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Posted: 2/23/2021 11:23:46 AM EDT
[#1]
I haven’t read all the pages, but dies the class set a cost on rifle and optic or is this OP’s budget?
ETA: read through page 2. This class sounds bizarre, and to be honest, sort of stupid.. Is it being offered for free? If free, then I guess I’d bring a beater rifle and scrounge up cheap glass. I don’t see why I’d take time off, incur travel expenses/ammo cost and put down money for a class where I couldn’t bring my best gear. I sure wouldn’t do all that and then spend $800 on midline gear. Of course, how do you couture out what costs $800? My current hunting rig is an older Remington 700 ADL with a Vortex Razor on top. I paid less than $800 for the setup, because I don’t mind buying stuff where someone else knocked the new off. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 11:27:27 AM EDT
[#2]
Mauser m18 in caliber of your choice and Nikon 4-16 fx1000 black for 349 on closeout
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Posted: 2/23/2021 11:33:36 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread reminds me of the time I attended an informal precision rifle match with pop-up Ivans at unknown distances. I show up rocking my fixed 10x Bushnell 3200 on my beater home made AR while everyone else has $3k+ bolt rigs.. The match consisted of Ivans popping up randomly for 5 seconds from 0 to 800+ m. Before the match started it started raining and sleeting and fog moved in and target visibility became a problem. Long story short I didn't touch my turrets, I just used the holdovers I already knew on the reticle. Wind was pretty light so that I just doped based on feel and watching my bullet traces through the scope. I absolutely smoked the rest of the competitors. Like it wasn't even close. I killed so many Ivans they lost track while many of the "tacticalgarand44wtfbbq" Arfcommer types didn't hit a single target because the sleet was fucking up their gear queer crap and their OODA loop got jacked by a little bit of weather. Anyway long story short I'm not a "sniper" but I do have sharp eyes and know the dope on my rifles and inside 1000 m I can have lead in the air so fast it will make your head spin. It's the Indian not the arrow. Are you lugging a 20lb precision rifle and glass with you everywhere you go? The gear queers and the Arfcom "snipers" in this thread crack me up. Get real. You must be a god, can you teach us? With a win streak like that and disregard of even having dope for the days conditions... that's a pretty impressive feat. Or maybe those targets were massive and your competitors weren't very good. IME ARs dont win those types of competitions unless the match director specifically designs the stages around full sized silhouettes and big round counts. The typical 1.5-2moa and down target sizes out to 1000y you find in PRS aren't a good mix with even large frame gas guns for a variety of reasons. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 11:37:16 AM EDT
[#4]
A really good teacher had me hitting at 1k with a $200 Bushnell elite 10X that I bought 10 years ago. That said it was not fun using that scope past 600.
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Posted: 2/23/2021 11:42:58 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was in law enforcement in the early/mid eighties in a small rural sheriff’s department. Four counties banded together and formed what they called SERT (Sheriff’s Emergency Responce Teams) basically rudimentary SWAT teams. We did a 40 hour training course put on by a local university. Those of us selected as our unit’s “Snipers” got an extra 8 hours training. Our department didn’t have a bolt action rifle, so I provided my own. It was a Remington 788 in 308 with a Weaver 4 power scope. I still have it and would probably take this class with it although it wears a little better optic nowadays. The rifle was my Christmas present from my Dad for my 11th Christmas and I think it was $115. The scope on it now is a 15 year old Swarovski 3-12 with a TDS reticle. With FGMM 175s it’s actually a very effective package. If you take the original price of the rifle and the current value of the used scope, it should squeak in under $800.  I watched a very clean .308 788 go across the auction block two days ago for $750. One of my favorite "cheap" rifles when I first got into shooting. Not cheap anymore. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 11:47:06 AM EDT
[#6]
A $400 AR and $400 scope. You’re welcome. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 11:50:32 AM EDT
[#7]
@Merlin this thread might be relevant to your interests
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Posted: 2/23/2021 11:56:44 AM EDT
[#8]
If it has to be 308 for an urban setting:
Ruger American Predator 308 Burris RT6 1-6 Illuminated LPVO Fast handling and enough scope to get out 3-400 yards in an urban setting. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 11:59:47 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah I still have one on an old 308, which is why I mentioned it. Here's the deal. My two sons have a Savage and Ruger American as their first big game rifles. Are they great rifles for the money? Yeah, although my oldest sons Savage has taken a few hundred dollars to get to run right with a new trigger, stock, etc. I bought those knowing what they would be used for. I bought those knowing, as a competition shooter, that I have seen piles of Savages and cheaper optics fail at matches. I knew that, but I didn't buy them for competition shooting. Every gun has a purpose. I love that little Ruger American I bought my son, but I'm not delueuonal enough to pretend it would hold up for a training class. I have one of the “new generation” budget rifles, a TC Compass. For what it is designed to do, it does good. But high volume shooting is not the design intent for budget hunting rifles or budget optics. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 12:01:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Savage 10fcp and Bushnell SFP 5L.
I put both together for $800, but that was pre-idiot-market, so dunno might be out of range now. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 12:13:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Having read more of the thread...
Im go to go with the Ruger American Go Wild Camo/Bronze Bolt Action Rifle - 308 Winchester - 22in $589 Threaded, Cold Hammer-Forged Barrel With Factory-Installed Muzzle Brake Factory-Installed One-Piece Picatinny Scope Base Includes One Magazine And Sling Swivel Studs Ergonomic, Lightweight Synthetic Stock Power Bedding Integral Bedding Blocks Three-Lug Bolt With 70-Degree Throw Ruger Marskman Adjustable Trigger  https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/rifles/ruger-american-go-wild-camobronze-bolt-action-rifle-308-winchester-22in/p/1506875 Vortex Crossfire II 4-12x50 Adjustable Objective Rifle Scope $193  [https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-crossfire-ii-4-12x50-adjustable-objective-rifle-scope.html?_iv_parent-minimum-magnification=4-x |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 12:28:09 PM EDT
[#12]
Thompson Center Compass with a Nikon Black FX1000 4-16 from EuroOptic puts you at about 850.
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Posted: 2/23/2021 12:41:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Having read more of the thread... Im go to go with the Ruger American Go Wild Camo/Bronze Bolt Action Rifle - 308 Winchester - 22in $589 Threaded, Cold Hammer-Forged Barrel With Factory-Installed Muzzle Brake Factory-Installed One-Piece Picatinny Scope Base Includes One Magazine And Sling Swivel Studs Ergonomic, Lightweight Synthetic Stock Power Bedding Integral Bedding Blocks Three-Lug Bolt With 70-Degree Throw Ruger Marskman Adjustable Trigger https://ruger.com/products/americanRifleGoWild/images/26926.jpg https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/rifles/ruger-american-go-wild-camobronze-bolt-action-rifle-308-winchester-22in/p/1506875 Vortex Crossfire II 4-12x50 Adjustable Objective Rifle Scope $193 https://www.optics-trade.eu/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/1-6.png [https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-crossfire-ii-4-12x50-adjustable-objective-rifle-scope.html?_iv_parent-minimum-magnification=4-x For a budget rifle, that's a good option. Having owned Crossfire II scopes in the past, I feel like that's simply throwing $200 in the trash. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 12:55:10 PM EDT
[#14]
After reading this thread, enjoying the purse swinging and the good insights a few comments.
1) Many have forgotten the words of Isoroku Yamamoto. 2) Limiting caliber choice to .308Win drives price up in almost any rifle due to demand. 3) People are focused on contemporary/modern rifles and optics. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 1:27:37 PM EDT
[#15]
https://www.academy.com/shop/browse/outdoors/shooting/firearms/rifles/bolt-action-rifles
https://www.opticsplanet.com/leupold-vx-freedom-4-12x40-1-inch-riflescopes.html There are options. Again, don’t expect to use turrets at this price point. Get a reticle you can use and be prepared for some limitations. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 1:32:46 PM EDT
[#16]
Seems like this would be a much better video series.
Could really highlight the importance of fundamental skill vs tier 1 gear It would likely highlight the limitations and likely breakage of lower tier gear. And if you're asking a group of shooters to piece together the best possible rifle for $800, to prove your point, you better be providing ammo and lunch. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 1:32:50 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you guys suck at shooting when it’s not tier 1 equipment? Ba-zing. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 1:39:02 PM EDT
[#18]
I'd be trying to fill the class with experienced shooters, 5 competitors and 5 professionals.
Give a loose outline of what the rifle needs to do and the situations it will be used in. Part 1: shooter introductions with rifle selection and theory behind their choice. Discussing potential short comings and expectations of performance. Part 2: class time. Fundamentals/drills/ect Part 3: reflection on performance and what if any changes in equipment they'd do |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 1:52:51 PM EDT
[#19]
There's a couple ways to read that requirement, and it's poorly worded.
They could be requiring a minimum value, to avoid malfunctions and failure of crappy gear. Again it doesn't actually specify anything and is poorly worded. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 1:54:45 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ba-zing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Do you guys suck at shooting when it's not tier 1 equipment? Ba-zing. Why wouldn't Precision Shooters be able to use a cheap gun and optic? |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 1:59:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.academy.com/shop/browse/outdoors/shooting/firearms/rifles/bolt-action-rifles https://www.opticsplanet.com/leupold-vx-freedom-4-12x40-1-inch-riflescopes.html There are options. Again, don't expect to use turrets at this price point. Get a reticle you can use and be prepared for some limitations. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 2:03:38 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. And learning to work within those limitations is what Calderon is going for here. Hell, we have holdover stages all the time, it isn't that hard. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 2:05:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can Schumacher drive a Camry to Harbor Freight? Why wouldn't Precision Shooters be able to use a cheap gun and optic? This and moreover what mastrabatory fantasy do people envision actually necessitate offensive engagement of human beings at extended ranges.. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 2:19:30 PM EDT
[#24]
I guess I'm back on the fence over the whole ordeal. I think it really comes down to who he is looking to have attend his class. I don't know anything about the guy, so it might be obvious just from him being part of it.
Actual pro/competitive shooters that already have the fundamentals down? I can see the appeal of the class Beginner/intermediate shooters that don't have a solid grasp on the fundamentals? The class would be a shit show. If i was going, I'd grab the 788 308 carbine out of the back of the safe and throw a vortex 4-16 HST on top. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 2:21:42 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This and moreover what mastrabatory fantasy do people envision actually necessitate offensive engagement of human beings at extended ranges.. The cognitive dissonance is astounding. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 2:28:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This and moreover what mastrabatory fantasy do people envision actually necessitate offensive engagement of human beings at extended ranges.. A man that can hit a human chest 90% of the time inside of 600 yards is a man you ought not trifle with. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 2:32:44 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is your suggestion for a FFP mil/mil in the $400 range? This should be good. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lol at suggesting a fixed 10x scope for a "scout sniper" class in 2021. This forum disappoints me. This should be good. Question not directed at me but... Primary Arms 4-14x44 FFP |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 2:35:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a couple ways to read that requirement, and it's poorly worded. They could be requiring a minimum value, to avoid malfunctions and failure of crappy gear. Again it doesn't actually specify anything and is poorly worded. What is poorly worded? This entire discussion? The OP said the information is preliminary, so details you are questioning aren't yet available. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 2:39:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Just don't OP. That budget sounds like regret.
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Posted: 2/23/2021 2:46:07 PM EDT
[#30]
I bought a savage 10 for $99 after hunting season ended. Missing a screw.
Now I could put 700 into glass and still make it. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 3:18:24 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looking at taking a scout sniper course later on in the year. Not a lot of info on the course yet but preliminary info: rifle and glass must cost or be valued at $800. What do you pick and why? I know prices are higher now, but I think “normal pre-pandemic price” would suffice. Tell that to the numerous terrorists we haven't been able to defeat. they don't have the same silver spoon mindset as you. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 3:23:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Looking at taking an “urban scout” sniper course later on in the year. Not a lot of info on the course yet but preliminary info: rifle and glass must cost or be valued at $800. What do you pick and why? I know prices are higher now, but I think “normal pre-pandemic price” would suffice. I'm presuming that's the baseline value-wise for the class, so people don't show up with a nagant and a chinesium scope duct taped to it. Don't look for an $800 rig, look for the best you can easily afford, so you're not replacing it when you realize the cheaper option wasn't as good as you'd hoped. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 3:36:44 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tell that to the numerous terrorists we haven't been able to defeat. they don't have the same silver spoon mindset as you. So what your basically saying is forget advanced technology within a real scout sniper accredited class and take a class acting as a 3rd world terrorist. Pass. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 3:47:05 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This and moreover what mastrabatory fantasy do people envision actually necessitate offensive engagement of human beings at extended ranges.. Well, I'm pretty sure 100% of the citizens of Sarajevo in the mid 80's had zero inclination they would all live to see offensive engagement of human beings in their cities. Likely here? Probably not. Impossible? History says we're brewing up to exactly that kind of conflict, maybe worse. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 3:49:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Some of you guys need to learn how to have fun and lighten up a bit.
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Posted: 2/23/2021 3:53:22 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what your basically saying is forget advanced technology within a real scout sniper accredited class and take a class acting as a 3rd world terrorist. Pass. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Tell that to the numerous terrorists we haven't been able to defeat. they don't have the same silver spoon mindset as you. So what your basically saying is forget advanced technology within a real scout sniper accredited class and take a class acting as a 3rd world terrorist. Pass. 3rd world terrorist is how you view it, but many of them know the fundamentals which are far more important than the gear. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 3:54:13 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some of you guys need to learn how to have fun and lighten up a bit. Having fun is gay. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 3:58:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Looking at taking an “urban scout” sniper course later on in the year. Not a lot of info on the course yet but preliminary info: rifle and glass must cost or be valued at $800. What do you pick and why? I know prices are higher now, but I think “normal pre-pandemic price” would suffice. Surplus Izzy 98k, used Mauser LR side mount / or ATI stock and a Meopta 6x42 That's what I got and with IMI 168gr SMK I get subMOA all day. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 3:58:59 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't look for an $800 rig, look for the best you can easily afford, so you're not replacing it when you realize the cheaper option wasn't as good as you'd hoped. Hello sir, I'd like to get into the long range bolt gun game. I dont have very much expendable cash and I've been saving my fun money for the last 2 years. I would have more, but I decided to buy the wife something extra nice for her birthday this year. I've got $1200 to spend on a 308 bolt gun + optic and I'd like to get 150-200 rounds of ammo also. Would I be better of spending the extra ammo money on the gun and just shoot it less? Or is there a good starting point, that will allow me some trigger time? |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:02:59 PM EDT
[#40]
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:06:47 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, I'm pretty sure 100% of the citizens of Sarajevo in the mid 80's had zero inclination they would all live to see offensive engagement of human beings in their cities. Likely here? Probably not. Impossible? History says we're brewing up to exactly that kind of conflict, maybe worse. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This and moreover what mastrabatory fantasy do people envision actually necessitate offensive engagement of human beings at extended ranges.. Well, I'm pretty sure 100% of the citizens of Sarajevo in the mid 80's had zero inclination they would all live to see offensive engagement of human beings in their cities. Likely here? Probably not. Impossible? History says we're brewing up to exactly that kind of conflict, maybe worse. I dont disagree. But my free time is going into defensive handgun and carbine training with some basic medical stuff like sutures. I'd prefer to survive such an event rather then go looking for trouble as a combatant. It seems like a whole lotta folks see the trouble brewing as a chance to take back their country yet havent considered they are being manipulated into playing a role. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:08:28 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ruger American with an SWFA fixed 10x I was just going to post this, but good luck. My SWFA 10x has been pending since Black Friday. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:10:29 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 3rd world terrorist is how you view it, but many of them know the fundamentals which are far more important than the gear. Or get both.... |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:12:47 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hello sir, I'd like to get into the long range bolt gun game. I dont have very much expendable cash and I've been saving my fun money for the last 2 years. I would have more, but I decided to buy the wife something extra nice for her birthday this year. I've got $1200 to spend on a 308 bolt gun + optic and I'd like to get 150-200 rounds of ammo also. Would I be better of spending the extra ammo money on the gun and just shoot it less? Or is there a good starting point, that will allow me some trigger time? I am not teaching the class nor have I ever been a bolt gun aficionado. That is, if you're being serious. If you're being sarcastic, EAD. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:16:51 PM EDT
[#45]
Have only read to page three so far, but a lot of people think scopes just magically explode and stop working after a few rounds lol
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:17:23 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am not teaching the class nor have I ever been a bolt gun aficionado. That is, if you're being serious. If you're being sarcastic, EAD. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hello sir, I'd like to get into the long range bolt gun game. I dont have very much expendable cash and I've been saving my fun money for the last 2 years. I would have more, but I decided to buy the wife something extra nice for her birthday this year. I've got $1200 to spend on a 308 bolt gun + optic and I'd like to get 150-200 rounds of ammo also. Would I be better of spending the extra ammo money on the gun and just shoot it less? Or is there a good starting point, that will allow me some trigger time? I am not teaching the class nor have I ever been a bolt gun aficionado. That is, if you're being serious. If you're being sarcastic, EAD. I leave the dick eating to you  Point being, there is a valuable discussion to setting up a cheaper rifle. Theres value in running those rifles through a class and demonstrating their short comings. There are a lot of people who cant justify a 3k+ bolt gun. If it's not your class and you're not a bolt fun aficionado, why are you giving advice in this thread? |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:21:06 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I leave the dick eating to you Point being, there is a valuable discussion to setting up a cheaper rifle. Theres value in running those rifles through a class and demonstrating their short comings. There are a lot of people who cant justify a 3k+ bolt gun. If it's not your class and you're not a bolt fun aficionado, why are you giving advice in this thread? Why are you shitting on my post? Do I know you personally or something? I gave advice that the OP could use, or not, based on his GAF meter. Stop white knighting and read more. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:30:07 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are you shitting on my post? Do I know you personally or something? I gave advice that the OP could use, or not, based on his GAF meter. Stop white knighting and read more. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I leave the dick eating to you Point being, there is a valuable discussion to setting up a cheaper rifle. Theres value in running those rifles through a class and demonstrating their short comings. There are a lot of people who cant justify a 3k+ bolt gun. If it's not your class and you're not a bolt fun aficionado, why are you giving advice in this thread? Why are you shitting on my post? Do I know you personally or something? I gave advice that the OP could use, or not, based on his GAF meter. Stop white knighting and read more. I dont think I know you. But, maybe we've hung out in the same park restrooms? I wasnt originally shitting on your post. I picked your post randomly to make a point that $800 might be the most someone can afford, and that shouldn't remove them from the fun. I also posted, i think this class would be better as a video series and not a 1 off class. Your "EAD" comment was where I started to shit on your post
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:41:31 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have only read to page three so far, but a lot of people think scopes just magically explode and stop working after a few rounds lol It’s amazing what happens when you use stuff. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:47:33 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: smarmy "I'm not the bad guy here" shit click |
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