Originally Posted By Brok3n:
Gonzalo Lira dead in Ukrainian prison

Originally Posted By fadedsun:



I don’t think there are any western weapons capable of hitting the bears that far behind the lines.

Maybe it’s time for a modern version of the phoenix.

Side note: Anyone have a video of page explaining the differences between the iris t and the nasams?

All I get on Yt are the generic spam sites

I don’t think there are any western weapons capable of hitting the bears that far behind the lines.

It has been reported that after the 2024 fiscal year, the MRC ground-based missile complex will be integrated with a new variant of the SM-6 missile called SM-6 Block IV, which is expected to have a hypersonic (exceeding Mach 5) speed and an increased range for targeting ground and surface targets, estimated at up to 400 miles (740 kilometres). These enhanced capabilities will be achieved by equipping the missile with a larger-diameter solid rocket motor (21 inches or 533 millimetres), replacing the standard 13.5-inch (343-millimetre) solid rocket motor used on current SM-6 missiles, while simultaneously reducing the size of the missile’s fins and stabilisers to fit within the diameter of the Mk 41 Universal Vertical Launch System cells. The SM-6 Block IV missile is also expected to have a more powerful warhead (the current SM-6 missile has a warhead weighing only 140 pounds or 64 kilograms).

Maybe it’s time for a modern version of the phoenix.

Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:





There is, SM-6.  

Air launching it would give an already known 200 mile range missile even more range.  But you need to fly out there part way to use it regardless of the weapon.
https://aviationweek.com/sites/default/files/styles/crop_freeform/public/2021-04/174113536_10216934427306795_1706156476083338582_n.jpg?itok=lJuoS-yX






That would be the AIM-120 "D" series, which is publicly listed at 100 miles. Or if you needed even more range, the AIM-260 JATM.



Hopefully this page showing IRIS-T and NASAMS will be helpful.

https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20230710.aspx#:~:text=The%20IRIS%2DT%20missile%20has,a%20range%20of%2030%20kilometers

Originally Posted By strykr:

Is this the incident you mentioned? 2 Sukhois vs 8 F-16s? It reads like a small skirmish rather than an all out dogfight. I do not think many would argue that the R-77 is better than the AIM-120. Yet the 3 AIM-120 missiles launched also missed the mark. R-77-1 does have higher range than the R-77 model that India used.

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/indian-sukhois-counterattacked-pak-f16-jets-during-2019-combat/
https://www.eurasiantimes.com/india-upgrading-su-30mki-after-pakistani-f-16-outperformed-russian-build-fighter-jets/

While the R-37M would have a lower chance of scoring the hit, it will still force the F-16 to take evasive action or risk getting shot down. Other than the report I've posted about them downing the Su-27 with it, there is also mention of Su-57 using R-37M in Ukraine with a successful kill. But it is hard to tell how reliable these reports are. When the Ukrainian pilot must start the fight dodging 2 R-37M missiles before even getting the first launch, the odds are not in his favor. And the Sukhoi can simply turn around and fly back to Russia, where the Ukrainian fighter cannot follow due to political reasons.

Russia has over 200 Sukhois just from the modern variants, not counting the older Su-27s and such. I think we have a tendency to overestimate the impact of Western fighter jets. It is not just a question of technical superiority, but whether they can be employed in numbers to make an actual difference. The F-16 is a good low cost fighter jet, but there is a reason it is being replaced. Rafale/Eurofighter are modern jets with more modern systems. Plus unlike the F-16, they have the capability to employ the Meteor missile, which seems better than the R-37M.

Sure, well trained pilots will do well against third world countries. But going up against Russian jets with experienced pilots and SAMs on the ground is a different thing altogether. Ukraine has received modern Leopards, yet was not able to employ them nearly as effectively as NATO forces. USAF pilots also fly way more hours than their counterparts. That will not be the case for the green Ukrainian pilots coming out of fighter school. I do not know how "good" the current Ukrainian Mig-29 pilots are. It does not seem to me that they are making a big difference taking out lots of SAM sites, but I could be wrong.

I do hope that the training of Ukrainian pilots is ahead of the reports. Maybe they have lots of trained pilots, just trying to keep it secret until the jets arrive. But from what I see, there is no political will to escalate the fight with Russia. There is little appetite on the West to sacrifice potentially dozens or hundreds of F-16s, while also educating Russia how to best counter them. The reason Ukraine are not getting the fighter jets may simply be because the US does not believe they would be able to employ them effectively and/or are not willing to bear the financial burden of it. That is the decision of the people in power, whether we agree with it or not. I think the only way we'll see significant impact is if a NATO country gets directly involved, flying missions with experienced pilots, which is unlikely.

Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:



If you want to keep the engagements simple, as a Ukrainian F-16 pilot, I keep my radar off and fly low in the ground clutter well within the safe coverage of Ukrainian SAM and Patriot sites that will be letting me know when they detect something out there.  I'll get some info from the NATO E-3's on where the Russian aircraft are and their headings as well.  All I have to do then is stay in the clutter and fly close enough to passively launch my AIM-120 C's at them and then quickly turn away back into the clutter and safety of my own ground based SAM network.  Rinse and repeat, any Russian bomber groups trying to fly at medium and high altitude to lob glide bombs is going to get it in the face from the F-16's.  Any Russian jet foolish enough to try and go after an F-16 is going to get picked off from a NASAMS or Patriot.

Originally Posted By fadedsun:
I don’t think there are any western weapons capable of hitting the bears that far behind the lines.

Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:

Russia T-90M Breakthrough Tank was hit by Ukrainian artillery near Avdiivka

\uD83C\uDFA5 110 OMBr pic.twitter.com/9gv0ujlzcU

Getty  (@region776) January 13, 2024

Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:

\uD83C\uDDFA\uD83C\uDDE6Ukrainian soldiers of CSO "A" of the SBU destroys Orcs and their equipment in Bakhmut direction

Employees of the Security Service of Ukraine work 24/7 so that the occupiers do not trample Ukrainian land pic.twitter.com/uG3igY00Pt

— Cloooud |\uD83C\uDDFA\uD83C\uDDE6 (@GloOouD) January 13, 2024

Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:


Devil is in the details.

F-16's don't have to fly high to lob HARMS at short range SAM sites.  You use your Storm Shadows to take out the big SAM coverage areas to allow the F-16's to go after the short and medium range SAMs near the front lines at first, they might get some breathing room if some of the S-400 and S-300 engagement radars are taken out.  If the F-16's come with weapons like SLAM-ER's, then you can go for their longer range SAM radar.

And correct, the Russian bombers don't fly over Ukrainian airspace, they actually drop their crappy glide bombs about 40 km from the front lines and turn around I have observed.  They also have to fly pretty high to achieve that range for the bombs.  If you know they are on the way, and my worst F-16 radar variant has an 83km range under jamming and heavy clutter conditions then I'll bet I can make sure the Russian bombers are flying toward my AIM-120's that their radar warning receivers aren't giving them any warnings about, until perhaps 5 seconds before impact.  You can stay low and in the clutter, even if ranges are shorter, the Russian radar has proven they aren't good at catching the Ukrainian Migs in the ground clutter with their missiles.  However, my AIM-120, is now looking up against the backdrop of the sky, and fat strike aircraft heading toward it.  Hard to dodge a passively fired active radar missile fired at closer range that is coming from in under your aircraft.


This is exactly the Russian bomb lobbing capability that the F-16's can stop.  The Patriot unit in the South recently stopped this practice, now you have a mobile F-16 force that can lob AMRAAM's at anyone trying to do the same in other regions.

Originally Posted By Capta:

Solid gold.  One of the best armor combat videos of the war.

Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea:
So far no real updates on Patriot Canada promised to donate

The U.S. Army awarded a $1.2 billion contract to Raytheon Technologies Co (RTX.N) for six National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile Systems (NASAMS) for Ukraine on Wednesday, the Pentagon said.

The United States has approved sending Ukraine a total of eight NASAMS to help fend off Russian missile and drone attacks.

Ukraine received its first delivery of two NASAMS air defense systems in November. Others will be delivered in future months once they are built.

the Ukrainian government asked the U.S. for urgently needed help. The initial U.S. response was that it usually takes two years to get a system on contract, then two more to build and deliver it—about a 4-5-year process.

Ukraine’s reaction, according to an official involved at Raytheon, a division of RTX, was: “Are you kidding me?”

That exchange spurred Raytheon and partner Kongsberg to break records by begging, borrowing and “stealing” equipment to rapidly surge the National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile System (Nasams) to Ukrainian forces, which were using it to defend population centers by the end of 2022. The system is now a crucial piece of Ukraine’s networked air defenses, with successive deliveries of aid from the U.S., including more ammunition for the launchers.

“The main driver for this program was the motivation and the people,” Laura Bear, Raytheon’s program manager for medium-range air defense, said in a presentation at Aviation Week’s A&D Programs Conference on Nov. 8. “I think we made it very clear throughout the organization that every single person played an incredibly important part in this program. Whether you were logistics packaging a box, whether you were the guy turning a screw on the floor of the factory, your efforts within days or weeks could be implemented and needed in Ukraine.”

The procurement was the first Foreign Military Sales case for the Nasams, and it involved a customer within the U.S. government—the Army’s Program Executive Office Missiles and Space—that was not aware beforehand it would be facilitating a transfer to Ukraine. The office had also never previously worked with Nasams.

To speed up delivery, the U.S. government gave Raytheon Nasams kits from its stocks and asked the company for reimbursement instead of contracting new-build equipment. With that expediency, two kits were sold and shipped off within one day of contract award, Bear said