User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 6:55:23 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Or just get away from him. I mean how fast can a guy with one arm and one leg go in a wheelchair?He couldn't pepper spray the cripple? "It was close quarters in the area of the house," Silva said. "The officer was forced into an area where he had no way to get out." I've dealt with wheelchair psych patients in the hospital; they can be surprisingly fast. Possibly fast enough to get to the officer and depending on exactly what was a 'pen'; could be a good shoot. Going to give the officer the benefit of the doubt until all the facts are done.
He had ONE FUCKING ARM ! He could probably go in circles really fucking fast though 
How many arms do you think you need to stab someone? How do you go in a circle and stab some body at the same time. I've already explained it: thrust vectoring. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 6:56:39 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Maybe not, but there doesn't seem to be any indication that that was the case and there are other potential explanations like being unable to draw effectively due to being cornered or simply being slower on the draw than his partner. Of course, it's also possible that the cop that did the shooting just saw a guy making threats, closing on his partner, and attempting to stab him with something and acted accordingly without asking his partner if the guy actually had a knife. I'm confused now. Are you saying the officer that was cornered was facing the corner and not the nut in the wheelchair? Obviously. I don't have any fucking idea what you are talking about. I never even suggested that he was facing the corner. I was trying to figure out by what you said how the officer that did the shooting was able to see the threat, but the one that was actually cornered could not see the threat unless he wasn't looking at the guy. The guy only had one arm so it's safe to say the officer only had to look at one hand. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:01:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Quoted:
my big question here is the lack of escalating force. No pepper spray, no ASP, no Taser. I'm assuming the place was well lit, but I don't know that. The reason for going straight to the gun has to be given and defended right away. If the officer can explain and be backed up by witnesses and the investigation, then it's probably a good shoot. i just hope they don't hang the guy out to dry without a thorough analysis, for PR reasons. If he fucked up, well, he should get hammered. A guy had his partner cornered, was making threats, and attempted to stab him with something. The reaso for going straight to the gun is that only an idiot reacts to a percieved threat of deadly force by using a nonlethal approach. uh-huh. I'm sure if I just shot some guy in a wheelchair, armed with a ballpoint pen, the responding officers would be fist-bumping me and saying "good shoot, bro. Anything that gets you home safe tonight", and not "WTF? Why didn't you just knock him over? You're under arrest". |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:05:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Does LE training lean towards this approach now? I'd think a 'regular guy' could've done something different, but held under that constraint in which case he couldn't be blamed.
But since I got a Site Staff Veiled Threat the other day: Good Shoot, Good Shoot. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:06:35 PM EDT
[#5]
I hope the attorneys are lining up to file wrongful death lawsuits against the city and the cop. This shit needs to end. If 2 cops can't restrain a double amputee in a wheelchair armed with a pen without killing him then neither needs to be a cop. BOHICA Houston!
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:08:43 PM EDT
[#6]
If they tazed the dude in his wheel chair, and the chair was electric, would the chair do a sweet burnout in place??
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:11:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Again, I didn't say that. For all I know, he may have recognized it as a pen. Or he may have just frozen up. Or maybe he couldn't shoot without hitting bystanders. Or he might have had something else going on. You're talking about a situation that's being viewed from two very different angles, by two different people, that probably unfolded in under 5 seconds. My point was that you can't assume that the reason the cornered officer didn't shoot was that he knew there wasn't a threat, nor can it be reasonably assumed that the other officer should have assumed that there was not a threat because his partner didn't shoot the guy first. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Maybe not, but there doesn't seem to be any indication that that was the case and there are other potential explanations like being unable to draw effectively due to being cornered or simply being slower on the draw than his partner. Of course, it's also possible that the cop that did the shooting just saw a guy making threats, closing on his partner, and attempting to stab him with something and acted accordingly without asking his partner if the guy actually had a knife. I'm confused now. Are you saying the officer that was cornered was facing the corner and not the nut in the wheelchair? Obviously. I don't have any fucking idea what you are talking about. I never even suggested that he was facing the corner. I was trying to figure out by what you said how the officer that did the shooting was able to see the threat, but the one that was actually cornered could not see the threat unless he wasn't looking at the guy. The guy only had one arm so it's safe to say the officer only had to look at one hand. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:12:37 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Plenty, although to be fair, most of them didn't involve humans. I have a healthy dislike of getting hurt, but the last time someone pulled a knife on me, my reaction was not "draw down and shoot her in the face". Guess that means I'd make a shitty cop. Sounds like it. What the hell was your reaction to someone attacking you with a knife if it wasn't to respond with deadly force of your own? First, he wrote "pulled," not "attacked." I guess he prefers to assess the situation so as not to confuse "pulled" and "attacked." Yeah, or he prefers to plug in irrelevent experience where someone showed him a knife, presumably in a threatening manner, and compare it to a situation where someone actually was being attacked. Actually, he made a judgement call based on the situation and didn't shoot first and ask questions later. Are you seriously advocating NOT doing that? That's scary. I didn't advocate that anywhere. The situation that he's talking about is completely different from the one this thread is about. If he judged it not to be one that required deadly force, then that's great. If he'd thought that she was going to stab him and he still didn't think deadly force was appropriate, he'd be an idiot. If you think that a cop who shoots a hostile subject who he believe is about to stab his partner, based on the fact that that subject is hostile, has cornered his partner, is making threats, and is attempting to stab him with something, is "shooting first and asking questions later" then I don't know what to tell you. That's simply absurd. Not just "a subject," but a dude in a wheelchair with 1 arm and 1 leg. That's got to lower the need to go to deadly force a little. I will say that I don't think my partner getting a scrape on the arm with a PEN is reason to use deadly force. (I guess he could die of ink poisoning...) I may even be incline to RUN over and shove the dude out of the wheelchair before shots are fired. You guys act like this LEO was in a battle with Chuck Norris. THE LEO had on kevlar for God's sake, and probably a long sleeve shirt! And if he didn't have his body armor on, that IS a reason to fire someone! Not to mention the "perp" is in a wheelchair, so the odds of a head or neck shot should be SLIM as long as the officer is not 4'9"!
I DO think that the partner may have been best served going with pepper sray or maybe walking up and shoving the dude over... Seriously guys, unless you've been appointed as this cop's attorney, you may need to watch arbitrarily coming to the defense of this shoot, you may want to "check your compass." Please verify with yourself that you are out to see justice and you're not just trying to let someone off because they're a LEO so it HAS TO BE a good shoot. I highly respect police officers but I do demand that they make good decisions in cases like this, as all of us, INCLUDING OTHER OFFICERS, should. There are some people that shouldn't be in that line of work, as with ANY profession. And no, I don't think you have to be some HSLD, Delta SEAL Team 50, Vietnam vet with 40 knife kills on Charlie to make a decision here... I'm not saying that we should throw this cop in jail and throw away the key, but there better be a REALLY DAMN GOOD EXPLANATION for this. And, at this point, I honestly can't think of one. I'm open to hearing the resty of the story, though. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:14:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
my big question here is the lack of escalating force. No pepper spray, no ASP, no Taser. I'm assuming the place was well lit, but I don't know that. The reason for going straight to the gun has to be given and defended right away. If the officer can explain and be backed up by witnesses and the investigation, then it's probably a good shoot. i just hope they don't hang the guy out to dry without a thorough analysis, for PR reasons. If he fucked up, well, he should get hammered. A guy had his partner cornered, was making threats, and attempted to stab him with something. The reaso for going straight to the gun is that only an idiot reacts to a percieved threat of deadly force by using a nonlethal approach. So that's your first inclination is to kill somebody you get in a fight with? The cop in the corner might have been running out of options, but his partner had an abundance of them. Kind of fucked up that his first was lethal. Oh well, just another bad guy off the streets. If I think he's got a knife and he's trying to stab me or someone else, that's absolutely my first inclination. He had a pen. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:14:53 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Plenty, although to be fair, most of them didn't involve humans. I have a healthy dislike of getting hurt, but the last time someone pulled a knife on me, my reaction was not "draw down and shoot her in the face". Guess that means I'd make a shitty cop. Sounds like it. What the hell was your reaction to someone attacking you with a knife if it wasn't to respond with deadly force of your own? First, he wrote "pulled," not "attacked." I guess he prefers to assess the situation so as not to confuse "pulled" and "attacked." Yeah, or he prefers to plug in irrelevent experience where someone showed him a knife, presumably in a threatening manner, and compare it to a situation where someone actually was being attacked. Actually, he made a judgement call based on the situation and didn't shoot first and ask questions later. Are you seriously advocating NOT doing that? That's scary. I didn't advocate that anywhere. The situation that he's talking about is completely different from the one this thread is about. If he judged it not to be one that required deadly force, then that's great. If he'd thought that she was going to stab him and he still didn't think deadly force was appropriate, he'd be an idiot. If you think that a cop who shoots a hostile subject who he believe is about to stab his partner, based on the fact that that subject is hostile, has cornered his partner, is making threats, and is attempting to stab him with something, is "shooting first and asking questions later" then I don't know what to tell you. That's simply absurd. Not just "a subject," but a dude in a wheelchair with 1 arm and 1 leg. That's got to lower the need to go to deadly force a little. I will say that I don't think my partner getting a scrape on the arm with a PEN is reason to use deadly force. (I guess he could die of ink poisoning...) I may even be incline to RUN over and shove the dude out of the wheelchair before shots are fired. You guys act like this LEO was in a battle with Chuck Norris. THE LEO had on kevlar for God's sake, and probably a long sleeve shirt! And if he didn't have his body armor on, that IS a reason to fire someone! Not to mention the "perp" is in a wheelchair, so the odds of a head or neck shot should be SLIM as long as the officer is not 4'9"!I DO think that the partner may have been best served going with pepper sray or maybe walking up and shoving the dude over... Seriously guys, unless you've been appointed as this cop's attorney, you may need to watch arbitrarily coming to the defense of this shoot, you may want to "check your compass." Please verify with yourself that you are out to see justice and you're not just trying to let someone off because they're a LEO so it HAS TO BE a good shoot. I highly respect police officers but I do demand that they make good decisions in cases like this, as all of us, INCLUDING OTHER OFFICERS, should. There are some people that shouldn't be in that line of work, as with ANY profession. And no, I don't think you have to be some HSLD, Delta SEAL Team 50, Vietnam vet with 40 knife kills on Charlie to make a decision here... I'm not saying that we should throw this cop in jail and throw away the key, but there better be a REALLY DAMN GOOD EXPLANATION for this. And, at this point, I honestly can't think of one. I'm open to hearing the resty of the story, though. Want an explanation? Continuum of force. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:15:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
my big question here is the lack of escalating force. No pepper spray, no ASP, no Taser. I'm assuming the place was well lit, but I don't know that. The reason for going straight to the gun has to be given and defended right away. If the officer can explain and be backed up by witnesses and the investigation, then it's probably a good shoot. i just hope they don't hang the guy out to dry without a thorough analysis, for PR reasons. If he fucked up, well, he should get hammered. A guy had his partner cornered, was making threats, and attempted to stab him with something. The reaso for going straight to the gun is that only an idiot reacts to a percieved threat of deadly force by using a nonlethal approach. So that's your first inclination is to kill somebody you get in a fight with? The cop in the corner might have been running out of options, but his partner had an abundance of them. Kind of fucked up that his first was lethal. Oh well, just another bad guy off the streets. If I think he's got a knife and he's trying to stab me or someone else, that's absolutely my first inclination. He had a pen. But it could have been a penknife................. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:15:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Maybe in Texas. Hell, probably anywhere if you knew it was a pen and you shot him anyway and then admitted that to the police. Everywhere else though, shooting a guy who you think has a knife and is trying to stab you is justified use of deadly force, especially when you have a bunch of witnesses who say "yep, he cornered him, threatened him, and then tried to stab him with something". Quoted: Quoted: my big question here is the lack of escalating force. No pepper spray, no ASP, no Taser. I'm assuming the place was well lit, but I don't know that. The reason for going straight to the gun has to be given and defended right away. If the officer can explain and be backed up by witnesses and the investigation, then it's probably a good shoot. i just hope they don't hang the guy out to dry without a thorough analysis, for PR reasons. If he fucked up, well, he should get hammered. A guy had his partner cornered, was making threats, and attempted to stab him with something. The reaso for going straight to the gun is that only an idiot reacts to a percieved threat of deadly force by using a nonlethal approach. uh-huh. I'm sure if I just shot some guy in a wheelchair, armed with a ballpoint pen, the responding officers would be fist-bumping me and saying "good shoot, bro. Anything that gets you home safe tonight", and not "WTF? Why didn't you just knock him over? You're under arrest". |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:17:59 PM EDT
[#13]
 |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:19:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
...snip...quote] I didn't advocate that anywhere. The situation that he's talking about is completely different from the one this thread is about. If he judged it not to be one that required deadly force, then that's great. If he'd thought that she was going to stab him and he still didn't think deadly force was appropriate, he'd be an idiot. If you think that a cop who shoots a hostile subject who he believe is about to stab his partner, based on the fact that that subject is hostile, has cornered his partner, is making threats, and is attempting to stab him with something, is "shooting first and asking questions later" then I don't know what to tell you. That's simply absurd. Not just "a subject," but a dude in a wheelchair with 1 arm and 1 leg. That's got to lower the need to go to deadly force a little. I will say that I don't think my partner getting a scrape on the arm with a PEN is reason to use deadly force. (I guess he could die of ink poisoning...) I may even be incline to RUN over and shove the dude out of the wheelchair before shots are fired. You guys act like this LEO was in a battle with Chuck Norris. THE LEO had on kevlar for God's sake, and probably a long sleeve shirt! And if he didn't have his body armor on, that IS a reason to fire someone! Not to mention the "perp" is in a wheelchair, so the odds of a head or neck shot should be SLIM as long as the officer is not 4'9"!
I DO think that the partner may have been best served going with pepper sray or maybe walking up and shoving the dude over... Seriously guys, unless you've been appointed as this cop's attorney, you may need to watch arbitrarily coming to the defense of this shoot, you may want to "check your compass." Please verify with yourself that you are out to see justice and you're not just trying to let someone off because they're a LEO so it HAS TO BE a good shoot. I highly respect police officers but I do demand that they make good decisions in cases like this, as all of us, INCLUDING OTHER OFFICERS, should. There are some people that shouldn't be in that line of work, as with ANY profession. And no, I don't think you have to be some HSLD, Delta SEAL Team 50, Vietnam vet with 40 knife kills on Charlie to make a decision here... I'm not saying that we should throw this cop in jail and throw away the key, but there better be a REALLY DAMN GOOD EXPLANATION for this. And, at this point, I honestly can't think of one. I'm open to hearing the resty of the story, though. Prepare your anus for 2 hypotheticals, 1 strawman, and a healthy dose of self-righteousness in the responses. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:20:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
my big question here is the lack of escalating force. No pepper spray, no ASP, no Taser. I'm assuming the place was well lit, but I don't know that. The reason for going straight to the gun has to be given and defended right away. If the officer can explain and be backed up by witnesses and the investigation, then it's probably a good shoot. i just hope they don't hang the guy out to dry without a thorough analysis, for PR reasons. If he fucked up, well, he should get hammered. A guy had his partner cornered, was making threats, and attempted to stab him with something. The reaso for going straight to the gun is that only an idiot reacts to a percieved threat of deadly force by using a nonlethal approach. So that's your first inclination is to kill somebody you get in a fight with? The cop in the corner might have been running out of options, but his partner had an abundance of them. Kind of fucked up that his first was lethal. Oh well, just another bad guy off the streets. If I think he's got a knife and he's trying to stab me or someone else, that's absolutely my first inclination. He had a pen. But it could have been a penknife................. Or an aligator. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:21:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: my big question here is the lack of escalating force. No pepper spray, no ASP, no Taser. I'm assuming the place was well lit, but I don't know that. The reason for going straight to the gun has to be given and defended right away. If the officer can explain and be backed up by witnesses and the investigation, then it's probably a good shoot. i just hope they don't hang the guy out to dry without a thorough analysis, for PR reasons. If he fucked up, well, he should get hammered. A guy had his partner cornered, was making threats, and attempted to stab him with something. The reaso for going straight to the gun is that only an idiot reacts to a percieved threat of deadly force by using a nonlethal approach. So that's your first inclination is to kill somebody you get in a fight with? The cop in the corner might have been running out of options, but his partner had an abundance of them. Kind of fucked up that his first was lethal. Oh well, just another bad guy off the streets. If I think he's got a knife and he's trying to stab me or someone else, that's absolutely my first inclination. He had a pen. And if the cop recognized that it was a pen and shot him anyway just for the hell of it, then this wouldn't apply at all, would it? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:22:13 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Plenty, although to be fair, most of them didn't involve humans. I have a healthy dislike of getting hurt, but the last time someone pulled a knife on me, my reaction was not "draw down and shoot her in the face". Guess that means I'd make a shitty cop. Sounds like it. What the hell was your reaction to someone attacking you with a knife if it wasn't to respond with deadly force of your own? First, he wrote "pulled," not "attacked." I guess he prefers to assess the situation so as not to confuse "pulled" and "attacked." Yeah, or he prefers to plug in irrelevent experience where someone showed him a knife, presumably in a threatening manner, and compare it to a situation where someone actually was being attacked. Actually, he made a judgement call based on the situation and didn't shoot first and ask questions later. Are you seriously advocating NOT doing that? That's scary. I didn't advocate that anywhere. The situation that he's talking about is completely different from the one this thread is about. If he judged it not to be one that required deadly force, then that's great. If he'd thought that she was going to stab him and he still didn't think deadly force was appropriate, he'd be an idiot. If you think that a cop who shoots a hostile subject who he believe is about to stab his partner, based on the fact that that subject is hostile, has cornered his partner, is making threats, and is attempting to stab him with something, is "shooting first and asking questions later" then I don't know what to tell you. That's simply absurd. Not just "a subject," but a dude in a wheelchair with 1 arm and 1 leg. That's got to lower the need to go to deadly force a little. I will say that I don't think my partner getting a scrape on the arm with a PEN is reason to use deadly force. (I guess he could die of ink poisoning...) I may even be incline to RUN over and shove the dude out of the wheelchair before shots are fired. You guys act like this LEO was in a battle with Chuck Norris. THE LEO had on kevlar for God's sake, and probably a long sleeve shirt! And if he didn't have his body armor on, that IS a reason to fire someone! Not to mention the "perp" is in a wheelchair, so the odds of a head or neck shot should be SLIM as long as the officer is not 4'9"!
I DO think that the partner may have been best served going with pepper sray or maybe walking up and shoving the dude over... Seriously guys, unless you've been appointed as this cop's attorney, you may need to watch arbitrarily coming to the defense of this shoot, you may want to "check your compass." Please verify with yourself that you are out to see justice and you're not just trying to let someone off because they're a LEO so it HAS TO BE a good shoot. I highly respect police officers but I do demand that they make good decisions in cases like this, as all of us, INCLUDING OTHER OFFICERS, should. There are some people that shouldn't be in that line of work, as with ANY profession. And no, I don't think you have to be some HSLD, Delta SEAL Team 50, Vietnam vet with 40 knife kills on Charlie to make a decision here... I'm not saying that we should throw this cop in jail and throw away the key, but there better be a REALLY DAMN GOOD EXPLANATION for this. And, at this point, I honestly can't think of one. I'm open to hearing the resty of the story, though. Want an explanation? Continuum of force. Then we have bigger problems if our officers shoot a dude in a wheelchair because some piece of paper says then can... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:22:27 PM EDT
[#18]
Used their functioning legs????
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:25:39 PM EDT
[#19]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:28:44 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
my big question here is the lack of escalating force. No pepper spray, no ASP, no Taser. I'm assuming the place was well lit, but I don't know that. The reason for going straight to the gun has to be given and defended right away. If the officer can explain and be backed up by witnesses and the investigation, then it's probably a good shoot. i just hope they don't hang the guy out to dry without a thorough analysis, for PR reasons. If he fucked up, well, he should get hammered. A guy had his partner cornered, was making threats, and attempted to stab him with something. The reaso for going straight to the gun is that only an idiot reacts to a percieved threat of deadly force by using a nonlethal approach. So that's your first inclination is to kill somebody you get in a fight with? The cop in the corner might have been running out of options, but his partner had an abundance of them. Kind of fucked up that his first was lethal. Oh well, just another bad guy off the streets. If I think he's got a knife and he's trying to stab me or someone else, that's absolutely my first inclination. He had a pen. And if the cop recognized that it was a pen and shot him anyway just for the hell of it, then this wouldn't apply at all, would it? You sure do have a lot of "ifs" in your responses. So I'm going to throw one in for good measure. Let's say IF the cop knew it was a pen and shot the 1 armed, 1 legged man in a wheelchair instead of knocking him over or bonking him on the head (because he wasn't in danger and was free to move). He's just realized he's fucked himself over in a major way. Does he tell his boss "i knew he had a pen, but I shot anyway" or does he say, with his partners backup "I saw him swinging something, it looked like a big rambo knife! I was in fear for my partner's life!" |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:28:51 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
my big question here is the lack of escalating force. No pepper spray, no ASP, no Taser. I'm assuming the place was well lit, but I don't know that. The reason for going straight to the gun has to be given and defended right away. If the officer can explain and be backed up by witnesses and the investigation, then it's probably a good shoot. i just hope they don't hang the guy out to dry without a thorough analysis, for PR reasons. If he fucked up, well, he should get hammered. A guy had his partner cornered, was making threats, and attempted to stab him with something. The reaso for going straight to the gun is that only an idiot reacts to a percieved threat of deadly force by using a nonlethal approach. So that's your first inclination is to kill somebody you get in a fight with? The cop in the corner might have been running out of options, but his partner had an abundance of them. Kind of fucked up that his first was lethal. Oh well, just another bad guy off the streets. If I think he's got a knife and he's trying to stab me or someone else, that's absolutely my first inclination. He had a pen. And if the cop recognized that it was a pen and shot him anyway just for the hell of it, then this wouldn't apply at all, would it? So you're telling me, by your statement, that you think that if a 1 armed, 1 legged, wheelchair bound man is coming at your friend yelling with an object, that you don't verify, in his hand is reason to shoot someone? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:30:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Well that explains it!
Russian girls can fly I found proof. 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZwbwweF_WQ
Joe Peci was raging like a one-legged man in an ass kicking contest. He'd be much deadlier if he didn't have both his arms 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:31:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
my big question here is the lack of escalating force. No pepper spray, no ASP, no Taser. I'm assuming the place was well lit, but I don't know that. The reason for going straight to the gun has to be given and defended right away. If the officer can explain and be backed up by witnesses and the investigation, then it's probably a good shoot. i just hope they don't hang the guy out to dry without a thorough analysis, for PR reasons. If he fucked up, well, he should get hammered. A guy had his partner cornered, was making threats, and attempted to stab him with something. The reaso for going straight to the gun is that only an idiot reacts to a percieved threat of deadly force by using a nonlethal approach. So that's your first inclination is to kill somebody you get in a fight with? The cop in the corner might have been running out of options, but his partner had an abundance of them. Kind of fucked up that his first was lethal. Oh well, just another bad guy off the streets. If I think he's got a knife and he's trying to stab me or someone else, that's absolutely my first inclination. He had a pen. And if the cop recognized that it was a pen and shot him anyway just for the hell of it, then this wouldn't apply at all, would it? So you're telling me, by your statement, that you think that if a 1 armed, 1 legged, wheelchair bound man is coming at your friend yelling with an object, that you don't verify, in his hand is reason to shoot someone? If it is a long thin metallic object and he is making a stabbing motion with it, yes. Its reasonable to believe its a stabbing weapon of some kind, good shoot. Not really any different that shooting someone who is pointing a "gun" at you that later turns out to be a starter pistol, Airsoft or BB gun. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:32:27 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well that explains it!
Russian girls can fly I found proof.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZwbwweF_WQ
Joe Peci was raging like a one-legged man in an ass kicking contest. He'd be much deadlier if he didn't have both his arms This post wins.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:35:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
my big question here is the lack of escalating force. No pepper spray, no ASP, no Taser. I'm assuming the place was well lit, but I don't know that. The reason for going straight to the gun has to be given and defended right away. If the officer can explain and be backed up by witnesses and the investigation, then it's probably a good shoot. i just hope they don't hang the guy out to dry without a thorough analysis, for PR reasons. If he fucked up, well, he should get hammered. A guy had his partner cornered, was making threats, and attempted to stab him with something. The reaso for going straight to the gun is that only an idiot reacts to a percieved threat of deadly force by using a nonlethal approach. So that's your first inclination is to kill somebody you get in a fight with? The cop in the corner might have been running out of options, but his partner had an abundance of them. Kind of fucked up that his first was lethal. Oh well, just another bad guy off the streets. If I think he's got a knife and he's trying to stab me or someone else, that's absolutely my first inclination. He had a pen. And if the cop recognized that it was a pen and shot him anyway just for the hell of it, then this wouldn't apply at all, would it? So you're telling me, by your statement, that you think that if a 1 armed, 1 legged, wheelchair bound man is coming at your friend yelling with an object, that you don't verify, in his hand is reason to shoot someone? I had the chance to shoot a couple kids once in Iraq, one was pointing an airsoft at me and the other a pipe on his shoulder. We were driving and I had a split second to make the decision. It was war time, I have full authority to blow those kids' heads off, yet I didn't because I recognized what they were holding. Is it too much to ask a police officer do the same here? ETA: lol how prophetic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:37:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: Quoted: Want an explanation? Continuum of force. Then we have bigger problems if our officers shoot a dude in a wheelchair because some piece of paper says then can... You are not familiar with the concept I take it? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:39:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Damn, I hate having to go through the long ones and hit every point.
Quoted: Not just "a subject," but a dude in a wheelchair with 1 arm and 1 leg. That's got to lower the need to go to deadly force a little. Only if you handle it before he's within reach and trying to stab you, which clearly did not happen here. I will say that I don't think my partner getting a scrape on the arm with a PEN is reason to use deadly force. (I guess he could die of ink poisoning...) Yeah, but for this to matter, you have to assume that the cop recognized that it was just a pen and just shot the guy anyway, which would put a whole new face on things. I may even be incline to RUN over and shove the dude out of the wheelchair before shots are fired. You guys act like this LEO was in a battle with Chuck Norris. THE LEO had on kevlar for God's sake, and probably a long sleeve shirt! And if he didn't have his body armor on, that IS a reason to fire someone! Not to mention the "perp" is in a wheelchair, so the odds of a head or neck shot should be SLIM as long as the officer is not 4'9"! Body armor only covers a limited amount of body surface area, and most of it is above the line of sight and likely striking range of a guy in a wheelchair. I guess that he could just hope not to get stabbed in the dick, balls, femoral artery, etc., but I'd rather them not have to do that.I DO think that the partner may have been best served going with pepper sray or maybe walking up and shoving the dude over...Would have been great if they'd done that earlier. When the guy's in stabbing range and trying to stab you, it's too late to pepper spray him. Seriously guys, unless you've been appointed as this cop's attorney, you may need to watch arbitrarily coming to the defense of this shoot, you may want to "check your compass." Please verify with yourself that you are out to see justice and you're not just trying to let someone off because they're a LEO so it HAS TO BE a good shoot. I highly respect police officers but I do demand that they make good decisions in cases like this, as all of us, INCLUDING OTHER OFFICERS, should. There are some people that shouldn't be in that line of work, as with ANY profession. I don't think that it has to be a good shoot just because an LEO is involved. Far from it. However, I don't see any justice in expecting them to be able to identify a pen when some hostile asshole has him cornered with it and is trying to stab him and it's a reasonable assumption on the cop's part that he has a knife. And no, I don't think you have to be some HSLD, Delta SEAL Team 50, Vietnam vet with 40 knife kills on Charlie to make a decision here... I'm not saying that we should throw this cop in jail and throw away the key, but there better be a REALLY DAMN GOOD EXPLANATION for this. And, at this point, I honestly can't think of one. I'm open to hearing the resty of the story, though. He thought that the guy had a knife and was about to stab his partner, who had no avenue of escape. Do you really think that that isn't a good enough reason for a cop to shoot an aggressive attacker? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:39:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
my big question here is the lack of escalating force. No pepper spray, no ASP, no Taser. I'm assuming the place was well lit, but I don't know that. The reason for going straight to the gun has to be given and defended right away. If the officer can explain and be backed up by witnesses and the investigation, then it's probably a good shoot. i just hope they don't hang the guy out to dry without a thorough analysis, for PR reasons. If he fucked up, well, he should get hammered. A guy had his partner cornered, was making threats, and attempted to stab him with something. The reaso for going straight to the gun is that only an idiot reacts to a percieved threat of deadly force by using a nonlethal approach. So that's your first inclination is to kill somebody you get in a fight with? The cop in the corner might have been running out of options, but his partner had an abundance of them. Kind of fucked up that his first was lethal. Oh well, just another bad guy off the streets. If I think he's got a knife and he's trying to stab me or someone else, that's absolutely my first inclination. He had a pen. And if the cop recognized that it was a pen and shot him anyway just for the hell of it, then this wouldn't apply at all, would it? So you're telling me, by your statement, that you think that if a 1 armed, 1 legged, wheelchair bound man is coming at your friend yelling with an object, that you don't verify, in his hand is reason to shoot someone? I had the chance to shoot a couple kids once in Iraq, one was pointing an airsoft at me and the other a pipe on his shoulder. We were driving and I had a split second to make the decision. It was war time, I have full authority to blow those kids' heads off, yet I didn't because I recognized what they were holding. Is it too much to ask a police officer do the same here? ETA: lol how prophetic. I wouldnt ask you not to shoot in such a situation. I certainly wouldnt demand you not shoot in such a situation. Even though you're in an armored vehicle with a helmet, body armor and rifle plates with the full might of the US military available as back up. So why would I demand two cops on foot with soft body armor alone not shoot in those sistation? That you chose to risk your life with such hesitation does not mean we must demand the same of others who are lessor equiped |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:41:20 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
my big question here is the lack of escalating force. No pepper spray, no ASP, no Taser. I'm assuming the place was well lit, but I don't know that. The reason for going straight to the gun has to be given and defended right away. If the officer can explain and be backed up by witnesses and the investigation, then it's probably a good shoot. i just hope they don't hang the guy out to dry without a thorough analysis, for PR reasons. If he fucked up, well, he should get hammered. A guy had his partner cornered, was making threats, and attempted to stab him with something. The reaso for going straight to the gun is that only an idiot reacts to a percieved threat of deadly force by using a nonlethal approach. So that's your first inclination is to kill somebody you get in a fight with? The cop in the corner might have been running out of options, but his partner had an abundance of them. Kind of fucked up that his first was lethal. Oh well, just another bad guy off the streets. If I think he's got a knife and he's trying to stab me or someone else, that's absolutely my first inclination. He had a pen. And if the cop recognized that it was a pen and shot him anyway just for the hell of it, then this wouldn't apply at all, would it? So you're telling me, by your statement, that you think that if a 1 armed, 1 legged, wheelchair bound man is coming at your friend yelling with an object, that you don't verify, in his hand is reason to shoot someone? If it is a long thin metallic object and he is making a stabbing motion with it, yes. Its reasonable to believe its a stabbing weapon of some kind, good shoot. Not really any different that shooting someone who is pointing a "gun" at you that later turns out to be a starter pistol, Airsoft or BB gun. If you can't see the difference between a person in a wheelchair with one arm and one leg holding a non-projectile ROLLING at you and someone getting shot because they have a gun-like object, then you need to log off and call someone for help. It's time. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:42:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: I had the chance to shoot a couple kids once in Iraq, one was pointing an airsoft at me and the other a pipe on his shoulder. We were driving and I had a split second to make the decision. It was war time, I have full authority to blow those kids' heads off, yet I didn't because I recognized what they were holding. Is it too much to ask a police officer do the same here? ETA: lol how prophetic. How long did it take you to ID they were airsoft and a pipe? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:44:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
my big question here is the lack of escalating force. No pepper spray, no ASP, no Taser. I'm assuming the place was well lit, but I don't know that. The reason for going straight to the gun has to be given and defended right away. If the officer can explain and be backed up by witnesses and the investigation, then it's probably a good shoot. i just hope they don't hang the guy out to dry without a thorough analysis, for PR reasons. If he fucked up, well, he should get hammered. A guy had his partner cornered, was making threats, and attempted to stab him with something. The reaso for going straight to the gun is that only an idiot reacts to a percieved threat of deadly force by using a nonlethal approach. So that's your first inclination is to kill somebody you get in a fight with? The cop in the corner might have been running out of options, but his partner had an abundance of them. Kind of fucked up that his first was lethal. Oh well, just another bad guy off the streets. If I think he's got a knife and he's trying to stab me or someone else, that's absolutely my first inclination. He had a pen. And if the cop recognized that it was a pen and shot him anyway just for the hell of it, then this wouldn't apply at all, would it? So you're telling me, by your statement, that you think that if a 1 armed, 1 legged, wheelchair bound man is coming at your friend yelling with an object, that you don't verify, in his hand is reason to shoot someone? I had the chance to shoot a couple kids once in Iraq, one was pointing an airsoft at me and the other a pipe on his shoulder. We were driving and I had a split second to make the decision. It was war time, I have full authority to blow those kids' heads off, yet I didn't because I recognized what they were holding. Is it too much to ask a police officer do the same here? ETA: lol how prophetic. I wouldnt ask you not to shoot in such a situation. I certainly wouldnt demand you not shoot in such a situation. Even though you're in an armored vehicle with a helmet, body armor and rifle plates with the full might of the US military available as back up. So why would I demand two cops on foot with soft body armor alone not shoot in those sistation? That you chose to risk your life with such hesitation does not mean we must demand the same of others who are lessor equiped I had no body armor with plates. A basic flak vest was all I was given because we were at the end of the supply chain. We had no radios to call in for an airstrike. I was not in an armored vehicle. It didn't even have fucking doors. If this had hesitated just a second longer he might have been able to handle the situation, provided he didn't just want to blow that mean old man away for spite. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:44:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: my big question here is the lack of escalating force. No pepper spray, no ASP, no Taser. I'm assuming the place was well lit, but I don't know that. The reason for going straight to the gun has to be given and defended right away. If the officer can explain and be backed up by witnesses and the investigation, then it's probably a good shoot. i just hope they don't hang the guy out to dry without a thorough analysis, for PR reasons. If he fucked up, well, he should get hammered. A guy had his partner cornered, was making threats, and attempted to stab him with something. The reaso for going straight to the gun is that only an idiot reacts to a percieved threat of deadly force by using a nonlethal approach. So that's your first inclination is to kill somebody you get in a fight with? The cop in the corner might have been running out of options, but his partner had an abundance of them. Kind of fucked up that his first was lethal. Oh well, just another bad guy off the streets. If I think he's got a knife and he's trying to stab me or someone else, that's absolutely my first inclination. He had a pen. And if the cop recognized that it was a pen and shot him anyway just for the hell of it, then this wouldn't apply at all, would it? So you're telling me, by your statement, that you think that if a 1 armed, 1 legged, wheelchair bound man is coming at your friend yelling with an object, that you don't verify, in his hand is reason to shoot someone? If that 1 armed, 1 legged, wheelchair bound man has him cornered, is "within inches to a foot" of him, is trying to stab him with it, and I think it's a knife, then yes, that's a reason to shoot him. This shit ain't rocket science. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:47:24 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Go back and read the article. He was done rolling. He was "within inches to a foot" of the cop and trying to stab him with it. If you can't see the difference between a person in a wheelchair with one arm and one leg holding a non-projectile ROLLING at you and someone getting shot because they have a gun-like object, then you need to log off and call someone for help. It's time. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:47:50 PM EDT
[#34]
ROFL that's the other thing.
If the news story read "Officer stabbed in femoral artery with pen by one armed, one legged man in wheel chair" everyone would be all "Why didn't they shoot him!".... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:49:01 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I had the chance to shoot a couple kids once in Iraq, one was pointing an airsoft at me and the other a pipe on his shoulder. We were driving and I had a split second to make the decision. It was war time, I have full authority to blow those kids' heads off, yet I didn't because I recognized what they were holding. Is it too much to ask a police officer do the same here? ETA: lol how prophetic. How long did it take you to ID they were airsoft and a pipe? About half a second, if that. I saw them out of the corner of my eye, snapped back with my rifle raised, bead on the smaller one's body, glanced over to see through the pipe so knew even if it was an RPG it wasn't loaed. The kid with the pistol was probably 6, the one with the pipe was taller. No orange tip on the pistol. I thought of firing over their heads as a warning shot, but decided not to for fear of hitting an innocent beyond them. I've relived that scene many times. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:50:30 PM EDT
[#36]
I have said it many time if oj would have run from the cops in Texas he would have never made the jail.
When a houston Texas cop tells you to do something you better damn well do it. Dont fuckin ask questions just do what your told. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:54:34 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: I had the chance to shoot a couple kids once in Iraq, one was pointing an airsoft at me and the other a pipe on his shoulder. We were driving and I had a split second to make the decision. It was war time, I have full authority to blow those kids' heads off, yet I didn't because I recognized what they were holding. Is it too much to ask a police officer do the same here? ETA: lol how prophetic. That's really the key here, isn't it? You didn't shoot them because you recognized that they weren't a threat. You still could have shot them and gotten away with it, but you'd have been a murderer. What if you hadn't recognized that one was a pipe and the other was a toy? Would you have assumed that they still weren't a threat just because it was kids holding them and not the Fedayeen? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:54:58 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Damn, I hate having to go through the long ones and hit every point. Quoted:
Not just "a subject," but a dude in a wheelchair with 1 arm and 1 leg. That's got to lower the need to go to deadly force a little. Only if you handle it before he's within reach and trying to stab you, which clearly did not happen here. I will say that I don't think my partner getting a scrape on the arm with a PEN is reason to use deadly force. (I guess he could die of ink poisoning...) Yeah, but for this to matter, you have to assume that the cop recognized that it was just a pen and just shot the guy anyway, which would put a whole new face on things. I may even be incline to RUN over and shove the dude out of the wheelchair before shots are fired. You guys act like this LEO was in a battle with Chuck Norris. THE LEO had on kevlar for God's sake, and probably a long sleeve shirt! And if he didn't have his body armor on, that IS a reason to fire someone! Not to mention the "perp" is in a wheelchair, so the odds of a head or neck shot should be SLIM as long as the officer is not 4'9"! Body armor only covers a limited amount of body surface area, and most of it is above the line of sight and likely striking range of a guy in a wheelchair. I guess that he could just hope not to get stabbed in the dick, balls, femoral artery, etc., but I'd rather them not have to do that.
I DO think that the partner may have been best served going with pepper sray or maybe walking up and shoving the dude over...Would have been great if they'd done that earlier. When the guy's in stabbing range and trying to stab you, it's too late to pepper spray him. Seriously guys, unless you've been appointed as this cop's attorney, you may need to watch arbitrarily coming to the defense of this shoot, you may want to "check your compass." Please verify with yourself that you are out to see justice and you're not just trying to let someone off because they're a LEO so it HAS TO BE a good shoot. I highly respect police officers but I do demand that they make good decisions in cases like this, as all of us, INCLUDING OTHER OFFICERS, should. There are some people that shouldn't be in that line of work, as with ANY profession. I don't think that it has to be a good shoot just because an LEO is involved. Far from it. However, I don't see any justice in expecting them to be able to identify a pen when some hostile asshole has him cornered with it and is trying to stab him and it's a reasonable assumption on the cop's part that he has a knife. And no, I don't think you have to be some HSLD, Delta SEAL Team 50, Vietnam vet with 40 knife kills on Charlie to make a decision here... I'm not saying that we should throw this cop in jail and throw away the key, but there better be a REALLY DAMN GOOD EXPLANATION for this. And, at this point, I honestly can't think of one. I'm open to hearing the resty of the story, though. He thought that the guy had a knife and was about to stab his partner, who had no avenue of escape. Do you really think that that isn't a good enough reason for a cop to shoot an aggressive attacker? Ok. Let me make this a little clearer. If two of you cannot protect yourself from a man in a wheelchair with a fucking pen, that YOU LET SNEAK UP AND CORNER YOU, then you shouldn't be allowed anywhere NEAR a police uniform. With that said, you guys win. Continue to believe this is perfectly fine. I'm not going to argue why two full grown men in body armor with weapons should be able to subdue a man physically crippled to this extent without using deadly force. You have worn me out. Unless something new comes out on this, I stand by my comments. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:55:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
ROFL that's the other thing. If the news story read "Officer stabbed in femoral artery with pen by one armed, one legged man in wheel chair" everyone would be all "Why didn't they shoot him!".... If the news story had read, "Officer wrestles deadly PEN away from crazy double amputee", I wouldn't have bothered posting it. Even I have some standards. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:56:17 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I had the chance to shoot a couple kids once in Iraq, one was pointing an airsoft at me and the other a pipe on his shoulder. We were driving and I had a split second to make the decision. It was war time, I have full authority to blow those kids' heads off, yet I didn't because I recognized what they were holding. Is it too much to ask a police officer do the same here? ETA: lol how prophetic. That's really the key here, isn't it? You didn't shoot them because you recognized that they weren't a threat. You still could have shot them and gotten away with it, but you'd have been a murderer. What if you hadn't recognized that one was a pipe and the other was a toy? Would you have assumed that they still weren't a threat just because it was kids holding them and not the Fedayeen? Then I would be in the same position your cop is in now 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:56:43 PM EDT
[#41]
The apologists will never stop. This idiot could have shot a six year old with a squirt gun and they would crawl to his defense.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:57:28 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
They could have just put some chocks under the wheels, called in SWAT and waited the guy out. This was just another unjustified attack on innocent citizenry that we've come to expect from the continual militarization of police. This all started under Bush.
On a more serious note, this situation pretty much sucks for all involved, especially the guy in the wheelchair.
I know I shouldn't have, but I did. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:59:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
The apologists will never stop. This idiot could have shot a six year old with a squirt gun and they would crawl to his defense. Justified if loaded with lemonade.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:59:20 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I had the chance to shoot a couple kids once in Iraq, one was pointing an airsoft at me and the other a pipe on his shoulder. We were driving and I had a split second to make the decision. It was war time, I have full authority to blow those kids' heads off, yet I didn't because I recognized what they were holding. Is it too much to ask a police officer do the same here? ETA: lol how prophetic. How long did it take you to ID they were airsoft and a pipe? About half a second, if that. I saw them out of the corner of my eye, snapped back with my rifle raised, bead on the smaller one's body, glanced over to see through the pipe so knew even if it was an RPG it wasn't loaed. The kid with the pistol was probably 6, the one with the pipe was taller. No orange tip on the pistol. I thought of firing over their heads as a warning shot, but decided not to for fear of hitting an innocent beyond them. I've relived that scene many times.  Shitty situation. My buddy almost had to smoke a kid who made off with a trash bag. Didn't know if it was the bag of trash, or a bag of maps. Yelled for the kid to stop in Arabic, then racked a round and fortunately the kid was close enough to hear it, turned, looked, dropped the bag and ran off. It was the bad of trash.  Always weighed pretty heavy on him. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 8:00:33 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I had the chance to shoot a couple kids once in Iraq, one was pointing an airsoft at me and the other a pipe on his shoulder. We were driving and I had a split second to make the decision. It was war time, I have full authority to blow those kids' heads off, yet I didn't because I recognized what they were holding. Is it too much to ask a police officer do the same here? ETA: lol how prophetic. How long did it take you to ID they were airsoft and a pipe? About half a second, if that. I saw them out of the corner of my eye, snapped back with my rifle raised, bead on the smaller one's body, glanced over to see through the pipe so knew even if it was an RPG it wasn't loaed. The kid with the pistol was probably 6, the one with the pipe was taller. No orange tip on the pistol. I thought of firing over their heads as a warning shot, but decided not to for fear of hitting an innocent beyond them. I've relived that scene many times. I think you did the right thing imo(doesn't mean much if anything since I've never been in such a situation and hope I never am). |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 8:08:34 PM EDT
[#46]
There's a big difference between a movie and reality. Look, you will never convince me that a one armed guy with a pen poses a sufficient threat to justify the use of deadly force. I'm willing to concede that someone who watches too many movies and has never been stabbed by a pen will make a different threat assessment. As long as I'm never on a jury that has to decide whether such a reaction is justified, the point is moot. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 8:14:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Fair enough, although I disagree on whether someone could cause you serious harm by stabbing you with a pen at crotch level. There's a big difference between a movie and reality. Look, you will never convince me that a one armed guy with a pen poses a sufficient threat to justify the use of deadly force. I'm willing to concede that someone who watches too many movies and has never been stabbed by a pen will make a different threat assessment. As long as I'm never on a jury that has to decide whether such a reaction is justified, the point is moot. Seriously though, don't any of you guys think it's likely that they weren't able to identify it as a pen when he was swinging it and trying to stab them with it? There are several other common weapons that a pen could be mistaken for that would certainly fuck you up. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 8:18:26 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I had the chance to shoot a couple kids once in Iraq, one was pointing an airsoft at me and the other a pipe on his shoulder. We were driving and I had a split second to make the decision. It was war time, I have full authority to blow those kids' heads off, yet I didn't because I recognized what they were holding. Is it too much to ask a police officer do the same here? ETA: lol how prophetic. How long did it take you to ID they were airsoft and a pipe? About half a second, if that. I saw them out of the corner of my eye, snapped back with my rifle raised, bead on the smaller one's body, glanced over to see through the pipe so knew even if it was an RPG it wasn't loaed. The kid with the pistol was probably 6, the one with the pipe was taller. No orange tip on the pistol. I thought of firing over their heads as a warning shot, but decided not to for fear of hitting an innocent beyond them. I've relived that scene many times. I think you did the right thing imo(doesn't mean much if anything since I've never been in such a situation and hope I never am). It wasn't a hard decision. Freaked me the fuck out and still does sometimes, but I would like to think anyone would do the same thing. (I know I'm wrong) All it was was identifying the threat, then taking action or standing down. Plenty of police officers do that every day in this country, what sucks is the covering for those who don't. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 8:22:32 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
DId...........the officer get home safe ? Officer Safety is the most important thing. They guy had a weapon. Good Shoot. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2012 8:26:13 PM EDT
[#50]
Fucking pussy.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
