I know it is difficult for you old timers to understand hip new lingo

Thats my point though, there is no competition for those jobs. Almost double the work force and end entitlements and you will see people doing a good job again or they will be fired and suffer. But of course we won't end entitlements as they were designed to get us to this point and more. But it will all end if/when the war really escalates.

If you are that good and being mistreated then it should be easy to switch to another company.

I have… a few times. Nobody gives a fuck as long as their numbers look good and it eventually shows.

You believe the above because your jobs sucks, not because everyone's job sucks.  

I've had plenty of jobs where I didn't even think about the money for long periods of time.

You hear stories all the time of people working into their 70s and 80s because they like what they do.  They aren't suckers.  They are fulfilled by having a purpose.

There are so many young people out there that joined the job market after 2010 that have no idea what a real downturn looks like. That bullshit they pulled where they paid everyone $1200+/week to not work during covid really tainted people's minds.

How about "act your employment status"? I suspect a lot of very "principled" unemployed morons soon. Imagine if you got paid based on your performance or production?

ROCK6

Already do this.  I have specific goals aligned with my pay.  I do them.  I don't do more unless I'm compensated for the extra work.

The only person who actually benefits from my extra work is my boss, and he can get fucked.

I'm all for it. I imagine most employers will jump on it also.
It could eliminate wages altogether. Everybody getting paid piecework and commissions would be a wet dream for employers.

IOW, starve you lazy cunts !!!

Shitty companies are the norm, it seems.

Then vote with your feet.  I have found it is not that hard to find another job.  Your not a slave, they don't chain you to your desk.   My last boss was a loser.  Everyone got the same raise.  Work hard, fucked off didn't matter.  After the first raise cycle when I found this out, boom got another job.

In a world like that I might get a cheeseburger where the cheese was actually on the bun. I might have a waitress return to my table once in awhile.

No...I dare not imagine a day where American quality of service returned to what it once was.

In corporate (at least in banking) it has zilch to do with that. It is a direct result of HR policies that have removed any incentives to actually work hard. The annual reviews have not included any means to get more than Achieve in a decade. So why kill myself to get a 1.75% increase instead of a 1.5% for merely Achieving the base line expectation? This is what kills me about the reports of wages increasing. It ain’t happening in the middle office operations wages in banking. The sun 50k workers have gotten multiple raises to get their salaries up, but the folks making over that haven’t seen anything over 2% in a decade or more. The folks above get bonuses as well, but the middle are still screwed yet doing the majority of the actual operations. So I completely understand the Office Space work mindset.

My first job was as a laborer working for my dad in 1975.  I made $2.50 an hour and I was 16 years old.  He fired me a week later because I wasn’t 18.  It was a long time before I saw $2.50 an hour again. Later, I worked as laborer for another outfit during the day and McDonalds at night.  This was just during summer break while I was in school.  My dad lost his construction company because of the recession that started in 75 through 76-77.  I graduated debt free; I thought taking out loans were for suckers.  I thought I worked as hard as I could.  I did fuck off a little in the summer because I got tired near the end.  I’ve never thought of just doing the minimum.  But, I’ve always enjoyed my job.  That’s right, I liked my work.  Being a rookie cop doesn’t pay much, that’s for sure.  But if you work hard, take advantage of educational opportunities, and take promotional exams, and pass, you don’t have to stand out in the rain working traffic accidents any more.  Get promoted again, and you can be a watch commander AND have an office bitch.  I guess I’ve had an easy life.

Up until a week ago, I worked with a guy who kept insisting he should be making more in his position.

The owner hired him on at +$2 over my rate thinking he was doing the guy a favor.

He'd keep showing up 30-45 minutes late and leaving early and complaining about never having enough money.

When I said I was leaving the company due to an old friend deciding to get me back into a field I'd done work in years ago, I said I'd be using my PTO between Christmas and NY, and he was like "what's PTO?"

Another coworker told him "you earn PTO after 40 hours every week."

I hope that business succeeds, but my old boss is in over his head.  He thinks throwing money at those who don't give a crap about your company will ultimately bring success.

It won't.  The work ethic required to handle what I was in charge of is going to be sorely needed in the coming weeks and reality is about to smack him in the face.

If you didnt get a salary increase of at least 10-15% over the last 3 years you took a pay cut.

This thread is summed up by two competing mindsets

"I live to work. Work gives me fulfillment ."

Vs

"I work to live. Work is a means that gives me the ability to do the things that give me fulfillment."


Neither is the wrong way, but it is interesting how people will attack others with a different viewpoint.

The article is kind of generic but I interpreted more as a work/life balance thing. Things like neverending mandatory OT on salaried positions really just waters down the employees average rate. Also getting "promotions" with no monetary compensation tied to it despite adding more workload. I've seen plenty of people get fucked over throughout the years with stuff like that and people are pushing back against it now.

Now, and the article mentions this, constantly doing the absolute bare minimum can backfire too as you will get outshone by anyone in the office that is a higher performer and/or you'll be more at risk when layoffs occur.

Business succeeds by throwing money at employees that make company money.

Alternately, you get what you pay for.  Pay for a 6 piece McNuggets, don't bitch that you didn't get a 20 piece.

Similarly, if you pay a wage that is in the lower half of the salary range for that work, you get an effort in the lower half of the effort range for that work.  

I don't see a problem.

I think that will be changing in the not too distant future.  They are gonna be in for a surprise.

In this thread, every single person will paint with a broad brush, assuming their anecdotal experience as a worker, customer, manager, or business owner is universal.

Act your wage seems prevalent in my department at a fortune 100 FWIW

This is nothing new.
I have always heard people say “ if they pay me more I will work harder”.

No it doesn’t. You’re using it in the wrong context.
In this scenario, it means don’t work harder than your wage IE minimum wage, $25/hr, $40/hr, $90/hr

Whether it's right or wrong, I'm not sure what your post has to do with mine or the one I was responding to.  Don't inject an opinion into my post just so you can argue it.  

But “doing a good job” is not the same as going above and beyond for years and years and getting taken advantage of
Sure, take on some new responsibilities for 90 days to prove yourself for a promotion.
Do a supervisory role for years without supervisor pay? Nah

Let the corporation downsize the dept and you assume the work of multiple people for years on end? Nah

When you buy a new car - do you pay for it 2 weeks before you get to drive it?  Or do you expect to drive it right away, and pay for it right away?

There is the third option. Which admittedly isn't me nowadays, but it was when I worked at McDonalds, Subway, and pet stores while younger. The third option is you were hired to do a job so you do that job to a high standard because that is who you are as a person. You don't have to take it to extremes and do more than what is your job description but you should do your job well regardless of the pay.

This trend that many are buying into here...it's about doing a shit job because currently you can get away with that as businesses are hurting for staff. It is not about turning down work that is outside of your job scope or working like a slave. In fact its kind of intreresting that the folks chiming in with attitudes similar to my own seem to be fullfilled in their work. There could be something in that.

I remember working at Subway in the early nineties while in highschool. The owner had what I thought was a really nice car. I didnt for one second think why does he have that and not me, I deserve that too. Instead I thought I want to be succesful like him where I can have that car.

My wife was a banker. She was a commercial portfolio 1st vice president that managed loans for commercial customers.  She worked from 7am to 5pm, everyday.  Then she had to go out of town once or twice a month to visit companies that she was making loans to.  She could authorize loans on her signature alone, for 20mm.  She worked hard, but she was paid well and got a bonus that was HALF my salary.  Just the bonus aspect alone dwarfed what I made.  To be honest, even if they didn’t pay her that much, she still would have done an outstanding job.  She doesn’t fuck around and she doesn’t do shit work.  That’s just not who she is.  I don’t know what position you hold within your bank, but my wife was treated very well and was generously rewarded.

Thats great. Of course, that philosophy gets you a motherfucker that won't do shit else but "clean" the same thing all day.  They are a fucking outstanding employee though. I'll bet they even get there 15 minutes early ( they aint going to do shit until starting time), even though they aint around when you need someone to stay late to get something done. Probably should promote them.

Exactly. But the middle in this field don’t get those type of raises. Just the Arfcom millionaire types do, lol. Why I chuckle when folks piddle and moan about bankers. We ain’t the ones making the big bucks.

I think its a little more complex and nuanced than that.

There is an apocalypse for the long time employed due to inflation.  Cost of living has radically outstripped pay raises to compensate.  Many…. A fuckton really, of people are fed up with getting the same pay with so much higher cost of living, and companies denying raises to meet the new economic reality.

Far too many will blame it on long expired unemployment benefits and two stimulus checks y’all got two years ago.

Indeed. And I've seen diatribes from people who claim none of us have any reason to be proud of anything. Including our own heritage, accomplishments of our ancestors, or even pride in America itself.

He was a bitter, pompous, left wing 13%er, so this attitude wasn't a shock, but was quite pathetic. And I told him so. It helps to explain some of the generational failure on constant repeat.

Define "work ethic".  It might mean different things to different people.

Businesses exist to make money.  Good businesses make more money.  They make more money by increasing profits, bringing in more profit for the same amount of expenses.  Cost cutting is a way to increase profits.

If a business owner experiences a downturn in their industry, and has to cut expenses by laying off some of their employees, is that unethical?  What if they could technically afford to keep paying them, but would take a huge hit to profits compounded by the slowdowns plus paying workers to do work that doesn't exist because of the slowdowns?  

Should the business owner cut back on family vacations in order to keep paying employees they don't need because of an industry downturn?  Should the business owner have to start buying store brand corn flakes?  Or should they reduce labor costs by cutting some employees loose and distributing the workload among the people they keep?

From the employee perspective (the ones that didnt get laid off), this will mean more work for the same pay.  When business was good, these employees worked at a given pace, and were compensated at a given rate.  Now that there is a downturn, their employer expects them to work MORE for the same pay in order to sustain the business and avoid making personal lifestyle adjustments as much as possible.

So, when the topic of work ethic comes up, it is usually pretty one sided and always attempts to shame workers who choose their own lifestyle over the company (and by extension, their employer).  Sure, there are anecdotes about employers tightening their belts in order to keep their workforce going through tough times.  But these are insignificant compared to the daily decisions made to try to squeeze every ounce of productivity out of employees.

So when I hear "work ethic" I usually think "meaningless sacrifice that goes unrewarded" most of the time.  That's not to say I think people should intentionally do a shitty job.  It's just a recognition of the fact that a pragmatic person will not work harder than necessary unless they see some potential for advancement in doing so.  Many job positions are fixed and will never translate to a higher paid position.  That's a dead end, and working harder isn't going to get you promoted to a higher position with a higher pay scale.  So you do whatever it takes to collect a check without sacrificing too much of your time and effort.

If I am striving for excellence every day, I expect frequent increases in pay and other compensation.  Unrewarded excellence is unsustainable because it requires a degree of personal sacrifice that can't be maintained long term without "paying off".

TLDR If you are paid to make 10 widgets a day and you make 11 just because you can, you'd better be getting paid 10% more than the guy making 10 per day, or you're a sucker.

This.

"Your annual raise will be based on your performance and completion of the goals on your performance plan."

Result - we all get the same 3% raise by the same manager who knows damned well that HIS raise comes out of the same part of money, and is signed off on by his boss who has no idea what I do, how well I do it, and probably couldn't pick me out of a line up.

Same reward?  Same effort, and I'm updating my LinkedIn profile on company time.

I’m there at my job.  Despite record breaking quarters, quarter after quarter, they aren’t hiring enough people and having us do more and more that’s outside of our job description.  

I’m starting to half ass stuff intentionally to make them either

A. Realize they need to hire people to actually preform these job roles, or
B. Stop asking me to do this stuff.

You aren't thinking about money because you HAVE ENOUGH.  Kinda like air.  You probably haven't thought about air at all until you read this.  Let someone put you in a chokehold, and that will change.

If you didn't have enough money,  you would damned sure be thinking about it.

Min wage was 4.10$
Starting as an electrician apprentice was 8$ journeyman was 12 to 13$.
Rents were 600$ for a small 900sq ft no thrills place.
Paid off loans etc on that dime.

Now it's
15$ min and up.
Rents are under 2k.
Yet all we hear is " muh student debt..I'm 28 and living at home..."

What's changed........

This guy gets it!  Overloading yourself isn't setting you up for promotion.  "Look at all the work I get done for you boss!"  If you're the only one working, you're staying right where you are to keep getting it done.  Boss isn't going to endanger productivity with a promotion.

Well put.

This.

Things sure do change with time.

If money wasnt a worry, your financial needs were being met in one way or another.

My response can actually be quite short.

Your morals and ethics have nothing to do with another’s morals and ethics. There isn’t anything one sided, two sided, or any sided about it.

I see a man in front of me that I know is a hateful ass in so many ways. Maybe we have even argued in the past. He drops his wallet. I am the kind of guy that will still pick it up and hand it back to him. That isn’t for him, it was for me.

I work to live,  I don't live to work

One day I will be dead and no one will ever remember my work at my job, my family will remember my life at home.

Work is a means to an end, nothing more. I work to keep the wolf away from the door and to enjoy my life.  I do a good job at work because my employer recognizes it and I  am benefitted more by it, if not, I wouldn't work as hard and produce the quality results I do.  

Simple.

I promise you the folks in operations who did all the internal back office work to ensure those loans were processed and that the payments for said loans were processed properly DID NOT get the type of bonuses your wife got. You are confusing entirely different areas within the bank. But without quality operations folks your wife would have never had a product to actually sell. I’m an AVP in wealth management operations so I have a bit of firsthand experience. This situation described in the article is a direct result of HR ‘feel good’ philosophy that has pretty well screwed the person that tries to do their best, as they get extra work given to them yet receive little financial reward for the over and above effort they give. So again, while I don’t practice the mindset, I completely understand the folks that do. Companies have done this to themselves.