG 320 at this juncture is significant, as there's real money at stake. Will be interesting to see what take our own @MrGunsnGear drops sooner or later. Are you sure it works that way? Because most of what I've seen and read indicates that not exactly accurate. YouTube has been playing demonetization games with gun channels for over a decade at this point. Running these channels is a full time job with significant costs for range time, ammo, and AV gear, and that's not including the products to be reviewed. Some of these guys have good Patreon revenue, but that only goes so far. Most people who watch the videos will never subscribe to the channel on YT, much less pay for Patreon. This is the gap where Leviathan comes in. Leviathan primarily brokers those sponsored ad reads for things like SDI, video games, buy land in Scotland, or whatever else. Leviathan matches sponsors with content creators, and takes a cut. Are there channels in the Leviathan group that are paid by gun manufacturers? Maybe. Maybe not. Is there any correlation that says Leviathan channels are getting paid by manufacturers while independent channels are not? This seems incredibly unlikely. And the real truth can be in the content itself. I've watched more Honest Outlaw videos than I care to admit. That guy has been very open about being a fan of CZ and S&W, and yet, he has given rough negative reviews to products from both companies. I'm going to guess the manufacturers didn't sign up for that, and it's silly to suggest it's an extortion scheme. We know how gun writers and gun magazines work, and have worked for a long time. Trash a product hard enough, gun company pulls advertising from that magazine. Magazines live on advertising. Thus, the new guns, cartridges, and gear that come out are the bestest ever. What is trash doesn't get reviewed. GunTubers do throw shade occasionally on brands & guns, but it mostly follows the magazine model. Gun company introduces a new model, sends a carefully selected gun around to gun writers & GunTubers. It gets reviewed, and if the individual likes it enough, he can buy it at a price well below wholesale. If the new gun sucks, a lot of reviews don't get published. Two problems - the public generally never gets authentic negative press for a new gun, and the guns reviewed are often hand assembled cream puffs that may be pre-production samples. Remember the Remington R51? Glowing reviews, praised in videos - and turned out to be a jammamatic dog. So while GunTubers certainly can criticize a particular gun model or company, it's important to keep their business model in mind. Many are not truly independent journalists, and unfortunately most don't disclose what they are getting paid for the review you are watching. At most, they'll disclose that the gun they're reviewing was sent to them by that manufacturer for review. Leviathan Tribe is the biggest GunTuber advertising company in the GunTube space, so when I do mention a GunTuber that is a member, I try to mention that when it's pertinent. Armed Attorney's or Guns & Gadgets reporting on a Federal court case? Not really germane. The gun magazine comparison might sound good on paper (lol), but I don't think the current reality fits that neatly. The media landscape has changed dramatically. X has largely replaced news outlets, and guys running YouTube channels in their basements have largely replaced programming from sports media giants like ESPN and Fox Sports. And so it is with guns. For decades, gun magazines got by with a few glossy photos, a few grouping measurements, and some written cliches about fit and finish or trigger pulls. And if there was a discrepancy with the review, it took months to come to light, and conversation was limited to three dudes talking about it in a gun shop somewhere. Gun tubers are expected to put exponentially more content into 10-15 minute videos, and if there are discrepancies with their reviews, they'll be posted all over the internet from here, to Reddit, to the comments section of their videos, and sometimes other YT channels. These guys risk their viewers if they do anything iffy, and those viewers are how they pay the bills to survive. I bet some channels have taken some huge revenue losses because they pissed off viewers. I do remember the R51. I shot an early example. I thought it was a neat gun, and I had no malfunctions shooting it. I seriously considered buying it, but there are other guns I wanted more at the time. Either way, any funding from manufacturers to YT channels doesn't work the way you seem to think it does. Look at Garand Thumb. He was a Leviathan guy, and he is/was openly sponsored by JJE by way of AAC, but he habitually bashed PSA guns on his channel. Does that fit your expectations? Because I don't think so. Back to Honest Outlaw, I've seen him give pretty harsh negative reviews to guns from S&W, CZ, Sig, and Henry, and that's just off the top of my head. Does pissing off half the manufacturers in the industry make sense if that's the primary revenue source? And again, I haven't seen a correlation that says Leviathan channels are any more or less likely to shill bad guns than non-Leviathan channels. You want to hate them for something? Hate them for advertising SDI. |
Gun Deals w/ a clip seemingly confirming the Chicago PD rumor: Is the P320 Safe? |
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Quoted: All very possible. My friend was a 1911 guy forever. When he decided to wade into the polymer pistol market I recommended Glock. I'd been shooting them for 20 years at that point, but he said he didn't like Glock and went with Sig. I get it. Glock isn't for everyone. OK. And I always thought of Sig as a premium brand. Cool. He went nuts and bought...everything. I figure he's got close to $10k tied up in his P320s between the pistols, extra mags, optics, holsters, trips back to the Sig Custom Shop, etc. He's beside himself at this point. Very touchy subject I don't bring up. I feel bad for him, but he's got other platforms to fall back on, so he isn't totally SOL. |
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Quoted: ... Yes, as we've covered 3 times now the manual safety holds the sear in place, helping prevent a failure. Outside of that, a 1911's hammer/sear interaction works fundamentally the same as a P320's striker/sear interaction is supposed to work. A spring forces the sear to rotate into the path of the hammer or striker, the trigger forces the sear to rotate and slide off the sear surface on the hammer or striker. You entirely missed the point. In order for the 1911 to be the same as that, the spring on the 1911's firing pin would have to be loaded in tension pushing the pin forward and the 1911's sear would have to be holding the firing pin "back" from going forward. On one the spring pushes the firing pin back. On the other the spring is pushing the striker (equal in function to the firing pin) forward, and the spring's tension is being held back and is let go of. That is NOT the same thing, let's not pretend it is. The 320's striker effectively combines the actions of the 1911's firing pin AND hammer and the spring that drives the hammer. One has the "thing that hits the primer" held back by spring tension. The other has the "thing that hits the primer" loaded under spring pressure and held by the sear. |
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Quoted: Thanks; it seems that I’ve misremembered some stuff, or maybe just been outright wrong/misinformed. I’d swear I previously saw a blurb about that slide mounted safety when I read this back while it was a thing. Interestingly, I saw an excerpt in another thread that said it could not be single-action only. Quoted: Thanks; it seems that I’ve misremembered some stuff, or maybe just been outright wrong/misinformed. I’d swear I previously saw a blurb about that slide mounted safety when I read this back while it was a thing. Interestingly, I saw an excerpt in another thread that said it could not be single-action only. Reporting around the MHS competition was absolutely awful, so misconceptions are rampant. The Army seems to have decided that striker fired guns don't count as single action only, even if they're fully precocked. Quoted: Thanks; I see that now. Makes it even more interesting that the Army spent millions of dollars to choose an unfamiliar and immature gun over one that was already well vetted by SOF for two decades of largely wartime use, and continues to be issued to this day. It might be argued that the Glock backstrap system would be more useful than changing grips to DoD employees. Glocks come with them, whereas Sigs don’t. I suspect that SMs requesting a larger or smaller grip module are going to get told to pound sand, and just get issued a box-stock M18 or M17 with no consideration for “modularity”. 'Unfamiliar', 'immature', and 'vetted by SOF' aren't really metrics that lend themselves to a pistol competition. M17s and M18s shipped to the Army with small, medium, and large grip assemblies. |
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Quoted: Reporting around the MHS competition was absolutely awful, so misconceptions are rampant. The Army seems to have decided that striker fired guns don't count as single action only, even if they're fully precocked. 'Unfamiliar', 'immature', and 'vetted by SOF' aren't really metrics that lend themselves to a pistol competition. M17s and M18s shipped to the Army with small, medium, and large grip assemblies. But what gets issued? Operator perception and name confidence were critera, though iirc both glock and sig got top marks. |
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Quoted: Gun Deals w/ a clip seemingly confirming the Chicago PD rumor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V59VmNE62AAIt doesn't confirm it. He's just repeating it. |
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Quoted: You entirely missed the point. In order for the 1911 to be the same as that, the spring on the 1911's firing pin would have to be loaded in tension pushing the pin forward and the 1911's sear would have to be holding the firing pin "back" from going forward. On one the spring pushes the firing pin back. On the other the spring is pushing the striker (equal in function to the firing pin) forward, and the spring's tension is being held back and is let go of. That is NOT the same thing, let's not pretend it is. The 320's striker effectively combines the actions of the 1911's firing pin AND hammer and the spring that drives the hammer. One has the "thing that hits the primer" held back by spring tension. The other has the "thing that hits the primer" loaded under spring pressure and held by the sear. The 1911 has the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer loaded in tension, held back by the sear. If the sear fails, the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer will do so and it will fire. The P320 has the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer loaded in tension, held back by the sear. If the sear and firing pin block fail, the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer will do so and it will fire. I really don't see how the 1911 transferring the energy through an inertial firing pin makes any difference. |
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UPDATED POST. I went through 54 pages of this thread and 12 of the achillies training class one. Attached File The drop safe problems on the un-upgraded guns:  Drop test a sig p320 yes it goes BANG!! 1st time on carpet!   Is Your Pistol Drop Safe?  Sig Sauer P320 Fails Drop Test  Sig Sauer P320: Before & After Voluntary Upgrade https://www.sigsauer.com/p320-voluntary-upgrade-program https://www.sigsauer.com/blog/p320-upgrade-program-information https://www.smbb.com/practice/defective-firearms-attorneys/ https://www.kherkhergarcia.com/sig-sauer-wrongful-death-lawsuits/ https://www.schmidtlaw.com/sig-sauer-p320-lawsuit/ https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2024/12/04/2991675/0/en/Breaking-Wrongful-Death-Lawsuit-Filed-Against-Gunmaker-Sig-Sauer-After-Local-Business-Owner-Shot-Killed-At-Home-By-His-Holstered-Defectively-Designed-P320-Pistol.html  Montville police officer’s handgun went off inside the Montville Police Department  Failed To Load Title https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2024-06-25/documents-detail-u-s-soldiers-shot-by-their-own-sig-sauer-guns-military-says-no-reason-for-concern https://www.thetrace.org/2024/06/sig-sauer-p320-lawsuit-safety-issues/ Fit and finish   Failed To Load Title  SIG P320 Uncommanded Discharge on Video https://www.sigsauer.com/blog/sig-sauer-statement-on-montville-ct-police-department-incident   P320 - STRIKER SAFETY DISENGAGEMENT PARAMETERS Legal PDF: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XCGiOsP9aymOaEKg6pLSObYXM9tRBv4p/view Screen grab from the above: Attached File Attached File  What the heck is going on with the Sig P320? Vid comment: @stanthebamafan 1 month ago I’m a mechanical engineer in the medical device industry. I’ve worked for many years in everything from product design to manufacturing to quality. After seeing the photos of manufacturing defects from the expert witness testimony in the various lawsuits, I think this is an egregiously bad design and even worse quality control over contracted MIM parts from third world countries. Guns are like medical devices, where even a 1% catastrophic failure rate should be unacceptable. A lot of people don’t understand how manufacturing defects work. You see people say, “I own two of these guns and I’ve never had a problem.” Good, you might be in the 99%. But if 1% of the customer base has their gun going off in the holster, that’s unacceptable. Based on the photos of the manufacturing defects, and callous gaslighting responses by Sig, I would never recommend any modern Sigs to anyone. JW777's post: Click To View Spoiler  Failed To Load Title
 https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/SIG-The-P320-It-ends-today-/5-2782910/?page=18#i112807738 Quoted: Quoted: No way. Standing behind a product mired in controversy is one thing, but using your media platforms to publicly call out a cop with his full name is some seriously trashy, low character conduct. If THAT is how Sig is going to do business, in conjunction with their other actions in the last week or so, I might be done with them entirely. I've been critical of the P320 for a while, but I have a few other Sig firearms and optics, they've been good, and I'd normally consider buying more. But if Sig is going to embrace truly scummy business practices like this, I won't be shopping their catalog anymore. Even to arfcom-ers. @03RN Instagram and youtube version of a video posted by ben stoeger: (just go watch it there, it's much higher res than the gifs going around): https://www.instagram.com/reel/DHMFn6QOJJi/  For Sig “It Ends Today” As KentuckyWindage pointed out, the fingers you see away from the triger guard do not appear to be the trigger finger. From my downloading the file and watching it frame--by-frame in virtualdub You can't see *where* trigger finger is. His pinkie and ring fingers are wrapped around the gun's grip . His middle finger is the one you see pointing down. *you can't see* his trigger finger.* We don't know where it was. Someone would have to have had video from directly to the side. According to another user, that was an IMI RHS holster, and that poster said sig sold it in the past co-branded as sig official merch: https://imidefense.com/product/polymer-retention-paddle-holster-for-sig-sauer-p250-full-size-p320/  Attached File   Video of multiple inidents with VO:  The Sig P320 is ‘Perfect’  SIG IS GASLIGHTING YOU Attached File Attached File  THESE TWO ARE THE STRIKER TEST AND FOLLOW ON VIDS / 3 P320S in a trenchcoat "suit wearing dude."  Testing two P320's for Uncommanded Discharge: One PASS, one FAIL  P320 Sear Movement Test followup: It's all about the Trigger Bar and Trigger From here down, other videos.  Rangemaster’s Bench Episode: Why I No Longer Use the Sig P320  Rangemaster’s Bench Episode: How I Created An Uncommanded Discharge In My P320  P320 Uncommanded Discharge Function Check  P320 SHORTCUTS - ACCIDENTAL SAFETY BY-PASS TESTING METHOD Stoeger instagram of a striker safety finger check: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DHrb7gxhxq1/ On the topic of QC and tolerancing, and why it may not be as simple as a few measurements:  Understanding GD&T https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2019-04-03/sig-sauer-ceo-avoids-jail-time-for-role-in-illegal-arms-shipment "SIG SAUER INTEL REPORT" https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ozkb5vouKqtVeHxGBtRJ5z9BVlHMF6k4Uf3gsnLe9Zc/edit?tab=t.hdaevbdop0sf  Local departments oppose Washington police academy's handgun ban Document Format Note: This document uses the document tab function native to Google Docs. To read ALL of the document, use the mobile application or web-based version. The .pdf version of this document originally posted will not contain any live updates or changes made. Version 1.0.1 Introduction: The following document was prepared by Brandon Self and contains open-source information available to anyone with an internet connection. The only information not yet published online can be found in the tab “M17 (U.S. Army Issued Sample)”. All information, except the aforementioned tab, was openly sourced from social media accounts and websites. I claim no ownership of any material not explicitly authored by myself. All open-source information or photos in this document were mentioned under fair use - those who were mentioned have been credited throughout this document. How the glock works:  How a Glock Works 320:  P320 - SAFETY MECHANISMS 1911 series 70: (series 80 adds a firing pin block that is slid out of the way via linkage to the trigger) Quoted: Essentially no pistol made before the 70s has a firing pin block, so if you carry cocked and locked with anything from that era or earlier *cough*1911*cough* you're a sear failure away from an AD. In the design(s) at question, the "firing pin" (striker) is already under pressure from the spring that pushes it forwards with enough force to fire the primer. One design has multiple blockages to the hammer being let go, the other has the "firing pin" (striker) ready to go and you have to pull the stops on it off. It's not quite the same sort of animal.  How a gun (Colt M1911) works! (Animation) In order for a non-trigger pull to make the sear let go of the hammer, you have to move the sear out of the shelf on the hammer. The mainspring is pushing the hammer in rotation force (not technical language) against the sear. The sear has to overcome the leaf spring to move, as well; and this is designed so that in normal operation the trigger has to depress the sear and disconnector backwards against that spring pressure. Also, you have to *rotate* the sear or straight up break it in some way that allows the hammer to fall without the remains of the sear getting in the way. If the leaf spring with the fingers that pressure the sear agains the hammer fails or goes weak, you'll feel a difference in cocking the weapon. If the pin for the sear deforms, that's harder to spot, but you may note the faces on either side going out of paralell because the pin has bent. It's really not the same as having a striker / "firing pin" held back that is under spring loaded pressure that you "let go of."    Also, the safety, when in use, locks the sear to the hammer: Reportedly p250, the neon green part is what stops the firing pin from going if the trigger isn't pulled:  -----------------------------  https://www.news9.com/story/67f89205e5fad4a64be9e787/records-show-oklahoma-law-enforcement-officials-concerned-over-popular-service-weapon https://www.instagram.com/achillesheeltactical/reel/DIXsR1KMOJ2/  A 320 goes pop in class! @Instananners Link to commentor's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Instananners11 hours ago I’m AHT’s media director and the one who filmed this. It was an X5 FCU and gray guns trigger and slide. I also exclusively shoot P320’s and have for 5+ years. I am now switching after seeing this first hand and realizing it was NOT user error and the gun wasn’t touched at all. He gets into the 320 at 8:28 :  5 Pistols I Don't Want To Shoot Anymore Another reaction to the ATC ND:  Another Sig P320 Negligent Discharge Caught On Camera. Wow. https://www.instagram.com/reel/DIXsR1KMOJ2/ Attached File Attached File https://www.instagram.com/reel/DIaAFMGMf_-/ Attached File Attached File ETA 4-19-2025 https://www.morningstar.com/news/globe-newswire/9412125/22-victims-of-sig-sauer-p320-across-16-states-file-new-lawsuits-in-federal-court-against-the-gunmaker-alleging-its-pistol-is-dangerously-defective Hat tip to @glklvr He found it. --------------------------- ETA 5-13-25 Hat tip to @craig24680 Originally Posted By craig24680: Buddy sent this Never heard of the site so I don't vouch for it https://www.christianwarriortraining.com/p/safety-advisory-immediate-prohibition Here's the documentation PDF that site links of incidents, legal actions and lawsuits, various agency responses and bans of the 320, and technical evaluations shorn of all the insane link hijinx (this stuff is too important to be doing that kind of stuff): https://www.christianwarriortraining.com/api/v1/file/ea6f9ffc-394d-4710-9de9-6324b90c42a9.pdf Text of the publicly available PDF in the spoiler fold below. Please at least go to the guy's substack (give him a click by visiting) for his effort! IDK the guy at all. He put in some effort documenting stuff. Click To View Spoiler |
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Quoted: The 1911 has the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer loaded in tension, held back by the sear. If the sear fails, the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer will do so and it will fire. The P320 has the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer loaded in tension, held back by the sear. If the sear and firing pin block fail, the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer will do so and it will fire. I really don't see how the 1911 transferring the energy through an inertial firing pin makes any difference. Quoted: Quoted: You entirely missed the point. In order for the 1911 to be the same as that, the spring on the 1911's firing pin would have to be loaded in tension pushing the pin forward and the 1911's sear would have to be holding the firing pin "back" from going forward. On one the spring pushes the firing pin back. On the other the spring is pushing the striker (equal in function to the firing pin) forward, and the spring's tension is being held back and is let go of. That is NOT the same thing, let's not pretend it is. The 320's striker effectively combines the actions of the 1911's firing pin AND hammer and the spring that drives the hammer. One has the "thing that hits the primer" held back by spring tension. The other has the "thing that hits the primer" loaded under spring pressure and held by the sear. The 1911 has the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer loaded in tension, held back by the sear. If the sear fails, the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer will do so and it will fire. The P320 has the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer loaded in tension, held back by the sear. If the sear and firing pin block fail, the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer will do so and it will fire. I really don't see how the 1911 transferring the energy through an inertial firing pin makes any difference. The thing that provides the energy... Is not the thing that physically hits the primer. You know there's a difference. Eta: I have not heard of 1911s going off while being holstered in the same manner these 320s are. You have to hit it with enough force in the correct direction to give the firing pin enough movement to smack the primer hard enough to set it off. The 320 "thing that hits the primer" is *already loaded under enough spring pressure to set the primer off.* eta2: and you can't see the striker OR physically *grab* the thing or ram something in between it and the firing pin as you can with a 1911. |
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Quoted: Functionally, what is the difference? If a 1911 sear fails, will it fire? Quoted: Quoted: The thing that provides the energy... Is not the thing that physically hits the primer. You know there's a difference. Again: the mechanics are NOT the same. If you want to cherry pick like this, we can theorize the failure of every single gun in the way that allows it's firing pin equivalent to hit the primer (or rim). If your logic held, that would mean NO design is correct nor safe nor able to be used safely. At some point you can intentionaly break every design and make it not work. -------------------- The 1911 design in no way justifies the 320 stuff. It's not the same danger. Even if you want to play this game, you do not see people ND/UD'in themselves with 1911s like you do with 320s - by the otherwise normal act of *putting them in their holsters while not pulling the trigger.* The tool should be designed for the user. You're not helping the 320 or sig. The 1911 design and usage is routinely used safely by average people with normal amounts of expertise and has been for over 100 years. There are people who are experiencing ND/UD 's with 320s in training classes and I suspect even in advanced training classes. |
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Quoted: Please stop being intentionally obtuse, it's embarassing to see what you're doing. Again: the mechanics are NOT the same. If you want to cherry pick like this, we can theorize the failure of every single gun in the way that allows it's firing pin equivalent to hit the primer (or rim). If your logic held, that would mean NO design is correct nor safe nor able to be used safely. At some point you can intentionaly break every design and make it not work. -------------------- The 1911 design in no way justifies the 320 stuff. It's not the same danger. Even if you want to play this game, you do not see people ND/UD'in themselves with 1911s like you do with 320s - by the otherwise normal act of *putting them in their holsters while not pulling the trigger.* The tool should be designed for the user. You're not helping the 320 or sig. The 1911 design and usage is routinely used safely by average people with normal amounts of expertise and has been for over 100 years. There are people who are experiencing ND/UD 's with 320s in training classes and I suspect even in advanced training classes. I'm not trying to help Sig or the P320. I don't own any Sigs. I don't want any Sigs. I tried to make the point that a properly functioning sear is more important than a properly functioning firing pin block, as illustrated by all the pistols people carry cocked or partially cocked with no firing pin block, and you spun that into whatever point you're trying to make. |
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Quoted: Functionally, what is the difference? If a 1911 sear fails, will it fire? Quoted: Quoted: The thing that provides the energy... Is not the thing that physically hits the primer. You know there's a difference. Functionally, what is the difference? If a 1911 sear fails, will it fire? If it works as designed, no, it will be caught by the half cock notch on the hammer. I actually knew some people who would carry with the hammer in the half cock position, then cock the hammer to full cock position if needing to fire the gun. I would not recommend this. |
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Quoted: If it works as designed, no, it will be caught by the half cock notch on the hammer. I actually knew some people who would carry with the hammer in the half cock position, then cock the hammer to full cock position if needing to fire the gun. I would not recommend this. If the sear fails, what part is going to catch the half cock notch? To be totally fair to those people, the 1911 was originally designed to be carried hammer down. This doesn't mean that I think it's a good idea today, and if you are going to do it, all the way down is probably better than half cock. |
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Quoted: Sure a lot of 320’s for sale now! Might be time for me to get an m17 at a discount. NOT as a serious piece but just 'cause I had to carry one as the SOG for 24 hours, once. Attached File Please note I kept it unloaded for safety 
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Quoted: Reporting around the MHS competition was absolutely awful, so misconceptions are rampant. The Army seems to have decided that striker fired guns don't count as single action only, even if they're fully precocked. 'Unfamiliar', 'immature', and 'vetted by SOF' aren't really metrics that lend themselves to a pistol competition. M17s and M18s shipped to the Army with small, medium, and large grip assemblies. We could use the SOPMOD Block I trickling into the current Big Army M4a1 as an example, but that was an upgrade program rather than buying a new gun. So, it actually made sense. Are you sure these things ship with multiple grip assemblies? I know of a unit that absolutely did not receive more than the one that comes on the gun, because I was at the unboxing (which had one gun have to go back immediately due to an FCU problem…foreshadowing). |
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Quoted: Series 80 with no hand on grip... won't fire. "Sear fails".... draw a diagram of how it fails. If you can't then I'd suspect the half cock notch would catch it. 1. We're specifically talking about the vast majority of 1911s with no firing pin safety. 2. Series 80s have a firing pin safety activated by the trigger; you're thinking of the Swartz safety used by Kimber. Given the 1911's long history, just about every sear failure mechanism possible has been observed, due either to poor gunsmithing, excessive wear, or poor manufacture. One of the most common is various forms of sear spring failure, leading to insufficient or no tension. In that case the manual safety will hold the sear in place while it's applied, but when it's removed a jostle will fire the gun because there isn't the force required to push the sear into the half cock notch. Poor sear tension can be a contributing factor in a 1911 going full auto, as the shock of it entering battery jolts the sear out of position over and over. Another common mechanism is improper angles on the mating surfaces on the sear and hammer, either from the manufacturer, from poor gunsmithing, or from insufficiently hardened or just excessively worn parts. In that case, the sear probably catches the half cock notch or ledge. The sear actually breaking is very uncommon, but it has been observed. A poorly manufactured sear can have the tip break off of shatter completely, which obviously leaves it incapable of catching the half cock notch. |
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Quoted: By immature, I mean early pistols getting to units having stoppages that surely must’ve existed in testing. “Vetted by SOF” is a common way for updated or new equipment to trickle down into the conventional force. After all, SOF has a RDT&E mission for the parent service. I realize that’s not normally a factor in pistol competition, but this is the first Army pistol solicitation during which Army SOF were pretty uniformly carrying a pistol that had never been previously adopted by the conventional Army. It’s previously not relevant because SOF is largely carrying pistols they got from the parent service and maybe modified. We could use the SOPMOD Block I trickling into the current Big Army M4a1 as an example, but that was an upgrade program rather than buying a new gun. Are you sure these things ship with multiple grip assemblies? I know of a unit that absolutely did not receive more than the one that comes on the gun, because I was at the unboxing (which had one gun have to go back immediately due to an FCU problem…foreshadowing). I'm 100% sure that when M17s were fielded units received a supply of small and large grip assemblies, along with 1 17 and 2 21 round mags and a full Safariland holster kit for each pistol. All of this should be accounted for on the arms room SHR and counted during cyclics and CoC inventories, but compliance with CSDP varies. Were the pistols you unboxed received outside of a fielding, perhaps as a lateral transfer? |
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Quoted: I'm 100% sure that when M17s were fielded units received small and large grip assemblies, along with 1 17 and 2 21 round mags and a full Safariland holster kit for each pistol. All of this should be accounted for on the arms room SHR and counted during cyclics and CoC inventories, but compliance with CSDP varies. Were the pistols you unboxed received outside of a fielding, perhaps as a lateral transfer? |
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Quoted: Might be time for me to get an m17 at a discount. NOT as a serious piece but just 'cause I had to carry one as the SOG for 24 hours, once. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/51435/IMG_9346_JPG-3517184.JPG Please note I kept it unloaded for safety When they hit $300 might be time to buy. 
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Quoted: If the sear fails, what part is going to catch the half cock notch? To be totally fair to those people, the 1911 was originally designed to be carried hammer down. This doesn't mean that I think it's a good idea today, and if you are going to do it, all the way down is probably better than half cock. Quoted: Quoted: If it works as designed, no, it will be caught by the half cock notch on the hammer. I actually knew some people who would carry with the hammer in the half cock position, then cock the hammer to full cock position if needing to fire the gun. I would not recommend this. If the sear fails, what part is going to catch the half cock notch? To be totally fair to those people, the 1911 was originally designed to be carried hammer down. This doesn't mean that I think it's a good idea today, and if you are going to do it, all the way down is probably better than half cock. The sear physically breaking, honestly don't know what would happen, but I've not heard of a sear actually breaking. I'd still trust a 1911 over a Sig P(ND)320. |
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Quoted: Definitely not a lateral, and they were new; still sealed. Spare grips not on the SHR, either. Are they supposed to come in the same box, or is it something that might have gotten “they won’t need this BII”-d before it got to them? I don’t remember there being room in the boxes, so maybe they got yoinked prior to arrival. The spare grip assemblies, 21 round mags, and holsters are all AAL. During the fielding they would have shipped with the pistols, not necessarily in the same box; if the pistols were received outside of the fielding then filling out the AAL is on the unit. |
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Quoted: The spare grip assemblies, 21 round mags, and holsters are all AAL. During the fielding they would have shipped with the pistols, if the pistols were received outside of the fielding then filling out the AAL is on the unit. |
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Quoted: Thanks. The holsters were present. Don’t remember whether the 21 round mags were. I think so, but not sure….this was like 6 years ago. Quoted: Quoted: The spare grip assemblies, 21 round mags, and holsters are all AAL. During the fielding they would have shipped with the pistols, if the pistols were received outside of the fielding then filling out the AAL is on the unit. How consistent do we really think this was from unit to unit? From the outside looking in (I helped arms room guys with inspections, but never managed one), it always seemed like everything serialized and tracked as a sensitive item was rigidly accounted for, but anything that wasn't serialized and not on hand receipts to individual soldiers was straight up wild west. I could see one arms room issuing everything that came with a sidearm to each individual guy, but only tracking the SN, the arms room next door might put all the accessories into foot lockers that sit in a corner, and the next arms room down the line might disappear accessories to make space. |
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Quoted: We know how gun writers and gun magazines work, and have worked for a long time. Trash a product hard enough, gun company pulls advertising from that magazine. Magazines live on advertising. Thus, the new guns, cartridges, and gear that come out are the bestest ever. What is trash doesn't get reviewed. GunTubers do throw shade occasionally on brands & guns, but it mostly follows the magazine model. Gun company introduces a new model, sends a carefully selected gun around to gun writers & GunTubers. It gets reviewed, and if the individual likes it enough, he can buy it at a price well below wholesale. If the new gun sucks, a lot of reviews don't get published. Two problems - the public generally never gets authentic negative press for a new gun, and the guns reviewed are often hand assembled cream puffs that may be pre-production samples. Remember the Remington R51? Glowing reviews, praised in videos - and turned out to be a jammamatic dog. So while GunTubers certainly can criticize a particular gun model or company, it's important to keep their business model in mind. Many are not truly independent journalists, and unfortunately most don't disclose what they are getting paid for the review you are watching. At most, they'll disclose that the gun they're reviewing was sent to them by that manufacturer for review. Leviathan Tribe is the biggest GunTuber advertising company in the GunTube space, so when I do mention a GunTuber that is a member, I try to mention that when it's pertinent. Armed Attorney's or Guns & Gadgets reporting on a Federal court case? Not really germane. How could some honest reviews get funded then? Obviously there is a need for gun reviews of production models that doesn't depend on funding from the companies that make the guns. The trouble with yuotube is that viewer expectations are too high. If they don't see slick production, they don't watch. But truthful reviews by guys without intro scenes or slick camera work and editing have more actual value than a great looking, well produced video that doesn't call out a gun for being shit if it's shit. |
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Quoted: The 1911 has the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer loaded in tension, held back by the sear. If the sear fails, the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer will do so and it will fire. The P320 has the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer loaded in tension, held back by the sear. If the sear and firing pin block fail, the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer will do so and it will fire. I really don't see how the 1911 transferring the energy through an inertial firing pin makes any difference. Because there is a manual safety on the 1911 that holds the sear against the hammer, preventing it from slipping off if dropped, jostled, or anything of the sort. And there is a passive grip safety that prevents the trigger from being pulled if the grip safety isn't gripped. No one is saying the 1911 doesn't have the ability to pop a primer. Of course it does. It wouldn't be a gun if it didn't. The difference is that when it is properly saved and holstered, the sear cannot slip off the hammer. Nothing prevents the sear from slipping off the striker foot in a 320 other than the sear springs. It isn't locked in place. The entire mass of the 320 sear is on one side of the pivot pin, and an impact with enough force to overcome the sear springs and striker foot friction will make it slip off. Then you get to play striker safety roulette. If you look at the 1911 sear, there is roughly equal mass on both sides of the sear pin so an impact won't have as much inertia to act upon. |
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I’m on the side where the holsters are more suspect. All these incidents, and the variety of holster makes/models are the greatest variable. Kydex pressed into the trigger well for retention purposes is what I think the main culprit is. Additionally, holsters pressed deep into the trigger well for curve triggers and not straight triggers adds an element. This is where I give the Glock “dingus” credit |
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Quoted: I’m on the side where the holsters are more suspect. All these incidents, and the variety of holster makes/models are the greatest variable. Kydex pressed into the trigger well for retention purposes is what I think the main culprit is. Additionally, holsters pressed deep into the trigger well for curve triggers and not straight triggers adds an element. This is where I give the Glock “dingus” credit But what is the common denominator? |
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Quoted: The entire mass of the 320 sear is on one side of the pivot pin, and an impact with enough force to overcome the sear springs and striker foot friction will make it slip off. Then you get to play striker safety roulette. Quoted: Quoted: The 1911 has the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer loaded in tension, held back by the sear. If the sear fails, the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer will do so and it will fire. The P320 has the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer loaded in tension, held back by the sear. If the sear and firing pin block fail, the thing that provides the energy to set off the primer will do so and it will fire. I really don't see how the 1911 transferring the energy through an inertial firing pin makes any difference. The entire mass of the 320 sear is on one side of the pivot pin, and an impact with enough force to overcome the sear springs and striker foot friction will make it slip off. Then you get to play striker safety roulette. I just spent the last two days reading every post in this topic so far. Interesting to see the Sig cheerleaders slowly dwindle down. Just curious what direction the force would need to be applied to over come the sear springs and to trip the striker? In my mind hitting the muzzle end of the gun in an upward direction could possibly cause it. I also agree on what was said about 10 pages ago about the sear springs, not being strong enough and the timing being off for them to react to catch the safety sear. And as suit hands has demonstrated with his pointy thingy, there’s definitely an issue with the striker safety block. It seems like every so often all of these bad things will come in perfect alignment of some sort, and the uncommanded discharge occurs. |
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Quoted: If SIG doesn't go belly up over this, you'll get your 250 FCU and like it. Don't worry, Leviathan Tribe will be singing the praises of how a long heavy DAO trigger pull is so much better than yesterday's striker fired guns. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Give everyone involved a pre-paid shipping label for their 320 FCU and then ship everyone a 250 FCU and replacement parts for their slide. I don't know the mechanical differences between the two. How difficult would that be mechanically? Some hand Dremeling required. The original 320 design could apparently swap into a 250 slide. That isn't the case today, so SIG would be on the hook for a 250 slide, likely a 250 chassis, and the 250 FCU - hammer, trigger, assorted parts. The 250 isn't a bad DAO trigger - it's just a DAO trigger. SIG 320 owners would be very unhappy w/ that solution - as Remington 597 owners were when their new .17 HMR guns were recalled & replaced w/ .22 WMR guns. Right now, barrels, mags, & grip frames interchange between your 250 & 320. It's a pretty big expense for SIG to replace all the 320 slides out there - oh, you had your slide Cerakoted? Custom optic cut? Too bad. You loved your 320 trigger? Here, have this safe 7 lb DAO trigger that is 1.6 kilometers long.  How about 2 X Macros and call it good? Or a railed OR 226 and 220? If SIG doesn't go belly up over this, you'll get your 250 FCU and like it. Don't worry, Leviathan Tribe will be singing the praises of how a long heavy DAO trigger pull is so much better than yesterday's striker fired guns. 
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Quoted: I’m on the side where the holsters are more suspect. All these incidents, and the variety of holster makes/models are the greatest variable. Kydex pressed into the trigger well for retention purposes is what I think the main culprit is. Additionally, holsters pressed deep into the trigger well for curve triggers and not straight triggers adds an element. This is where I give the Glock “dingus” credit Did you miss the part where it's been proven the P320's striker block doesn't work correctly? That's a problem no matter what holster is used. |
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Quoted: But what is the common denominator? Quoted: Quoted: I'm on the side where the holsters are more suspect. All these incidents, and the variety of holster makes/models are the greatest variable. Kydex pressed into the trigger well for retention purposes is what I think the main culprit is. Additionally, holsters pressed deep into the trigger well for curve triggers and not straight triggers adds an element. This is where I give the Glock "dingus" credit But what is the common denominator? 
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LOL, while personally I still wish .mil had gone with S&W (love me all things S&W, and they should be in the holster of every soldier so equipped, in my mind), I wonder if some in DOD reading this stuff are scratching their heads wondering "so remind me, what was so wrong with the Beretta?"  Also, I'm personally thankful to have got one of the kinda/sorta copies of generally what they submitted in the bid/competition drama - it's a super sweet shooter IMO:  |
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Quoted: I’m on the side where the holsters are more suspect. All these incidents, and the variety of holster makes/models are the greatest variable. Kydex pressed into the trigger well for retention purposes is what I think the main culprit is. Additionally, holsters pressed deep into the trigger well for curve triggers and not straight triggers adds an element. This is where I give the Glock “dingus” credit Possibly. However there are a number, how many no one knows, that have a striker block safety that doesn't work 100%. I suspect a certain number, probably the majority, are ill fitting holsters, but I now think at least a few are due to a failure of the sear and striker block at the same time. |
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Quoted: Because there is a manual safety on the 1911 that holds the sear against the hammer, preventing it from slipping off if dropped, jostled, or anything of the sort. And there is a passive grip safety that prevents the trigger from being pulled if the grip safety isn't gripped. No one is saying the 1911 doesn't have the ability to pop a primer. Of course it does. It wouldn't be a gun if it didn't. The difference is that when it is properly saved and holstered, the sear cannot slip off the hammer. Nothing prevents the sear from slipping off the striker foot in a 320 other than the sear springs. It isn't locked in place. The entire mass of the 320 sear is on one side of the pivot pin, and an impact with enough force to overcome the sear springs and striker foot friction will make it slip off. Then you get to play striker safety roulette. If you look at the 1911 sear, there is roughly equal mass on both sides of the sear pin so an impact won't have as much inertia to act upon. What does any of what you've just said have to do with my point; which is that a properly functioning sear is more important than a properly functioning firing pin block, as is illustrated by all the pistols which have no firing pin block, including the 1911? |
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Quoted: LOL, while personally I still wish .mil had gone with S&W (love me all things S&W, and they should be in the holster of every soldier so equipped, in my mind), I wonder if some in DOD reading this stuff are scratching their heads wondering "so remind me, what was so wrong with the Beretta?" Also, I'm personally thankful to have got one of the kinda/sorta copies of generally what they submitted in the bid/competition drama - it's a super sweet shooter IMO: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/88366/thumbnail_20220701_204353-2438265.jpg It's been the better part of a decade since I switched a bunch of my handguns to the M&P platform and I do not regret it one bit. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Give everyone involved a pre-paid shipping label for their 320 FCU and then ship everyone a 250 FCU and replacement parts for their slide. I don't know the mechanical differences between the two. How difficult would that be mechanically? Some hand Dremeling required. The original 320 design could apparently swap into a 250 slide. That isn't the case today, so SIG would be on the hook for a 250 slide, likely a 250 chassis, and the 250 FCU - hammer, trigger, assorted parts. The 250 isn't a bad DAO trigger - it's just a DAO trigger. SIG 320 owners would be very unhappy w/ that solution - as Remington 597 owners were when their new .17 HMR guns were recalled & replaced w/ .22 WMR guns. Right now, barrels, mags, & grip frames interchange between your 250 & 320. It's a pretty big expense for SIG to replace all the 320 slides out there - oh, you had your slide Cerakoted? Custom optic cut? Too bad. You loved your 320 trigger? Here, have this safe 7 lb DAO trigger that is 1.6 kilometers long. How about 2 X Macros and call it good? Or a railed OR 226 and 220? If SIG doesn't go belly up over this, you'll get your 250 FCU and like it. Don't worry, Leviathan Tribe will be singing the praises of how a long heavy DAO trigger pull is so much better than yesterday's striker fired guns. I already went back to my P229 |