User Panel
User Panel
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USA
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:10:14 AM EDT
The economy is GREAT! The stock market just hit 40000! Unemployment is low at 3.9%!
These IT idiots wonder why they cant find a job - two words: H1B, offshoring. There are easily over a million of them here between the H1B themselves and their spouses. On top of this they keep sending the jobs overseas. Do the math. MORONS I guess "learn to code" isnt working. =============== https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/15/laid-off-techies-struggle-to-find-jobs-with-cuts-at-highest-since-2001.html *With tech layoffs at their highest since the 2001 dot-com crash, the job hunt is getting harder and many in the industry are being forced to settle for pay cuts if they can find a new gig at all. Her sentiment is reflected in the numbers. Since the start of the year, more than 50,000 workers have been laid off from over 200 tech companies, according to tracking website Layoffs.fyi. It’s a continuation of the predominant theme of 2023, when more than 260,000 workers across nearly 1,200 tech companies lost their jobs. Alphabet, Amazon, Meta and Microsoft have all taken part in the downsizing this year, along with eBay, Unity Software, SAP and Cisco. Wall Street has largely cheered on the cost-cutting, sending many tech stocks to record highs on optimism that spending discipline coupled with efficiency gains from artificial intelligence will lead to rising profits. PayPal announced in January that it was eliminating 9% of its workforce, or about 2,500 jobs. For the tens of thousands of people in Croisant’s position, the path toward reemployment is daunting. All told, 2023 was the second-biggest year of cuts on record in the technology sector, behind only the dot-com crash in 2001, according to outplacement firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas. Not since the spectacular flameouts of Pets.com, eToys and Webvan have so many tech workers lost their jobs in such a short period of time. Last month’s job cut count was the highest of any February since 2009, when the financial crisis forced companies into cash preservation mode. *Since the start of the year, more than 50,000 positions have been slashed at over 200 tech companies, according to tracking website Layoffs.fyi. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:16:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: crownvic96]
[#1]
I feel like most of those companies WAAAYYY overhired post covid. I know we all love to shit on biden but a lot of those industries are fairly cyclical and combine that with being publicly traded they always love to dump off a lot of overhead (non direct billable) employees prior to a quarterly/yearly earnings to make those numbers look *that* much better then start rehiring when they get too backlogged again.
Also, I think a lot of the hiring the last few years was to just pickup talent so the other guy didn't have it either. Things like AI/ML and ZeroTrust have been the new sexiness so no one wants the other guy to have the cool kids. My company has been hiring "AI" folks like crazy and we don't even have an AI solution nor can we even fucking say what/where/how/why we're even doing in that market space lol. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:16:59 AM EDT
[#2]
It's hard to outsource my job as a finish carpenter..
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:18:30 AM EDT
[#3]
OP seems upset with the IT people getting laid off.
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VUT
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:18:46 AM EDT
[#4]
Pfft, they just need to learn to code. Properly.
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:21:00 AM EDT
[#5]
When reality finally hits the work from home crowd and they realize that work from home is not limited to the United States.
They'll be begging to go back to their commute and a nine to five job at the office. |
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THA
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:22:25 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fttam: OP seems upset with the IT people getting laid off. Probably makes 40k a year doing manual labor, while many are making six figures from home. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:22:25 AM EDT
[#7]
I notice in every one of these articles they mention the obligatory poor H1B that has to go back if they dont find a job.
=============== Amit Mittal has been on both sides of the employment market — previously as a hiring manager and now as a job seeker. In November, Mittal was laid off from AI lending company Upstart , where he worked as a software engineering manager, often overseeing interviews. Mittal said he witnessed the hiring process become “a lot more demanding” as layoffs surged. “There was a lot more pressure on us to basically raise the bar higher and higher,” he said. “Somebody with a four-year experience in the past would have had a pretty good chance at getting a good job. But now they’re competing against people who have six, seven, eight years of experience for the same position.” Mittal, who’s from India and has lived in the Chicago area since 2007, has lately been subject to a very different kind of pressure. Under his H-1B visa, Mittal had only 60 days from the official end of his employment to find a new job in the tech industry in order to stay in the country. “If for four months, I have to pay my bills by driving an Uber or working at McDonald’s flipping burgers, that’s fine,” he said. “But that mechanism doesn’t exist for me.” Mittal has now successfully petitioned to obtain a separate B-2 tourist visa, giving him an extra six months to find new employment. It wasn’t a cheap effort, though. He estimated he spent around $8,000 on legal and administrative costs tied to his submission. All the while, Mittal said he’s applied for about 110 jobs to no avail. He attributed the dearth of success to employers’ reluctance or inability to sponsor visa holders. “It seems like the possibilities are pretty slim right now, even though I see hundreds of postings every single day,” Mittal said. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:23:01 AM EDT
[#8]
Need to learn to mine nut coal.
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THA
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:23:03 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wagonwheel1: When reality finally hits the work from home crowd and they realize that work from home is not limited to the United States. They'll be begging to go back to their commute and a nine to five job at the office. You do realize outsourcing has been cyclic with the industry for decades now, right? |
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USA
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:24:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: mark9000]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wagonwheel1: When reality finally hits the work from home crowd and they realize that work from home is not limited to the United States. They'll be begging to go back to their commute and a nine to five job at the office. This has been true for several decades - high speed fiber allowed companies to outsource job overseas for decades already. After the year 2000 thousands of IT jobs that were in the US were sent overseas via offshoring. I saw whole departments in major companies laid off, had to train their replacements from India. Than they went back to India. The reason you dont hear about it so much is that most of the big outsourcing was done years ago. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:24:26 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Subnetwork: Probably makes 40k a year doing manual labor, while many are making six figures from home. *Were |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:25:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AA717driver]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mark9000: I notice in every one of these articles they mention the obligatory poor H1B that has to go back if they dont find a job. =============== Amit Mittal has been on both sides of the employment market — previously as a hiring manager and now as a job seeker. In November, Mittal was laid off from AI lending company Upstart , where he worked as a software engineering manager, often overseeing interviews. Mittal said he witnessed the hiring process become “a lot more demanding” as layoffs surged. “There was a lot more pressure on us to basically raise the bar higher and higher,” he said. “Somebody with a four-year experience in the past would have had a pretty good chance at getting a good job. But now they’re competing against people who have six, seven, eight years of experience for the same position.” Mittal, who’s from India and has lived in the Chicago area since 2007, has lately been subject to a very different kind of pressure. Under his H-1B visa, Mittal had only 60 days from the official end of his employment to find a new job in the tech industry in order to stay in the country. “If for four months, I have to pay my bills by driving an Uber or working at McDonald’s flipping burgers, that’s fine,” he said. “But that mechanism doesn’t exist for me.” Mittal has now successfully petitioned to obtain a separate B-2 tourist visa, giving him an extra six months to find new employment. It wasn’t a cheap effort, though. He estimated he spent around $8,000 on legal and administrative costs tied to his submission. All the while, Mittal said he’s applied for about 110 jobs to no avail. He attributed the dearth of success to employers’ reluctance or inability to sponsor visa holders. “It seems like the possibilities are pretty slim right now, even though I see hundreds of postings every single day,” Mittal said. You gambled and lost. Bummer. Wonder if he loses sleep over the U.S. citizens who couldn’t get hired because he undercut them? |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:25:47 AM EDT
[#13]
It’s working fine for me.
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:25:56 AM EDT
[#14]
hell we can't find enough to hire here. also depends on what you actually do in IT. Appdev and coders yea your gonna be hurting. Supporting local infrastructure and security you wont be going anywhere.
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:26:42 AM EDT
[#15]
Many of these jobs were fluff positions.
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:26:44 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wagonwheel1: It's hard to outsource my job as a finish carpenter.. I am seriously considering going back to the construction gig. It has always been steady and a good income. It afforded me a lot of freedom that my current job does not. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:27:02 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Josh: It’s working fine for me. #MeToo |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:27:07 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Subnetwork: You do realize outsourcing has been cyclic with the industry for decades now, right? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Subnetwork: Originally Posted By wagonwheel1: When reality finally hits the work from home crowd and they realize that work from home is not limited to the United States. They'll be begging to go back to their commute and a nine to five job at the office. You do realize outsourcing has been cyclic with the industry for decades now, right? |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:27:55 AM EDT
[#19]
Good morning, Meester wegon weel. How many I halp yu ?
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USA
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:27:59 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: hell we can't find enough to hire here. also depends on what you actually do in IT. Appdev and coders yea your gonna be hurting. Supporting local infrastructure and security you wont be going anywhere. As you said it depends. Where I worked last security was offshored to India via HCL. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:28:00 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Subnetwork: Probably makes 40k a year doing manual labor, while many are making six figures from home. My guess closer to 30k, but its nice to see people being nice today. I'm at home right now, "working" 2 full time remote W2 jobs shitposting on here. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:29:03 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crownvic96: Every single fucking time tech/it/computers or anything more complicated then a shovel is mentioned in GD it is 100% getting outsourced to india and there's nothing we can do about it. Like that hasn't been happening for decades and companies are still fucking dumb enough to not learn the lessons other companies did about what you can and cannot outsource. I remember my IT friends in the 2000-2002 timeframe crunching the numbers for leadership to show they were losing money on their "cost savings initiatives" outsourcing due to how much rework was needed back in the US on things. It gets old. Very old. If offshoreing was the panacea GD makes it out to be, it would have been done already. Work keeps coming back here for a reason. But, let us not interfere with the “IT sucks you’re all gonna die” circle jerk. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:29:08 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wagonwheel1: When reality finally hits the work from home crowd and they realize that work from home is not limited to the United States. They'll be begging to go back to their commute and a nine to five job at the office. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:29:52 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLASwamp: It would seem the axiom of "if your job can be done from home, it can be done from India" is starting to ring true. The tech crowd bristles when they hear that, but it's obviously accurate. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLASwamp: Originally Posted By wagonwheel1: When reality finally hits the work from home crowd and they realize that work from home is not limited to the United States. They'll be begging to go back to their commute and a nine to five job at the office. Is it? |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:30:11 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crownvic96: I feel like most of those companies WAAAYYY overhired post covid. I know we all love to shit on biden but a lot of those industries are fairly cyclical and combine that with being publicly traded they always love to dump off a lot of overhead (non direct billable) employees prior to a quarterly/yearly earnings to make those numbers look *that* much better then start rehiring when they get too backlogged again. Also, I think a lot of the hiring the last few years was to just pickup talent so the other guy didn't have it either. Things like AI/ML and ZeroTrust have been the new sexiness so no one wants the other guy to have the cool kids. My company has been hiring "AI" folks like crazy and we don't even have an AI solution nor can we even fucking say what/where/how/why we're even doing in that market space lol. This is correct. We have 400 open positions and we simply can't find qualified candidates. Everyone that's applying is an h1b and likely a "qa analyst". Those 50k that got laid off are the drags, the dead weight, the people you couldn't fire for whatever reason. A major national wireless company I use to work for had mandatory 10% layoffs around thanks giving. All the department managers got rid of the worthless employees. Every January, they would allow them to hire more staff. The hope was you did better with the new hire. So all in all, it's not as bad as the OP article is making it out to be, assuming you know your shit. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:30:18 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: hell we can't find enough to hire here. also depends on what you actually do in IT. Appdev and coders yea your gonna be hurting. Supporting local infrastructure and security you wont be going anywhere. Yup agree 100%. Software guys wrote themselves out of a job with the AI stuff... Plus everyone is hunkering down right now and not spending money on new capex projects. Meanwhile, me and the boys trying to keep the infrastructure running and secure are still doing our thing. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:30:53 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crownvic96: Every single fucking time tech/it/computers or anything more complicated then a shovel is mentioned in GD it is 100% getting outsourced to india and there's nothing we can do about it. Like that hasn't been happening for decades and companies are still fucking dumb enough to not learn the lessons other companies did about what you can and cannot outsource. I remember my IT friends in the 2000-2002 timeframe crunching the numbers for leadership to show they were losing money on their "cost savings initiatives" outsourcing due to how much rework was needed back in the US on things. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crownvic96: Originally Posted By Subnetwork: Originally Posted By wagonwheel1: When reality finally hits the work from home crowd and they realize that work from home is not limited to the United States. They'll be begging to go back to their commute and a nine to five job at the office. You do realize outsourcing has been cyclic with the industry for decades now, right? They learned they just dont care. The money for offshoring comes from a different section of the balance sheet. I have heard for years there are tax incentives to offshore but I have never seen anything about it. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:31:15 AM EDT
[#28]
AI will replace a lot of these jobs. It's just a matter of time.
The remaining jobs that require a person will be monitoring how the AI is performing or the results it produces. It's coming to the physical labor world also. It will just take longer. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:32:32 AM EDT
[#29]
I'll just be a moron working from home making 150k a year over here.
It's a rough life, but someone has to do it. The US Government isn't outsourcing satellite / ground station cybersecurity to an H1B so I'm pretty safe. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:33:21 AM EDT
[#30]
American techies are being laid-off, while around 250,000 aliens are imported every year via the H1B visa program.
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:34:28 AM EDT
[#31]
Why hire people for IT when I can just have AI do most of the work.
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:35:09 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PTR32Sooner: Why hire people for IT when I can just have AI do most of the work. Such as? |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:35:51 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnprocess: Is it? |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:37:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: burnprocess]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLASwamp: I don't like it any more than you do. I think it sucks. But the jobs are going somewhere. If they're not being outsourced, then where are the jobs going? Is there suddenly no need for IT workers? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLASwamp: Originally Posted By burnprocess: Is it? As stated before, a majority of these layoffs were fluff positions that looked good on paper at the time. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:38:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Paul]
[#35]
50,000 workers ... 5,603,000 workers.
Almost 0.9% turnover in 5-months. That's a bunch of doom. Pretty much everyone lost their job. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:38:09 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By manderson1911: Yup agree 100%. Software guys wrote themselves out of a job with the AI stuff... Plus everyone is hunkering down right now and not spending money on new capex projects. Meanwhile, me and the boys trying to keep the infrastructure running and secure are still doing our thing. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By manderson1911: Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: hell we can't find enough to hire here. also depends on what you actually do in IT. Appdev and coders yea your gonna be hurting. Supporting local infrastructure and security you wont be going anywhere. Yup agree 100%. Software guys wrote themselves out of a job with the AI stuff... Plus everyone is hunkering down right now and not spending money on new capex projects. Meanwhile, me and the boys trying to keep the infrastructure running and secure are still doing our thing. No, that’s absurd. Ai hasn’t taken any software engineering job. I use it every day, it’s never going to take my job. Maybe some web dev that writes crud apps all day every day, but it can’t do real software engineering. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:38:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 73RR]
[#37]
Its real and I don't blame the H1Bs
I am in IT telecom sales We are in a major IT spending slump I've seen it before in 09 and before that in 99-00. Here is the pattern I see and have seen leading up to major layoffs. 1. Business travel curtailed, only senior management travels now, everyone else nope, unless a meeting is tied to a major sale. 2. Spending on stuff like team building exercises and awards have stopped. No more company paid lunches on Fridays no employee give aways like free shirts and stupid stuff. (you may think this is stupid but its a sign that spending on that kind of stuff has stopped to save money) 3. Career advancement training has stopped no more paid courses for certifications 4. Marketing budget cut way back (no more customer appreciation golf outings, no more catered lunches to major customers.) 5. Spot layoffs here and there you hear about through the company grapevine nothing major yet but you hear about people disappearing because their jobs have been eliminated. 6. Finally either company goes bankrupt or they layoff significant portions of the staff. My company is at number 5. If you own a business and don't want to invest in in-house IT you move to the cloud, AWS, Azure and Google Cloud sales are booming. No in house servers to maintain, you just need a cloud specialist to keep the place running and plenty of overseas MSPs are willing to maintain your cloud space environment. Oh and remember this SALES is the last to lose their jobs, SALES brings in money to the business to keep it afloat. When they get rid of SALES staff the company says we are not making enough money to stay in business. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:39:36 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLASwamp: I don't like it any more than you do. I think it sucks. But the jobs are going somewhere. If they're not being outsourced, then where are the jobs going? Is there suddenly no need for IT workers? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLASwamp: Originally Posted By burnprocess: Is it? India or bust. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:40:30 AM EDT
[#39]
Coding is easy, knowing what to code is hard.
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USA
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:42:04 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Airborne11B: I'll just be a moron working from home making 150k a year over here. It's a rough life, but someone has to do it. The US Government isn't outsourcing satellite / ground station cybersecurity to an H1B so I'm pretty safe. I saw some article that some Congressman is proposing that DoD job be opened up to H1B. Never say never. Hell, they want to let illegals into the military. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:42:33 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Josh: No, that’s absurd. Ai hasn’t taken any software engineering job. I use it every day, it’s never going to take my job. Maybe some web dev that writes crud apps all day every day, but it can’t do real software engineering. Pundits are not taking into account what, exactly, goes into the engineering. It’s way more than simply slinging code. AI is powerful and getting better, but it is a long way off from replacing everyone and everything. Systems design/engineering alone could take decades. As you said if you have some dev doing grunt work in code, then yes they will probably be replaced. If you’re building from scratch, writing complex systems and algorithms to spec, or require out-of-the-box thinking, you’re quite safe. And safe for a while. The low-level guys also seem to agree that AI is struggling with embedded. These threads are always cute. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:43:03 AM EDT
[#42]
Outsourcing your IT is never a good idea.
But it " saves money " on labor. Look up Ascension Health cyber attack. I'm paper charting today because of it. It didn't happen because of outsourcing to India or the Philippines though. 
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:44:27 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLASwamp: I don't like it any more than you do. I think it sucks. But the jobs are going somewhere. If they're not being outsourced, then where are the jobs going? Is there suddenly no need for IT workers? I think it is more along the lines of some folks being brought on for specific projects that are no longer needed or a shitload of folks who don't actually do much of anything |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:45:13 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLASwamp: It would seem the axiom of "if your job can be done from home, it can be done from India" is starting to ring true. The tech crowd bristles when they hear that, but it's obviously accurate. I actually know more companies that brought these jobs back onshore recently then moving them off shore. I've worked in tech for 30 year what do you do? It's crazy the amount of envy people have towards tech workers, if you where half as smart as you think you are you would be working in tech from home too. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:45:35 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnprocess: As stated before, a majority of these layoffs were fluff positions that looked good on paper at the time. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:46:00 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wagonwheel1: It's hard to outsource my job as a finish carpenter.. We’ll just insource your replacement. Millions of them. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:46:04 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLASwamp: That's a lot of fluff positions. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLASwamp: Originally Posted By burnprocess: As stated before, a majority of these layoffs were fluff positions that looked good on paper at the time. You are correct. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:52:14 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLASwamp: I don't like it any more than you do. I think it sucks. But the jobs are going somewhere. If they're not being outsourced, then where are the jobs going? Is there suddenly no need for IT workers? Companies in tech right now are not doing larger projects, they are cutting the budget for the capital projects for the year, and they don't need the project delivery guys, project managers and such. The guys who keep the lights on, and maintain and manage things are still as busy as ever. So they are just cutting the fluff, and will rehire the project guys back once the economy picks back up which will inevitably happen because of the tech cycle. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:52:39 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mark9000: I notice in every one of these articles they mention the obligatory poor H1B that has to go back if they dont find a job. =============== Amit Mittal has been on both sides of the employment market previously as a hiring manager and now as a job seeker. In November, Mittal was laid off from AI lending company Upstart, where he worked as a software engineering manager, often overseeing interviews. Mittal said he witnessed the hiring process become "a lot more demanding" as layoffs surged. "There was a lot more pressure on us to basically raise the bar higher and higher," he said. "Somebody with a four-year experience in the past would have had a pretty good chance at getting a good job. But now they're competing against people who have six, seven, eight years of experience for the same position." Mittal, who's from India and has lived in the Chicago area since 2007, has lately been subject to a very different kind of pressure. Under his H-1B visa, Mittal had only 60 days from the official end of his employment to find a new job in the tech industry in order to stay in the country. "If for four months, I have to pay my bills by driving an Uber or working at McDonald's flipping burgers, that's fine," he said. "But that mechanism doesn't exist for me." Mittal has now successfully petitioned to obtain a separate B-2 tourist visa, giving him an extra six months to find new employment. It wasn't a cheap effort, though. He estimated he spent around $8,000 on legal and administrative costs tied to his submission. All the while, Mittal said he's applied for about 110 jobs to no avail. He attributed the dearth of success to employers' reluctance or inability to sponsor visa holders. "It seems like the possibilities are pretty slim right now, even though I see hundreds of postings every single day," Mittal said. He has a bachelor's degree from Indira Gandhi National Open University. Current enrollment is 4,000,000 students. It's a "school" that provides wallpaper "engineering" degrees. Body shops like HCL hire their graduates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indira_Gandhi_National_Open_University |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:53:42 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wagonwheel1: It's hard to outsource my job as a finish carpenter.. Would like to see Haji rebuild a fuser unit on a 6755. |
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