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Posted: 9/10/2022 6:34:04 PM EDT
[#1]
Last I looked was at 6am this morning. Catching up now and still 7 pages behind .
Holy hell!!!! Seems like they are running all the way back to Russia. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/10/2022 6:34:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dillydilly: Can someone explain to someone like me whose been out of the scoop on the war as to why the Russians are tucking tail? Is this all a result of all of those ammo depot attacks over the past few months, Western weapon deliveries finally making their mark? This all feels surreal like in the early days of the war when Ukraine pushed the orcs out of the Kiev oblast. It’s a well organized offensive utilizing NATO doctrine vs whatever Russia is used to…Ruskies have no real chance honestly. Their equipment sucks…they can’t establish any sort of supremacy in any discipline…when you are met with a up beat and well trained counter offensive who want you out of their country with 5x better equipment and intel…this is what you get. However I am surprised at the speed which this is taking place…the humiliation is real and I think this is EXACTY what we needed to shut Russia but more importantly have China second guessing their activities… |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 6:36:21 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: ISW assessment for yesterday.  https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-september-9 And the info in it seems to have already been out of date before it was even released. They are definitely falling behind, but things are moving very rapidly. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 6:37:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mbinky: There are only two locations in the US that can overhaul M1 series tanks. LATP (Lima Army Tank Plant) ANAD (Anniston Army Depot) Only one of these can refurb an older M1 chassis 100% (hint: not the depot) The other one can do it like 90% and sends the turret to the other one for completion. Right now the only tank you can "buy" is a new SEP V3. Lines are full. Active duty US Army deliveries may be pushed back, no way we could pull old M1 hulls from the graveyard and throw them in the mix for FMS. When the USMC had the A1 FEP's there was a line at ANAD dedicated to them. That's gone now. This is not even getting into the lack of spare parts for anything less than a SEP V2 or V3. The M1A2 SEP V4 comes out in 2025, no one is manufacturing components for the A1's anymore.  How hard would it be to start that USMC line back up or add a new line to either or both plants? |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 6:40:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Changed]
[#5]
Can someone post the link to the Ukrainian music and bands thread, I've lost it.
Here's a version of Hey, Sokoly! with English captions.  ???? ???? ???, ??????! / Hej, sokoly! – Ukrainian/Polish folk song Thanks. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 6:43:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dillydilly: Can someone explain to someone like me whose been out of the scoop on the war as to why the Russians are tucking tail? Is this all a result of all of those ammo depot attacks over the past few months, Western weapon deliveries finally making their mark? This all feels surreal like in the early days of the war when Ukraine pushed the orcs out of the Kiev oblast. 'Their leadership sucks. Their equipment sucks. Their soldiers suck. Their communication sucks. Their soldiers suck. Their tactics sucks. And their doctrine sucks. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 6:44:13 PM EDT
[#7]
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2022 6:45:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Absolutely. A lot of it will come down to what tooling for indigenous systems was or wasn’t destroyed in the war, what they can get favorable contracts for support or local production, what has more service life in it, etc. I think the BTR-4 is here to stay for instance, if the line can be repaired. I don’t think they will modernize any more BRDMs. The T/64s are basically all destroyed per an interview with an armor officer, but they have T-80s and T-72s yet. The AK-74s will almost certainly be stockpiled but they aren’t likely to make more. A good question is what happens with the small numbers of western systems. Will they retain some? Will they buy more? Will they return them? Will they sell them? Is Britain going to take the CVRTs back? I have questions. The T-72 could actually be a good chassis for a SPAAG… now you’ve got me thinking. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: You will also get to see anomalies where stuff is sold off based on factors outside of the World of Tanks considerations. We may well see the Ukes retain systems like the M113 variants for the territorials while selling off later-vintage BMPs, or retaining M-14s while selling off AK-74s, or later T72/T90 variants being sold before T64s, since differences in performance are only one factor that goes into keeping or selling off a system. Sometimes, force requirements, FMS demand, fleet size/management, maintenance concerns, system interchangeability/interoperability, etc, can be equal to (and sometimes grater than) pure system performance issues. Absolutely. A lot of it will come down to what tooling for indigenous systems was or wasn’t destroyed in the war, what they can get favorable contracts for support or local production, what has more service life in it, etc. I think the BTR-4 is here to stay for instance, if the line can be repaired. I don’t think they will modernize any more BRDMs. The T/64s are basically all destroyed per an interview with an armor officer, but they have T-80s and T-72s yet. The AK-74s will almost certainly be stockpiled but they aren’t likely to make more. A good question is what happens with the small numbers of western systems. Will they retain some? Will they buy more? Will they return them? Will they sell them? Is Britain going to take the CVRTs back? I have questions. The T-72 could actually be a good chassis for a SPAAG… now you’ve got me thinking. Regarding Western Systems, I doubt anything, small arms to missiles, firing a STANAG caliber is going out of the UKR inventory or going home anytime soon. They probably will retain the M113 variants since the received a buttload of those, and they really are handy and relatively easy to use/maintain as long as you avoid playing stupid games with tanks or IFVs. The rest of it will be based on the usual factors sometime after the war. The T73/90 vs T64/T80/T84 will probably also be a numbers game based on intact hulls; One thing that favors the T64 is that the Ukes have put a lot of thought into upgrades, and it is a better overall design. However, if enough T64/80 variants get blown up in combat, that metric will have to be taken into account, In short, we probably won't have much clarity beyond that until this round of shooting stops. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 6:46:47 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 9/10/2022 6:52:47 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Wow, huge gains for Ukraine. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 6:52:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Easterner]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Changed: Can someone post the link to the Ukrainian music and bands thread, I've lost it. Here's a version of Hey, Sokoly! with English captions.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Ha80EgaB0Thanks.  PROBASS ? HARDI - ?????? ?????? (feat. ANNA BULAT)  Ukrainian Army: ?? ? ???? ??????? ?????? [REMIX]  Chico & Qatoshi - ???????? ???  YARMAK FT. ALISA - ???? ????(ANIMATION CLIP)  Kalush Orchestra - Stefania (Official Video Eurovision 2022)  ?? ? ???? ??????? ?????? | Foma Daemon REMIX / ?????? |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 6:55:24 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Changed: Can someone post the link to the Ukrainian music and bands thread, I've lost it. Here's a version of Hey, Sokoly! with English captions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Ha80EgaB0Thanks. Would be my pleasure. 😉 https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Official-Ukrainian-War-music-thread/5-2551840/? |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 6:57:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow: Ukraine would have been fucked if not for the US. I consider it Korea and Vietnam payback time. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow: Originally Posted By twistedLV: I cannot begin to express my gratitude to the SME's in this thread. As a guy that has zero military experience, your insights are gold. At the outset, I figured Ukraine was screwed quickly. You told me otherwise, and you were right. Now I will return to my normally scheduled shut up and learn routine.  Ukraine would have been fucked if not for the US. I consider it Korea and Vietnam payback time. You’re right and it is. My stepdad’s dad fought in Korea and my dad fought in Vietnam. Both lived. Payback is 50 years overdue. That said, Ukraine is doing both us and Europe (particularly Europe) a massive service. They’re paying the blood toll, so let’s not get into “you owe us.” Regardless of payback, this is without question the best thing the US has done since the end of WWII. Not only is it right from a national interest perspective, it’s right from a moral perspective. I have some qualms here and there about how we’re going about it, but I believe I understand the method and I can’t argue with it. Ukraine and Europe will be safe and free, and a strategic rival will be removed from the board at a bargain price. I do truly feel sad for Russians who did not deserve this, all the families that lost sons, but…handle your shit at home, people. You allowed this. Now handle it, and don’t make that mistake again. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 6:58:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Changed]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dillydilly: Would be my pleasure. 😉 https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Official-Ukrainian-War-music-thread/5-2551840/? Thanks, unfortunately it's been archived. Start another or post stuff here? Have some Cossaks.  ??????????? ???? (Zaporozhian Cossack march) eta- this is a really funny folk song also  Ukrainian Folk Song - Ty Zh Mene Pidmanula (?? ? ???? ?????????) |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 6:59:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Absolutely. A lot of it will come down to what tooling for indigenous systems was or wasn’t destroyed in the war, what they can get favorable contracts for support or local production, what has more service life in it, etc. I think the BTR-4 is here to stay for instance, if the line can be repaired. I don’t think they will modernize any more BRDMs. The T/64s are basically all destroyed per an interview with an armor officer, but they have T-80s and T-72s yet. The AK-74s will almost certainly be stockpiled but they aren’t likely to make more. A good question is what happens with the small numbers of western systems. Will they retain some? Will they buy more? Will they return them? Will they sell them? Is Britain going to take the CVRTs back? I have questions. The T-72 could actually be a good chassis for a SPAAG… now you’ve got me thinking. There are a lot of ways the UAF could play their procurement options, it will be really quite interesting. They have every reason in the world to cooperate with the likes of Finland, Czechia, and Poland for industrial cooperation, let alone what second-line systems they can use to backfill the TDF and reserves for decades, if the budget situation requires it. If Poland is getting NINETY-SIX Apaches, in a few years we could see a similar number requested by Ukraine. ECE Countries are FUCKING DONE taking Russia's shit any more.  |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 6:59:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Zhukov]
[#16]
Here's my guess for what's happened: Ukraine held on for as long as possible in the face of the usual way of Russian warfare: Indiscriminate destruction of the country being invaded. Russian morale was crappy all along, even when they were making gains. HIMARS was the turning point. Since then, I think Russian morale has started swinging toward outright mutiny. They still have a lot of men, a lot of armaments (albeit less than they used to), but the only thing that explains such large gains is a collapse of the average Russian soldier's will to fight.
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USA
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:00:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: How hard would it be to start that USMC line back up or add a new line to either or both plants? I honestly do not know, but I bet they could. The issue is PARTS. PARTS PARTS PARTS. M1A1 parts are in scarce supply. The USMC could barely feed their tanks in the field (thats why FMS took a hit when they got rid of tanks, no more .gov money for obsolete parts). I observed a US unit at gunnery a month or so ago, with M1A1 SA's. Our tankers need training, our mechanics need training, but what killed them was parts. Non-existent. Selective interchange was the order of the day.  |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:00:41 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: Pro Russia YouTubers blaming the defeat on the notion that Russia ceeded control of the war to the Donbas millitia leaders  Russia wil win in the endof course 22:00 Copium waste of a click Funny (ironic) to see a gay dude so pro Putin and Russia, does he know how the Orcs feel about gays? |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:01:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Abakan: Pretty sure those stored Leopard 1 would take the T-72s lunchmoney and shove them in the locker just because. Equal crews? Edge to the T-72B3. As much as I hate to say that. A Leopard is going to have a hard time penetrating them, whereas a 30-57mm autocannon puts a Leo 1 at risk FROM THE FRONT. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:03:58 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Changed: Thanks, unfortunately it's been archived. Start another or post stuff here? Have some Cossaks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuZ2pBShKEgI did post here at first but most of the stuff got buried since everyone was posting at a rapid pace. Starting a new thread will result in the same archival that my original one got. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:11:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: You're right and it is. My stepdad's dad fought in Korea and my dad fought in Vietnam. Both lived. Payback is 50 years overdue. That said, Ukraine is doing both us and Europe (particularly Europe) a massive service. They're paying the blood toll, so let's not get into "you owe us." Regardless of payback, this is without question the best thing the US has done since the end of WWII. Not only is it right from a national interest perspective, it's right from a moral perspective. I have some qualms here and there about how we're going about it, but I believe I understand the method and I can't argue with it. Ukraine and Europe will be safe and free, and a strategic rival will be removed from the board at a bargain price. I do truly feel sad for Russians who did not deserve this, all the families that lost sons, but handle your shit at home, people. You allowed this. Now handle it, and don't make that mistake again. Whatever we contribute to help the Ukrainians is indeed a pittance compared to the blood the Ukrainians are spilling and the guts they have shown. When it is over if there is a debt, it will be us that owes it. Money is nothing to us, a tiny blip to our budget, weapons are nothing, we have lots and can make more. The Ukrainian men and women fighting now, are avenging ours who bled elsewhere decades ago. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:11:04 PM EDT
[#22]
These assessments are epic when he releases them.
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:19:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: These assessments are epic when he releases them.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcVE8FYXoAEtpHU?format=jpg&name=large
Yeah, his assessments are awesome. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:24:21 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu:  Guaranteed that Ukrainian leadership can do military tactical and strategic planning better than the CIA. And it's been reliably reported that the US provides intel, but only Ukraine calls the shots for what to do with it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By Yobro512:I can't fathom any of this without a full strategic and tactical breakdown from the CIA every 8 hours straight to UKR central command. I assume all movement are updated and diagnosed by the CIA and relayed to UKR. Guaranteed that Ukrainian leadership can do military tactical and strategic planning better than the CIA. And it's been reliably reported that the US provides intel, but only Ukraine calls the shots for what to do with it. I never claimed that the USA is calling the shots but I’ve also no doubt the Ukrainians aren’t utilizing the best reconnaissance infrastructure the worlds ever had. I’m more claiming that the CIA is doing UKR’s bidding more than vice versa. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:27:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Here's my guess for what's happened: Ukraine held on for as long as possible in the face of the usual way of Russian warfare: Indiscriminate destruction of the country being invaded. Russian morale was crappy all along, even when they were making gains. HIMARS was the turning point. Since then, I think Russian morale has started swinging toward outright mutiny. They still have a lot of men, a lot of armaments (albeit less than they used to), but the only thing that explains such large gains is a collapse of the average Russian soldier's will to fight. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:30:28 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By YaNi05: Basically the Russians don't have near enough grunts to occupy all the territory they have. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By YaNi05: Originally Posted By Lightning_P38: Originally Posted By dillydilly: Can someone explain to someone like me whose been out of the scoop on the war as to why the Russians are tucking tail? Is this all a result of all of those ammo depot attacks over the past few months, Western weapon deliveries finally making their mark? This all feels surreal like in the early days of the war when Ukraine pushed the orcs out of the Kiev oblast. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:30:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mbinky: There are only two locations in the US that can overhaul M1 series tanks. LATP (Lima Army Tank Plant) ANAD (Anniston Army Depot) Only one of these can refurb an older M1 chassis 100% (hint: not the depot) The other one can do it like 90% and sends the turret to the other one for completion. Right now the only tank you can "buy" is a new SEP V3. Lines are full. Active duty US Army deliveries may be pushed back, no way we could pull old M1 hulls from the graveyard and throw them in the mix for FMS. When the USMC had the A1 FEP's there was a line at ANAD dedicated to them. That's gone now. This is not even getting into the lack of spare parts for anything less than a SEP V2 or V3. The M1A2 SEP V4 comes out in 2025, no one is manufacturing components for the A1's anymore. If demand exists capacity for parts and refurbishments can be increased. But I don’t know that the appetite for that expenditure exists. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:31:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: THOT_Vaccine]
[#28]
Dinpro Twitch gamer gets sucked back into the real world quite suddenly, |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:33:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Easterner]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THOT_Vaccine:
Dinpro Twitch gamer gets sucked back into the real world quite suddenly, Yeah no shit. Listened to it myself. Something is on fire. I fully expect the bullshit rocket and cruise missile attacks to step up. They are losing at the actual front... "Let's attack more civilians!" |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:34:11 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lightning_P38: I had two great uncles and a grandfather who fought in Korea, both uncles were leg infantry. My father in Vietnam. The payback is way overdue. Whatever we contribute to help the Ukrainians is indeed a pittance compared to the blood the Ukrainians are spilling and the guts they have shown. When it is over if there is a debt, it will be us that owes it. Money is nothing to us, a tiny blip to our budget, weapons are nothing, we have lots and can make more. The Ukrainian men and women fighting now, are avenging ours who bled elsewhere decades ago. Thank you for saying this. You are right. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:37:58 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: I do truly feel sad for Russians who did not deserve this, all the families that lost sons, but…handle your shit at home, people. You allowed this. Now handle it, and don’t make that mistake again. They can't really do anything with the fsb everywhere, they did in 2014 and a bunch of them disappeared. China and Taiwan will be no different. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:38:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow: Ukraine would have been fucked if not for the US. I consider it Korea and Vietnam payback time. And more! If you count up the number of Americans who died as a result of Soviet aggression and Soviet weapons, then there's quite a bill to be paid. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:38:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Is there anywhere to find out what russian soldiers and russians are saying about this? It's hard to cover this up. The fact that I don't speak or read russian is already a bit of a handicap.
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USA
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:42:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mbinky]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: If demand exists capacity for parts and refurbishments can be increased. But I don’t know that the appetite for that expenditure exists. Unfortunately it's not just money. No one wants to produce the components. Some parts are so old they need new pieces (transistors that haven't been built in 20 years.,etc). These newly designed boards need to be re-certified. Hypothetical. The USMC had some old thermal parts they bought in 2004 or so. Ten year warranty. We ran them until 2020. We tried to get new circuit cards made to fix the components. The price for the new cards exceeded the original purchase price of the whole system, and the only vendor who would produce them was in Australia. No just money, it's tooling up and remaking old technology. No one wants to do that. After the contract what can you do with the product? |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:43:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Easterner]
[#35]
"Surveillance video of today's arrival in Dnipro. Watch with sound. Many people in the central part of the city had their windows blown out.".
 Attached File |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:43:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Changed: Can someone post the link to the Ukrainian music and bands thread, I've lost it. Here's a version of Hey, Sokoly! with English captions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Ha80EgaB0Thanks.  Mirami - ??????? ?????? / Red Viburnum | Subscribe to @Mirami |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:44:07 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easterner: Yeah no shit. Listened to it myself. Something is on fire. I fully expect the bullshit rocket and cruise missile attacks to step up. They are losing at the actual front... "Let's attack more civilians!" Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easterner: Originally Posted By THOT_Vaccine:
Dinpro Twitch gamer gets sucked back into the real world quite suddenly, Yeah no shit. Listened to it myself. Something is on fire. I fully expect the bullshit rocket and cruise missile attacks to step up. They are losing at the actual front... "Let's attack more civilians!" The logic of those attacks escapes me. It's like they don't care about military objectives. They use the few effective weapons at their disposal to make everyone more angry. It's fucking stupid on top of just being evil for evil's sake. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:48:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sordidmesh: Thank you for saying this. You are right. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sordidmesh: Originally Posted By Lightning_P38: I had two great uncles and a grandfather who fought in Korea, both uncles were leg infantry. My father in Vietnam. The payback is way overdue. Whatever we contribute to help the Ukrainians is indeed a pittance compared to the blood the Ukrainians are spilling and the guts they have shown. When it is over if there is a debt, it will be us that owes it. Money is nothing to us, a tiny blip to our budget, weapons are nothing, we have lots and can make more. The Ukrainian men and women fighting now, are avenging ours who bled elsewhere decades ago. Thank you for saying this. You are right. Indeed. I never quite grasped how so many here didn't grasp the scale of the annual US/NATO defence budget and the amount that over the years was needed to counter Russia in their great being a asshole project. All versus the amount that was donated to Ukraine who were motivated in a liberty or death battle to neuter Russian conventional forces. I consider it pennies on the dollar and that's even not taking in to account lost of stuf as due for replacement anyway and genarated US arms sales providing employment for Americans. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:50:09 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryWhatever RU communications is occurring, everything is being monitored. Even their re-group locations are being monitored, if there's any. It looks more like a full rout, which is what conscripts do. Hopefully they head back home |
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USA
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:56:24 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Equal crews? Edge to the T-72B3. As much as I hate to say that. A Leopard is going to have a hard time penetrating them, whereas a 30-57mm autocannon puts a Leo 1 at risk FROM THE FRONT. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By Abakan: Pretty sure those stored Leopard 1 would take the T-72s lunchmoney and shove them in the locker just because. Equal crews? Edge to the T-72B3. As much as I hate to say that. A Leopard is going to have a hard time penetrating them, whereas a 30-57mm autocannon puts a Leo 1 at risk FROM THE FRONT. But the crews are Russians, sometimes only 2 men in the tanks.   Canadian Leopard with MEXAS |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 7:57:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THOT_Vaccine: The logic of those attacks escapes me. It's like they don't care about military objectives. They use the few effective weapons at their disposal to make everyone more angry. It's fucking stupid on top of just being evil for evil's sake. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THOT_Vaccine: Originally Posted By Easterner: Originally Posted By THOT_Vaccine:
Dinpro Twitch gamer gets sucked back into the real world quite suddenly, Yeah no shit. Listened to it myself. Something is on fire. I fully expect the bullshit rocket and cruise missile attacks to step up. They are losing at the actual front... "Let's attack more civilians!" The logic of those attacks escapes me. It's like they don't care about military objectives. They use the few effective weapons at their disposal to make everyone more angry. It's fucking stupid on top of just being evil for evil's sake. When people wonder if they would launch nukes in Ukraine.... I look to this madness and say yes. They are perfectly comfortable with terrorism. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 8:01:25 PM EDT
[#42]
 The Russian Military Is Collapsing - Ukrainian Counter Offensive Update |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 8:07:04 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lightning_P38: I had two great uncles and a grandfather who fought in Korea, both uncles were leg infantry. My father in Vietnam. The payback is way overdue. Whatever we contribute to help the Ukrainians is indeed a pittance compared to the blood the Ukrainians are spilling and the guts they have shown. When it is over if there is a debt, it will be us that owes it. Money is nothing to us, a tiny blip to our budget, weapons are nothing, we have lots and can make more. The Ukrainian men and women fighting now, are avenging ours who bled elsewhere decades ago. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lightning_P38: Originally Posted By Capta: You're right and it is. My stepdad's dad fought in Korea and my dad fought in Vietnam. Both lived. Payback is 50 years overdue. That said, Ukraine is doing both us and Europe (particularly Europe) a massive service. They're paying the blood toll, so let's not get into "you owe us." Regardless of payback, this is without question the best thing the US has done since the end of WWII. Not only is it right from a national interest perspective, it's right from a moral perspective. I have some qualms here and there about how we're going about it, but I believe I understand the method and I can't argue with it. Ukraine and Europe will be safe and free, and a strategic rival will be removed from the board at a bargain price. I do truly feel sad for Russians who did not deserve this, all the families that lost sons, but handle your shit at home, people. You allowed this. Now handle it, and don't make that mistake again. Whatever we contribute to help the Ukrainians is indeed a pittance compared to the blood the Ukrainians are spilling and the guts they have shown. When it is over if there is a debt, it will be us that owes it. Money is nothing to us, a tiny blip to our budget, weapons are nothing, we have lots and can make more. The Ukrainian men and women fighting now, are avenging ours who bled elsewhere decades ago. I agree, when this is over Ukraine deserves the full Marshall plan |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2022 8:07:08 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: Indeed. I never quite grasped how so many here didn't grasp the scale of the annual US/NATO defence budget and the amount that over the years was needed to counter Russia in their great being a asshole project. All versus the amount that was donated to Ukraine who were motivated in a liberty or death battle to neuter Russian conventional forces. I consider it pennies on the dollar and that's even not taking in to account lost of stuf as due for replacement anyway and genarated US arms sales providing employment for Americans. Had the cold war went hot we would have been fighting the ukranians. Let that sink in |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 8:10:42 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 9/10/2022 8:11:25 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By toaster: I keep seeing this thing on twitter. Wtf is it? It looks tasty. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/11545/tasty_JPG-2521221.JPG Georgian pastry called hachapori they come in many flavors, yes I ate them whenever in town ms or cities in Ukraine. Cost about 1$ depending |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 8:15:08 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rgkeller: 'Their leadership sucks. Their equipment sucks. Their soldiers suck. Their communication sucks. Their soldiers suck. Their tactics sucks. And their doctrine sucks. Yeah, that about covers it for the suckey-ness. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 8:15:25 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stgdz: Had the cold war went hot we would have been fighting the ukranians. Let that sink in Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stgdz: Originally Posted By iggy1337: Indeed. I never quite grasped how so many here didn't grasp the scale of the annual US/NATO defence budget and the amount that over the years was needed to counter Russia in their great being a asshole project. All versus the amount that was donated to Ukraine who were motivated in a liberty or death battle to neuter Russian conventional forces. I consider it pennies on the dollar and that's even not taking in to account lost of stuf as due for replacement anyway and genarated US arms sales providing employment for Americans. Had the cold war went hot we would have been fighting the ukranians. Let that sink in Even after decades of Soviet rule, and abuse, Ukrainians kept their identity, and retook their nation as soon as they could. Yes, if we went to war with the USSR, it would have included part of Soviet controlled Ukraine, but Russia, Moscow, that was our cold war enemy. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 8:18:19 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easterner: When people wonder if they would launch nukes in Ukraine.... I look to this madness and say yes. They are perfectly comfortable with terrorism. They're running out of cards to play, and they don't seem to be considering the ides that they can just go home. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 8:19:34 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow: Ukraine would have been fucked if not for the US. I consider it Korea and Vietnam payback time. I’m not sure of that, if 30,000 talibans could evade us for 20 years us, a couple 100 thousand motivated gorillas would have been hell for Russia. Never mind the poles and others would still have given enough to create havoc. A lot of Ukrainians would have died though. A lot. |
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