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Posted: 2/21/2024 7:50:22 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Chinese state media The Russian Defense Minister said that the defeat of the Ukrainian army in Avdeyevka was an important victory for the Russian army 2024-02-21 08:50 | Source: Xinhuanet Moscow, Feb. 20 (Xinhua) -- Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said on Feb. 20 that the defeat of the Ukrainian army in Avdeyevka was an important victory for the Russian army. According to the information released on the Kremlin website, Shoigu reported to Russian President Putin in the Kremlin on the same day about the Russian special military operation and the Russian army's seizure of Avdeyevka, an important defense hub of the Ukrainian army. Shoigu said that it took the Ukrainian army many years to build intricate underground passages and concrete facilities in the Avdeyevka defense zone. As a result, the Russian army has mobilized a large amount of weapons and equipment to the local area. In the battle for Avdeyevka, the Russian army launched 460 precision air strikes against the Ukrainian army every day, and actually dropped about 200 tons of ammunition per day. Currently, the Russian army is conducting large-scale demining operations in Avdeyevka. Putin said that before the commander of the Ukrainian army gave the order to retreat, the Ukrainian army had begun a "chaotic withdrawal" from Avdeyevka. The order to withdraw from the Ukrainian side was actually a "political decision" made to cover up this fact. In the early morning of the 17th local time, Syrsky, commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, announced on social media that in order to avoid the encirclement of the Ukrainian army and protect the lives and health of Ukrainian officers and soldiers, he decided to withdraw the Ukrainian army from Avdeyevka in eastern Ukraine to a more favorable line of defense for defensive operations. Shoigu reported to Putin on the 17th that the Russian army had taken full control of the city of Avdeyevka. http://world.people.com.cn/n1/2024/0221/c1002-40180529.html Putin: Russia has always been firmly opposed to the deployment of nuclear weapons in space 2024-02-21 08:51 | Source: Xinhuanet Moscow, 20 Feb (Xinhua) -- Russian President Vladimir Putin said on 20 February that Russia has always resolutely opposed the deployment of nuclear weapons in space and that Russia "only does what other countries, including the United States, do" in the space field. While listening to a report by Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu in the Kremlin on the same day, Putin raised the question of the United States and other Western countries hyping up Russia's deployment of nuclear weapons in space. Shoigu said that the Russian side did not deploy nuclear weapons in space, and the West is very clear about this. Putin said that Russia's position on the above-mentioned issues is clear and transparent. Russia has consistently and resolutely opposed the deployment of nuclear weapons in space and has called for compliance with all existing agreements. Putin also noted that Russia has never given up dialogue on strategic stability and has never refused to negotiate with Ukraine. On the one hand, the West is calling for Russia's "strategic defeat" and on the other hand, it wants to negotiate with Russia on strategic stability, believing that the two issues have nothing to do with each other, but "this is impossible to achieve." http://world.people.com.cn/n1/2024/0221/c1002-40180543.html Cuba & Venezuela President Maduro meets with Russian FM Lavrov http://cubasi.cu/sites/default/files/styles/slider/public/maduro_29.jpg?itok=E5UaVdL1 Venezuela’s President Nicolas Maduro on Tuesday welcomed Russian Foreign Minister Serguei Lavrov who is paying an official visit in Caracas as part of his work agenda within his Latin American tour. Maduro welcomed the high diplomat at the Miraflores Palace, seat of the Government, alongside the First Combatant and lawmaker to the National Assembly Cilia Flores, the FM Yvan Gil and the Minister for Petroleum Rafael Tellechea, among other authorities. That meeting served to evaluate and strengthen the strategic cooperation between the two countries, which in the last 25 years have signed over 340 deals in important sectors such as oil, gas, health, education, technology, agriculture and communication, among others. Lavrov arrived early Tuesday morning in Caracas as part of his tour of Latin America and the Caribbean, which began on Monday in Cuba and will end in Brazil, where he plans to attend the G20 foreign ministers’ encounter. The head of Russian diplomacy had a busy agenda, which included the unveiling of a bust of poet and novelist Aleksandr Pushkin in the Ezequiel Zamora Park in the capital. Lavrov further held talks with Executive Vice President Delcy Rodriguez and his Venezuelan counterpart Yvan Gil, with whom he addressed at a press conference issues of bilateral, regional and world interest. The Russian FM expressed his willingness to share experiences accumulated in recent years with “our Venezuelan friends.” https://cubasi.cu/en/news/president-maduro-meets-russian-fm-lavrov lol, well that's pretty reassuring, it means the U.S. already has nukes in space and Russia is just trying to keep up. 
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Posted: 2/21/2024 8:02:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: guns762]
[#2]
-A reminder and warning to those participating in this thread-
This thread from the beginning has been about the Ukraine/Russia War, and in-theater events. This kept out the "fuck Ukraine", "its all a grift", "give the big guy 10%", "Ukraine has always been Russia" arguments that were there just to make the thread unreadable, and just like dozens of other threads about the same conflict, all with the same people spouting the same thing. This thread was treated different. Now, because many want the congressional bill passed, it's what some want to argue about. There have been a bunch of anti-republican, anti-trump, domestic border, comments posted around this issue. Those arguments and discussions are already happening in dozens of other threads. Letting them run here, only invites the trolls, who would be able to respond with "10% to the Big guy!!!" If we allow the other. Those who slide the topic with congressionl spending or presidential politics opinion posts will be thread banned, warned, or both. |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 8:13:11 AM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: I’m not certain what’s going on here, but Mrs. Strelkov is very upset, quoted below. I have no words. I'm horrified by this news. Andrei was a very bright person, Igor and I knew each other. At the cost of his life, he proved that honor and truth are dearer to him. What killed him should be known to as many people as possible. https://t.me/strelkovii/6723  ETA-Andrey Morozov = "Murz", and this is a suicide note. I won’t tell you all the events of the past day, February 20th. The investigation will establish, hehe. I'll be brief, about ten pages. If it is posted crookedly, the text is in a docx file on the desktop of the laptop, the file is called “ad mirabile futurum”. Having finished scaring me, pressuring me, convincing me, making sure that in front of them is a person who is not afraid of anything or portrays it very convincingly, many people in my life gave me their last argument - “You won’t change this!” Today I talked to a man who, knowing me a little, started right away with this. “You won't change this. The elections will be held, and the changes will begin.” I didn’t tell him the meme “Putin and expensive gasoline - 20 years of solving the problem,” let him, I think, look for himself. Look at this meme, Comrade Colonel. Today, Comrade Colonel, on your order, I was forced to delete the post from my telegram channel “They write to us from Ioannina.” And your command forced you to give this order, relying on good old army collective responsibility. If it doesn’t remove it, we won’t provide supplies. Shells. Copters. New tanks and infantry fighting vehicles. And he, your command, was forced to do this by political prostitutes led by Vladimir Solovyov, who are pissing themselves to come and pull the trigger. Well, I'll do it myself. I will shoot myself if no one dares to take on this trifling matter. And they will give you tanks and copters. It turned out that I cannot serve under your command, under the command of a man who took over a decapitated brigade in a critical situation in a critical area and “removed” the situation, I cannot serve under you and, at the same time, tell the truth. Demand that the military prosecutor's office in St. Petersburg listen to the shell-shocked soldier near Avdeevka. And, perhaps, other similar soldiers who saw everything and know everything, but cannot tell because they are intimidated. If I “can’t change anything,” then you will have to win the war yourself with what you have. IF. From February 21, 2024, you can safely tell everyone who calls you that I do not serve you, and there are no problems with me. Don’t torment yourself, Comrade Colonel, I am a soldier like all your other soldiers. I died in battle. Igor “Bereg,” a few days before the fateful trip a year ago, told me at our location in Kirovsk, drinking a craft Calvados that I kept in my storeroom, “You know, Murz, I figured out how to explain to myself what the fuck I’m doing here.” ! I am an ordinary Lebanese political strategist. I just have a very strange project!” So, Comrade Colonel, I am a soldier like everyone else, I just have a very strange battle, which I have been waging since June 20, 2005. My enemies do not come to fight me in hand-to-hand combat, they attack me with the hands of others. Approximately the same way they tried to do it, for example, on May 11, 2007, when the current “conscience of the nation” and “fighter against fakes” Armen Sumbatovich Gasparyan spread a fake about me, which provoked his friends, fans of von Pannwitz from among the far-right youth, for my liquidation. The fact that these are now your hands, Comrade Colonel, is just a special case. The daimyo, who, by the will of the shogun, ordered the samurai to deprive himself of honor and refuse truthful words, should not feel remorse about this - he is simply a conductor of the higher will. Seppuku is optional in this case. Just never again tell your soldiers before battle, “You won’t change anything!” tell them what John Connor asked Kyle Reese to tell his mother - “There is no destiny except the one we create for ourselves.” That being said, let's personally say thank you to Jim Cameron for this wonderful film, right here in Hollywood. If I manage to “change something”, give me an example to the soldiers. In the samurai code “Bushido”, which was written down on paper at the moment when the samurai began to forget it, it is written, among other things: Often revenge consists of simply breaking into the enemy's house and dying. https://t.me/wehearfromyanina/3495 I don't need to rush into anything. Russia is my home, captured by enemies. Helpful ass lickers of the bosses. Generals who are ready to “sacrifice” thousands of soldiers just to “distinguish themselves.” Journalists who build their careers on lies from the screen. I'm not tired of fighting this. I always found new strength to fight. The doctors at the autopsy will probably be curious to know how I stayed on my feet all these years with such guts. Somehow he held on. I would find more strength, and more, but I don’t see the point in fighting further with the means that are available to me alive. They are exhausted, they have lost their effectiveness, and I take out the last resort. Dear friends, all those who have helped us all these years, all those who are waging this war with all their might, to the fullest, without truces and complacency, realizing that this war is a matter of life and death for the nation, started to protect our people from genocide! Friends! Don't be sad about my death. Let me spare you the pompous speeches at the funeral, I’ll say everything myself. Just bury me in the cemetery in Kirovsk (LPR), next to the soldiers of the “Ghost” battalion who died from the moment the Minsk agreements were signed until the start of the Northern Military District. Through their deeds and at the cost of their lives, they made possible the day when the desire to preserve and increase personal income nevertheless pushed our cowardly elite to give the order to our army to openly take up arms in defense of the Russian people in the Donbass. The adventure of the swindlers, who take the word “Russian” out of their pockets only when it suits them, naturally failed - the war began. Your job is to end this war with complete military Victory over everyone who takes up arms against Russia, who has risen to defend the Russians. Where this will be, in Kyiv or in Paris, from which the French leadership recently approved terror against our peaceful people in Belgorod, is a technical question. The more weapons these bastards give to the Ukrainian Nazis, the less they themselves will have. I bequeath it specifically to Commissioner Pashka! DO YOU HEAR? I bequeath you to live until Victory and sew uniforms for your guys from the best Parisian tailors, just like your favorite poet did! Just take a non-Capuchin monastery, your color is different. Just bury me next to ours and say, “He’s here among friends.” The first to die while I was serving in Prizrak was Sergei Mikhailovich Sereda, a driver from the support platoon. He was killed on January 29, 2019 by a Ukrainian ATGM at the Olimp KNP. Focus on his grave. I bequeath the rest of the soldiers of this war to never quarrel again about when to celebrate Defender of the Fatherland Day - February 22 or 23. Just drink for two days. Everyone who survives until Victory will have the right to this double day off on the 24th for the rest of their lives. And then it will become a tradition. Do not need anything else. Go back to your business and kill Ukrainian Nazis as efficiently as possible, with minimal losses. Glory to Russia, guys! Andrey Morozov, guard sergeant of the control company of the 4th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the RF Armed Forces (formerly - NM LPR) 02/21/2024 PS Don't be sad too much or too often. Dilute “Captain Alatriste”, “The Boat” and “When the Fanfare is Silent” with “Rick and Morty” and “Special Agent Archer”, as I did. If you can, get Kozitsyn, I myself can’t for obvious reasons. When such people die in old age from natural causes, it undermines the people's faith in the Supreme Justice. I am an unchurched person, but our people as a whole, especially in years of great trials, still need such support as Faith. Please, someone see to it that this scoundrel is hanged to his natural death. As it is written in the Bushido code: Recalling the story of the night attack of Mr. Asano's ronin, it should be said that they made a mistake by not committing seppuku in Shongakui, because they defeated the enemy too long after the death of their master. It would be regrettable if Mr. Kira died of illness during that time. P.P.S. https://t.me/wehearfromyanina/3496 And, of course, since Yudiya Vityazeva did not post the address where I could send a certificate about where I serve and by whom, I, as promised, am posting the statement to the military prosecutor’s office that was not accepted from the soldier of regiment 1487. Vladislav Ugolny promised to comment on it in detail. I ask him to elaborate on point 4 in as much detail as possible. If possible, Vladislav. Fine? This is about how the command of the hands of mercenaries turned the “mobs” into “penalties”. It seems that you have still analyzed my “forecasts”? Remember them when and if you find yourself in the next stream of mobilized people, who will actually be driven to slaughter not even with machine guns without heavy weapons, but with shovel handles. I wrote a year ago that we have run out of generals who learned to fight from Yuri Ozerov’s films, only generals left who learned to fight from Nikita Mikhalkov’s films. I wasn't joking. It’s just that people like Comrade Colonel and his soldiers changed a lot in my forecasts. With my help, with the help of the KCPN and the entire civil society of the country, it was they who “spinned the Earth back,” pushing off with their foot” from Uralkavkaz (Google where it is). [beginning of quoted document] To the Chief Military Prosecutor of the Russian Federation V.G. Petrov Appeal I, [the applicant’s full name can be viewed in an electronic copy of the document sent by a fighter to the Main Military Prosecutor’s Office via the website on February 6, 2024, incoming number - 405086], undergoing mobilization service in regiment 1487, field post unit 95411 in the 2nd battalion of the 6th company of the 1st platoon in the city Donetsk, under the command of the 1st Army Corps of the DPR Army, I ask you to conduct an inspection for the following reasons: 1. Providing weapons and transport From January 19, 2023, from the moment we arrived in the Northern Military District zone to the present day, our battalion does not have a single AGS or mortar to carry out effective offensive operations. There is also a complete lack of transport for offensive operations or evacuation and transportation of people. 2. Rotation At the moment, less than 30% of the personnel in the regiment remain, and to this day there has been no rotation or replenishment of the regiment’s personnel. Most are wounded, killed or missing. 3. Medical assistance Using my own example, I have a shell shock, I turned to the chief medical officer of the regiment about my injury, to which this serviceman said that the shell shock is not considered a wound and did not put me on the list of wounded after completing the combat mission. So I went to the hospital on my own, and I was prescribed medications, which I purchased at my own expense and were administered to me by a battalion medic. When the time came, after treatment in the dugout, to receive a certificate of injury 100, the chief medical officer of the regiment refused, to which I turned to the local doctors, and they gave it to me. At the moment, I received a payment from the President of the Russian Federation and from the city of St. Petersburg, but I handled these payments myself and the DPR army servicemen helped me process the payments, took me to hospitals and for medicines. I [the applicant’s full name can be viewed in the electronic copy of the document sent by the fighter to the GVP through the website on February 6, 2024, incoming number - 405086], after being wounded, I did not undergo military training, and I did not have rehabilitation (even rest from service). There are a lot of such cases of injuries not registered by the commander of the regiment; many servicemen were sent with concussion or shrapnel without VVC and rehabilitation back into battle where many died. 4. Transfer of the military regiment to other units In November 2023, the regiment’s command transferred 300 people to the command of the Veterans PMC, at the moment almost all of them were killed or wounded, and in all sectors of the Avdeevsky front we are commanded by the Veterans PMC. The message that they are in charge comes from the command of the 1st Army Corps of the DPR Army, in particular, the call sign “Crimea”. These military personnel of the PMC “Veterans”, I’m not afraid of this word, a rabble of former prisoners, drug addicts and looters, hiding behind the backs of our mobilized regiment, “carried out assault actions” without being present on the ground. After we occupied the lines, they came, filmed a video report, took weapons, armor plates from the dead, everything valuable, both from the Russian Army servicemen and from the enemies, and left… https://t.me/wehearfromyanina/3497 (Continued) …or into the “gray zone”, leaving us on the contact line. [end of quoted document] For those who have read this far, take a screenshot. They may delete it before the smartphone and laptop are given to “Akela” or Grubnik. I will put them and external hard drives with backups of KCPN reporting materials next to me so that they don’t look for them. There are 5 disks, one of them without a case. All documents will be there, in the waterproof wallet: Passport SNILS Both military IDs, Russian (according to which I am not fit for military service due to a chronic CVD disease) and LPR (according to which I am serving, thanks to the petition of our late battalion commander A.G. Markov, written to the corps corps-2 in January 2019) . A plastic card on which I received a salary (about 20 tr should remain on it, the rest of the cash should be there). The wallet contains 80 kopecks in ten-kopeck coins, the story of which can be told by several people, as well as a very rare souvenir banknote. In the event of my incapacity, for example, if I miss the shot or if just before the shooting someone breaks in and arrests me, my representative, a lawyer, will be a person who will present not only a second bill of the same kind, but also screenshots of my correspondence with him on this topic (so that he was my lawyer in case something happened) with a short background about the books. The general power of attorney for the disposal of all my property, signed by me earlier, in November 2023, will be presented by my classmate, who will be contacted by a lawyer. A classmate will show us a photo together at school, a lawyer will show a bill identical in everything except the number to the one that will be in the wallet. All the money received from the sale of my family's real estate, with the exception of money for the construction of a monument on the grave of my mother, O.G. Morozova, I ask you to send the 4th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the RF Armed Forces to equip it with freelance UAVs according to the plans previously drawn up by me together with Alexander Lyubimov. On the monument to my mother, I ask you to depict the “Energy”-“Buran” complex (make a flying “Buran”, probably) in the creation and launch of which she took part as one of the engineers at the Tushinsky Machine-Building Plant. https://t.me/wehearfromyanina/3498 Some background posts, hidden because this is already a lot. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: I’m not certain what’s going on here, but Mrs. Strelkov is very upset, quoted below. I have no words. I'm horrified by this news. Andrei was a very bright person, Igor and I knew each other. At the cost of his life, he proved that honor and truth are dearer to him. What killed him should be known to as many people as possible. https://t.me/strelkovii/6723 ETA-Andrey Morozov = "Murz", and this is a suicide note. I won’t tell you all the events of the past day, February 20th. The investigation will establish, hehe. I'll be brief, about ten pages. If it is posted crookedly, the text is in a docx file on the desktop of the laptop, the file is called “ad mirabile futurum”. Having finished scaring me, pressuring me, convincing me, making sure that in front of them is a person who is not afraid of anything or portrays it very convincingly, many people in my life gave me their last argument - “You won’t change this!” Today I talked to a man who, knowing me a little, started right away with this. “You won't change this. The elections will be held, and the changes will begin.” I didn’t tell him the meme “Putin and expensive gasoline - 20 years of solving the problem,” let him, I think, look for himself. Look at this meme, Comrade Colonel. Today, Comrade Colonel, on your order, I was forced to delete the post from my telegram channel “They write to us from Ioannina.” And your command forced you to give this order, relying on good old army collective responsibility. If it doesn’t remove it, we won’t provide supplies. Shells. Copters. New tanks and infantry fighting vehicles. And he, your command, was forced to do this by political prostitutes led by Vladimir Solovyov, who are pissing themselves to come and pull the trigger. Well, I'll do it myself. I will shoot myself if no one dares to take on this trifling matter. And they will give you tanks and copters. It turned out that I cannot serve under your command, under the command of a man who took over a decapitated brigade in a critical situation in a critical area and “removed” the situation, I cannot serve under you and, at the same time, tell the truth. Demand that the military prosecutor's office in St. Petersburg listen to the shell-shocked soldier near Avdeevka. And, perhaps, other similar soldiers who saw everything and know everything, but cannot tell because they are intimidated. If I “can’t change anything,” then you will have to win the war yourself with what you have. IF. From February 21, 2024, you can safely tell everyone who calls you that I do not serve you, and there are no problems with me. Don’t torment yourself, Comrade Colonel, I am a soldier like all your other soldiers. I died in battle. Igor “Bereg,” a few days before the fateful trip a year ago, told me at our location in Kirovsk, drinking a craft Calvados that I kept in my storeroom, “You know, Murz, I figured out how to explain to myself what the fuck I’m doing here.” ! I am an ordinary Lebanese political strategist. I just have a very strange project!” So, Comrade Colonel, I am a soldier like everyone else, I just have a very strange battle, which I have been waging since June 20, 2005. My enemies do not come to fight me in hand-to-hand combat, they attack me with the hands of others. Approximately the same way they tried to do it, for example, on May 11, 2007, when the current “conscience of the nation” and “fighter against fakes” Armen Sumbatovich Gasparyan spread a fake about me, which provoked his friends, fans of von Pannwitz from among the far-right youth, for my liquidation. The fact that these are now your hands, Comrade Colonel, is just a special case. The daimyo, who, by the will of the shogun, ordered the samurai to deprive himself of honor and refuse truthful words, should not feel remorse about this - he is simply a conductor of the higher will. Seppuku is optional in this case. Just never again tell your soldiers before battle, “You won’t change anything!” tell them what John Connor asked Kyle Reese to tell his mother - “There is no destiny except the one we create for ourselves.” That being said, let's personally say thank you to Jim Cameron for this wonderful film, right here in Hollywood. If I manage to “change something”, give me an example to the soldiers. In the samurai code “Bushido”, which was written down on paper at the moment when the samurai began to forget it, it is written, among other things: Often revenge consists of simply breaking into the enemy's house and dying. https://t.me/wehearfromyanina/3495 I don't need to rush into anything. Russia is my home, captured by enemies. Helpful ass lickers of the bosses. Generals who are ready to “sacrifice” thousands of soldiers just to “distinguish themselves.” Journalists who build their careers on lies from the screen. I'm not tired of fighting this. I always found new strength to fight. The doctors at the autopsy will probably be curious to know how I stayed on my feet all these years with such guts. Somehow he held on. I would find more strength, and more, but I don’t see the point in fighting further with the means that are available to me alive. They are exhausted, they have lost their effectiveness, and I take out the last resort. Dear friends, all those who have helped us all these years, all those who are waging this war with all their might, to the fullest, without truces and complacency, realizing that this war is a matter of life and death for the nation, started to protect our people from genocide! Friends! Don't be sad about my death. Let me spare you the pompous speeches at the funeral, I’ll say everything myself. Just bury me in the cemetery in Kirovsk (LPR), next to the soldiers of the “Ghost” battalion who died from the moment the Minsk agreements were signed until the start of the Northern Military District. Through their deeds and at the cost of their lives, they made possible the day when the desire to preserve and increase personal income nevertheless pushed our cowardly elite to give the order to our army to openly take up arms in defense of the Russian people in the Donbass. The adventure of the swindlers, who take the word “Russian” out of their pockets only when it suits them, naturally failed - the war began. Your job is to end this war with complete military Victory over everyone who takes up arms against Russia, who has risen to defend the Russians. Where this will be, in Kyiv or in Paris, from which the French leadership recently approved terror against our peaceful people in Belgorod, is a technical question. The more weapons these bastards give to the Ukrainian Nazis, the less they themselves will have. I bequeath it specifically to Commissioner Pashka! DO YOU HEAR? I bequeath you to live until Victory and sew uniforms for your guys from the best Parisian tailors, just like your favorite poet did! Just take a non-Capuchin monastery, your color is different. Just bury me next to ours and say, “He’s here among friends.” The first to die while I was serving in Prizrak was Sergei Mikhailovich Sereda, a driver from the support platoon. He was killed on January 29, 2019 by a Ukrainian ATGM at the Olimp KNP. Focus on his grave. I bequeath the rest of the soldiers of this war to never quarrel again about when to celebrate Defender of the Fatherland Day - February 22 or 23. Just drink for two days. Everyone who survives until Victory will have the right to this double day off on the 24th for the rest of their lives. And then it will become a tradition. Do not need anything else. Go back to your business and kill Ukrainian Nazis as efficiently as possible, with minimal losses. Glory to Russia, guys! Andrey Morozov, guard sergeant of the control company of the 4th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the RF Armed Forces (formerly - NM LPR) 02/21/2024 PS Don't be sad too much or too often. Dilute “Captain Alatriste”, “The Boat” and “When the Fanfare is Silent” with “Rick and Morty” and “Special Agent Archer”, as I did. If you can, get Kozitsyn, I myself can’t for obvious reasons. When such people die in old age from natural causes, it undermines the people's faith in the Supreme Justice. I am an unchurched person, but our people as a whole, especially in years of great trials, still need such support as Faith. Please, someone see to it that this scoundrel is hanged to his natural death. As it is written in the Bushido code: Recalling the story of the night attack of Mr. Asano's ronin, it should be said that they made a mistake by not committing seppuku in Shongakui, because they defeated the enemy too long after the death of their master. It would be regrettable if Mr. Kira died of illness during that time. P.P.S. https://t.me/wehearfromyanina/3496 And, of course, since Yudiya Vityazeva did not post the address where I could send a certificate about where I serve and by whom, I, as promised, am posting the statement to the military prosecutor’s office that was not accepted from the soldier of regiment 1487. Vladislav Ugolny promised to comment on it in detail. I ask him to elaborate on point 4 in as much detail as possible. If possible, Vladislav. Fine? This is about how the command of the hands of mercenaries turned the “mobs” into “penalties”. It seems that you have still analyzed my “forecasts”? Remember them when and if you find yourself in the next stream of mobilized people, who will actually be driven to slaughter not even with machine guns without heavy weapons, but with shovel handles. I wrote a year ago that we have run out of generals who learned to fight from Yuri Ozerov’s films, only generals left who learned to fight from Nikita Mikhalkov’s films. I wasn't joking. It’s just that people like Comrade Colonel and his soldiers changed a lot in my forecasts. With my help, with the help of the KCPN and the entire civil society of the country, it was they who “spinned the Earth back,” pushing off with their foot” from Uralkavkaz (Google where it is). [beginning of quoted document] To the Chief Military Prosecutor of the Russian Federation V.G. Petrov Appeal I, [the applicant’s full name can be viewed in an electronic copy of the document sent by a fighter to the Main Military Prosecutor’s Office via the website on February 6, 2024, incoming number - 405086], undergoing mobilization service in regiment 1487, field post unit 95411 in the 2nd battalion of the 6th company of the 1st platoon in the city Donetsk, under the command of the 1st Army Corps of the DPR Army, I ask you to conduct an inspection for the following reasons: 1. Providing weapons and transport From January 19, 2023, from the moment we arrived in the Northern Military District zone to the present day, our battalion does not have a single AGS or mortar to carry out effective offensive operations. There is also a complete lack of transport for offensive operations or evacuation and transportation of people. 2. Rotation At the moment, less than 30% of the personnel in the regiment remain, and to this day there has been no rotation or replenishment of the regiment’s personnel. Most are wounded, killed or missing. 3. Medical assistance Using my own example, I have a shell shock, I turned to the chief medical officer of the regiment about my injury, to which this serviceman said that the shell shock is not considered a wound and did not put me on the list of wounded after completing the combat mission. So I went to the hospital on my own, and I was prescribed medications, which I purchased at my own expense and were administered to me by a battalion medic. When the time came, after treatment in the dugout, to receive a certificate of injury 100, the chief medical officer of the regiment refused, to which I turned to the local doctors, and they gave it to me. At the moment, I received a payment from the President of the Russian Federation and from the city of St. Petersburg, but I handled these payments myself and the DPR army servicemen helped me process the payments, took me to hospitals and for medicines. I [the applicant’s full name can be viewed in the electronic copy of the document sent by the fighter to the GVP through the website on February 6, 2024, incoming number - 405086], after being wounded, I did not undergo military training, and I did not have rehabilitation (even rest from service). There are a lot of such cases of injuries not registered by the commander of the regiment; many servicemen were sent with concussion or shrapnel without VVC and rehabilitation back into battle where many died. 4. Transfer of the military regiment to other units In November 2023, the regiment’s command transferred 300 people to the command of the Veterans PMC, at the moment almost all of them were killed or wounded, and in all sectors of the Avdeevsky front we are commanded by the Veterans PMC. The message that they are in charge comes from the command of the 1st Army Corps of the DPR Army, in particular, the call sign “Crimea”. These military personnel of the PMC “Veterans”, I’m not afraid of this word, a rabble of former prisoners, drug addicts and looters, hiding behind the backs of our mobilized regiment, “carried out assault actions” without being present on the ground. After we occupied the lines, they came, filmed a video report, took weapons, armor plates from the dead, everything valuable, both from the Russian Army servicemen and from the enemies, and left… https://t.me/wehearfromyanina/3497 (Continued) …or into the “gray zone”, leaving us on the contact line. [end of quoted document] For those who have read this far, take a screenshot. They may delete it before the smartphone and laptop are given to “Akela” or Grubnik. I will put them and external hard drives with backups of KCPN reporting materials next to me so that they don’t look for them. There are 5 disks, one of them without a case. All documents will be there, in the waterproof wallet: Passport SNILS Both military IDs, Russian (according to which I am not fit for military service due to a chronic CVD disease) and LPR (according to which I am serving, thanks to the petition of our late battalion commander A.G. Markov, written to the corps corps-2 in January 2019) . A plastic card on which I received a salary (about 20 tr should remain on it, the rest of the cash should be there). The wallet contains 80 kopecks in ten-kopeck coins, the story of which can be told by several people, as well as a very rare souvenir banknote. In the event of my incapacity, for example, if I miss the shot or if just before the shooting someone breaks in and arrests me, my representative, a lawyer, will be a person who will present not only a second bill of the same kind, but also screenshots of my correspondence with him on this topic (so that he was my lawyer in case something happened) with a short background about the books. The general power of attorney for the disposal of all my property, signed by me earlier, in November 2023, will be presented by my classmate, who will be contacted by a lawyer. A classmate will show us a photo together at school, a lawyer will show a bill identical in everything except the number to the one that will be in the wallet. All the money received from the sale of my family's real estate, with the exception of money for the construction of a monument on the grave of my mother, O.G. Morozova, I ask you to send the 4th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the RF Armed Forces to equip it with freelance UAVs according to the plans previously drawn up by me together with Alexander Lyubimov. On the monument to my mother, I ask you to depict the “Energy”-“Buran” complex (make a flying “Buran”, probably) in the creation and launch of which she took part as one of the engineers at the Tushinsky Machine-Building Plant. https://t.me/wehearfromyanina/3498 Some background posts, hidden because this is already a lot. I don’t know if you understood what Murz wrote (https://t.me/wehearfromyanina/3464) - but he very clearly formulated what everyone here feels in their liver. The withdrawal of enemy troops from Avdeevka is the only right decision, taking into account the “jumps” of the Russian Federation on Avdeevka, built on the principle “so that everything is ready for the elections, otherwise they will scold you.” Such attacks are a consequence of the absence of eggs of testosterone deficiency in persons called upon to report to the top about the incorrectness of decisions made. Although, I am absolutely sure there are worthy confidants. But that's not what this conversation is about. I’ll translate from Murzovoy to the generally accepted one, although everything is already clear to those here. Avdeevka was given to us. Combat-ready enemy units retreated to defensive lines prepared in advance. The enemy was not destroyed, exsanguinated, or weakened. The equipment was not destroyed. The enemy was released without asking us, just without giving each retreater an iPhone, in the best traditions. The degenerals reported that we were developing an offensive (in the area of the second and third echelons of defense, which took 8 years to build, without ways to supply our own troops?). Like, the enemy is running, we throw a cradle in his back, and God forbid he stops, he will tear the poor unfortunates apart from our kindness... Now the facts. The Novogrodovka-Progress-Ocheretino defense line has been built by Ukrainian troops since the beginning of the battle for Donetsk in 2014. Retreating there does not in any way make the VFU troops vulnerable. They were vulnerable on the way there, but how much do we know about the burned columns of Ukrainians?.. Nothing. Why? Because until the last minutes of the battles there was no isolation of the battlefield. The enemy could move completely and freely to Avdeevka, Lastochkino, Tonenkoye. Can we advance greatly and beat the fleeing non-brothers to Kyiv? No we can not. There are no roads. And there are no engineering services capable of solving this problem. Or rather, they exist somewhere – but it’s very far away. I haven't seen any. The task of “go and gain a foothold” is solved on personal enthusiasm. Until recently, BC, food and water were delivered there by caravans of people dragging 20-50 kilograms on their own humps. Estimate the distance to Khimik yourself. Well, now, knowing these facts, re-read what Murz wrote again. Not about losses - those who died cannot be brought back, but those who committed them are 146% likely to get promoted. Think about who is lying to you and who you can listen to. And then draw conclusions. Where are the long-range mining systems? Where is long-range reconnaissance? Where are the prisoners, yat?.. Surprise, timeliness, consistency? Oh yes, the 17th is just around the corner. A small victorious operation. In Donbass this is once again felt very clearly. There was an ominous spirit of agreement in the air. https://t.me/wehearfromyanina/3483 Further back, this and the bolded above seem to be referencing a “Lone Survivor” mentioned a couple days ago who allegedly tried to file a complaint about his command and was refused and told they’re already being honored as heroes. And yes, Julia, since you have closed comments, I will make this proposal here. I, as a serviceman of the Russian Armed Forces, have the right to receive an official certificate stating where I serve and in what rank. To provide it to organizations that require confirmation of my service. This data is not a military secret, except in certain cases provided for by law. I can’t post here, for example, my current DBK, which takes me beyond the checkpoint from the front line of “prohibition” and the “curfew” of our “Bakhmut Group” to real civilization, to Tatyana Nikolaevna Montyan’s borscht and the “Jim’s” coffee shop on the intersection of Shevchenko and Chelyuskintsev, where I buy Ethiopian coffee. In order not to reveal anything in the BRK that the enemy could use in his own interests, I will have to blur it out in too many places, including the seals and signatures of the command staff. And everyone here will tell me “hahaha, you typed it yourself.” Therefore, it is easier to obtain a certificate as a means of proving that I am not a camel. So here's the proposal. You are not banned from my comments. Write the address where I can send you this certificate stating that I am not a camel, but a serviceman of the RF Armed Forces, indicating my place of service, position, and so on. And you will publish it yourself. This will be the first step towards officially shooting me for fakes and alarmism. As a military serviceman, I cannot be imprisoned for spreading panic. During special operations, I SHOULD be shot for this. Preferably before the formation. And I don’t mind at all, I repeat. But before I die, I want to see the criminal case against regiment 1487. Which was not among those who “distinguished themselves” for Avdeevka, although they were completely wiped out by it, I repeat, until the control company and the regiment’s command ran into the attack. Before I die, I want to read an explanation, at least someone’s OFFICIAL explanation, of who, how and why drove the St. Petersburg mobs to slaughter. You posted my words that “soon the mobs will be driven into battle with shovel handles.” In the fighter’s appeal, which the military prosecutor’s office did NOT ACCEPT in January of this year, although it did not have such a right, it is written, among other things: “From January 19, 2023, from the moment we arrived in the Northern Military District zone, to this day, our battalion has not had a single AGS or mortar to carry out effective offensive operations.” In principle, half the road has been covered to reach the cuttings. How do you think? If the infantry does not even have the minimum that it was entitled to back in the Great Patriotic War - mortars. AGSs were not yet in service at that time. I won’t say that during the Second World War it was always, always provided for, this is the minimum, but I think that in a year under Stalin they would have been able to issue a battery of 82-mm mortars to the battalion. At least. Let's dream about 120 mm, but at least 82 mm. Think about where I should send you this certificate stating that I am on active service in the 4th Guards Motorized Rifle Brigade of the Russian Armed Forces. I'll give you a day. In a day, if I don’t see the address for sending in any of the posts on your channel, I will post here the full text of the fighter’s statement, which he submitted to the prosecutor’s office on January 19 and was NOT ACCEPTED by the prosecutor’s office. There will be personal and collegial indications of those who participated in the slaughter of the regiment. Not only that. This fighter. a real front-line soldier, shell-shocked near Avdeevka, “not like Murz,” when he heard from a prosecutor’s office employee that he and his friends simply had to die quietly so that the scum driving them to meat would be declared heroes and strategists, he turned to me through a chain of mutual acquaintances , to the “fat privateer” for help and assistance in restoring justice. And it’s a matter of my conscience to help this fighter, proving that I could have gotten fat over the past years from sedentary work at the computer, but not lost the personal courage that I had 9 years ago, when I walked with my battalion at night to Debal, although I had a lot good reasons not to go there. Ending. https://t.me/wehearfromyanina/3480 It sucks that we are losing another very good and accurate source of what was happening to the Russian army on the tactical level.  Now to find the honest replacement. |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 8:38:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#4]
Watch out for that second one, Mac, it's a Lulu.
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Posted: 2/21/2024 8:39:59 AM EST
[#5]
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USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 8:41:04 AM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
It is my sincere hope someone in Ukraine decides: - stop wasting resources hitting Russian in Africa, and - hit Russia’s oil pipelines and refineries. Hard. Repeatedly. Refineries are flammable. Pipelines travel through remote areas. Do the needful, Ukraine. Collapse Putin’s entire regime. |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 8:45:12 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex9661: Everything you just wrote applies to men of Moscow and St. Petersburg as well, and that's about 16% of Russian military aged males. On top of that, 400,000 of Russian males who were willing or could be conned or forced to fight are pushing daisies, and that number is growing by 700-1000 every day. True. And I dont really know how many "tough" men Europe could generate but I'm betting it will be hard to keep up with Russia, just based on a % of the population used to austere conditions. Due to all the corruption, ineptitude, abuse, depravity and general shit conditions in Russia .vs Europe (and the USA) I bet they have more men willing to shit and live in a hole without food or the comforts of home. I will also argue that unlike other wars, especially WWI, the total population of a nation (worthy and willing or not) is much less important that technological and industrial capacity. A dozen "nerds" with soft delicate hands pushing buttons for precision fires and drone armadas are much better that 1000 hard men doing a meat attack. The problem happens when you use up all the PGM's and or have parity and it turns "old fashioned"... |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 8:46:12 AM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: It is my sincere hope someone in Ukraine decides: - stop wasting resources hitting Russian in Africa, and - hit Russia’s oil pipelines and refineries. Hard. Repeatedly. Refineries are flammable. Pipelines travel through remote areas. Do the needful, Ukraine. Collapse Putin’s entire regime. Agreed. How do you defeat the gas station that masquerades as a country? Go after the gas station. |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 8:47:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#9]
Very interesting stuff.
Also, neutral particle beams are really good at penetrating, for example ICBM missile bodies and destroying their electronics. Fun fact.
Look at the note at the bottom, they are seeing usefulness for directed energy systems for missile defense.  "High Powered Strategic Lasers" Reagan has got to be smiling.  This goes back a bit and was tested in space.  The NPB has the capability to be used as both a weapon and discriminator platform. It can kill missiles and reentry vehicles in the boost, post-boost, and mid-course portion of an ICBM trajectory as well as discriminated objects during the midcourse phase. Supposedly in orbit in 2023. https://dsiac.org/articles/pentagon-aims-to-loft-particle-beam-anti-missile-weapon-into-space-in-four-years/ When this beam of charged particles hits something it produces effects similar to that of laser, namely extreme heat on the surface of the target capable of burning a hole through certain materials depending on the strength of the weapon. If the particles are not sufficently powerful to destroy something such as a missile or reentry vehicle, they may still be able to pass through the outer shells of those targets and disrupt, damage, or destroy internal components, similar broadly to how a microwave weapon functions. In addition, since particle beams respond different to different materials, there is the potential that the system might also have the capability to discriminate between real incoming warheads a ballistic missile has released and decoys. Seperate sensors would be necessary to observe the impacts and categorize the results. But if it worked, this would help other ballistic missile defense systems, which generally have short engagement windows to begin with, focus only on actual threats. The characteristics of these particles would make it hard, if not impossible for an opponent to shield their weapons from the effects or otherwise employ countermeasures, short of destroying the NPB itself, as well. All of this has long made the potential of a particle beam weapon attractive, especially for missile defense. 
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Posted: 2/21/2024 8:57:18 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: -A reminder and warning to those participating in this thread- This thread from the beginning has been about the Ukraine/Russia War, and in-theater events. This kept out the "fuck Ukraine", "its all a grift", "give the big guy 10%", "Ukraine has always been Russia" arguments that were there just to make the thread unreadable, and just like dozens of other threads about the same conflict, all with the same people spouting the same thing. This thread was treated different. Now, because many want the congressional bill passed, it's what some want to argue about. There have been a bunch of anti-republican, anti-trump, domestic border, comments posted around this issue. Those arguments and discussions are already happening in dozens of other threads. Letting them run here, only invites the trolls, who would be able to respond with "10% to the Big guy!!!" If we allow the other. Those who slide the topic with congressionl spending or presidential politics opinion posts will be thread banned, warned, or both. Thank you for the detailed explanation. It is helpful to those of us wondering why we are seeing so many deleted posts by long contributing members. Back to the topic at hand, here is a short WSJ article featuring analysis by Budanov: Ukraine’s Military Spy Chief Says Russia Will Struggle to Keep Up the Fight I always enjoy reading anything featuring Budanov. I like the way he thinks. |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 8:59:13 AM EST
[#11]
Drone operators hit.
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Posted: 2/21/2024 9:00:34 AM EST
[#12]
If other countries chip in they can get it all to Ukraine.
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Posted: 2/21/2024 9:06:18 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: As I said awhile ago. Reliable supplies of shitty weapons, plus an unwavering commitment to victory even in the face of appalling casualties > the worlds finest weapons sitting in a warehouse because of softcocks and retards running the West are unwilling to use them. https://cdn.quotenova.net/images/authors/b/bruce-lee/bruce-lee-quote-x54794--portrait-background-189-1200x630.jpg Very true and well stated. |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 9:06:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#14]
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Posted: 2/21/2024 9:09:09 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Very true and well stated. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: As I said awhile ago. Reliable supplies of shitty weapons, plus an unwavering commitment to victory even in the face of appalling casualties > the worlds finest weapons sitting in a warehouse because of softcocks and retards running the West are unwilling to use them. https://cdn.quotenova.net/images/authors/b/bruce-lee/bruce-lee-quote-x54794--portrait-background-189-1200x630.jpg Very true and well stated. True, but they will lose the war because of a lack of equipment and missing infrastructure. |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 9:09:15 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Very interesting stuff. Also, neutral particle beams are really good at penetrating, for example ICBM missile bodies and destroying their electronics. Fun fact.
Look at the note at the bottom, they are seeing usefulness for directed energy systems for missile defense. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG0UAzBXsAEwfZ6?format=png&name=4096x4096 "High Powered Strategic Lasers" Reagan has got to be smiling. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG0Uy3WWIAAmy9j?format=png&name=4096x4096 This goes back a bit and was tested in space. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG0XstAW0AEYy20?format=png&name=medium Supposedly in orbit in 2023. https://dsiac.org/articles/pentagon-aims-to-loft-particle-beam-anti-missile-weapon-into-space-in-four-years/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG03cC4XEAA3-hP?format=png&name=900x900 Seems like this would have applications far beyond a space based sensor/weapon. If it can be launched into orbit, a ship or ground based solution should be trivial. |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 9:10:45 AM EST
[#17]
NSFW.
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Posted: 2/21/2024 9:13:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonKey153: Seems like this would have applications far beyond a space based sensor/weapon. If it can be launched into orbit, a ship or ground based solution should be trivial. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonKey153: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Very interesting stuff. Also, neutral particle beams are really good at penetrating, for example ICBM missile bodies and destroying their electronics. Fun fact.
Look at the note at the bottom, they are seeing usefulness for directed energy systems for missile defense. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG0UAzBXsAEwfZ6?format=png&name=4096x4096 "High Powered Strategic Lasers" Reagan has got to be smiling. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG0Uy3WWIAAmy9j?format=png&name=4096x4096 This goes back a bit and was tested in space. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG0XstAW0AEYy20?format=png&name=medium Supposedly in orbit in 2023. https://dsiac.org/articles/pentagon-aims-to-loft-particle-beam-anti-missile-weapon-into-space-in-four-years/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG03cC4XEAA3-hP?format=png&name=900x900 Seems like this would have applications far beyond a space based sensor/weapon. If it can be launched into orbit, a ship or ground based solution should be trivial. Everything the interested mind wanted to know is here, and yes, along with lasers, ground based installations with huge power supplies are a thing: https://medium.com/@toughsfmatterbeam/particle-beams-in-space-the-full-beginners-guide-298d1f6c7eda  Just the tip.  The ‘Report to the American Physical Society of the study group on science and technology of directed energy weapons’ is the golden reference for its section on Neutral Particle Beam weapons. Two damage mechanisms prevail for the heavy ion particle beams discussed so far: radiation dose and volumetric heating. High energy particles are considered as penetrating radiation. They do not deposit all of their energy on a target’s surface, but travel through a certain depth of matter before stopping. The depth depends on the properties of the beam and density of the target material. All energies discussed in this post are more than enough completely strip any electrons from an impacting particle. In fact, the target material acts like a 100% effective stripper. This is why the particles from a neutral hydrogen beam will be referred to as protons, and why previously neutral particles are described as ion in the following sections. Whatever passes through the radiation shielding is fully absorbed by people or electronics. People and electronics do not like being hit by high energy particles. If the beam can be held on the target for just one minute, it can be lethal at a distance of 0.46 million km. Electronics do not fare much better. 
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Posted: 2/21/2024 9:33:18 AM EST
[#19]
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WI, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 9:48:09 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: -A reminder and warning to those participating in this thread- This thread from the beginning has been about the Ukraine/Russia War, and in-theater events. This kept out the "fuck Ukraine", "its all a grift", "give the big guy 10%", "Ukraine has always been Russia" arguments that were there just to make the thread unreadable, and just like dozens of other threads about the same conflict, all with the same people spouting the same thing. This thread was treated different. Now, because many want the congressional bill passed, it's what some want to argue about. There have been a bunch of anti-republican, anti-trump, domestic border, comments posted around this issue. Those arguments and discussions are already happening in dozens of other threads. Letting them run here, only invites the trolls, who would be able to respond with "10% to the Big guy!!!" If we allow the other. Those who slide the topic with congressionl spending or presidential politics opinion posts will be thread banned, warned, or both. Thank you for clarifying. So off-topic digressions are okay, just not on DC funding debates or political candidates. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 10:00:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: Lieh-tzu]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: 1420 - has Putin made any mistakes? What about the SMO? Watch to see popular support for the president and the war.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg0v_7HiUMsAnything make you go  ? How about that claim that Ukraine invaded Russia first?  There's an additional point to bring up here (apologies for quoting my own post). If you have seen enough 1420 videos, you see there have been a number of people interviewed that report being 'from Donetsk' or from Donbas. Given that these street interviews are capturing very small pools of people, I think it's interesting that Ukrainian expats have come up repeatedly, seemingly not a tiny, isolated number. Maybe I'm reading too much into that. The people from Donetsk always seem to be happy to be in Russia and in support of the war, yet they're living in the heart of Russia. KaerMorhenResident has repeatedly mentioned that maybe Ukraine should just let Donbas go, since they're 'pro-Russian.' First, that was never true, as independent polling research showed. Second, a bunch of 'pro-Russian' Donbas residents fled for Russia anyway rather than stay in occupied Ukraine, so it's not like they really wanted to live in Donetsk but with Russian rule. If somehow Ukraine got enough aid to win the war, I still think pacifying and reintegrating Donbas would not be difficult. The truly 'pro-Russian' people are going to leave voluntarily, as they already are. Land will be dirt cheap. Just bring metal detectors. [img]/images/smilies/smiley_smartass.gif" /> |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 10:11:18 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Thank you for clarifying. So off-topic digressions are okay, just not on DC funding debates or political candidates. Lets keep it focused on this: -This thread from the beginning has been about the Ukraine/Russia War, and in-theater events. |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 10:13:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#23]
This road-mobile missile is capable of striking targets at a distance of between 300 and 700 km (186 and 435 miles) The shipments began in early January after a deal was finalised in meetings late last year between Iranian and Russian military and security officials that took place in Tehran and Moscow - Reuters Note that most of the sources are Iranian, and so far there have not been any identifiable pieces of these rockets like we have seen with the North Korean ones. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 10:34:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: Dominion21]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnka871: Agreed. How do you defeat the gas station that masquerades as a country? Go after the gas station. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnka871: Originally Posted By Dominion21: It is my sincere hope someone in Ukraine decides: - stop wasting resources hitting Russian in Africa, and - hit Russia’s oil pipelines and refineries. Hard. Repeatedly. Refineries are flammable. Pipelines travel through remote areas. Do the needful, Ukraine. Collapse Putin’s entire regime. Agreed. How do you defeat the gas station that masquerades as a country? Go after the gas station. Way up-thread, 4xGM300m wrote: Sorry. . . I'm becoming more and more convinced, that the West fears a Russian collapse if Ukraine wins this war. That's why they are giving just enough ammo and weapons for Ukraine to survive but not enough to push the Russians back to Mordor. A collapse of Russia and a possible civil war would change the world wide security situation, maybe the use of nuclear weapons in Russia or that any surving party would sell nuclear weapons to terrorists. The politicians fear that Russia is too big to fail and it would cause some serious trouble for the whole world, most likely worse than the problems they are causing now. “ END. I have read multiple sources all repeating the State Department is terrified of a Russian collapse. The “slow-rolling” of weapons to Ukraine is probably the State Department’s doing. While I personally hope for a Russian collapse, my guess is the State Department basis it’s fear on our decisive defeat of Sadaam Hussein’s regime in Iraq, without having a sufficient plan in place to deal with the resulting chaos and lack of a functioning government. Still: the threat to world peace from the Putin regime’s continued existence is greater than the regional threat of a Russian collapse. |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 10:46:46 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Shocking change (to me anyway growing up all through the Cold War). Wow! Some examples of operational equipment reductions from 1989 to 2024: Let's start with main battle tanks: 🇩🇪 3,892 -> 248 🇫🇷 1,297 -> 200 🇮🇹 1,206 -> 200 🇬🇧 855 -> 148 🇳🇱 750 -> 16 🇸🇪 660 -> 110 🇩🇰 330 -> 44 🇧🇪 296 -> 0 1/6 Unrolled thread with similar comparisons for artillery, navy, and fighter jets Yeah, it's depressing as fuck. I served in the Danish army until 1990. Back then, it was ALREADY depressing how under-equipped and under-funded we were. To think that now we look back at those days as the days when Europe actually had a "real" and somewhat credible defense is insane. Going from 330 tanks to 44 is pathetic. All the politicians basically convinced themselves that with the USSR (and WaPa) gone, there would never be war in Europe again, so they could justify gutting the military to spend more money on all their other bullshit pet projects. In the 1980s, Denmark has 12 infantry regiments. Today, I believe there are two. Two. Why even bother? I am VERY curious to see what will happen moving forward. Denmark supposedly is now spending enough that they do meet the 2% NATO guideline - but after neglecting the military for 30 years, I am not convinced an annual spend of 2% will really result in much. Countries who have allowed the military to wither away over the past several decades probably need to be spending something like 4-5% for a decade to get back to any serious capability, and THEN perhaps drop down to a sustained 2% level. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 11:21:52 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Way up-thread, 4xGM300m wrote: Sorry. . . I'm becoming more and more convinced, that the West fears a Russian collapse if Ukraine wins this war. That's why they are giving just enough ammo and weapons for Ukraine to survive but not enough to push the Russians back to Mordor. A collapse of Russia and a possible civil war would change the world wide security situation, maybe the use of nuclear weapons in Russia or that any surving party would sell nuclear weapons to terrorists. The politicians fear that Russia is too big to fail and it would cause some serious trouble for the whole world, most likely worse than the problems they are causing now. “ END. I have read multiple sources all repeating the State Department is terrified of a Russian collapse. The “slow-rolling” of weapons to Ukraine is probably the State Department’s doing. While I personally hope for a Russian collapse, my guess is the State Department bases it’s fear on our decisive defeat of Sadaam Hussein’s regime in Iraq, without having a sufficient plan in place to deal with the resulting chaos and lack of a functioning government. Still: the threat to world peace from the Putin regime’s continued existence is greater than the regional threat of a Russian collapse. Also note the previous posts by ItchyFinger: the State Dept was a useless hot mess in Afghanistan, and the cause of massive problems in Iraq. Iraq was indeed a mess after Saddam, but State created most of the problems that occurred in that area with their misguided ideas, wrongheaded approaches, and bad implementations. Our military was outstanding in Iraq. State was an unmitigated disaster of epic proportions. I have no doubt that the wool-heads in Foggy Bottom are creating no end of trouble with Ukraine, and fully expect that this is indeed the reason, the same concern R0N stated - what if what happens after Putin is worse? I repeat: that's not a reason to avoid doing what is right for Europe & Ukraine now. What is framed above is exactly one of Russia's fears, that we aim to cause a collapse greater than 1991 resulting in the breakup and destruction of the Russian Federation. That is not our aim, I think we all agree (well, most of us). Most people don't want to destroy Russia, we just want a Russia that is willing to live within its borders and under its treaties and international obligations and engage in free commerce. If Russia breaks itself apart over Ukraine, that's their fault and their problem, but according to international law and the treaties that Russia signed and ratified, Ukraine is a sovereign state with recognized borders. Nuclear non-proliferation is all but dead, because of what US did to Libya, and worse what Russia did to Ukraine. Maybe a breakup of the Russian Federation would trigger the world to rediscover the value of nonproliferation and we could bring that back. My assessment is that what happens after a Russian defeat in Ukraine (Putin's ouster) would indeed be worse, in the short run. An extremist replacement would not last long due to both internal and external resistance, and a future Russia would be what the world needs it to be: peaceful, reliable, with free commerce and stable relations. Russia gave North Vietnam all the support they needed to win their war. We should do the same for Ukraine. 
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USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 11:22:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: Dominion21]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Yeah, it's depressing as fuck. I served in the Danish army until 1990. Back then, it was ALREADY depressing how under-equipped and under-funded we were. To think that now we look back at those days as the days when Europe actually had a "real" and somewhat credible defense is insane. Going from 330 tanks to 44 is pathetic. All the politicians basically convinced themselves that with the USSR (and WaPa) gone, there would never be war in Europe again, so they could justify gutting the military to spend more money on all their other bullshit pet projects. In the 1980s, Denmark has 12 infantry regiments. Today, I believe there are two. Two. Why even bother? I am VERY curious to see what will happen moving forward. Denmark supposedly is now spending enough that they do meet the 2% NATO guideline - but after neglecting the military for 30 years, I am not convinced an annual spend of 2% will really result in much. Countries who have allowed the military to wither away over the past several decades probably need to be spending something like 4-5% for a decade to get back to any serious capability, and THEN perhaps drop down to a sustained 2% level. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By RockNwood: Shocking change (to me anyway growing up all through the Cold War). Wow! Some examples of operational equipment reductions from 1989 to 2024: Let's start with main battle tanks: 🇩🇪 3,892 -> 248 🇫🇷 1,297 -> 200 🇮🇹 1,206 -> 200 🇬🇧 855 -> 148 🇳🇱 750 -> 16 🇸🇪 660 -> 110 🇩🇰 330 -> 44 🇧🇪 296 -> 0 1/6 Unrolled thread with similar comparisons for artillery, navy, and fighter jets Yeah, it's depressing as fuck. I served in the Danish army until 1990. Back then, it was ALREADY depressing how under-equipped and under-funded we were. To think that now we look back at those days as the days when Europe actually had a "real" and somewhat credible defense is insane. Going from 330 tanks to 44 is pathetic. All the politicians basically convinced themselves that with the USSR (and WaPa) gone, there would never be war in Europe again, so they could justify gutting the military to spend more money on all their other bullshit pet projects. In the 1980s, Denmark has 12 infantry regiments. Today, I believe there are two. Two. Why even bother? I am VERY curious to see what will happen moving forward. Denmark supposedly is now spending enough that they do meet the 2% NATO guideline - but after neglecting the military for 30 years, I am not convinced an annual spend of 2% will really result in much. Countries who have allowed the military to wither away over the past several decades probably need to be spending something like 4-5% for a decade to get back to any serious capability, and THEN perhaps drop down to a sustained 2% level. Excellent insider-info as always; thanks!  Seeing the hard number RockNwood posted brings it in to painfully sharp focus: - NATO (and especially the EU members) failed miserably in maintaining basic readiness for the threats posed by The Russian Federation (let’s not forget its not just Russia), but other foreseeable threats, such as Iran and China. NATO countries who failed to abide by their obligation (meaning: mandatory) spending of 2% of GDP on their own, defensive military, have NO excuse whatsoever. As for Russia: Putin explicitly told the West he was preparing for war: https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/mar/19/russia-spending-700-billion-on-arms/ $700 BILLION (dollars, not rubles) invested in modernizing the Russian military since 2011. When the Russians (or now the Chinese) spend that amount of $$ on weapons, they plan to use them. But in 2011, the collective “West” ignored Russia. And now we are paying the price. NOTE: Greece - for all its financial mismanagement and chaos - did maintain a credible military. However, their motives have more to do with their historical fear of Turkey, and a desire to be ready, so as not to become the next Armenia. |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 11:30:53 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By apr67: I am suprised at this point that none of the countries directly threatened by Russia have created voulenteer groups to go fight. There are people from around the world who hate russia and are volunteering to fight there. A couple thousand pages back is a video of a jewish guy and a muslim guy sharing a trench, and talking about their hatred of russia overcomes their differences to unite in a common cause. |
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ESP
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Posted: 2/21/2024 11:37:35 AM EST
[#29]
Running Down Russian Armored Vehicles:
Combat Video from Ukrainian Militant: Intense Battles Around Avdiivka Are Ongoing: Smashing a Russian APC with a Ukrainian ATGM: |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 11:52:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#30]
Ugh.
https://www.dodig.mil/In-the-Spotlight/Article/3681630/press-release-evaluation-of-sustainment-strategies-for-the-patriot-air-defense/ These two evaluations found that the DoD had not developed or implemented a plan to sustain the Bradleys, Strykers, and Abrams armored vehicles or the Phased Array Tracking Radar to Intercept on Target (PATRIOT) air defense systems provided to the Ukrainian Armed Forces between January and September 2023. These reports concluded that without deliberate and planned sustainment support, including proper spare parts, ammunition, and maintenance support, the Ukrainians would not be capable of maintaining these weapon systems in their ongoing fight against Russia’s full-scale invasion. These two evaluations add to the DoD OIG’s growing body of work, providing oversight of the DoD’s support to Ukraine. "The DoD provided Ukraine with armored vehicles and air defense systems without a plan to ensure their long-term usefulness," said IG Storch. "While the DoD is currently working on developing such a plan, the lack of foresight in this matter is concerning, and should be rectified promptly." While conducting these evaluations, the DoD OIG also found that the DoD has provided limited spare parts, ammunition, and maintenance support following the transfer of these weapon systems to Ukraine and did not coordinate or tailor those efforts into a comprehensive sustainment plan. The absence of such planning puts at risk Ukraine’s ability to fight effectively using the U.S.-provided equipment, as well as the DoD’s readiness to address other national security threats if needed. “If the DoD does not identify the sustainment requirements for the weapon systems it provides to Ukraine, then it cannot accurately predict sustainment costs or assess the long-term readiness impacts to U.S. military units that also operate these systems,” said IG Storch. “If implemented, the recommendations in these reports will enhance the DoD’s readiness and its capability to provide more effective support to the Ukrainian Armed Forces.” To address the issues identified in these reports, the DoD OIG issued multiple recommendations addressing the need for the DoD to develop and implement a sustainment plan for each of the weapon systems. The DoD OIG will continue to monitor the DoD’s progress toward full implementation of these recommendations. |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 11:54:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: kpacman]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Yeah, it's depressing as fuck. I served in the Danish army until 1990. Back then, it was ALREADY depressing how under-equipped and under-funded we were. To think that now we look back at those days as the days when Europe actually had a "real" and somewhat credible defense is insane. Going from 330 tanks to 44 is pathetic. All the politicians basically convinced themselves that with the USSR (and WaPa) gone, there would never be war in Europe again, so they could justify gutting the military to spend more money on all their other bullshit pet projects. In the 1980s, Denmark has 12 infantry regiments. Today, I believe there are two. Two. Why even bother? @dk-prof My BIL was in the Marines about the same time you were with the Danes. He went on joint exercises with Danish soldiers, and he was surprised to see them with hair down to their shoulders and that they were also unionized! Don't know if that's still the case, but it really made me question how effective they would be in a tough fight. I could just imagine soldiers going to their union leader demanding less strenuous working conditions. I am VERY curious to see what will happen moving forward. Denmark supposedly is now spending enough that they do meet the 2% NATO guideline - but after neglecting the military for 30 years, I am not convinced an annual spend of 2% will really result in much. Countries who have allowed the military to wither away over the past several decades probably need to be spending something like 4-5% for a decade to get back to any serious capability, and THEN perhaps drop down to a sustained 2% level. @dk-prof My BIL was in the Marines about the same time you were with the Danes. He went on joint exercises with Danish soldiers, and he was surprised to see them with hair down to their shoulders and that they were also unionized! Don't know if that's still the case, but it really made me question how effective they would be in a tough fight. I could just imagine soldiers going to their union leader demanding less strenuous working conditions. |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 11:58:33 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts: Russia has a total population of like 127 million. It's not the Soviet Union by any means. Reduce that to fit, military-capable males and no way Russia will beat Europe based on manpower. I can beat any man in the history of the world, if he refuses to fight back |
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USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 12:06:13 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnka871: Agreed. How do you defeat the gas station that masquerades as a country? Go after the gas station. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnka871: Originally Posted By Dominion21: It is my sincere hope someone in Ukraine decides: - stop wasting resources hitting Russian in Africa, and - hit Russia’s oil pipelines and refineries. Hard. Repeatedly. Refineries are flammable. Pipelines travel through remote areas. Do the needful, Ukraine. Collapse Putin’s entire regime. Agreed. How do you defeat the gas station that masquerades as a country? Go after the gas station. But there is a big question: How much the oil price will increase if Russia can't sell anymore?   |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 12:09:08 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: But there is a big question: How much the oil price will increase if Russia can't sell anymore? I dont care
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IN, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 12:14:02 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Excellent insider-info as always; thanks! Seeing the hard number RockNwood posted brings it in to painfully sharp focus: - NATO (and especially the EU members) failed miserably in maintaining basic readiness for the threats posed by The Russian Federation (let’s not forget its not just Russia), but other foreseeable threats, such as Iran and China. NATO countries who failed to abide by their obligation (meaning: mandatory) spending of 2% of GDP on their own, defensive military, have NO excuse whatsoever. As for Russia: Putin explicitly told the West he was preparing for war: https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/mar/19/russia-spending-700-billion-on-arms/ $700 BILLION (dollars, not rubles) invested in modernizing the Russian military since 2011. When the Russians (or now the Chinese) spend that amount of $$ on weapons, they plan to use them. But in 2011, the collective “West” ignored Russia. And now we are paying the price. NOTE: Greece - for all its financial mismanagement and chaos - did maintain a credible military. However, their motives have more to do with their historical fear of Turkey, and a desire to be ready, so as not to become the next Armenia. Things like this is why I think that some people have very unrealistic expectations as to how much it would cost to fully support Ukraine. It will take trillions of US dollars (and/or Euros) worth of aid for Ukraine to win. Just compare the cost of a Patriot missile compared to a cheap Iranian Shahed drone. Western developed arms are not cheap to begin with. A few Abrams and Leopards, Bradleys, F16s; despite the propaganda, is not gonna be a game changer. It simply isn't enough. People say, pay a little now so that US blood will not have to be spilt on European soil again. I disagree. If victory is the goal (retaking all territories), then NATO will have to fully jump in and that's not looking likely. The realistic option remaining that I see for Ukraine is to concede territory for peace and have a security agreement that allows NATO to be stationed and have bases on the remainder of Ukrainian soil to prevent future Russian incursion. The chances that Russia would allow NATO to be stationed in Ukraine post war? Practically 0. At current rate, it does not end well for Ukraine. There needs to be major changes in the political will of the US and Europe and so far, it's not looking good. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 12:17:55 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: But there is a big question: How much the oil price will increase if Russia can't sell anymore? In 2021, Russia accounted for 11.8% of all oil exported in the global market, the #2 producer behind Saudi Arabia. |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 12:24:08 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Evintos: Things like this is why I think that some people have very unrealistic expectations as to how much it would cost to fully support Ukraine. It will take trillions of US dollars (and/or Euros) worth of aid for Ukraine to win. Just compare the cost of a Patriot missile compared to a cheap Iranian Shahed drone. Western developed arms are not cheap to begin with. A few Abrams and Leopards, Bradleys, F16s; despite the propaganda, is not gonna be a game changer. It simply isn't enough. People say, pay a little now so that US blood will not have to be spilt on European soil again. I disagree. If victory is the goal (retaking all territories), then NATO will have to fully jump in and that's not looking likely. The realistic option remaining that I see for Ukraine is to concede territory for peace and have a security agreement that allows NATO to be stationed and have bases on the remainder of Ukrainian soil to prevent future Russian incursion. The chances that Russia would allow NATO to be stationed in Ukraine post war? Practically 0. At current rate, it does not end well for Ukraine. There needs to be major changes in the political will of the US and Europe and so far, it's not looking good. What we spend in Ukraine to stop russia is a tiny fraction of what we spent over the previous 80 years to counter the threat. Russia has finally stepped on their dick hard enough for us to use all the shit we spent money on in the last 30 years to take them out. We can do it with little risk to personnel, with arms that were paid for a decades ago. Russia needs to be told the truth. You suck, and are a worthless cancer on humanity. You need to pull out of Ukraine completely or everyone there will be living in the dark and shitting in a hole. |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 12:25:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: lorazepam]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: In 2021, Russia accounted for 11.8% of all oil exported in the global market, the #2 producer behind Saudi Arabia. All we have to do is drill and pump, and take up the slack. Edit: We make money on the oil, and when Ukraine gets up and running on all the oil discovered in their territory they can help to take up the slack. |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 12:34:11 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By yekimak: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/66660/IMG_20240220_180414_274_jpg-3135850.JPG I chuckled |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 12:39:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: Evintos]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: What we spend in Ukraine to stop russia is a tiny fraction of what we spent over the previous 80 years to counter the threat. Russia has finally stepped on their dick hard enough for us to use all the shit we spent money on in the last 30 years to take them out. We can do it with little risk to personnel, with arms that were paid for a decades ago. Russia needs to be told the truth. You suck, and are a worthless cancer on humanity. You need to pull out of Ukraine completely or everyone there will be living in the dark and shitting in a hole. Yeah but that's my point. We're sending a fraction, a trickle. The remainder of stuff that we could send are expensive and in low quantity, in comparison to the high quantity of "cheap but good enough" items that Russia is using (manufactured by themselves, Iran, North Korea, China). US and EU don't seem to WANT to send what they built up to supposedly fight the USSR. EU NATO could've had more to send had they actually contributed enough into their defense (2% GDP) during GWOT after Article 5 was triggered and EU NATO would've built up their military capacity utilizing cheap Russian energy resources. Instead they decided to do stupid shit and now they're scrambling trying to figure out how to bolster their own defenses while keeping Russia at bay with Ukraine. EU/NATO gambled on the Russian threat being nonexistent and lost. At current observation, the only way to get game changing amounts for Ukraine is for the US and NATO to jump into the fight directly. Instantly 30-80 years (trillions) worth of equipment (not including manpower) available to defeat Russia back. I simply do not see that the small amounts that we do send as being enough to take Russia out. In my opinion, risk to personnel will be a necessity (if the US and EU actually want to defeat Russia that is). |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 12:44:04 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Evintos: Things like this is why I think that some people have very unrealistic expectations as to how much it would cost to fully support Ukraine. It will take trillions of US dollars (and/or Euros) worth of aid for Ukraine to win. Just compare the cost of a Patriot missile compared to a cheap Iranian Shahed drone. Western developed arms are not cheap to begin with. A few Abrams and Leopards, Bradleys, F16s; despite the propaganda, is not gonna be a game changer. It simply isn't enough. People say, pay a little now so that US blood will not have to be spilt on European soil again. I disagree. If victory is the goal (retaking all territories), then NATO will have to fully jump in and that's not looking likely. The realistic option remaining that I see for Ukraine is to concede territory for peace and have a security agreement that allows NATO to be stationed and have bases on the remainder of Ukrainian soil to prevent future Russian incursion. The chances that Russia would allow NATO to be stationed in Ukraine post war? Practically 0. At current rate, it does not end well for Ukraine. There needs to be major changes in the political will of the US and Europe and so far, it's not looking good. Lack of clarity in establishing goals and lack of serious understanding were critical failures for US & western leadership. Russia began its buildup in March '21, and declared many times in the years prior that Ukraine had no right to exist as a sovereign nation. Shame on US leaders for failing to listen, take this seriously, and decide on effective responses. If driving Russia out had been deemed the appropriate goal in late 2021, there was time to make that possible. Russia's initial invasion was seriously under strength for real war, they only planned a lightning decapitation strike but failed. Had Ukraine been properly prepared with sufficient aid upfront, Ukraine's goal of driving Russia out would have been achievable. It also would have required a far smaller investment of aid, training, & equipment if it had been done early. Giving Russia opportunity to dig in, reinforce, call up & transfer massive additional troops & equipment has made the task pretty unlikely, barring some major change. Russia has no say in whether Ukraine joins NATO. If Ukraine survives to any extent, the only way to prevent more war there in the future is admitting them to NATO. It's the only security guarantee for Ukraine that is strong enough to be viable. Nothing has really changed since May 2022. Ukraine survives with western aid and hopes that killing enough Russians will force a collapse or withdrawal. Russia's path to victory is outlasting that aid. |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 12:53:25 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Evintos: Things like this is why I think that some people have very unrealistic expectations as to how much it would cost to fully support Ukraine. It will take trillions of US dollars (and/or Euros) worth of aid for Ukraine to win. Just compare the cost of a Patriot missile compared to a cheap Iranian Shahed drone. Western developed arms are not cheap to begin with. A few Abrams and Leopards, Bradleys, F16s; despite the propaganda, is not gonna be a game changer. It simply isn't enough. People say, pay a little now so that US blood will not have to be spilt on European soil again. I disagree. If victory is the goal (retaking all territories), then NATO will have to fully jump in and that's not looking likely. The realistic option remaining that I see for Ukraine is to concede territory for peace and have a security agreement that allows NATO to be stationed and have bases on the remainder of Ukrainian soil to prevent future Russian incursion. The chances that Russia would allow NATO to be stationed in Ukraine post war? Practically 0. At current rate, it does not end well for Ukraine. There needs to be major changes in the political will of the US and Europe and so far, it's not looking good. Disagree 100%. Not supporting Ukraine now will cost US much much more in the future. Again, few folks are talking about defeating Russia like Nazi Germany in '45, raising flags on a bombed-out Kremlin, putting Pitin on trail... We just have to convince Putin that we will do everything necessary to keep him from taking all of Ukraine. Instead of showing him weakness and decreasing commitment, we should be showing him steel. Once further attacks on Ukraine prove to be futile and costly with NOTHING GAINED, then maybe he will be convinced. Most likely, it will take UA advancing and progressively retaking territory to convince Putin. Then there may be some good faith negotiations. It will be up to the Ukrainians to decide how much blood is worth Crimea and bombed out Dondas/Luhansk. I also doubt Ukraine can retake 100% but we must convince Putin that he cannot take 100% but right now all he see's is the opposite. 300 Abrams, 300 Bardleys, 100 F16's and a few hundred ATACMS. Hell if we were in a hurry to win, then send Tomahawks and 300Km range ATAMS. Had we sent this shit in late 2022 or early 2023 it could have been over by now. But here we are arguing over shipping costs and elections... |
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USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 1:18:42 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Disagree 100%. Not supporting Ukraine now will cost US much much more in the future. Again, few folks are talking about defeating Russia like Nazi Germany in '45, raising flags on a bombed-out Kremlin, putting Pitin on trail... We just have to convince Putin that we will do everything necessary to keep him from taking all of Ukraine. Instead of showing him weakness and decreasing commitment, we should be showing him steel. Once further attacks on Ukraine prove to be futile and costly with NOTHING GAINED, then maybe he will be convinced. Most likely, it will take UA advancing and progressively retaking territory to convince Putin. Then there may be some good faith negotiations. It will be up to the Ukrainians to decide how much blood is worth Crimea and bombed out Dondas/Luhansk. I also doubt Ukraine can retake 100% but we must convince Putin that he cannot take 100% but right now all he see's is the opposite. 300 Abrams, 300 Bardleys, 100 F16's and a few hundred ATACMS. Hell if we were in a hurry to win, then send Tomahawks and 300Km range ATAMS. Had we sent this shit in late 2022 or early 2023 it could have been over by now. But here we are arguing over shipping costs and elections... I think the concern is that if we send all that, China might take a more active role in helping Russia. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 1:21:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: Evintos]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Disagree 100%. Not supporting Ukraine now will cost US much much more in the future. Again, few folks are talking about defeating Russia like Nazi Germany in '45, raising flags on a bombed-out Kremlin, putting Pitin on trail... We just have to convince Putin that we will do everything necessary to keep him from taking all of Ukraine. Instead of showing him weakness and decreasing commitment, we should be showing him steel.Once further attacks on Ukraine prove to be futile and costly with NOTHING GAINED, then maybe he will be convinced.Most likely, it will take UA advancing and progressively retaking territory to convince Putin. Then there may be some good faith negotiations. It will be up to the Ukrainians to decide how much blood is worth Crimea and bombed out Dondas/Luhansk. I also doubt Ukraine can retake 100% but we must convince Putin that he cannot take 100% but right now all he see's is the opposite. 300 Abrams, 300 Bardleys, 100 F16's and a few hundred ATACMS. Hell if we were in a hurry to win, then send Tomahawks and 300Km range ATAMS. Had we sent this shit in late 2022 or early 2023 it could have been over by now. But here we are arguing over shipping costs and elections... The bold is where I think we share similar observations and agreement, but we have arrived at different conclusions. I'm not arguing for a decrease in aid. I'm arguing for a level of aid that I don't think is possible/probable (due to a totality of individuals' national interests, example being we in the US need to save enough for possible conflict with China in Taiwan) in order to achieve the outcomes. The level of commitment is not enough. Had we sent it 2014, immediately after Russia invaded Crimea, yes, the relatively small amount of aid (ATACMs, HIMARs, Abrams, Bradleys, etc) would've been enough to prevent the start of the '22 invasion (as well as retake Crimea). Even if the equipment in the current amounts were sent in late summer 2022 (start training of the crew immediately after the start of the '22 invasion, for a minimum of a 6 month training cycle), I don't think it would've been enough and that there would've been continued fighting to this day as Russia would've been committed to the invasion. I think we're far enough past the stage of "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" that it's going to require multiple pounds of cure. Part of which means, preparing the population of the US and EU mentally for the possibility of direct confrontation with Russia (and of course that would mean Iran, China, essentially WW3) despite the amount aid given so far. I think the mentality needs to shift from something like "give now or pay later" to something more along the lines of "give now and still might have to pay later." Maybe I'm a WW3 doomer, but I think it's coming whether we want it to or not. I also think it's better to be prepared and then later go, hey it was a big nothing burger but at least we don't have millions dying in a global conflict. Edit - US actions now in Ukraine to me is similar enough to US actions in regards to Georgia and South Ossetia in 2008 that I think the results will be largely similar. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 1:22:57 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kingsmen: I think the concern is that if we send all that, China might take a more active role in helping Russia. What would they do that they aren't doing already? |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 1:25:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#46]
These are the newest Lancet that outlines possible targets, then guides automatically to it. Notice how it likes to latch onto squared edges.
It has some bugs.
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Posted: 2/21/2024 1:52:30 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Yeah, it's depressing as fuck. I served in the Danish army until 1990. Back then, it was ALREADY depressing how under-equipped and under-funded we were. To think that now we look back at those days as the days when Europe actually had a "real" and somewhat credible defense is insane. Going from 330 tanks to 44 is pathetic. All the politicians basically convinced themselves that with the USSR (and WaPa) gone, there would never be war in Europe again, so they could justify gutting the military to spend more money on all their other bullshit pet projects. In the 1980s, Denmark has 12 infantry regiments. Today, I believe there are two. Two. Why even bother? I am VERY curious to see what will happen moving forward. Denmark supposedly is now spending enough that they do meet the 2% NATO guideline - but after neglecting the military for 30 years, I am not convinced an annual spend of 2% will really result in much. Countries who have allowed the military to wither away over the past several decades probably need to be spending something like 4-5% for a decade to get back to any serious capability, and THEN perhaps drop down to a sustained 2% level. Yup. It's like Europe collectively decided that war just wasn't going to happen anymore. Oops. |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 1:56:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#48]
NSFW, pink mist moment, then the tank explodes.
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Posted: 2/21/2024 2:04:05 PM EST
[#49]
Ukraine's military intelligence chief said Russian strength is "faltering" on the front lines, but warns that🇺🇦needs more Western aid to withstand🇷🇺assault this year before counterattacking a weakened Russia's forces in 2025. |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 2:08:33 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Very interesting stuff. Also, neutral particle beams are really good at penetrating, for example ICBM missile bodies and destroying their electronics. Fun fact.
Look at the note at the bottom, they are seeing usefulness for directed energy systems for missile defense. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG0UAzBXsAEwfZ6?format=png&name=4096x4096 "High Powered Strategic Lasers" Reagan has got to be smiling. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG0Uy3WWIAAmy9j?format=png&name=4096x4096 This goes back a bit and was tested in space. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG0XstAW0AEYy20?format=png&name=medium Supposedly in orbit in 2023. https://dsiac.org/articles/pentagon-aims-to-loft-particle-beam-anti-missile-weapon-into-space-in-four-years/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG03cC4XEAA3-hP?format=png&name=900x900 If I'm reading this right, it means we need not fear any country's nuclear missile threat since we can destroy them at will. |
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