Tried to search but the engine doesn't allow Cat 5 as a subject.

I want to run some hardwire in a new build that is being framed.

I meet with the electrician tomorrow for initial walk through.  

What is the best cable to have him run?  

Thanks

Cat 6e will probably future-proof you slightly.

Best would be to have the builder install conduit so that you can pull different cable (or fiber) in the future as needs/technology changes.

Do this

Category 6E isn't really a thing. Just marketing jargon. Either of a Category 6 (400MHz) or Category 6A would serve you well. You'll be able to push 10Gbps to most of the devices using Cat6 - as long as you're under 180' total. If you think your runs will be beyond 180', use Cat6A.

OP what internet speed you running?    Cat5e or cat6 should square you away

Cat5E is sufficient for 99% of residential applications. Nothing wrong with spending the extra for 6 or 6A but in general it will probably be a waste bc you will never need gigabit inside the structure.

Cat6 is most common, but Cat5e is easier to work with and still get 1 GB speeds on it.

I would do conduit as well.
the biggest through put limit in my house is existing wiring.
I have rooms I can't drop or pull new lines into that are limited to 100 MB/S because of that. I have internet at around 250 and gigabit routers and switches, but my main room can't use any of it.
If I could pull new line in a conduit I would in a heartbeat.

but yeah do 6 if that isn't a choice.
Centralize it to a closet and protect the outside connectors as well if you can.

If you can do conduit do that and have all the flexibility

In my local cat6 is about $20 more a box than 5e so its pretty much a wash

You want at least CAT-6, even CAT-6A if budget allows. CAT-6e is not a real standard, so don't buy it because you have no idea what it really is. CAT-6 isn't that much more expensive than CAT-5e.

Cat5E is good for gigabit to 100m/300ft.  Cat6 gets you some more shielding/less crosstalk, and support for up to 10gig connections.  
Cat6A, you're talking diminishing returns at this point.  Unless there's a valid reason to use this stuff, and you understand why you need to use this stuff, then it's not worth it.  It's a bitch to do right, higher chance of fucking up the run during install, and you're probably better off putting fiber in if you want "MuH fUtUrEpRoOf".  

For 99+% of residential cabling, Cat5E is going to be more than enough now and for the next decade or so.  
Cat6 will "futureproof" you a little more.  Remember, you need to get the whole package in whatever category level you're using - don't mix-and-match cat5e cable with cat6 patch panels/keystones - it's all or nothing.  

If you can, get the 100% copper stuff instead of CCA.  Cu Cat5E is probably on-par performance-wise with CCA Cat6.  
I would advise pulling multiple drops anywhere you're putting a drop in.  I've found that having two drops at each panel is real nice - smart tv and a game console, don't need to put a dumb switch in there and burn another outlet... just plug the two devices into the wall.  This also gives you the option to lag drops together if you need gig+ to a specific device.  (I'll have a 2-port lag between my core switch and office router when i'm done wiring.)

More than half the shit plugged into my switch right now is 10/100.  If you need crazy bandwidth/capacity to a drop, pull fiber there instead of fucking around with cat6a/""cat6e""/cat7.  
A 4K netflix stream is only 40mbps, 100mbit link will handle several of those all day long.  

I pulled cheap Cat5E all over my condo.  Never had any issues, iperf'd all the runs to full gigabit.
Pulling Cat6 all through this house, with 5e for phones and RG6U for RF.  

Yeah, yeah, 40 years ago people didn't envision streaming videos, IP security cams etc. Same as they didn't envision the true computing power that was capable.

But for real, what can possibly require more than 1000 MB/S in a residential setting?

I stream Netflix on a 700 KB/S internet connection. You're talking about streaming 500+ Netflix devices, cameras, or other video streams to exceed the Cat5e capabilities, and that is being conservative. If OP plans to run a server room, or host some serious live gaming, yeah, go Cat6, but what can possibly exceed the capacity of cat5e?

Conduit.

Cat5e is good for 1gig. Most people won't use that much. There are 2.5gig and 5gig standards that will run over cat5e cut I don't put much stock into those technologies. 10gig will run over cat5e for short distances (30m I think). Cat6a is thicker, stiffer, and a big harder to work with. It will do 10gig but not really worth it unless you specifically need it.

If you really want to future proof your house install single mode fiber everywhere. Problem solved. Again a pain unless you specifically have a need.

If you go with conduit make sure they are all home runs. Flexible conduit is best.

Cat5E does not officially support beyond 1 Gbps. Cat6 supports 10 Gbps up to 30m. Cat6A supports 10Gbps up to the full 100m Ethernet spec.

I suggest Cat6. It's not much more expensive, and not much harder to work with. It is typically not shielded like Cat6A is. Shielding is a pain that no homeowner should ever have to deal with. It's only required in very specific circumstances, 99.999999% of which a homeowner will never experience. And if you do, a nuke probably went off and you're already dead anyways

You can run 2.5 and 5gbps on 5e.

I don’t know how big of a house you are wiring but you can get 1,000’ of cat 6 for two hundred bucks. Why anyone would use anything lesser is beyond me. Is it overkill? Yes but the cost difference is so minimal. Might even go with the 6A for about $300 for 1,000.

I guarantee you the added cost now is a hell of a lot cheaper than when in 5-10 years they come out some kind of bullshit that we don’t even know was possible and you went with cat 5 and it isn’t fast enough and you have to replace the wire.

Conduit is a great idea but would be a lot more costly. The 6A is pretty damn cheap and it will be quite some time before it is inadequate.

Twenty years ago tell me what could possibly require the speeds which are the norm now? I was a systems administrator at a university in 2001. I took care of around 100 computers in a very technical department. I think 100Mb existed but we didn’t have any. Everything was 10Mb then. What could require over 1000Mb in a home? I don’t know it probably doesn’t exist yet but I bet we will all know in ten years.

The cost difference between Cat 5 and Cat 6 is pretty much negligible; so you'd be crazy not going with the faster cable.

One interesting trivia I didn't learn until recently - Cat 5 has 4 twisted pairs (for 8 wires total), but all this time, only actually used two of the 4 pairs (i.e only 4 of the wires).  This is why POE is possible, because they can just run the Power Over Ethernet through the other 4 unused wires in a Cat 5 cable.  

Cat 6 is for the most part a Cat 5 cable, but uses all 4 pairs, rather than just two, and I think has a grounding/shielding in there, as well.  Cat 7 is basically the same thing, but with each twisted pair in it's own shielding, which is also grounded.  

I said fuck it an ran cat8 in our new house.  Future proof as much as possible.

The big difference is 20 years ago, video existed, people just didn't envision streaming it. There was a change in utilization of existing technology. In order to exceed cat5e speeds there will have to be some marvelous new technology that requires insanely high bandwidth. I cannot fathom what could possibly increase bandwidth 10 times current, much less 100 times. As a matter of fact, most developments right now are being made in decreasing bandwidth needs, IE, Netflix's streaming algorithm that requires insanely small bandwidth to stream good video.



So going above cat5e eliminates the possibility of using POE camera systems? That alone is a solid reason to not go above 5e. I can totally understand wanting to use the cat6 cable bc of the low cost difference but it doesn't buy any real benefits. 6A buys a little for people needing the bandwidth but then you have that big fat cable to mess with.

Update from OP....

Met with the electrician yesterday and laid out the house.

He only runs CAT 6 so that solved that decision.  No labor cost difference and mat'l cost doesn't justify him storing both.  

Yes, I am having run empty conduit from the utility room to every conceivable needed spot for future use.  Cheap insurance.  

Thanks all for your suggestions and input.

OP,
One other thing you might consider is if you think you might install security cameras at some point.  
In some builds it is virtually impossible to run a hidden wire to a security camera because of low roof height in that area.
Just an idea.

No no, it shouldn't matter.  That's up to your device to decide how many of the wires to use, not the cable. Cat 6 is just a Cat 5 cable with a little extra shielding.  They have the same wiring and are backwards compatible.  If the device is 100 MB and wants just wants to push signal through two of the pairs and power through the other pairs, it can still do that regardless if it's a Cat 5 or Cat 6 cable.  If it's a 1 GB device, then it needs to be a Cat6 cable or Cat5alphabetsomething.  Most devices are smart enough to auto sense if they can or can't, but if they are in doubt, they'll auto down-throttle to 100 MB. Which is why you really want to make sure you're running over-engineered 1000 MB lines.  Because if your Cat5alphabit only barely hits 1000 MBcapability, your device will say F'it, and run as if it's a 100 MB Cat 5 cable.  Cat 6 gives you more comfortable assurity, and your device is more likely to want to stay running at its full 1000+ MB.  

Regarding camers - you're not likely to use the pre-installed cables for camera's anyway, since those generally are data-dedicated for your router signal.  If you're planning on running camera's too, then you need to talk to your electrician have him run an extra set for the camera network as well; because all POE systems require their own dedicated Cat 5 (or 6 if you have it, same thing), from the DVR to the mounted camera's anyway - they won't use your data-network lines that are already in use.  I'd be sure to run Cat6 for that, since the extra shielding in the cable can only help.  The cable doesn't care if one of the pairs is used for power rather than signal.

Wut?

Maybe with some systems but certainly not all. I have a dozen POE cameras running off the same POE switch that powers everything in my house. The footage is stored on my NAS.

I don't understand, are you are using the same Ethernet cables that are feeding from your data devices at the location to your data router, to also push to your camera's?  I don't even know how you would do that, since don't the cables have to terminate at your DVR, rather than the router?  And if so, doesn't that mean your router is now being forced to run as Cat 5 and so throttle down, since it's having to use some of the cables for power now, rather than for signal?

The cameras are only 100Mb. I have a 24 port POE switch. Each port on the switch sets its speed independently. The cameras run at 100 Mb and are powered by the switch. Other things run at 1000 Mb. All the cameras are plugging in to the switch and then I have my NAS plugged in to the switch and it functions as a DVR.

Let's start clearing some of this up...

Cat 5 is no longer used as far as I am aware. Cat 5E is the lowest spec in common usage, and Cat 6A is the highest spec in common usage. Cat 6 uses a tighter twist rate on the pairs. Cat 6A adds shielding around the outside of all 4 pairs. Cat 7 adds shielding to each twisted pair. Cat 7 and Cat 7A are not adopted by TIA/EIA. Cat 7 uses a new connector, one of which can be backward compatible with RJ45 connectors. Cat 8 is adopted by TIA/EIA, and can use RJ45 compatible connectors, or non-compatible connectors depending on which class.

The category of the cable does not determine how many of the twisted pairs are used. That is determined by the data speed. 10 Mpbs and 100 Mbps use only 2 pairs. 1 Gbps and higher uses all 4 pairs. POE can be used no matter which data speed is being used. Ethernet is a differential signal and the data can be transmitted on top of the POE power. The data is transmitted on each pair by creating a voltage differential between the 2 wires in the twisted pair. The twist helps ensure they don't pick up outside interference. POE power is provided by creating a voltage differential between pairs vs. wires in a pair. So one pair would be +24 V and the other would be ground.


Not sure what you're trying to say about the POE cameras. 1 Gbps is far more than any camera will need, but regardless, Cat 5E can support 1 Gbps.


You're using confusing network device terminology here. A router can be viewed as the top layer of your home network. The ISP's modem connects to the router to provide WAN access to your devices. The router then connects to a switch(es) to distribute connections to your network devices. Each camera will have a dedicated line back to a switch. Switches can be daisy-chained (debate on doing this, but it does work), so you do not need a direct cable run back to your main switch, although I would recommend it if you're doing a new build. Also, as I wrote above, using POE has nothing to do with throttling data speeds. DVR works to get your point across, but it's technically an NVR (network video recorder) and often times it's a dedicated PC/server rather than a separate device.


This. All modern network devices I'm familiar with auto-negotiate the port speed on a port-by-port basis.

Gotcha, nice switch.  I've been looking more at budget systems.  Most of the <$300 POE DVR 5MP camera systems come with their own (cheap) ethernet cables, 4 day/night camera's, and a bunch of ethernet plugs in the back, and most of the cheap switches in the house are basic (dumb'ish) $20 units.  Neat to see the technology has improved on the switches too, where each port can decide both speed, and if it is going to push POE.  That may be a bit more professional than every house-hold users is going to roll with?

I'm glad someone else on this forum knows what's going on.... lots of questionable/bad info floating around.  

At my last place, before I got a PoE switch, I ran all my cameras to a "dumb" PoE switch, then tagged the port that switch was into on my core switch.  That effectively put all the cameras on their own VLAN, and powered them through the dumb switch.  

Pull more drops than you need now.  You don't need to patch every drop.  Put some drops in your attic if you decide to put cameras in later.  

Unless you're using an ancient hub, each switch is individually negoatiated for speed and duplex.  If you're using an ancient hub, it's time to upgrade anyways.

PoE gets into a whole other discussion... passive and all those voltages (usually 24 and 48v), vs. active (af, at, bt, various modes).  All runs on the same cables.

In the attic of my condo I had a couple drops.  The cameras I installed, I'd just pull the cable up into the attic and patch it into those drops.  Cable management in the attic isn't as big of a deal vs. house/living spaces.  I'm doing the same thing in this place.


For a few cameras/APs in my house, I've pulled a cable and terminated the end.  No sense in a keystone/etc in there, the connection's buried in the ceiling.


Camera and coverplate for the cable connection.

Some prefer to separate video traffic to it's own switch, however it's not necessary.  If you're running a managed switch, you can set ports the cameras are connected to be on their own vlan.  Everything can be run off the same POE switch, or you can use inline power injectors between the non-POE switch and POE devices.  POE injectors only make sense of you have a small number or POE devices and you're too cheap to buy a POE switch.

Networked DVR's only have one ethernet port.  The network cameras connect to the switch, not the DVR.  You choose which camera is which display number by assigning a camera's IP to that display number.  Old coax cameras with BNC plugs connect directly to DVR's.

Here's what the back of a cheap 5 MP DOE DVR looks like.



With 4 5MP camera's, whole rig goes for $220.   Not sure if this system would work with an approach that doesn't use it's own dedicated ethernet cables.

https://www.amazon.com/HisEEu-POEKIT-4HB624-POE-CCTV-System/dp/B07HRKDD6B

I’m not following what you’re saying about dedicated Ethernet cables. IP cameras require a dedicated Ethernet cable. Doesn’t matter if it terminates directly in a cheap DVR, a switch that’s also connected to an NVR, or a series of daisy chained switches. It’s just a difference of network topology, but each IP camera has a dedicated Ethernet cable to it. The termination point of said cable differs depending on how you designed the network.

Sure, thanks for following up.  I guess from what you are saying, even that cheap $220 rig; in a house with Ethernet lines run to each floor and all corners.
-I put the DVR anywhere
-I mount my 4 cameras, plug in the camera rig's supplied eithernet cable into the camera
-Go to my house ethernet cable at that corner of the house, that was solo running my TV or whatever, that's nearby.  Plug a small cheap 1000MB capable hub/switch into that house-ethernet cable (I assume one that takes external power?).  Run a fresh short-cable to the TV that was being serviced, to keep that going.
- Then plug my camera's cable into any remaining slot on that cheap hub (techincally I think they are called "switches" now).  
- Now that hub knows to run all 4 wire pairs to the TV, but only run 2 pairs of signal to my camera, and use the other 2 pairs for power, and to throttle down to 100 MB, for the camera, but the TV is still running at 1000.
- Signal shares the house-wire going back to main house-Router/Hub
- A separate Ethernet wire goes from house-Router/Hub, to my cheap DVR.  And in the one photo'd, it would just go to that separate 9th one marked for ethernet coms, and I just completely ignore the 8 dedicated camera ethernet plugs.  
- And all 4 camera feeds will come in that way, and the transmission from the DVR to my remote access on my phone, is going back out that same cable to my router, which talks to the interwebs to let my phone remote access.

Is that how modern POE' works?

What if I'm running a cheap Monoprice $8 10/100 hub/switch like this on one of the cables?  (which obviously can't do 1000 anyway in this case).

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=303&cp_id=10521&cs_id=3030601&p_id=15760&seq=1&format=2

1. I can’t guarantee the cheap package would work that way. That’s essentially how a build-your-own surveillance setup would work, with small corrections.

2.  POE does not pass through a switch, unless the switch is capable of doing it. That cheap Monoprice switch will likely not pass through and it won’t provide its own POE. Therefore, the cameras wouldn’t work.

3.  Your talk about the TV using 4 wires, camera using 2, and POE using 2 isn’t how Ethernet works. Internet protocols are packet based. Each packet is addressed to a device. Think of it like the USPS. The distribution centers are like your router. All mail in and out goes through them and they figure out where to send it. The local offices are like switches. The mail gets delivered based on an address and new mail either gets delivered locally or sent to the distribution center for routing. Basically, both the TV and the camera could use all 8 data lines. The switch would send a TV packet, then a camera packet so on and so forth.

4. Also, POE is separate from data. So POE can and does run on the same wires at the same time as data. Ethernet is differential signaling. The device compares the voltage between the two wires in a pair. If it’s 0, that’s a 0, if it’s positive, that’s a 1. One wire is pulled high and the other pulled low. Slightly simplified explanation. POE can run on top of that because it makes one whole pair 24 V (or whichever POE voltage) and another pair ground. That doesn’t affect the differential signal because on the 24 V pair, one would go up to 25V and the other down to 23V to make a data bit 1. Does that make sense how POE and data transfer are separate?

I’m going with CAT 7A.

Why?
It’s new construction so it’s very easy right now.
Material costs are small in comparison to labor.
More shielding is better.
CAT8 jumps the cost up, same with fiber.  So those are out.
It’s my forever house so why not?  Lord willing.  
Aside from the minimal material cost increase, there is no downside to pick 7 over 6.  

If y’all know what tech will be available 10 years from now. Chime in.  Stock symbols are bonus.

You’re probably not going with Cat 7A. It’s not all that prevalent and provides no benefit in a residential setting. The shielding is more of a detractor in residential as EMI from motors and ballasts, etc aren’t really an issue. Cat 6A also gives you the same speed potential (10Gb) that 7A does... without all of the hassle. The expense between the two is also on the order of 30% or so more for 7A.

I’ve had one client in the past 5 years ask for something above Cat 6/6A. People that are building 25 and 50 year buildings aren’t putting 7/7A/8 in because there isn’t any real benefit.

How is the additional shielding of 7A a detractor?  Aside from cost, I don’t understand.  

I guarantee I’ll get what I want when I’m writing the check.  If the electrician doesn’t want to or can’t do it, then we get another.  

Thankfully the second electrician said, no problem.  

Just on Amazon 6A is $150 and 7A is $350 for 1000 feet.  $200 difference is $200 and 130% increase.  I understand.  

Cat8 goes to $850.  

Now if the labor scaled with material cost .... For a residential application that $200 is very little in a new build.  

I'm not an expert but from what I understand, the labor for shielded (7A) goes up dramatically bc it is fatter & stiffer, making it harder to handle & pull. And the connectors have additional steps to bond all the shielding properly. The wire cost is the cheap part.

Shielding may act like an antenna and add noise to the signal if it's used on equipment that isn't specifically designed for shielded cable. The differential signalling used in Ethernet is more than sufficient to cancel out noise/EMI when used with unshielded cable.

The cheap DVR with built in POE ports is a choice for not investing in a discrete POE switch.  You do not have to segregate camera traffic to a separate network.  The only reason I would put it's on it own vlan or separate network is to keep other devices from accessing the cameras.  A discrete POE switch can also be used to power wireless access points or other networks attached devices that can POE powered, and as a Raspberry Pi with a POE hat.

Sure.  But back to the original topic, run a separate set of Ethernet cables for POE equipment and it's sure to work with anything you've got.  Or you can use a shared ethernet cable, but you'll need to make sure you're running more premium hardware which may or may not be able to do it all over the shared wire.  The good expensive stuff will, but the stuff you got on sale last week... maybe.  

Not sure where you are going with the "shared " ethernet cable.  I agree if your network traffic is heavy, you are not going to be using cheap switches.  You are now looking at enterprise level managed switches capable of turning on and off ports, turning on/ off POE at ports, using vlans, and setting priority or quality of service for necessary traffic.  If this is the case, you're not daisy chaining switches with a cat(x) cable.  Your switches will have a higher speed uplink port that uses a gbic to connect via copper or fiber to a multi layer switch.  Is it safe to assume your "shared" cable implies the connection between switches?

I guess where I'm coming from, is the original premise I made was that modern security camera's often come using POE based systems, and if one wants to future-proof their house, running an extra set of cables to support dedicated POE, might be useful.  To which there were replies stating no-no, the main household cable will be able to carry that too.  But when I started asking about it, there was a lot of welllll-this, and wellll-that, to suggest that maybe not such a sure thing that plan will work for basic consumer level POE camera systems with basic consumer level household network equipment.  

Which brings me back full-circle, that if one is interested in running POE security cameras around the house, and having wiring run already while the walls are exposed, than running an extra set dedicated to the POE camera's locations, might be a good idea.

Naturally you'd want direct drops to where a camera would go instead of running a patch cord to a pre-existing wall jack somewhere else in the room or alongside a building.  The line is not really a dedicated camera line - it's conveniently placed for camera installation.  If you don't place a camera there, you could install a wireless access point.

And so we circle around and around again.  

The household single ethernet cable is just fine and you don't need dedicated ethernet wires for your cameras dedicated from DVR to each Camera.  But your consumer level network gear and camera system maybe won't support doing that.   So depending on your consumer level network gear and consumer level DVR camera system, maybe that won't work - and maybe you will need dedicated ethernet lines for your particular POE system to work.  But you don't need dedicated ethernet lines.  

uh... right.

Response  in blue.  I avoided using the word "dedicated."  I hope this is better.