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MI, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:12:06 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: thats another false statement... ffs man learn some facts.. Ukraine aid is the most Audited aid ever given to any country in the history of the USA foriegn aid Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By Jaehaerys: Anyone boiling down the pro-Ukrainian position to supporting 'what is best for Zelensky' is being inherently dishonest and deceitful, which I suppose shouldn't be surprising at this point. Overall, the focus on Zelensky from the right is absurdly moronic, and it (perhaps intentionally) misses the big picture of what is going on here. This conflict boils down to a people resisting blatantly genocidal imperialism from a state that denies they have a right to exist, steals and indoctrinates hundreds of thousands of their children, uses their men from occupied territory as cannon fodder, rapes their women as a matter of policy, uses them as forced labor, runs numerous torture chambers in occupied territory, etc. Zelensky is a temporary executive of the will of the people (in before the inevitable "Zelensky is a dictator who banned all future elections!!!!1!!1!!!1"). Focusing in on him obfuscates the reality of the situation. The reality of the situation is that the US is funneling billions of dollars of unaudited dollars into a country that paid Hunter millions of unaudited dollars. America has much more pressing concerns. The war in Ukraine could be over this afternoon if they agreed to give up some bits that no Ukranian gives a fuck about. But I guess Nuland's opinion should drive the fate of the region? thats another false statement... ffs man learn some facts.. Ukraine aid is the most Audited aid ever given to any country in the history of the USA foriegn aid Like, super ultra audited? Shit, that changes my entire opinion. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:15:57 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: The reality of the situation is that the US is funneling billions of dollars of unaudited dollars into a country that paid Hunter millions of unaudited dollars. America has much more pressing concerns. The war in Ukraine could be over this afternoon if they agreed to give up some bits that no Ukranian gives a fuck about. But I guess Nuland's opinion should drive the fate of the region? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By Jaehaerys: Anyone boiling down the pro-Ukrainian position to supporting 'what is best for Zelensky' is being inherently dishonest and deceitful, which I suppose shouldn't be surprising at this point. Overall, the focus on Zelensky from the right is absurdly moronic, and it (perhaps intentionally) misses the big picture of what is going on here. This conflict boils down to a people resisting blatantly genocidal imperialism from a state that denies they have a right to exist, steals and indoctrinates hundreds of thousands of their children, uses their men from occupied territory as cannon fodder, rapes their women as a matter of policy, uses them as forced labor, runs numerous torture chambers in occupied territory, etc. Zelensky is a temporary executive of the will of the people (in before the inevitable "Zelensky is a dictator who banned all future elections!!!!1!!1!!!1"). Focusing in on him obfuscates the reality of the situation. The reality of the situation is that the US is funneling billions of dollars of unaudited dollars into a country that paid Hunter millions of unaudited dollars. America has much more pressing concerns. The war in Ukraine could be over this afternoon if they agreed to give up some bits that no Ukranian gives a fuck about. But I guess Nuland's opinion should drive the fate of the region? Not a single word you wrote has any basis in reality. Amazing, truly amazing. In spite of being asked to provide proof of the alleged embezzling of funds sent to Ukraine, you provided absolutely nothing, and instead opted to insult people who asked you for proof. You have absolutely no proof other than your feelings and shouting "I JUST KNOW" at the top of your lungs. The reality of the situation is that the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians have stated that they want to fight until they liberate all of their land. That sort of throws a wrench in your "no Ukrainian gives a fuck about that land" narrative, now doesn't it? Additionally, the idea that the war could be over if Ukraine just ceded some territory is absurdly, laughably ignorant. It has been made clear time and time again that Russia does not accept Ukraine's right to exist, does not view Ukrainians as being a people that exist separate from Russia, etc. Ceding territory to Russia without concrete security guarantees for Ukraine (that is, NATO membership) ensures that the conflict will just restart once again in a few years. The Nuland talking point is, once again, par for the course. I honestly doubt there's anything you wouldn't find a way to blame on the US regarding this conflict, regardless of the mental gymnastics required to do so. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:16:46 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: Like, super ultra audited? Shit, that changes my entire opinion. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By Jaehaerys: Anyone boiling down the pro-Ukrainian position to supporting 'what is best for Zelensky' is being inherently dishonest and deceitful, which I suppose shouldn't be surprising at this point. Overall, the focus on Zelensky from the right is absurdly moronic, and it (perhaps intentionally) misses the big picture of what is going on here. This conflict boils down to a people resisting blatantly genocidal imperialism from a state that denies they have a right to exist, steals and indoctrinates hundreds of thousands of their children, uses their men from occupied territory as cannon fodder, rapes their women as a matter of policy, uses them as forced labor, runs numerous torture chambers in occupied territory, etc. Zelensky is a temporary executive of the will of the people (in before the inevitable "Zelensky is a dictator who banned all future elections!!!!1!!1!!!1"). Focusing in on him obfuscates the reality of the situation. The reality of the situation is that the US is funneling billions of dollars of unaudited dollars into a country that paid Hunter millions of unaudited dollars. America has much more pressing concerns. The war in Ukraine could be over this afternoon if they agreed to give up some bits that no Ukranian gives a fuck about. But I guess Nuland's opinion should drive the fate of the region? thats another false statement... ffs man learn some facts.. Ukraine aid is the most Audited aid ever given to any country in the history of the USA foriegn aid Like, super ultra audited? Shit, that changes my entire opinion. And your concern about "more pressing" issues here in the USA, we have the ability to handle those, its our fucked up government not doing anything about those issues is the problem. Its not due to aid going to Ukraine. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:21:26 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: And your concern about "more pressing" issues here in the USA, we have the ability to handle those, its our fucked up government not doing anything about those issues is the problem. Its not due to aid going to Ukraine. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By Jaehaerys: Anyone boiling down the pro-Ukrainian position to supporting 'what is best for Zelensky' is being inherently dishonest and deceitful, which I suppose shouldn't be surprising at this point. Overall, the focus on Zelensky from the right is absurdly moronic, and it (perhaps intentionally) misses the big picture of what is going on here. This conflict boils down to a people resisting blatantly genocidal imperialism from a state that denies they have a right to exist, steals and indoctrinates hundreds of thousands of their children, uses their men from occupied territory as cannon fodder, rapes their women as a matter of policy, uses them as forced labor, runs numerous torture chambers in occupied territory, etc. Zelensky is a temporary executive of the will of the people (in before the inevitable "Zelensky is a dictator who banned all future elections!!!!1!!1!!!1"). Focusing in on him obfuscates the reality of the situation. The reality of the situation is that the US is funneling billions of dollars of unaudited dollars into a country that paid Hunter millions of unaudited dollars. America has much more pressing concerns. The war in Ukraine could be over this afternoon if they agreed to give up some bits that no Ukranian gives a fuck about. But I guess Nuland's opinion should drive the fate of the region? thats another false statement... ffs man learn some facts.. Ukraine aid is the most Audited aid ever given to any country in the history of the USA foriegn aid Like, super ultra audited? Shit, that changes my entire opinion. And your concern about "more pressing" issues here in the USA, we have the ability to handle those, its our fucked up government not doing anything about those issues is the problem. Its not due to aid going to Ukraine. The lack of anything being done such as the rampant crime and homeless out of control is just political experiments designed. Lots of leftist politicians will be out of the job if problems were solved. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:23:50 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: And your concern about "more pressing" issues here in the USA, we have the ability to handle those, its our fucked up government not doing anything about those issues is the problem. Its not due to aid going to Ukraine. So you and Biden say. Yet reality disagrees. Stop funding Nuland's jihad to make Crimea Ukrainian, which it never was. It's just stupid at this point. Ukraine could have won this many months and thousands of lives ago. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:25:18 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: So you and Biden say. Yet reality disagrees. Stop funding Nuland's jihad to make Crimea Ukrainian, which it never was. It's just stupid at this point. Ukraine could have won this many months and thousands of lives ago. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By AROKIE: And your concern about "more pressing" issues here in the USA, we have the ability to handle those, its our fucked up government not doing anything about those issues is the problem. Its not due to aid going to Ukraine. So you and Biden say. Yet reality disagrees. Stop funding Nuland's jihad to make Crimea Ukrainian, which it never was. It's just stupid at this point. Ukraine could have won this many months and thousands of lives ago.  Attached File |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:29:10 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jaehaerys: Originally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By AROKIE: And your concern about "more pressing" issues here in the USA, we have the ability to handle those, its our fucked up government not doing anything about those issues is the problem. Its not due to aid going to Ukraine. So you and Biden say. Yet reality disagrees. Stop funding Nuland's jihad to make Crimea Ukrainian, which it never was. It's just stupid at this point. Ukraine could have won this many months and thousands of lives ago. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/temp-95.gif Is all well on the Fulda Gap front? |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:32:52 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: Is all well on the Fulda Gap front? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By Jaehaerys: Originally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By AROKIE: And your concern about "more pressing" issues here in the USA, we have the ability to handle those, its our fucked up government not doing anything about those issues is the problem. Its not due to aid going to Ukraine. So you and Biden say. Yet reality disagrees. Stop funding Nuland's jihad to make Crimea Ukrainian, which it never was. It's just stupid at this point. Ukraine could have won this many months and thousands of lives ago. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/temp-95.gif Is all well on the Fulda Gap front? Considering that I was born post-1991, your assessment that I'm a crusty old Cold Warrior is, once again, totally detached from reality. I'm starting to notice a pattern here... In any event, I'm done engaging with you and derailing the thread. Good luck in all future endeavors. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:34:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood]
[#9]
Since we have the putrid aroma of defeatism and isolationism wafting on the breeze, here is an article that shows how those sentiments are in perfect alignment with Joe Biden and his administration.
https://open.substack.com/pub/thebulwark/p/ukraine-doesnt-need-armchair-generals And of course are straight from the Russian MoD talking points. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:36:15 AM EDT
[#10]
 Ukraine Update with Andrew and Charles 2023-8-25 |
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USA
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:37:24 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: So you and Biden say. Yet reality disagrees. Stop funding Nuland's jihad to make Crimea Ukrainian, which it never was. It's just stupid at this point. Ukraine could have won this many months and thousands of lives ago. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By AROKIE: And your concern about "more pressing" issues here in the USA, we have the ability to handle those, its our fucked up government not doing anything about those issues is the problem. Its not due to aid going to Ukraine. So you and Biden say. Yet reality disagrees. Stop funding Nuland's jihad to make Crimea Ukrainian, which it never was. It's just stupid at this point. Ukraine could have won this many months and thousands of lives ago. Oh please. Are you just trolling? |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:39:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Tomislav]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jaehaerys: Considering that I was born post-1991, your assessment that I'm a crusty old Cold Warrior is, once again, totally detached from reality. I'm starting to notice a pattern here... In any event, I'm done engaging with you and derailing the thread. Good luck in all future endeavors. Awesome, the opinion of a propaganda-gobbling millenial. Meanwhile, inflation is crazy high, boys are getting their dicks cut off by their parents, political imprisonment is happening on a regular basis, and anti-white racism is pretty much de jure, but you hard chargers got a warboner for Urozhaine? Not sure some of you have your priorities straight... |
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USA
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:42:54 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: 
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F4Z0853XsAAAl2f?format=jpg&name=900x900 He was featured in multiple interviews over the past year and explained how the air war was being conducted. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/inside-ukraines-desperate-fight-against-drones-with-mig-29-pilot-juice https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/2022/12/12/IMG_1644-scaled.jpg?auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=1920 Heroiam Slava |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:45:39 AM EDT
[#14]
Russia is crumbling on the front. Private fourth class Milley ought to eat his big ass drawers for saying the offensive has failed and UA will never take Melitopol. He should be demoted to Surrender Monkey First Class with a yellow stripe.
Click To View Spoiler |
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USA
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:46:00 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: Awesome, the opinion of a propaganda-gobbling millenial. Meanwhile, inflation is crazy high, boys are getting their dicks cut off by their parents, political imprisonment is happening on a regular basis, and anti-white racism is pretty much de jure, but you hard chargers got a warboner for Urozhaine? Not sure some of you have your priorities straight... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By Jaehaerys: Considering that I was born post-1991, your assessment that I'm a crusty old Cold Warrior is, once again, totally detached from reality. I'm starting to notice a pattern here... In any event, I'm done engaging with you and derailing the thread. Good luck in all future endeavors. Awesome, the opinion of a propaganda-gobbling millenial. Meanwhile, inflation is crazy high, boys are getting their dicks cut off by their parents, political imprisonment is happening on a regular basis, and anti-white racism is pretty much de jure, but you hard chargers got a warboner for Urozhaine? Not sure some of you have your priorities straight... Aside from all the CoC violations in your post, is it your view that we cannot focus on domestic issues and foreign issues at the same time? Why should we lie down and miss the opportunity to take out an enemy? |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:46:30 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Well we can go back to the Clinton/Yeltsin years: https://assets.editorial.aetnd.com/uploads/2018/04/when-a-russian-president-ended-up-drunk-and-disrobed-outside-the-white-houses-featured-photo.jpg?width=1920&height=960&crop=1920%3A960%2Csmart&quality=75 Then Bush looked into his eyes: https://i.imgflip.com/7br05a.jpg Clinton tried the reset button: https://america.cgtn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/S81405T13565989911661-800x485.jpg Then we all know Trump tried to be friends. And we've got Russia hawks too, but we've genuinely tried throughout multiple administrations. Ultimately it failed. So the question is why try? Well Daniel Fried, former assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian affairs, answers it here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=443WY8TTd-Q"So it was actually a complicated policy, a mixed one. And it was wrong. But, you know, if Bush hadn’t done it, and if Clinton hadn’t done it, you would ask me the legitimate question, “Well, why didn’t you even try?,” to which I would have no answer. So I'm glad we tried. The failure is principally a failure of Russia to take advantage of the opportunities Clinton and Bush opened up to it." -Fried Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Originally Posted By RockNwood: Why does the west keep treating Russia as if it is a legitimate nation? Well we can go back to the Clinton/Yeltsin years: https://assets.editorial.aetnd.com/uploads/2018/04/when-a-russian-president-ended-up-drunk-and-disrobed-outside-the-white-houses-featured-photo.jpg?width=1920&height=960&crop=1920%3A960%2Csmart&quality=75 Then Bush looked into his eyes: https://i.imgflip.com/7br05a.jpg Clinton tried the reset button: https://america.cgtn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/S81405T13565989911661-800x485.jpg Then we all know Trump tried to be friends. And we've got Russia hawks too, but we've genuinely tried throughout multiple administrations. Ultimately it failed. So the question is why try? Well Daniel Fried, former assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian affairs, answers it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=443WY8TTd-Q"So it was actually a complicated policy, a mixed one. And it was wrong. But, you know, if Bush hadn’t done it, and if Clinton hadn’t done it, you would ask me the legitimate question, “Well, why didn’t you even try?,” to which I would have no answer. So I'm glad we tried. The failure is principally a failure of Russia to take advantage of the opportunities Clinton and Bush opened up to it." -Fried Dozens if not hundreds of books will be written about this, but I think there are already some uncomfortable answers. Unfortunately they are answers which few who were in power will want discussed. 1) Their corruption dovetailed with ours and they bought (or compromised) influence for relative chump change. 2) The west never held them to any of their legal agreements when we had the ability. You know all those tanks and arty pieces being thrown at Ukraine? They were all supposed to be scrapped. The fact they had a turnkey Soviet army sitting in storage had to be a factor in their willingness to make the decisions they made. And this doesn’t even begin to talk about their legal obligations to Ukraine. We, the west, took the easy way out on agreements we already had in hand and this has nothing to do with whether we should or shouldn’t have tried engagement. 3) People who raised the alarm on facts were ignored or ridiculed. There are more. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:47:54 AM EDT
[#17]
I see the russian shills are trying hard to pile up enough coc violations to have the discussion closed.
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:51:25 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PolarBear416: Aside from all the CoC violations in your post, is it your view that we cannot focus on domestic issues and foreign issues at the same time? Why should we lie down and miss the opportunity to take out an enemy? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PolarBear416: Originally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By Jaehaerys: Considering that I was born post-1991, your assessment that I'm a crusty old Cold Warrior is, once again, totally detached from reality. I'm starting to notice a pattern here... In any event, I'm done engaging with you and derailing the thread. Good luck in all future endeavors. Awesome, the opinion of a propaganda-gobbling millenial. Meanwhile, inflation is crazy high, boys are getting their dicks cut off by their parents, political imprisonment is happening on a regular basis, and anti-white racism is pretty much de jure, but you hard chargers got a warboner for Urozhaine? Not sure some of you have your priorities straight... Aside from all the CoC violations in your post, is it your view that we cannot focus on domestic issues and foreign issues at the same time? Why should we lie down and miss the opportunity to take out an enemy? Because is reality, he does not give a **** about said domestic issues. They usually bring those issues up just to add a fuck Ukraine. It's all nonsense. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:52:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood]
[#19]
Speaking of Defeatism, Surrender Monkeys, and Russian Talking Points…he who knows not when to keep silent but rather shoots both feet after sticking them in mouth!
He really should have a dog collar and assless chaps—as should all those who parrot Russian narratives. You know Putin is worried and anxious when a wave of posters start blathering QUIT, NEGOTIATE, HELP THE SPOTTED DODGER NOT UKRAINE! You realize how many puppies can be saved for the cost of one cluster munition?! |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 3:04:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood]
[#20]
The shit storm in social media is ROLLING!
 Fuck Putin and all his war criminals and apologists.  Rawhide Opening and Closing Credits and Theme Song |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2023 3:05:10 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PolarBear416: Aside from all the CoC violations in your post, is it your view that we cannot focus on domestic issues and foreign issues at the same time? Why should we lie down and miss the opportunity to take out an enemy? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PolarBear416: Originally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By Jaehaerys: Considering that I was born post-1991, your assessment that I'm a crusty old Cold Warrior is, once again, totally detached from reality. I'm starting to notice a pattern here... In any event, I'm done engaging with you and derailing the thread. Good luck in all future endeavors. Awesome, the opinion of a propaganda-gobbling millenial. Meanwhile, inflation is crazy high, boys are getting their dicks cut off by their parents, political imprisonment is happening on a regular basis, and anti-white racism is pretty much de jure, but you hard chargers got a warboner for Urozhaine? Not sure some of you have your priorities straight... Aside from all the CoC violations in your post, is it your view that we cannot focus on domestic issues and foreign issues at the same time? Why should we lie down and miss the opportunity to take out an enemy? Oh no COC violations how will I sleep tonight? Plainly, we cannot focus on various issues at the same time. Present reality is proof of that. And if you see you see the enemy of liberty as anything other than DC, then you've drunk their Kool Aid. Enjoy. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/26/2023 3:09:50 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: Oh no COC violations how will I sleep tonight? Plainly, we cannot focus on various issues at the same time. Present reality is proof of that. And if you see you see the enemy of liberty as anything other than DC, then you've drunk their Kool Aid. Enjoy. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By PolarBear416: Originally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By Jaehaerys: Considering that I was born post-1991, your assessment that I'm a crusty old Cold Warrior is, once again, totally detached from reality. I'm starting to notice a pattern here... In any event, I'm done engaging with you and derailing the thread. Good luck in all future endeavors. Awesome, the opinion of a propaganda-gobbling millenial. Meanwhile, inflation is crazy high, boys are getting their dicks cut off by their parents, political imprisonment is happening on a regular basis, and anti-white racism is pretty much de jure, but you hard chargers got a warboner for Urozhaine? Not sure some of you have your priorities straight... Aside from all the CoC violations in your post, is it your view that we cannot focus on domestic issues and foreign issues at the same time? Why should we lie down and miss the opportunity to take out an enemy? Oh no COC violations how will I sleep tonight? Plainly, we cannot focus on various issues at the same time. Present reality is proof of that. And if you see you see the enemy of liberty as anything other than DC, then you've drunk their Kool Aid. Enjoy. So according to you the enemy isn't Russia, it's the United States. Got it. I understand you now. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 3:18:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AROKIE]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: Awesome, the opinion of a propaganda-gobbling millenial. Meanwhile, inflation is crazy high, boys are getting their dicks cut off by their parents, political imprisonment is happening on a regular basis, and anti-white racism is pretty much de jure, but you hard chargers got a warboner for Urozhaine? Not sure some of you have your priorities straight... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By Jaehaerys: Considering that I was born post-1991, your assessment that I'm a crusty old Cold Warrior is, once again, totally detached from reality. I'm starting to notice a pattern here... In any event, I'm done engaging with you and derailing the thread. Good luck in all future endeavors. Awesome, the opinion of a propaganda-gobbling millenial. Meanwhile, inflation is crazy high, boys are getting their dicks cut off by their parents, political imprisonment is happening on a regular basis, and anti-white racism is pretty much de jure, but you hard chargers got a warboner for Urozhaine? Not sure some of you have your priorities straight... not for you to decide, is there not enough "fuck ukraine" threads in GD to go enjoy with like minded folks? what makes you want to be in a thread that does not align with your opinion? trolling? or what? Just because some of us have differing opinions on russia and stopping russian agression does not make us democrats or as you say "do not have our priorities" right. we have the right to have a differing opinion on russia. we dont all have to think alike Everyone in this thread already knows and understands the problems here in our country, thats not an issue here. you are taking your frustrations out on the wrong people here. supporting Ukraine is not hurting anything here, the issues here can be solved with the right person in office, biden is a bumbling fool and we all here agree on that. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 3:25:01 AM EDT
[#24]
It tears my soul that Mom Jeans and Little Fidel have bigger foreign policy balls than many of the supposed Republican candidates and shit posters. Ronnie we need your courage and vision to restore this wet noodle party.
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Posted: 8/26/2023 3:29:37 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Frederick Kagan of the ISW would agree. Now, Kagan is an interesting character. He's got a PhD in Russian and Soviet military history from Yale and he taught at West Point. His wife Kimberly is also a military history professor and the two together advised Petraeus on the surge. His dad was a military history professor at Cornell and came from Lithuania. And his brother is a diplomat who is married to Victoria Nuland. So he's well connected, and he's a Russia hawk. He says that they have continued to be antagonistic despite multiple administrations trying a reset. He says now, after the war and after all this has happened things will not go back to normal where everybody just forgives and forgets, everybody goes back to normal trade and so on. There's too much bad blood. He says that Putinism (his ideology) will survive Putin and they will never give up on the idea of taking Ukraine or the West as their enemy. So we need a strategy for cutting Russia out of the world economy and the international community. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akjuYLUvrMEThomas Graham, director of Russian policy during the Bush years is much more dovish. He now teaches Russia and Eurasian Affair at Yale. It's funny how all these Yale folk get into government. He says we need to support Ukraine but be careful not to push Russia too far away from Europe and the West, because Russia is still a large country spanning 14 time zones with tons of natural resources and a nuclear arsenal and you want to eventually bridge relations. They're not going to break up again because the country is 80% ethnically Russian now (except for the North Caucasus which they may lose) and isolating them too much would not be good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkli-wfOv2MSo you can imagine President Biden gets to sit at a table and listen to the hawks argue with the doves. And Biden has his own history with Russia being on the Senate Foreign Relations counsel for many years, and he was Obama's point guy on Russia since Putin didn't seem to want to work with a black President or the Secretary of State Bill Clinton's wife (her husband never liked him.) This was from when Biden was a spry looking youngster in 2011: https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1240w,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2021_15/3464339/210413-biden-putin-mb-1709.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Originally Posted By RockNwood: I’m pretty sure the world doesn’t need Russia. Let’s find out! Frederick Kagan of the ISW would agree. Now, Kagan is an interesting character. He's got a PhD in Russian and Soviet military history from Yale and he taught at West Point. His wife Kimberly is also a military history professor and the two together advised Petraeus on the surge. His dad was a military history professor at Cornell and came from Lithuania. And his brother is a diplomat who is married to Victoria Nuland. So he's well connected, and he's a Russia hawk. He says that they have continued to be antagonistic despite multiple administrations trying a reset. He says now, after the war and after all this has happened things will not go back to normal where everybody just forgives and forgets, everybody goes back to normal trade and so on. There's too much bad blood. He says that Putinism (his ideology) will survive Putin and they will never give up on the idea of taking Ukraine or the West as their enemy. So we need a strategy for cutting Russia out of the world economy and the international community. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akjuYLUvrMEThomas Graham, director of Russian policy during the Bush years is much more dovish. He now teaches Russia and Eurasian Affair at Yale. It's funny how all these Yale folk get into government. He says we need to support Ukraine but be careful not to push Russia too far away from Europe and the West, because Russia is still a large country spanning 14 time zones with tons of natural resources and a nuclear arsenal and you want to eventually bridge relations. They're not going to break up again because the country is 80% ethnically Russian now (except for the North Caucasus which they may lose) and isolating them too much would not be good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkli-wfOv2MSo you can imagine President Biden gets to sit at a table and listen to the hawks argue with the doves. And Biden has his own history with Russia being on the Senate Foreign Relations counsel for many years, and he was Obama's point guy on Russia since Putin didn't seem to want to work with a black President or the Secretary of State Bill Clinton's wife (her husband never liked him.) This was from when Biden was a spry looking youngster in 2011: https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1240w,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2021_15/3464339/210413-biden-putin-mb-1709.jpg I actually somewhat agree. It’s really sad. Russia fucked up the easiest fucking game on the planet and fucked their own population. In the long run they’re going to have it worse, probably much worse, than the Ukrainians. Because Russia shat in the gravy train and everyone around them is going to get even. No one is going to invade Russia, but after the next war Russia will cease to exist in its current form. They’ve burned too many bridges running the “we’re going to out-barbarian the mongol horde” game. And I agree that Putin’s brand of Russian Imperial Fascism isn’t going away. His immediate successor will probably be inward-focused, but that won’t last, at which point we’re looking at a repeat of 1923-1938 with a weaker but probably less rational and more dangerous Russia. You have a weakened state with strong internal tensions in a world that wants the stuff they have. Every educated Russian should curse Putin’s name. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 3:31:59 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryPosted a couple of months ago. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 3:33:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F4Z0853XsAAAl2f?format=jpg&name=900x900 He was featured in multiple interviews over the past year and explained how the air war was being conducted. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/inside-ukraines-desperate-fight-against-drones-with-mig-29-pilot-juice https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/2022/12/12/IMG_1644-scaled.jpg?auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=1920 I will have a drink for Juice and pour out one for him.  The Airman's Hymn |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 3:40:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood]
[#28]
More info on how DEFEATISM, ISOLATIONISM AND FUCK UKRAINE aligns well with Biden. As do many R candidates approve of Biden withholding funding. Is it fair to call such fuck supporters Milley bootlickers? Or just Milley lickers?
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Posted: 8/26/2023 3:55:07 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: More info on how DEFEATISM, ISOLATIONISM AND FUCK UKRAINE aligns well with Biden. As do many R candidates approve of Biden withholding funding. Is it fair to call such fuck supporters Milley bootlickers? Or just Milley lickers?
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Posted: 8/26/2023 3:57:05 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zam18th: From that account. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F4cGc7GX0AAeMWE?format=jpg&name=small Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zam18th: Originally Posted By RockNwood: More info on how DEFEATISM, ISOLATIONISM AND FUCK UKRAINE aligns well with Biden. As do many R candidates approve of Biden withholding funding. Is it fair to call such fuck supporters Milley bootlickers? Or just Milley lickers?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F4cGc7GX0AAeMWE?format=jpg&name=small My man! 👍 |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 4:04:10 AM EDT
[#31]
I have seen these speculations pops up a couple of times in the past day but with no real evidence to back them up. But still, if true....
https://t.me/Crimeanwind/40642 According to so far unconfirmed information, PMC "Wagner" headed by Viktor Bout Viktor Bout, a world-famous arms dealer who was serving a 25-year sentence in the United States, was exchanged at the end of 2022 for American basketball player Britney Griner, who was convicted in Russia for drug smuggling. That is: one of the largest illegal arms dealers in world history, based on whose biography the film “The Armed Baron” was shot with Nicolas Cage , may have headed the Wagner PMC. Of course, the information requires confirmation, and if it is nevertheless confirmed, this will mean that the Wagner PMC is entering a fundamentally new level, which, in essence, is much more dangerous than the one it was at during the time of Prigozhin and Utkin. In addition, this will mean 100% work for the FSB. So the version that Lubyanka is behind the liquidation of Prigozhin and Utkin , if the information about Bout is confirmed, will have a reinforced concrete basis. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 4:06:43 AM EDT
[#32]
If Viktor Bout gets a role like that the Biden Administration will be very vulnerable to criticism.
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Posted: 8/26/2023 4:14:31 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: The shit storm in social media is ROLLING!
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/494438/IMG_3211-2932353.jpg Fuck Putin and all his war criminals and apologists. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_rHrLHIeyIDotcom is a creepy mofo. I am looking forward to the day I read that he fell out of a window and left a greasy spot on the ground. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 4:33:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#34]
Interesting failed launch (or flight)
Tweet says S-200. https://twitter.com/b_misteryo/status/1695201895139143857 |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 4:39:19 AM EDT
[#35]
   
  
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Posted: 8/26/2023 4:43:50 AM EDT
[#36]
Not our war?
Randy Mott disassembles the Russian narrative adopted by a sizable MINORITY of Americans and candidates. Thread unrolled. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 4:44:46 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By yekimak: I have seen these speculations pops up a couple of times in the past day but with no real evidence to back them up. But still, if true.... https://t.me/Crimeanwind/40642 According to so far unconfirmed information, PMC "Wagner" headed by Viktor Bout Viktor Bout, a world-famous arms dealer who was serving a 25-year sentence in the United States, was exchanged at the end of 2022 for American basketball player Britney Griner, who was convicted in Russia for drug smuggling. That is: one of the largest illegal arms dealers in world history, based on whose biography the film “The Armed Baron” was shot with Nicolas Cage , may have headed the Wagner PMC. Of course, the information requires confirmation, and if it is nevertheless confirmed, this will mean that the Wagner PMC is entering a fundamentally new level, which, in essence, is much more dangerous than the one it was at during the time of Prigozhin and Utkin. In addition, this will mean 100% work for the FSB. So the version that Lubyanka is behind the liquidation of Prigozhin and Utkin , if the information about Bout is confirmed, will have a reinforced concrete basis. 
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Posted: 8/26/2023 4:50:28 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Some time ago when somebody was proposing negotiations, I made up my own 10-point list and put it in this thread. No idea where, 3000-something pages ago? Some genius posted a thread in GD saying "it's time to negotiate" so I made a new list. Some of you don't get out of the boat, so here's my proposal for a starting point for a negotiated peace settlement:
If full Russian denuclearization is not achieved, Ukraine immediately becomes a NATO country or becomes a nuclear-armed power on its own. Neutrality for Ukraine (as they choose to define it) is contingent on Russia giving up nuclear weapons forever. This sounds reasonable, does it not? “The FSB is to be The crimes of the Tsarist, Soviet, and now Russian secret police are beyond horrific. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 4:53:39 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F4XrkUNWgAEl4CY?format=png&name=900x900 The Rusich group refused to fight in Ukraine after the arrest of its co-founder The Russian neo-Nazi group Rusich has announced that it is ceasing to carry out combat missions in Ukraine. According to the group’s telegram channel, the reason for this decision was the detention of one of the founders and leaders of Rusich, Yan Petrovsky, also known under the pseudonym Slavyan. “In the meantime, the situation with Slavyan is not resolved in the direction we need (extradition of the Russian Federation) - Rusich stops performing any combat missions. There will be time to relax and solve the accumulated cases. If a country cannot protect its citizens, then why should citizens protect the country?” - the group's telegram channel says. The detention of Jan Petrovsky took place in Finland, it became known only today. The Ukrainian authorities suspect him of participating in war crimes committed between June 2014 and August 2015 in the Luhansk and Donetsk regions. Petrovsky himself denies any involvement in these events. https://t.me/moscowtimes_ru/15288 These terms are acceptable. 
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Posted: 8/26/2023 4:55:46 AM EDT
[#40]
Recent anecdotal evidence confirms! 😁 |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 5:02:34 AM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 8/26/2023 5:05:02 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Interesting failed launch (or flight) Tweet says S-200. https://twitter.com/b_misteryo/status/1695201895139143857  No way this is a S-200 
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Posted: 8/26/2023 5:06:32 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Yeah. I think what's even more eye opening is Putin's essay on Ukraine written in 2021 titled ”On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians“. It's required reading for Russian officers. In his essay he says Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia have been one country for more than 5,000 years since Kievan-Rus times and they are only separate now because the founders of the USSR made the "mistake" of chopping them up into separate states under the union in 1922 which became sovereign after the union was disbanded in 1991. He says when that happened Russia was "robbed." And he also says that Ukrainians are really Russians that speak 2 languages, and that them starting to deny their roots and Russian language and Russian orthodox church and become "ethnically pure" Ukrainians who want to join the EU is "comparable to the use of weapons of mass destruction" on Russia because it will wipe out millions of Russians from the Earth. When he wrote it a lot of people said that's nothing new, he's been saying this for awhile: https://verfassungsblog.de/smothered-by-russias-brotherly-embrace/ https://jordanrussiacenter.org/news/in-putins-vision-of-ukraines-past-a-warning-about-russias-future/ But I don't think the average person knows that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Originally Posted By Capta: I believe we’re all well-acquainted with that piece of Russian propaganda for genocide. Yeah. I think what's even more eye opening is Putin's essay on Ukraine written in 2021 titled ”On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians“. It's required reading for Russian officers. In his essay he says Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia have been one country for more than 5,000 years since Kievan-Rus times and they are only separate now because the founders of the USSR made the "mistake" of chopping them up into separate states under the union in 1922 which became sovereign after the union was disbanded in 1991. He says when that happened Russia was "robbed." And he also says that Ukrainians are really Russians that speak 2 languages, and that them starting to deny their roots and Russian language and Russian orthodox church and become "ethnically pure" Ukrainians who want to join the EU is "comparable to the use of weapons of mass destruction" on Russia because it will wipe out millions of Russians from the Earth. When he wrote it a lot of people said that's nothing new, he's been saying this for awhile: https://verfassungsblog.de/smothered-by-russias-brotherly-embrace/ https://jordanrussiacenter.org/news/in-putins-vision-of-ukraines-past-a-warning-about-russias-future/ But I don't think the average person knows that. The average may not but (and this isn’t collective bragging) the thread does. There’s a lot of sharp people with a lot of different sources here. This is a video I found eye-opening which goes a long way to explaining Putin’s decisions, and why the war is directed as much or more at the west as at Ukraine.  The Ideology of Putin's Russia |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 5:08:40 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: The reality of the situation is that the US is funneling billions of dollars of unaudited dollars into a country that paid Hunter millions of unaudited dollars. America has much more pressing concerns. The war in Ukraine could be over this afternoon if they agreed to give up some bits that no Ukranian gives a fuck about. But I guess Nuland's opinion should drive the fate of the region? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By Jaehaerys: Anyone boiling down the pro-Ukrainian position to supporting 'what is best for Zelensky' is being inherently dishonest and deceitful, which I suppose shouldn't be surprising at this point. Overall, the focus on Zelensky from the right is absurdly moronic, and it (perhaps intentionally) misses the big picture of what is going on here. This conflict boils down to a people resisting blatantly genocidal imperialism from a state that denies they have a right to exist, steals and indoctrinates hundreds of thousands of their children, uses their men from occupied territory as cannon fodder, rapes their women as a matter of policy, uses them as forced labor, runs numerous torture chambers in occupied territory, etc. Zelensky is a temporary executive of the will of the people (in before the inevitable "Zelensky is a dictator who banned all future elections!!!!1!!1!!!1"). Focusing in on him obfuscates the reality of the situation. The reality of the situation is that the US is funneling billions of dollars of unaudited dollars into a country that paid Hunter millions of unaudited dollars. America has much more pressing concerns. The war in Ukraine could be over this afternoon if they agreed to give up some bits that no Ukranian gives a fuck about. But I guess Nuland's opinion should drive the fate of the region? Source for your statement please. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 5:21:56 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: Anyone basing their opinion of someone's qualification for being POTUS on 'what is best for Zelensky' is fucked in the head. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By Jozsi: Originally Posted By RockNwood: Originally Posted By kpacman: Originally Posted By RockNwood: I don’t follow much of the R churn yet but saw this video exchange and was impressed that the crowd seemed to be cheering strongly for Haley’s points about Putin and Ukraine aid. Feel free to correct my impression if you follow this more than I.
I thought Nikki did a great job exposing Vivek's lack of international knowledge. Nikki was UN ambassador, so she just ran circles around Vivek, especially regarding the Ukraine issue. Vivek's proposal is to freeze the lines as they are. Allow Russia to keep the territory they have seized in return for a pledge to cease all hostilities. This also comes with a promise to Russia that Ukraine WON'T be allowed to join NATO. WTF? So Vivek’s policy would be Give Russia everything it wants and hope for the best? He is either an idiot or compromised to Russia. Glad he got soundly ridiculed. NO! Vivek is a businessman just like Trump, it's all about wheeling and dealing and that is what he thinks on how Russia can be treated. I disagree. He’s either …completely clueless on the situation 18 months in. …pandering to the what he thinks is the TRUMP demographic of “if Biden supports it, it must be bad!” …a weak man who has allowed others to determine his moral compass. None of these make a case for him to be president. Anyone basing their opinion of someone's qualification for being POTUS on 'what is best for Zelensky' is fucked in the head. Did you see Zelensky’s name mentioned? No? Did you see Ukraine mentioned? No? We are aiding Ukraine because it serves our national interests and those of our allies in Europe. NOT because it makes us feel warm and fuzzy or we like those neat Ukrainian embroidered shirts. It is in our interests to see Russia ground to powder. The moral component simply means I take tremendous personal satisfaction in seeing Russia ground to powder. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 5:24:29 AM EDT
[#46]
 Leopard tanks in storage Switzerland. 
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Posted: 8/26/2023 5:28:52 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryRight, I was going off of the size, but it’s the wrong shape, too. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 5:30:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#48]
13th
As for the 205th brigade and these islands, on the Dnieper. I'm not being smart, I'm just saying objective things. Why for every island where it is simply impossible to dig normally, due to the fact that there is a swampy area, why should guys die for them? Shelters had to be organized there in advance, I already spoke about this, to build capital buildings, and not when, excuse everything. The fact that we would leave Kherson was talked about as early as May 2022, in July, after the first use of "Khimarsov" by crests, on the territory of the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power station, everything became clear to everyone. Let's leave Kherson, that's what happened. Right now, calmly, without any swearing, well, elementary logistics are not organized there. The guys on these islands are thrown food, water and BC with great risks, both material and associated with a direct risk to life. I understand everything, this is a war, the terrain makes its own adjustments, but for me, these islands just need to be wiped off the face of the earth, by FABs and Iskanders. Create hellish conditions for Ukrainians there. Why do they manage to land their saboteurs on our shore, capture our fighters, officers, shoot, hit, and we, excuse me, point artillery through the Telegram messenger? Why is there no normal connection? These are the right questions. And there is no need to say that the right bank is higher and that their positions are more advantageous. We went to the left bank exactly according to the wording "occupying more advantageous lines" and "regrouping". I understand that you graduated from academies and higher command schools, but the situation "on the ground" often differs from what is reported to the headquarters. And for some "faults" and attempts to call on commanders for objectivity, for some reason we are sent to "Storm-Z", and driven to storm the forest clearings. It’s impossible, the soldiers need to be heard, otherwise the fighters are “on treason” all the time, and they don’t know where they will “fly in”, from enemies, or tomorrow ours will come for you, but from the VP, and take you away “to the basement” according to fictitious reasons. You can not do it this way. I am already covered with hopelessness, learn to hear, I beg you, and come to a compromise, as well as organize accelerated interaction. No one refuses to work, everyone wants Victory, but the percentage of my comrades, who are now forever listed in the lists of units, is only growing, and my soul hurts for all of them. Please start listening to the soldiers, organize normal interaction, not only within, but also between units, logistics, communications, direct access to artillery, UAV reconnaissance and I assure you, you will see how the tasks will be performed better, and the number of losses will decrease. This is a war, there are no losses, but this is too high a price, we need to work on mistakes. It’s unpleasant for me to proceed, sorry for the “shit”, violate subordination, and bring conflicts to the public, this is wrong, I really understand this, you need to be able to negotiate everything inside, then there will be no such excesses. Some bosses and commanders should stop living by the law: "I'm the boss - you're shit." Soldiers are people too, they have the same families, and they want to return home alive, and preferably not crippled. https://t.me/Separ13_13/18171 A specific division is far away, not the only one where there are certain problems. The fighters of the 205th truly heroically show themselves from the very beginning of the SVO, and I would note many officers from this brigade extremely positively. But there are problems that people in higher positions who have this competence can solve. And for this you need to learn to listen. https://t.me/Separ13_13/18172 |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 5:38:09 AM EDT
[#49]
@TheDeadDistrict The Leopard 1A5DK tanks of ZSU. With love from 🇳🇱/🇩🇰/🇩🇪.
 Leopard 1 tanks fighting against Russians in Ukraine. 
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Posted: 8/26/2023 5:38:34 AM EDT
[#50]
  
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