User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 5:18:05 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Ukraine doesn’t need to blockade Sevastopol. They need to take or bypass Kherson, then drive far enough into Crimea to level Sevastopol with 155s, They can practically hit it with MLRS from where they are. At closest current approach, still to the west of Kherson, Ukrainian forces are about 300km from Sevastopol. An MLRS ATACMS might could get the job done, and it sure would be nice to rain some down on the old Black Sea Fleet, but FJB isn't sending Ukraine any of those. To get within the 80km or so range of the missiles they *are* supposed to be getting, of Sevastopol, Ukraine would have drive halfway into Crimea. Ukraine would need to be on the outskirts of Yevpatoria, or just northeast of Simferopol - about 170km past Kherson (by air). |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 5:33:00 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: That’s a key take-away for any rational analysis about the “why” of this war, and for an endgame. I think a lot of political players people have been terribly slow to grasp that, and it’s why it is now starting to be articulated as a war aim. I think that’s why we are now hearing it stated directly, by Macron for example. It could also be intended to ramp up internal pressure on Putin by signaling that the west is ready to support Ukraine in going for the throat. The loss of Crimea would be a calamity that Putin could not politically survive, on top of other calamities like Finland and Sweden joining NATO. There are also signs that Europe is at last waking up to the reality that Putin’s decision-making isn’t going to be influenced by political or economic pressure. As if there wasn’t already a mountain of evidence to prove that. I’ve also seen an article that alleges the French government has asked their defense industry to move to a “wartime production” footing, so maybe more concrete steps are at hand. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 5:58:32 AM EDT
[#3]
 Attached FileJust posted within the last hour. Glad to see more activity in the different categories. Слава Україні 💙💛 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 6:13:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#4]
The counter-offensive in the Kherson region returned Soldatskoye, Pravdino and Aleksandrovka under control.
Another apprehension of a collaborator/spy by UA SBU SBU detained a Russian agent who was investigating the positions of the Armed Forces in Sumy region, near the border with Russia Counterintelligence of the Security Service exposed the agent of the special services of the Russian Federation for conducting intelligence and sabotage activities. During the special operation, a resident of Sumy was detained for passing information to the enemy about the deployment, armament and movement of UAF units in the border areas. It has been established that the traitor was recruited by a representative of the Russian special services during the full-scale aggression of the Russian Federation against our state. At the request of the invaders, the agent carried out photo and video recording of the location of defense facilities and the movement of Ukrainian military equipment. The attacker forwarded the received materials to the curator through closed electronic communication channels. During the searches, law enforcement officers found computers and mobile devices with evidence of criminal activity. The issue of informing him of suspicion of treason committed under martial law is currently being resolved. The pre-trial investigation is ongoing. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 6:26:36 AM EDT
[#5]
|
|
|
|
CO, USA
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 6:28:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CharlieR]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: … Ukraine holding a position of strength in Crimea is literally the only thing that will force Russia to the table. I disagree with that. Putin has to be convinced the Russian Army cant get it done. They have to be attrited to the point that they run a couple of offensives and fail at them all. If Putin has 2000 tanks, manned trained equipped, and loses Crimea, the war goes on. If Putin has nothing left and offensive after offensive fails, he negotiates. This isn't capture the flag. There is NO piece of ground that will stop the war. Realistically, I think it isn't the stuff, its the operators. Kill these crews with their gear, more gear and conscripts perform infinitely worse. Given the way this has been going, what forces Putin to the table is killing his artillerymen. Everything else is secondary. There was a New York City Cop who said if you're in a wrestling match with a man with a gun, doesn't matter how many times you get hit in the face...take away the gun. That's all that matters. The center of gravity of this war are the Russian artillerymen. The weapons that kill them is what the Ukrainians have needed since day 1. The refusal of the blind men in this administration to see that is really breathtaking. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 6:37:08 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: I disagree with that. Putin has to be convinced the Russian Army cant get it done. They have to be attrited to the point that they run a couple of offensives and fail at them all. If Putin has 2000 tanks, manned trained equipped, and loses Crimea, the war goes on. If Putin has nothing left and offensive after offensive fails, he negotiates. This isn't capture the flag. There is NO piece of ground that will stop the war. Realistically, I think it isn't the stuff, its the operators. Kill these crews with their gear, more gear and conscripts perform infinitely worse. Given the way this has been going, what forces Putin to the table is killing his artillerymen. Everything else is secondary. There was a New York City Cop who said if you're in a wrestling match with a man with a gun, doesn't matter how many times you get hit in the face...take away the gun. That's all that matters. The center of gravity of this war are the Russian artillerymen. The weapons that kill them is what the Ukrainians have needed since day 1. The refusal of the blind men in this administration to see that is really breathtaking. https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3525893-biden-told-austin-blinken-to-tone-down-remarks-supporting-ukraine-report/amp/ |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 6:40:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SoCalExile]
[#8]
In Kyiv, Macron confirmed Scholz's claim that France & Germany won't send tanks and planes to Ukraine. "This is an almost official position of NATO. We'll help Ukraine defend itself, but we aren't going to war with Russia, so certain weapons, such as planes or tanks, were agreed to not be supplied."
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 6:41:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunslinger808:
Only slightly less shitty video.
The Armed Forces of Ukraine hit the tug of the Russian Black Sea Fleet "Vasily Bekh". It was equipped with the TOR anti-aircraft missile system and was located next to Zmiin. The head of the Odessa OVA, Maksym Marchenko, stated that he had been hit by Harpoon missiles
Russian navy affiliated TG confirms  Good thread on the location.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 6:53:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CarmelBytheSea]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975:
In Kyiv, Macron confirmed Scholz's claim that France & Germany won't send tanks and planes to Ukraine. "This is an almost official position of NATO. We'll help Ukraine defend itself, but we aren't going to war with Russia, so certain weapons, such as planes or tanks, were agreed to not be supplied."
Is that the reasoning Germany sells to China? Since Putin and Xi Jingpinh are bffs?  Attached Filehttps://amp.dw.com/en/german-engine-technology-found-in-chinese-warships-report/a-59740301 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 6:54:14 AM EDT
[#11]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 6:54:41 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975:
In Kyiv, Macron confirmed Scholz's claim that France & Germany won't send tanks and planes to Ukraine. "This is an almost official position of NATO. We'll help Ukraine defend itself, but we aren't going to war with Russia, so certain weapons, such as planes or tanks, were agreed to not be supplied."
https://www.euronews.com/amp/2019/03/11/seven-european-countries-make-the-top-10-of-world-s-major-arms-exporters  Attached File |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 7:03:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#13]
 Near that ammo depot hit yesterday. Another town destroyed.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 7:09:53 AM EDT
[#14]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 7:12:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CarmelBytheSea]
[#15]
|
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 7:14:07 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Birddog15: Yup, I wonder what changed their tune? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Birddog15: Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: I was worried that the German, French and Italian leaders meeting with Zelensky in Kyiv was going to end up being a bad thing. My fear was they went there to talk Zelensky into some sort of peace deal. Now we're hearing France wants Ukraine to retake Crimea! Something has definitely changed. I now feel like we are about to see Ukraine getting much greater support and far more heavy weapons. Yup, I wonder what changed their tune? If you start your negotiations giving your adversary what is in play and should be still on the table, you've already lost half the battle. Stating right up front that Crimea is probably not achievable is handing the territory to Russia. You've lost your leverage. Bluntly, it makes me question the motives of anyone who suggests Crimea isn't a an option for Ukraine. You may decide at some point not to fight for it, but no reason to tell the Russians that at the current time. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 7:14:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#17]
Much longer version of earlier video showing American and Canadian foreign legion fighting out of an encirclement.
Building blown up in Mykolaiv for no readily apparent reason. Morning arrival of 'Caliber' in Mykolaiv
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 7:33:09 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Much longer version of earlier video showing American and Canadian foreign legion fighting out of an encirclement.
Building blown up in Mykolaiv for no readily apparent reason. Morning arrival of 'Caliber' in Mykolaiv
Some sketchy times crossing that blasted open stairway at the end of that video! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 7:38:40 AM EDT
[#19]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 7:52:09 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: Looks like Ukraine nailed at least one Russian artillery position, https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/0C2C4CFA-0CA1-4C62-8744-ABDADC0B25E1_jpe-2420945.JPG I’m thinking at this point that casualty counts for Russia are not meaningful. That number’s only tenuous grasp on reality was seemingly decent counts as UA units overran RU units. Now that there’s so much artillery and everything’s so static, they’re only able to confirm a tiny number where the actual number is likely an order of magnitude higher. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 7:53:31 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Only slightly less shitty video.
The Armed Forces of Ukraine hit the tug of the Russian Black Sea Fleet "Vasily Bekh". It was equipped with the TOR anti-aircraft missile system and was located next to Zmiin. The head of the Odessa OVA, Maksym Marchenko, stated that he had been hit by Harpoon missiles
Russian navy affiliated TG confirms https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVb7iJrXEAEjGyZ?format=jpg&name=large Good thread on the location.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVb-RC8X0AAp92g?format=jpg&name=medium |
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 8:32:12 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975:
In Kyiv, Macron confirmed Scholz's claim that France & Germany won't send tanks and planes to Ukraine. "This is an almost official position of NATO. We'll help Ukraine defend itself, but we aren't going to war with Russia, so certain weapons, such as planes or tanks, were agreed to not be supplied."
Fuck Germany and France. Once this is all over and settled, maybe Ukraine, Poland, etc can negotiate with Russia on a corridor through there territory leading to germany for the next round. Has any country ever had a more consistently shitty leadership than those two? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 8:48:25 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Fuck Germany and France. Once this is all over and settled, maybe Ukraine, Poland, etc can negotiate with Russia on a corridor through there territory leading to germany for the next round. Has any country ever had a more consistently shitty leadership than those two? Yeah, they suck. But at least for now, they aren't getting in the way. With Germany and France, that alone is a win. I never really expected Germany or France to provide Ukraine with tanks. In truth, they don't have enough modern tanks in service to be able to do so even if they wanted to. But if they can send some artillery, then great. That is needed more than tanks right now. The German PzH-2000 and French CAESAR are some excellent self-propelled guns. Even in smaller quantities, these are the kinds of weapons that can make a big difference for Ukraine. The fact that France is moving to a war time production footing is indicative of further support coming. If France does nothing more than keep the CAESARS and 155 rounds coming, that will still be a terrific contribution. The other stuff Ukraine needs can be sourced from elsewhere. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 8:48:29 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Near that ammo depot hit yesterday. Another town destroyed.
That's going to keep the EOD guys busy for a couple days. |
|
|
|
NV, USA
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 9:13:59 AM EDT
[#25]
Excellent combat footage from the Foreign Legion, using what looks to be Bren 2's?
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/ve8tka/battles_for_severodonetsk_foreign_legion/ |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 9:25:31 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Only slightly less shitty video.
The Armed Forces of Ukraine hit the tug of the Russian Black Sea Fleet "Vasily Bekh". It was equipped with the TOR anti-aircraft missile system and was located next to Zmiin. The head of the Odessa OVA, Maksym Marchenko, stated that he had been hit by Harpoon missiles
Russian navy affiliated TG confirms https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVb7iJrXEAEjGyZ?format=jpg&name=large Good thread on the location.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVb-RC8X0AAp92g?format=jpg&name=medium Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Originally Posted By Gunslinger808:
Only slightly less shitty video.
The Armed Forces of Ukraine hit the tug of the Russian Black Sea Fleet "Vasily Bekh". It was equipped with the TOR anti-aircraft missile system and was located next to Zmiin. The head of the Odessa OVA, Maksym Marchenko, stated that he had been hit by Harpoon missiles
Russian navy affiliated TG confirms https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVb7iJrXEAEjGyZ?format=jpg&name=large Good thread on the location.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVb-RC8X0AAp92g?format=jpg&name=medium I got curious when I saw the video and wondered if the weapon was actually a sea skimming anti ship missile. Certainly looks the part.  RGM-84 Harpoon Anti-Ship Missiles |
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 9:30:48 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Yeah, they suck. But at least for now, they aren't getting in the way. With Germany and France, that alone is a win. I never really expected Germany or France to provide Ukraine with tanks. In truth, they don't have enough modern tanks in service to be able to do so even if they wanted to. But if they can send some artillery, then great. That is needed more than tanks right now. The German PzH-2000 and French CAESAR are some excellent self-propelled guns. Even in smaller quantities, these are the kinds of weapons that can make a big difference for Ukraine. The fact that France is moving to a war time production footing is indicative of further support coming. If France does nothing more than keep the CAESARS and 155 rounds coming, that will still be a terrific contribution. The other stuff Ukraine needs can be sourced from elsewhere. Yes. You are correct. Since France .vs Germany shenanigans formed the 20th century, it would be nice if they dont fuck up the 21st century and at best, sit it out. Hopefully E. Europe (to include Ukraine) will become the economic and manufacturing centers while France and Germany are relegated to tourists and Syrian lgbtq festivals. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 9:32:57 AM EDT
[#28]
Southern Ukrainian offensive footage from Ukrainian National Guard. Drone footage of ammo depot and vehicles hit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/veb9it/video_from_the_ukrainian_national_guard_shows/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 9:34:15 AM EDT
[#29]
Ukrainian SOF using drone corrected artillery to hit Russian troops running from house to house.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/veb6mw/ukrainian_sof_correct_artillery_fire_targeting/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 9:35:38 AM EDT
[#30]
New Ukrainian technical vehicle with S-8 rocket pod firing.
 https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/vea5x9/footage_of_an_ukrainian_truck_with_an_s8_rocket/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 |
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 9:36:15 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: I got curious when I saw the video and wondered if the weapon was actually a sea skimming anti ship missile. Certainly looks the part.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxpwIsZCgtMIt's hard to know. How does the Neptune approach? Even if UA announces what they used, it may not be true. Even if 20 Russian ships are hit by Harpoons, they will probably claim it was a Neptune just for political reasons. Maybe. I'm sure experts know exactly what it was just by watching the vid. I also bet the targeting info came from...elsewhere... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 9:38:09 AM EDT
[#32]
Drone dropped grenade bounces off hood of Russian vehicle before exploding by the engine.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/ve7pdn/successful_hit_of_a_hand_grenade_thrown_from_an/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 9:38:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: It's hard to know. How does the Neptune approach? Even if UA announces what they used, it may not be true. Even if 20 Russian ships are hit by Harpoons, they will probably claim it was a Neptune just for political reasons. Maybe. I'm sure experts know exactly what it was just by watching the vid. I also bet the targeting info came from...elsewhere... Neptune approaches same as Harpoon, about the same speed too. |
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 9:42:25 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: New Ukrainian technical vehicle with S-8 rocket pod firing. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/vea5x9/footage_of_an_ukrainian_truck_with_an_s8_rocket/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 That looks slightly less retarded than the Russian helo rocket lob technique. Probably would work better in a direct attack type mode assuming someone could drag/pull it close enough to RU positions. Maybe park it across the street from some RU HQ and let it rip. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 9:42:33 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Wonder why they sent Neptunes at that ship? Maybe they got plenty of missile supplies so send it if in range? High probability of success target for first field use? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By Prime: Only slightly less shitty video.
The Armed Forces of Ukraine hit the tug of the Russian Black Sea Fleet "Vasily Bekh". It was equipped with the TOR anti-aircraft missile system and was located next to Zmiin. The head of the Odessa OVA, Maksym Marchenko, stated that he had been hit by Harpoon missiles
Russian navy affiliated TG confirms https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVb7iJrXEAEjGyZ?format=jpg&name=large Good thread on the location.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVb-RC8X0AAp92g?format=jpg&name=medium Hey Tugboats are the cornerstone of Rusian navy doctrine Dunno how good the Harpoons they are getting are vs their home grown Neptunes. Dutch.gov yesterday said they were giving Ukraine Harpoons |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 9:48:46 AM EDT
[#36]
Ukrainians firing a 9K111 atgm at Russian positions, notice the back blast of this thing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/ve5wq6/ukrainian_forces_fire_a_9k111_atgm_at_russian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 9:57:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: Hey Tugboats are the cornerstone of Rusian navy doctrine Dunno how good the Harpoons they are getting are vs their home grown Neptunes. Dutch.gov yesterday said they were giving Ukraine Harpoons Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By Prime: Only slightly less shitty video.
The Armed Forces of Ukraine hit the tug of the Russian Black Sea Fleet "Vasily Bekh". It was equipped with the TOR anti-aircraft missile system and was located next to Zmiin. The head of the Odessa OVA, Maksym Marchenko, stated that he had been hit by Harpoon missiles
Russian navy affiliated TG confirms https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVb7iJrXEAEjGyZ?format=jpg&name=large Good thread on the location.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVb-RC8X0AAp92g?format=jpg&name=medium Hey Tugboats are the cornerstone of Rusian navy doctrine Dunno how good the Harpoons they are getting are vs their home grown Neptunes. Dutch.gov yesterday said they were giving Ukraine Harpoons I would be interested to know which version of the Harpoons Ukraine is getting, there are quite a few versions with some interesting terminal attack profiles and re-attack capabilities, plus scene image comparison. I do know the Neptunes have a unique capability to passively home on radar emissions. Not very useful against a tugboat, sort of a waste which is why I'm leaning for this to be a Harpoon attack. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 10:04:43 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Yeah, they suck. But at least for now, they aren't getting in the way. With Germany and France, that alone is a win. I never really expected Germany or France to provide Ukraine with tanks. In truth, they don't have enough modern tanks in service to be able to do so even if they wanted to. But if they can send some artillery, then great. That is needed more than tanks right now. The German PzH-2000 and French CAESAR are some excellent self-propelled guns. Even in smaller quantities, these are the kinds of weapons that can make a big difference for Ukraine. The fact that France is moving to a war time production footing is indicative of further support coming. If France does nothing more than keep the CAESARS and 155 rounds coming, that will still be a terrific contribution. The other stuff Ukraine needs can be sourced from elsewhere. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Fuck Germany and France. Once this is all over and settled, maybe Ukraine, Poland, etc can negotiate with Russia on a corridor through there territory leading to germany for the next round. Has any country ever had a more consistently shitty leadership than those two? Yeah, they suck. But at least for now, they aren't getting in the way. With Germany and France, that alone is a win. I never really expected Germany or France to provide Ukraine with tanks. In truth, they don't have enough modern tanks in service to be able to do so even if they wanted to. But if they can send some artillery, then great. That is needed more than tanks right now. The German PzH-2000 and French CAESAR are some excellent self-propelled guns. Even in smaller quantities, these are the kinds of weapons that can make a big difference for Ukraine. The fact that France is moving to a war time production footing is indicative of further support coming. If France does nothing more than keep the CAESARS and 155 rounds coming, that will still be a terrific contribution. The other stuff Ukraine needs can be sourced from elsewhere. All the systems are extremely long lead time pieces of gear. If they’re not already in production getting re-delivered to someone items that start construction today may take one to two years in a bit to deliver. In the military acquisitions world the rule thumb is 18 to 24 months from contract to delivery of initial capability. It’s kind of myth that there is a ramped up production for a wartime footing for many weapons that is any faster than it would be in peacetime |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 10:13:28 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975:
In Kyiv, Macron confirmed Scholz's claim that France & Germany won't send tanks and planes to Ukraine. "This is an almost official position of NATO. We'll help Ukraine defend itself, but we aren't going to war with Russia, so certain weapons, such as planes or tanks, were agreed to not be supplied."
So France is literally saying they want Ukraine to take back Crimea while at the same time saying they will not give Ukraine the weapons to do it. Perfect. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 10:13:57 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: Hey Tugboats are the cornerstone of Rusian navy doctrine Dunno how good the Harpoons they are getting are vs their home grown Neptunes. Dutch.gov yesterday said they were giving Ukraine Harpoons Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By Prime: Only slightly less shitty video.
The Armed Forces of Ukraine hit the tug of the Russian Black Sea Fleet "Vasily Bekh". It was equipped with the TOR anti-aircraft missile system and was located next to Zmiin. The head of the Odessa OVA, Maksym Marchenko, stated that he had been hit by Harpoon missiles
Russian navy affiliated TG confirms https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVb7iJrXEAEjGyZ?format=jpg&name=large Good thread on the location.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVb-RC8X0AAp92g?format=jpg&name=medium Hey Tugboats are the cornerstone of Rusian navy doctrine Dunno how good the Harpoons they are getting are vs their home grown Neptunes. Dutch.gov yesterday said they were giving Ukraine Harpoons  Attached File
|
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 10:15:46 AM EDT
[#41]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 10:26:29 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Everyone WAS harmed during the making of this video.  Greatest hits with Queen music. Nice editing work.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 10:30:46 AM EDT
[#43]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 10:33:55 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: Arfcom don't think training be like it but it do. Not all systems are point and pull trigger particularly as the west moves to donating complex systems. After the political choice was made to donate it took near a month to before the the Ukrainian trainers were up to speed on the donated mobile artillery systems. Then you have to factor in that NL was training trainers so it wil also take time for them to train units. Remember it's not like the US giving the UK some stuff as there are language and alphabet barriers as wel. Thank you, concur. To make a crappy analogy: When you're trying to drive off (or kill) the bear, even one chained to a post (Crimea) as this one is, you never attack with just one dog. You'll lose a lot fewer dogs if you just drive off the bear and let it leave on its own. Getting the post back and losing as few dogs or anything else in the process was the objective, not necessarily killing the bear. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 10:50:27 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Fuck Germany and France. Once this is all over and settled, maybe Ukraine, Poland, etc can negotiate with Russia on a corridor through there territory leading to germany for the next round. Has any country ever had a more consistently shitty leadership than those two? can't say I'm surprised. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 10:53:21 AM EDT
[#46]
Without tugboats, Russia's only aircraft carrier would be dead in the water.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 11:01:37 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3525893-biden-told-austin-blinken-to-tone-down-remarks-supporting-ukraine-report/amp/ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Originally Posted By CharlieR: I disagree with that. Putin has to be convinced the Russian Army cant get it done. They have to be attrited to the point that they run a couple of offensives and fail at them all. If Putin has 2000 tanks, manned trained equipped, and loses Crimea, the war goes on. If Putin has nothing left and offensive after offensive fails, he negotiates. This isn't capture the flag. There is NO piece of ground that will stop the war. Realistically, I think it isn't the stuff, its the operators. Kill these crews with their gear, more gear and conscripts perform infinitely worse. Given the way this has been going, what forces Putin to the table is killing his artillerymen. Everything else is secondary. There was a New York City Cop who said if you're in a wrestling match with a man with a gun, doesn't matter how many times you get hit in the face...take away the gun. That's all that matters. The center of gravity of this war are the Russian artillerymen. The weapons that kill them is what the Ukrainians have needed since day 1. The refusal of the blind men in this administration to see that is really breathtaking. https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3525893-biden-told-austin-blinken-to-tone-down-remarks-supporting-ukraine-report/amp/ I think CharlieR is correct that it is most difficult for Russia to quickly reconstitute skilled toops (C3, EW/intel/drone/targeting people, artillery), then move logistics (ammo dumps), then weapons/equipment (artillery systems). Piecing together the reports it seems Ukraine is trying to do this with the limited capabilites they currently have. I'm not sure how much of an issue the L49 and L54 are of the 2A36 and 2A65 vs our L39 M777 - standard rounds the Russian tubes outrange us at least from the online data I see, but there are RAP shells, etc. so I'm not sure how big a factor that is on counter-battery. I'm sure MLRS would put them in a much better situation. I wonder how many pieces Russia has committed to this fight and approximately number of rounds a day that are expending. Wiki lists the Russian army total as: Towed: 2A36 (L49) 141 active (1100 reserve); 2A65 Msta-B (L54) 250 active (600 reserve) Self-Propelled: 2S3 (L28) 800 active (1000 reserve); 2S19 Msta-S (L47) 935 active; 2S5 Giatsint-S (L52 - it is an open gun, no turret) 114 active (850 reserve) I saw the same report yesterday about how Biden wanted Austin and Blinken to tone down their remarks. I'm really not sure what to make of this and why it is being floated now. Biden made the statement in Poland that Putin "cannot remain in power" on March 26 (which was then walked back somewhat by the whitehouse). It was not until April 25th that Austin (while in Kyiv) remarked "We want to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can’t do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine". I'm not sure I see how the later goes further than the former (I suppose there is the perception that we are not trying to target the Russians as a country/population - which we are not but maybe there is concern about that perception). It seems odd this was floated the same day Macron is more willing to militarily support Ukraine. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 11:02:35 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: I disagree with that. Putin has to be convinced the Russian Army cant get it done. They have to be attrited to the point that they run a couple of offensives and fail at them all. If Putin has 2000 tanks, manned trained equipped, and loses Crimea, the war goes on. If Putin has nothing left and offensive after offensive fails, he negotiates. This isn't capture the flag. There is NO piece of ground that will stop the war. Realistically, I think it isn't the stuff, its the operators. Kill these crews with their gear, more gear and conscripts perform infinitely worse. Given the way this has been going, what forces Putin to the table is killing his artillerymen. Everything else is secondary. There was a New York City Cop who said if you're in a wrestling match with a man with a gun, doesn't matter how many times you get hit in the face...take away the gun. That's all that matters. The center of gravity of this war are the Russian artillerymen. The weapons that kill them is what the Ukrainians have needed since day 1. The refusal of the blind men in this administration to see that is really breathtaking. That's a great analogy, I like it even better than my silly bear one. You may be right about their CoG; artillery seems to be the only weapon they can use effectively. I was sort of hoping that the Switchblade 600s would help the Ukrainians to destroy tubes if not the crews at the same time, but it's apparently a lot more difficult to find them. My suspicion is that it isn't for a lack of shooters, but a relative lack of sensors (ability to recon 18-24km behind the front line). Every time I see these nice drone clips over Ru artillery positions, I wonder how they managed to get those clips at all, and how old they are, because being near enough to get that footage is butt-pucker factor level 10,000. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 11:05:33 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3525893-biden-told-austin-blinken-to-tone-down-remarks-supporting-ukraine-report/amp/ Joe Biden's only skills and best instincts are for self-enrichment. He has proven that over his decades of "public service". It's trite by this point but he and his crackhead son are the poster children for that quadrant of the whole "weak men create hard times" meme.  |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2022 11:06:01 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: Looks like Ukraine nailed at least one Russian artillery position, https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/0C2C4CFA-0CA1-4C62-8744-ABDADC0B25E1_jpe-2420945.JPG The day before was actually a little better but I would like to see the artillery and multiple rocket losses consistently double digit for multiple days (that will be an indication something has changed). That said it is definitely better than the little/no losses reported the in the prior several days when we were also hearing how the Russians were shelling the Ukraines so hard. |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File
Attached File
Attached File
