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Posted: 10/22/2022 4:19:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: I want to see the video. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By elcope:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfsclxhWIAEnyd5?format=jpg&name=large I know I've been waiting for some video to come out |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 4:22:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: If anything, you would think nations would have military supply warehousing and stockpiling down to a cold science. Peace is not the norm on planet Earth. Never has been. Europe is like being a guy that only has the two mags that came with the gun and a single box of ammo. WTF were they thinking? Well, we do.  For the Euro's, that is an expensive luxury post 1991, plus it's cheaper to have the U.S. do the heavy lift. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 4:24:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093:
Guess still waiting on Turkey |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 4:27:43 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093:
We got some Leppard 2a7s coming our way into Hungary instead of the A5s and now we get A7s Now to finish the secret negotiations on the fucken shitty orc nuke plants and then Hungary gets into the loop. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 4:28:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 7empest: All I want to see is a Vulcan smoke a Hind. ETA: Or a Frogfoot that would also be acceptable Vulcan  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 4:30:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#6]
Perfectly timed drone drop.
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Posted: 10/22/2022 4:31:59 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: I agree with all or nearly all of that. Where I will disagree, or maybe not disagree but expand, is that I have argued for the whole thread that the west is FAR more ruthless than given credit for, particularly in this forum where it’s often convenient for social reasons to believe that the west is spineless. The west’s war aim is to grind Russia to powder and the question is how to accomplish that. IMO you don’t accomplish that by making their situation untenable too soon. GMLRS and ultimately ATACMS introduced too early and in overwhelming force would’ve ejected Russia from Ukraine but with FAR less damage to the Russian war machine, economy, and society. We’re keeping the game close while masking ruthlessness as spinelessness. Keep them digging deeper into their reserves of materiel. Pressure their economy. Destroy their trade relationships. Kill their young men. I suspect that the West will be perfectly happy to continue this course of action until something inside Russia breaks - most likely an Army mutiny. After that, color revolutions along Russia’s southern flank. People will read this and think that I’m repeating the Russian talking point of “fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian.” But nothing is further from the truth. I believe the higher echelons of Ukraine’s military and civilian leadership are aware of and onboard with this as the best option for their long-term security as a nation. Russia will NEVER be a trustworthy neighbor for Ukraine, and from Ukraine’s perspective the best Russia is a smashed Russia. Smashed so thoroughly that it will disintegrate under internal pressures. For this outcome, Ukraine is willing and able to suffer the casualties they’re suffering. This is fucking hardball. But all that said, there is a way forward for Russia as a diminished state. IMO, the West, in particular Europe, believes that Russia can go forward like Japan and Germany went forward after WW2. They have to be smashed first (and there may well be a follow-on war to this one) but afterward will learn the error of their ways and can return to polite European society. So ultimately it isn't about wiping the Russians out, it’s about bringing them out of the 19th century the hard way. If we can avoid nukes I think that is a very reasonable outcome. Very true. The sooner said color revolutions happen, the better. The USSR was just kinda dormant for 30 years. China will happily take the eastern part of the pie when the picking is right. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 4:42:50 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Good eye, that's him. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Originally Posted By KELBEAST: Dude holding the flag in that last picture looks like the guy who was reported killed a few posts up Good eye, that's him. I was afraid of that. Would Russia seek to take retaliatory action against any friends/family of Georgian fighters who might somehow still live in Russia? Or do they have enough reach to threaten anyone living in Georgia itself? It seems like a lot of Ukrainian fighters are "unmasking" themselves for publicity photos lately- though I bet that'll stop with the cold temperatures coming in over there. I wonder if it's wise to make yourself easily identifiable; Russia has demonstrated that there is no action so low that it won't consider it. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 10/22/2022 4:46:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ligore]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Drakich: I’m sort of mystified by this point of view. We spend about as much as the rest of the world combined does on the military, we have literally the most modern and best equipped and trained military in the world, bases and forward deployed units in Europe and Asia, and the largest and 2nd largest air forces in the world. Calling us unprepared is silly. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Drakich: Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: We haven’t been in this weak a position since 1941. Fortunately people seem to be seeing the truth and even the left sees a need to correct this problem. I’m sort of mystified by this point of view. We spend about as much as the rest of the world combined does on the military, we have literally the most modern and best equipped and trained military in the world, bases and forward deployed units in Europe and Asia, and the largest and 2nd largest air forces in the world. Calling us unprepared is silly. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 4:48:53 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: I know this has been seen before, but this is tactically new. If you've seen it, and you probably have, disregard. But it deserves a look-see. We have squad on squad fighting, at hand grenade range, with basically a squad-level UAV dropping ordnance in support of the close fight. I'm sure its technically a platoon-or company asset, probably 500-1000 meters back behind this fight is the operator, but this is the lowest level of synchronization I've seen. Its not clear to me what the hell the guy is doing at 1:07, but the fact he hears the UAV and is waving and giving it a thumbs up means there is some sort of comms and some sort of synchronization going on. So. Squad level UAV dropping ordnance and delivering fire support in support of CQB. We knew it was heading this way, and figured it was happening somewhere, but hadn't yet seen it. At the squad level its not like you have ADA to do anything about this. This is significant; a new and dangerous development.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkJwSNF7gKo1. Headquarter Platoon- Supply, Mess section, comms, motor pool 2. Weapons Platoon - Mortars 3. Rifle Platoon 4. Rifle Platoon 5. Rifle Platoon I could see a UAV section being added to the weapons platoon. Just like the mortars they would be back from the rifle platoons but close enough to give them direct support |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 4:49:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMCTanker: Excellent content: Deterrence to war is built on our credibility and perception of our adversaries that we posses the will to fight and win, or support those that do. There’s a certain audience here in GD that are incapable of comprehending such a basic concept, unfortunately. In before “I’m tired of being the world’s police”  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMCTanker: Originally Posted By CharlieR: Discussions about how effective the Russians are miss the bigger picture, and the elephant in the room. Power equals force times will. You can have all the money on weapons you like, but without will, build more, buy more, you don't have power anyone respects. Jimmy Carter didn't have that much smaller a military then Reagan, but power was worlds apart. After WWII the US defined Europe as its area of interest. George Kennan, and his white paper NSC68, argued correctly that your credibility and will is called into question if you stand aside for Communism. If you don't show will worldwide, countries that are in your area of interest will question your will to support them. It all matters, you cant put a boundary on will and credibility. That's why you fight Communists in Korea, to show resolve to NATO that you'll fight for them. The interest or lack of interest of country X is irrelevant. You amass as much power as you can, anyway you can, to achieve the effects you want when Iran wants a bomb or China wants Taiwan. They respect capital P POWER. Get some. Get more. The only thing that matters is how much you can accumulate as cheaply as you can. You pull out of places when they suck power out of you. Its an investment. A proxy war is a great way for a democracy like the US to amass power because we have lots of free stuff, and the proxy has lots of motivation, and it pays to be a winner. The US was rightly skittish in the early weeks as we have dissipated power spending resources supporting losers....Iraq, Afghanistan, looking at you. And this administration was rightly perceived as weak as hell after the Kabul farce. So they needed this one. Supporting the UA is an outstandingly awesome idea as it expands US power without risking us where we are weak...the lack of willpower of the American people who want to go to the mall and not risk a drop of their blood for anything. That big ass chicken will come home to roost with a giant sized amount of vengeance when the US loses power. That's not a world you want to live in. The goal is to win as much as you can, as cheaply as you can, to expand the perception of your will and force to show power and get people to knuckle under to what you want, without a fight, out of fear of your power, setting the conditions for your economy. Pick your fights. Desert Storm was pretty good. Ukraine is good. Vietnam and Afghanistan, bad. Ukraine is great. We should support the hell out of Ukraine and monkey stomp the Russians. Because its good for us. It is, arguably, a lot like poker. When you want something, really bad, like bad actors to get in line, you bluff with force and they don't question your will; they submit without a fight. But if you want the world to respect your level of will, you have to win some hands and you need a track record of success. It doesn't really matter what hand, the effect is in your opponents mind, between his damn ears. Any hand will do, any fight will do. Just win, baby. Fold based on "if it will work" not "where is it" Our foreign policy fiascos the last fifty years has been staying too long with weak hands, not where or where not we were. My argument is we should be pushing ATCAMS and the kitchen sink and anything else, as monkey stomping the Rus with the Ukrainian army sets us up for success with respect to some bigger problems we have on the horizon, especially seeing our economy is sucking due to basic selfishness and stupidity. We have less margin for error and we NEED the Rus monkeystomped. Because the world is watching, especially China and Iran and Taiwan and Israel, and we can. Which is mostly all the matters. What we can, and cant, not what want or don't not want to do. Here, we can. So go do. And frogboiling isn't it, either. Burn that frog with a blowtorch and mail toasted frog parts to Xi. Let him smell some smoke. When that SOB longingly looks across the Strait of Formosa and gets silly ideas, and when the Supreme Leader thinks about building a nuke and firing it at Tel Aviv, they already know what our DoD budget looks like. They need to remember what our will looks like, which quite frankly has been called into question, and what blowtorched frog smells like. That saves us money and lives and resources later. Looking at silly maps and drawing lines and putting Ukraine on the wrong side of it is foolish. That's called credibility, and smarter men then us figured this out 75 years ago. Excellent content: Deterrence to war is built on our credibility and perception of our adversaries that we posses the will to fight and win, or support those that do. There’s a certain audience here in GD that are incapable of comprehending such a basic concept, unfortunately. In before “I’m tired of being the world’s police” In all honesty, I'm one of those "tired of being the worlds police" people. The thing is, most of us, not all of us, but most of us, are in all actuality, simply tired of being and ungrateful worlds policeman. You can only be told, Yankee go home, be called a murder and baby killer and your wife called a whore, so many times before you begin to think fuck this, why are we here if they feel this way about us. You can only have so many balloons filled with pain, urine and or feces thrown on you before you quit caring if their cities are leveled and their bodies burn in the fires of their own making. When country after country after country thumbs their collective noses at you, laugh at you, insult and deride you, simply for protecting them, yeah, it's tiring and weighs heavily on a person. All of that being said, no matter how tired we are, no matter how tired of their childish bullshit we become, no one can do this but us, we must not shirk our duty, we must stand against the forces of evil, even if we stand alone. For if not us, then who? For if not now, then when? We must not fail to delivery our tattered and stained principles of liberty and freedom to victory, or this world will truly become a dark place indeed. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 4:53:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: That was fantastic.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: Originally Posted By CharlieR: Discussions about how effective the Russians are miss the bigger picture, and the elephant in the room. Power equals force times will. You can have all the money on weapons you like, but without will, build more, buy more, you don't have power anyone respects. Jimmy Carter didn't have that much smaller a military then Reagan, but power was worlds apart. After WWII the US defined Europe as its area of interest. George Kennan, and his white paper NSC68, argued correctly that your credibility and will is called into question if you stand aside for Communism. If you don't show will worldwide, countries that are in your area of interest will question your will to support them. It all matters, you cant put a boundary on will and credibility. That's why you fight Communists in Korea, to show resolve to NATO that you'll fight for them. The interest or lack of interest of country X is irrelevant. You amass as much power as you can, anyway you can, to achieve the effects you want when Iran wants a bomb or China wants Taiwan. They respect capital P POWER. Get some. Get more. The only thing that matters is how much you can accumulate as cheaply as you can. You pull out of places when they suck power out of you. Its an investment. A proxy war is a great way for a democracy like the US to amass power because we have lots of free stuff, and the proxy has lots of motivation, and it pays to be a winner. The US was rightly skittish in the early weeks as we have dissipated power spending resources supporting losers....Iraq, Afghanistan, looking at you. And this administration was rightly perceived as weak as hell after the Kabul farce. So they needed this one. Supporting the UA is an outstandingly awesome idea as it expands US power without risking us where we are weak...the lack of willpower of the American people who want to go to the mall and not risk a drop of their blood for anything. That big ass chicken will come home to roost with a giant sized amount of vengeance when the US loses power. That's not a world you want to live in. The goal is to win as much as you can, as cheaply as you can, to expand the perception of your will and force to show power and get people to knuckle under to what you want, without a fight, out of fear of your power, setting the conditions for your economy. Pick your fights. Desert Storm was pretty good. Ukraine is good. Vietnam and Afghanistan, bad. Ukraine is great. We should support the hell out of Ukraine and monkey stomp the Russians. Because its good for us. It is, arguably, a lot like poker. When you want something, really bad, like bad actors to get in line, you bluff with force and they don't question your will; they submit without a fight. But if you want the world to respect your level of will, you have to win some hands and you need a track record of success. It doesn't really matter what hand, the effect is in your opponents mind, between his damn ears. Any hand will do, any fight will do. Just win, baby. Fold based on "if it will work" not "where is it" Our foreign policy fiascos the last fifty years has been staying too long with weak hands, not where or where not we were. My argument is we should be pushing ATCAMS and the kitchen sink and anything else, as monkey stomping the Rus with the Ukrainian army sets us up for success with respect to some bigger problems we have on the horizon, especially seeing our economy is sucking due to basic selfishness and stupidity. We have less margin for error and we NEED the Rus monkeystomped. Because the world is watching, especially China and Iran and Taiwan and Israel, and we can. Which is mostly all the matters. What we can, and cant, not what want or don't not want to do. Here, we can. So go do. And frogboiling isn't it, either. Burn that frog with a blowtorch and mail toasted frog parts to Xi. Let him smell some smoke. When that SOB longingly looks across the Strait of Formosa and gets silly ideas, and when the Supreme Leader thinks about building a nuke and firing it at Tel Aviv, they already know what our DoD budget looks like. They need to remember what our will looks like, which quite frankly has been called into question, and what blowtorched frog smells like. That saves us money and lives and resources later. Looking at silly maps and drawing lines and putting Ukraine on the wrong side of it is foolish. That's called credibility, and smarter men then us figured this out 75 years ago. That was fantastic. Agreed; a philosophy lesson based on history that needs no introduction. 
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Posted: 10/22/2022 4:57:42 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:07:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: I know this has been seen before, but this is tactically new. If you've seen it, and you probably have, disregard. But it deserves a look-see. We have squad on squad fighting, at hand grenade range, with basically a squad-level UAV dropping ordnance in support of the close fight. I'm sure its technically a platoon-or company asset, probably 500-1000 meters back behind this fight is the operator, but this is the lowest level of synchronization I've seen. Its not clear to me what the hell the guy is doing at 1:07, but the fact he hears the UAV and is waving and giving it a thumbs up means there is some sort of comms and some sort of synchronization going on. So. Squad level UAV dropping ordnance and delivering fire support in support of CQB. We knew it was heading this way, and figured it was happening somewhere, but hadn't yet seen it. At the squad level its not like you have ADA to do anything about this. This is significant; a new and dangerous development. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkJwSNF7gKoGrenade Drones a close air support for a squad makes sense now. With portability, there is no reason a grenadier can’t be the drone operator. I see this soon becoming like the RTS games like Command and Conquer or Dawn of War for drone operations. The infantry support vehicle is a mini carrier for a small fleet of copters. They use real time video for overwatch and to let soldiers know exactly where the enemy is. A man in the vehicle can launch semi autonomous drone swarms and simply click on an enemy position or individual heat signatures and instruct the drones to make the kills. They fly in unpredictable evasive patterns, drop grenades, and quickly return to rearm. Rinse and repeat as your troops mop up. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:07:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: In all honesty, I'm one of those "tired of being the worlds police" people. The thing is, most of us, not all of us, but most of us, are in all actuality, simply tired of being and ungrateful worlds policeman. You can only be told, Yankee go home, be called a murder and baby killer and your wife called a whore, so many times before you begin to think fuck this, why are we here if they feel this way about us. You can only have so many balloons filled with pain, urine and or feces thrown on you before you quit caring if their cities are leveled and their bodies burn in the fires of their own making. When country after country after country thumbs their collective noses at you, laugh at you, insult and deride you, simply for protecting them, yeah, it's tiring and weighs heavily on a person. All of that being said, no matter how tired we are, no matter how tired of their childish bullshit we become, no one can do this but us, we must not shirk our duty, we must stand against the forces of evil, even if we stand alone. For if not us, then who? For if not now, then when? We must not fail to delivery our tattered and stained principles of liberty and freedom to victory, or this world will truly become a dark place indeed. I would argue we are not the worlds police. A policeman gets paid a generally fixed wage to establish law and order, generally to set up an environment where others, such as businessmen, doctors, lawyers, etc.... get richin teh envioronment teh cop secures. We're less of an empire then the Brits and the Romans, we protect those who we need for trade, or those with friends who trade with, to set up a world community that chiefly benefits us. We protect our friends, a couple dozen...we blow off some regions of the world, they are a drag on our energy, we eyeball our adversaries and we help friends resist them. The last twenty years was elective and an overreach and we learned our lesson from it. It was an experiment in the potential of another society...which came up lacking. Taiwan has semiconductors, Taiwan has tech, Taiwan falling has an impact on our friends. Protecting Taiwan benefits us. A cop protecting things benefits someone other then him. I would argue its more of a poker game where we spend money to make others call, not because we care about them, but because others are watching us bet, fold, call. And that really big bet with the Chinese guy at the end of the table is the one that matters. This hand is about credibility. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:12:22 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By elcope: Well, we do. For the Euro's, that is an expensive luxury post 1991, plus it's cheaper to have the U.S. do the heavy lift. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By elcope: Originally Posted By sq40: If anything, you would think nations would have military supply warehousing and stockpiling down to a cold science. Peace is not the norm on planet Earth. Never has been. Europe is like being a guy that only has the two mags that came with the gun and a single box of ammo. WTF were they thinking? Well, we do. For the Euro's, that is an expensive luxury post 1991, plus it's cheaper to have the U.S. do the heavy lift. After this war, we won’t have a lot of competition for weapons systems. Buy American will be the best way to go. We need to prepare for whole new markets for weapons. And we need to get rid of the NFA so Americans can buy overstocked items. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:15:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 7empest: All I want to see is a Vulcan smoke a Hind. Best I can do.  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:17:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Kherson footage coming out.
BMP rolling into a town that's been freshly burnt down. https://t.me/mysiagin/16430 "Location Unknown"
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:18:27 PM EDT
[#19]
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NC, USA
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:20:14 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: To be honest, the stinger is pretty much considered obsolete, and going to be replaced by the Maneuver-Short Range Air Defense (M-SHORAD) system by 2027, with large manufacturing orders for it. Right, The stinger missile system is obsolete because a system that uses the missile in a four pod launcher is replacing it. Makes perfect sense. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:29:15 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:31:03 PM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:33:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#23]
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:35:59 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: That would be the general idea, but these obstacles seem pretty small for that purpose, especially against tanks. They aren't dug in or anything so I wonder how artillery or clearing charges might easily create a breach. They still have the connection on them so you can easily tow them away with a handy armored vehicle. Dragons teeth in ww2 seem much larger, and are deeper than two lines. The Ukrainians are calling it the Toblerone line, as it will melt like chocolate. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Toblerone_3362.jpg Siegfried line. http://www.nkytribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/siegfried-line.jpg Any of the UA tractors I have seen in these pages could easily hook a chain to those "dragons teeth" which still have the cast in rebar eyes on them and tow them away in seconds. For that matter my little 35 horse Kioti tractor could easily tow them out of the way. All you need to open a line to drive an armored vehicle thru is to move a couple of them. And how long would it take a T-64 tank or even a BMP to do just that? Those things are worthless as a line to stop armored vehicles. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:36:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: Best I can do. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/0A452E16-BF02-46A9-9217-C35089DC129D_jpe-2572431.JPG
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:38:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wwglen: Right, The stinger missile system is obsolete because a system that uses the missile in a four pod launcher is replacing it. Makes perfect sense. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wwglen: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: To be honest, the stinger is pretty much considered obsolete, and going to be replaced by the Maneuver-Short Range Air Defense (M-SHORAD) system by 2027, with large manufacturing orders for it. Right, The stinger missile system is obsolete because a system that uses the missile in a four pod launcher is replacing it. Makes perfect sense. Devil is always in the details. https://www.defensenews.com/land/2022/04/07/us-army-initiates-plan-to-replace-stingers-with-next-gen-interceptor/ “The Stinger-Reprogrammable Microprocessor (RMP) will become obsolete in [FY]23 and Stinger Block I is undergoing a service life extension to extend its end of useful life,” the RFI notes. “The current Stinger inventory is in decline.” According to the RFI, the Army plans to begin design and development of the replacement missile in FY23, which will lead to production of 10,000 M-SHORAD “Inc. 3″ missiles beginning in FY27. The RFI calls for soldier-portable solutions but also notes the system must be capable of integration with the Stinger Vehicle Universal Launcher (a component in the Increment 1 Stryker-based SHORAD system already fielded). The Army expects the new missile to offer “improved target acquisition with increased lethality and ranges over current capability,” the RFI states. https://breakingdefense.com/2022/04/facing-obsolete-parts-raytheon-struggling-to-replace-stingers-sent-to-ukraine/ “We’ve been working with the DoD [Department of Defense] for the last couple of weeks,” Hayes said during an earnings call. “We’re actively trying to resource some of the material. Unfortunately, DoD hasn’t bought a Stinger in about 18 years. Some of components are no longer commercially available, and so we’re going to have to go out and redesign some of the electronics in the missile of the seeker head. “That’s going to take us a little bit of time,” he said. While the company hopes to increase Stinger production as much as it can this year, Hayes said it will likely take until the 2023 to 2024 timeframe to surge to the levels needed to recapitalize the stockpile. Currently, the shoulder-mounted Stinger is still in “limited production” for an international customer. That customer is providing much of the obsolete components needed for its own Stingers, and the remaining pool of obsolete parts is limited, a source told Breaking Defense. The source declined to name the partner. Further, much of Raytheon’s workforce is trained to manufacture the more advanced missiles currently in demand by the US services, like Tomahawk cruise missiles or the AIM-120 AMRAAM air-to-air missile. In contrast, little automation is used to build the Stinger, with artisan workers doing much of the fabrication by hand, the source said. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:42:59 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryYou darn right. it will be a lot better to surrender. And if anyone stands in the way of that peaceful surrender like an officer behind you, then shoot him and then surrender. You will live much longer, and have a chance of seeing your loved ones again someday. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:43:44 PM EDT
[#28]
It's looking like Russia isn't going to fight for Kherson.
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:46:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THOT_Vaccine: We are what... five/six weeks into la grande mobilisation What Russian army doing? Dying mostly. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:54:28 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: Discussions about how effective the Russians are miss the bigger picture, and the elephant in the room. Power equals force times will. You can have all the money on weapons you like, but without will, build more, buy more, you don't have power anyone respects. Jimmy Carter didn't have that much smaller a military then Reagan, but power was worlds apart. After WWII the US defined Europe as its area of interest. George Kennan, and his white paper NSC68, argued correctly that your credibility and will is called into question if you stand aside for Communism. If you don't show will worldwide, countries that are in your area of interest will question your will to support them. It all matters, you cant put a boundary on will and credibility. That's why you fight Communists in Korea, to show resolve to NATO that you'll fight for them. -snip-
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:55:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: LurkerII]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: Best I can do. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/0A452E16-BF02-46A9-9217-C35089DC129D_jpe-2572431.JPG Ironic photoshop as Nimoy died from COPD from smoking. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/22/2022 6:01:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: There is some speculation in saying "Russia proved they're no threat." If the three-day decapitation had actually worked, Russia would have had a great live-training exercise for extending that to Baltics, which they had publicly said they wanted. If their initial plan had worked, they would be in full control of everything east of Lviv, and all Moldova. Who knows if they really would have rolled into the Baltics, but the calculus would have been dramatically different throughout the West, and Russia would currently be looking far scarier right now. "Big, bad Russia" would be back, and perception is in some ways more important that reality. We now perceive Russia to be weak and a paper tiger. If things had gone differently, we would perceive Russia to be as strong as they claim to be, and our policy would reflect that perception. They lost the war in the first week. Or more accurately, they lost before they started with terrible intel and analysis on Ukraine, then going full steam ahead with a retardedly flawed plan. But for a 2nd World military (and 2nd rate), they have showed they are willing to sacrifice. Stupidly, needlessly, and idiotically but willing to jump into the meatgrinder. Name one democratic country anywhere in the world, including the USA that could or would have taken such casualties and kept doubling, tripling down, throwing more men and materiel into a lost cause. That "commitment" has to have a certain weight, at least in Europe. Even in a full-on WWIII, 60K KIA in 6 months of conventional combat would have led to impeachment if not actual revolt here in the USA. If Russia had stumbled onto a great leader (yes, I know their culture probably weeds out greatness) and Ukraine's Zelensky stumbled or waffled in the beginning, we could have been seeing the scenario above. Could the Russian army of Feb 23rd have taken Ukraine given the right plan executed with some great leaders? Obviously they lacked both but what if? |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 6:05:09 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Vulcan /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/5ddc336bfd9db244c913783d-460.gif Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Originally Posted By 7empest: All I want to see is a Vulcan smoke a Hind. ETA: Or a Frogfoot that would also be acceptable Vulcan /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/5ddc336bfd9db244c913783d-460.gif Seconded. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 6:07:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By atavistic: It's looking like Russia isn't going to fight for Kherson. Their push for Bakhmut is starting to make sense, at least to this nobody. Resupply lines have no natural barriers to Russia itself and it’s about centered in territory they control. I saw a Wagner telegram post saying as much a couple of days ago, that they were going to give up the edges and take all of Ukraine from the center. The Russian army in Kherson can’t be allowed to retreat. It has to be destroyed or surrender. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 6:08:17 PM EDT
[#35]
It doesn’t make sense for Russia to attempt an advance at the present.
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Posted: 10/22/2022 6:09:54 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Frank_B: Ukrainian cows >> Afganistani goats? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Frank_B: Originally Posted By toaster:
Ukrainian cows >> Afganistani goats? A faithful larper in a goat costume?
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Posted: 10/22/2022 6:24:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: That would be the general idea, but these obstacles seem pretty small for that purpose, especially against tanks. They aren't dug in or anything so I wonder how artillery or clearing charges might easily create a breach. They still have the connection on them so you can easily tow them away with a handy armored vehicle. Dragons teeth in ww2 seem much larger, and are deeper than two lines. The Ukrainians are calling it the Toblerone line, as it will melt like chocolate. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Toblerone_3362.jpg Siegfried line. http://www.nkytribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/siegfried-line.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Flogger23m: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ffrv8cfXEAIQAAU?format=jpg&name=900x900 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfrwEz0XkAc_ZMk?format=jpg&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfrwRF6WYAYebtM?format=jpg&name=small So is wrong here? Limiting their ability to retreat? I wouldn't know but it seems like they're trying to funnel vehicles into roads that have artillery zeroed in. That would be the general idea, but these obstacles seem pretty small for that purpose, especially against tanks. They aren't dug in or anything so I wonder how artillery or clearing charges might easily create a breach. They still have the connection on them so you can easily tow them away with a handy armored vehicle. Dragons teeth in ww2 seem much larger, and are deeper than two lines. The Ukrainians are calling it the Toblerone line, as it will melt like chocolate. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Toblerone_3362.jpg Siegfried line. http://www.nkytribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/siegfried-line.jpg You guys really need to quit posting food, now I want a Toblerone! I haven't had one in ages!
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USA
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Posted: 10/22/2022 6:25:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HIPPO]
[#38]
5 mins ago
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USA
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Posted: 10/22/2022 6:27:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Posted an hour ago
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Posted: 10/22/2022 6:28:50 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: Grenade Drones a close air support for a squad makes sense now. With portability, there is no reason a grenadier can’t be the drone operator. I see this soon becoming like the RTS games like Command and Conquer or Dawn of War for drone operations. The infantry support vehicle is a mini carrier for a small fleet of copters. They use real time video for overwatch and to let soldiers know exactly where the enemy is. A man in the vehicle can launch semi autonomous drone swarms and simply click on an enemy position or individual heat signatures and instruct the drones to make the kills. They fly in unpredictable evasive patterns, drop grenades, and quickly return to rearm. Rinse and repeat as your troops mop up. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By CharlieR: I know this has been seen before, but this is tactically new. If you've seen it, and you probably have, disregard. But it deserves a look-see. We have squad on squad fighting, at hand grenade range, with basically a squad-level UAV dropping ordnance in support of the close fight. I'm sure its technically a platoon-or company asset, probably 500-1000 meters back behind this fight is the operator, but this is the lowest level of synchronization I've seen. Its not clear to me what the hell the guy is doing at 1:07, but the fact he hears the UAV and is waving and giving it a thumbs up means there is some sort of comms and some sort of synchronization going on. So. Squad level UAV dropping ordnance and delivering fire support in support of CQB. We knew it was heading this way, and figured it was happening somewhere, but hadn't yet seen it. At the squad level its not like you have ADA to do anything about this. This is significant; a new and dangerous development. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkJwSNF7gKoGrenade Drones a close air support for a squad makes sense now. With portability, there is no reason a grenadier can’t be the drone operator. I see this soon becoming like the RTS games like Command and Conquer or Dawn of War for drone operations. The infantry support vehicle is a mini carrier for a small fleet of copters. They use real time video for overwatch and to let soldiers know exactly where the enemy is. A man in the vehicle can launch semi autonomous drone swarms and simply click on an enemy position or individual heat signatures and instruct the drones to make the kills. They fly in unpredictable evasive patterns, drop grenades, and quickly return to rearm. Rinse and repeat as your troops mop up. Drone “coaching” for riflemen is another potentially awesome use. One thing that stands out in these close contact videos is how often the riflemen have little idea where the enemy is or where fire is coming from. Even within 20-50 yards. A visual indicator would tell riflemen where to put fire and let them make better decisions to reposition. At night an IR laser pointer would be perfect. In the daytime I’m not sure a laser spot would be seen. Ideally there could be an enemy azimuth and distance indicator transmitted from the drone to an electronic rifle sight. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/22/2022 6:29:07 PM EDT
[#41]
Rashist cope bait
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USA
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Posted: 10/22/2022 6:34:22 PM EDT
[#42]
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WI, USA
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Posted: 10/22/2022 6:35:23 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryIsn't it a bad thing to have prisoners making statements like this for video? Isn't it considered a crime in some circumstances? In the case of Russians in Ukraine, I'm 99% sure all of these videos are 100% voluntary, but it just seems weird. And they should make sure to include the prisoner saying that he's speaking voluntarily with no coercion. Not that Russians would believe it. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 6:35:33 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Drone “coaching” for riflemen is another potentially awesome use. One thing that stands out in these close contact videos is how often the riflemen have little idea where the enemy is or where fire is coming from. Even within 20-50 yards. A visual indicator would tell riflemen where to put fire and let them make better decisions to reposition. At night an IR laser pointer would be perfect. In the daytime I’m not sure a laser spot would be seen. Ideally there could be an enemy azimuth and distance indicator transmitted from the drone to an electronic rifle sight. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By CharlieR: I know this has been seen before, but this is tactically new. If you've seen it, and you probably have, disregard. But it deserves a look-see. We have squad on squad fighting, at hand grenade range, with basically a squad-level UAV dropping ordnance in support of the close fight. I'm sure its technically a platoon-or company asset, probably 500-1000 meters back behind this fight is the operator, but this is the lowest level of synchronization I've seen. Its not clear to me what the hell the guy is doing at 1:07, but the fact he hears the UAV and is waving and giving it a thumbs up means there is some sort of comms and some sort of synchronization going on. So. Squad level UAV dropping ordnance and delivering fire support in support of CQB. We knew it was heading this way, and figured it was happening somewhere, but hadn't yet seen it. At the squad level its not like you have ADA to do anything about this. This is significant; a new and dangerous development. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkJwSNF7gKoGrenade Drones a close air support for a squad makes sense now. With portability, there is no reason a grenadier can’t be the drone operator. I see this soon becoming like the RTS games like Command and Conquer or Dawn of War for drone operations. The infantry support vehicle is a mini carrier for a small fleet of copters. They use real time video for overwatch and to let soldiers know exactly where the enemy is. A man in the vehicle can launch semi autonomous drone swarms and simply click on an enemy position or individual heat signatures and instruct the drones to make the kills. They fly in unpredictable evasive patterns, drop grenades, and quickly return to rearm. Rinse and repeat as your troops mop up. Drone “coaching” for riflemen is another potentially awesome use. One thing that stands out in these close contact videos is how often the riflemen have little idea where the enemy is or where fire is coming from. Even within 20-50 yards. A visual indicator would tell riflemen where to put fire and let them make better decisions to reposition. At night an IR laser pointer would be perfect. In the daytime I’m not sure a laser spot would be seen. Ideally there could be an enemy azimuth and distance indicator transmitted from the drone to an electronic rifle sight. Augmented reality will be the killer app for soldiers I think. Just getting instructions, maps, and enemy locations on a HUD would greatly improve lethality and survival. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 6:48:58 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO: 5 mins ago
I'm honestly shocked that they stayed on the Western side of the Dnipro as long as they did. Unfortunately, as I said a few pages back, I think they're making the right move by withdrawing, even though it's coming much later than it should have. Ultimately, one of the biggest unanswered questions for me is, how hard is Russia willing to fight for Kherson city itself? More importantly, how hard are they even capable of fighting at this point? In spite of some rumors I've seen thrown around over the last few days, I doubt the Russians are going to abandon Kherson city the way they appear to be withdrawing from their positions in Kherson Oblast west of the Dnipro. Should the Ukrainians retake Kherson city, they'll be able to hammer Crimea with GMLRS, they might be able to cut off the water to Crimea (I'm a bit iffy on how that works, so someone more knowledgeable will hopefully respond), and in general, losing Kherson city would be an enormous loss that I doubt even Russian State TV is capable of whitewashing. Thus, I'm reasonably convinced that the Russians are going to fight as hard as they can to hold onto Kherson city. However, at this point, most of Russia's best combat power has been heavily attrited. I don't think they can throw much well trained infantry into a hypothetical defense of Kherson city. On the flipside, though, urban battles like Fallujah, Grozny, and dozens of other clearing operations in Iraq/Syria demonstrate that in urban environments, defenders that lack lots of formal training can still put up a very hard fight, especially if they've had time to fortify the city they're defending. The caveat here is that Russian morale is horrendous, so I doubt that tenacity, ingenuity, and a willingness to die will make up for their lack of training in any noteworthy way. Overall, I think the Ukrainians will eventually retake Kherson city, and I can also see the few remaining halfway decent units Russia has left getting massacred defending it. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 6:50:55 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: Augmented reality will be the killer app for soldiers I think. Just getting instructions, maps, and enemy locations on a HUD would greatly improve lethality and survival. I'm currently part of the group testing out the integration of the infantry IVAS with the AH64E. It's a game changer for sure purely from the C2 side of the house, not to mention the other benefits. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 6:51:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Freiheit8472]
[#47]
@almightytallest no worries brother! It was a nice small event. It really shows how “grass roots” and microscopic all the support that in aggregate supports Ukraine. Rip routinely apologized for referring to the father (or what the proper Ukrainian word is) as “Chaplin” since that how they referred to them in the Marines.
The father of the church gave an AWESOME little sermon. A Christian that doesn’t fight evil is a COWARD! Such great people… One of the members took part in the thing where they were having people randomly call Russians to try and explain reality…. They all talked about how hard and brainwashing Russia was for a whole after that. One time rip asked them to turn the cameras off to talk about a fellow in their group (whose name I couldn’t ever remember in order to compromise him) that was working on Ukr natural gas infrastructure. Interesting insights. I asked about how prevalent and his opinion on the Russians volunteering to fight for Ukr. In his opinion that was a pr push, since is really hard to do that in a legally compliant way. But he said a lot of Russian pows were dumbfounded and wanted to help in some way after being enlightened. It was a really nice small event and when I opened the door looking for a seat I was face to face with rip! I really expected a hoopla but it was people all coming together for Ukraine and we were all on the same team. Quite humbling. I bought the vichiynya? (I don’t remember the proper word) off a church girl that made it and she had served in the US army…. They were such awesome people… I have ONLY blurred my face because of the Russian shills that occasion our space and as others have done. (It’s totally not because I look fat these days…).  
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Posted: 10/22/2022 6:55:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MouseBoy]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: I'm honestly shocked that they stayed on the Western side of the Dnipro as long as they did. Unfortunately, as I said a few pages back, I think they're making the right move by withdrawing, even though it's coming much later than it should have. Ultimately, one of the biggest unanswered questions for me is, how hard is Russia willing to fight for Kherson city itself? More importantly, how hard are they even capable of fighting at this point? In spite of some rumors I've seen thrown around over the last few days, I doubt the Russians are going to abandon Kherson city the way they appear to be withdrawing from their positions in Kherson Oblast west of the Dnipro. Should the Ukrainians retake Kherson city, they'll be able to hammer Crimea with GMLRS, they might be able to cut off the water to Crimea (I'm a bit iffy on how that works, so someone more knowledgeable will hopefully respond), and in general, losing Kherson city would be an enormous loss that I doubt even Russian State TV is capable of whitewashing. Thus, I'm reasonably convinced that the Russians are going to fight as hard as they can to hold onto Kherson city. However, at this point, most of Russia's best combat power has been heavily attrited. I don't think they can throw much well trained infantry into a hypothetical defense of Kherson city. On the flipside, though, urban battles like Fallujah, Grozny, and dozens of other clearing operations in Iraq/Syria demonstrate that in urban environments, defenders that lack lots of formal training can still put up a very hard fight, especially if they've had time to fortify the city they're defending. The caveat here is that Russian morale is horrendous, so I doubt that tenacity, ingenuity, and a willingness to die will make up for their lack of training in any noteworthy way. Overall, I think the Ukrainians will eventually retake Kherson city, and I can also see the few remaining halfway decent units Russia has left getting massacred defending it. The UA just needs to surround Kherson and contain the Russians in the City. All the time trying not to concentrate forces too densely around the City. The Russians will eventually leave as supplies will become more difficult to obtain. A big UA mistake would be an epic attack on Kherson City and concentrating forces too densely around/in the City. It shouldn't take much to contain the Ruskys in the City and they won't have the ability to make substantial break out very far. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 6:57:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RustedAce]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Freiheit8472: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/539199/0FE48BCF-D61F-4B48-B0EC-060384855707-2572508.jpg SANDYBOTTOMS. Those that know know. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 7:01:32 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: The west’s war aim is to grind Russia to powder and the question is how to accomplish that. I'm cynical enough about the level of competence the US Government has, but my leading theory is that we're causing the Russians to strip forces everywhere else to throw into UA and that once their air defenses are thin to the point of useless and their missile fields left with skeleton crews we'll permit a situation to provoke a verifiable launch order and proceed to use conventional means to dismantle Russia's nuclear capability. A post few weeks back in this thread enumerating Russia's current delivery systems brings this theory into the realm of the possible. |
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