Since Cobradriver, psyops and the rest of the YASBY VIP's have decided to sanction this one with their presence, I guess it must be the official Part 6.  



I have a feeling we will get CT back eventually.  



I'm going to preserve my serenity and membership by considering that a week-long vacation from this place will give him time to accomplish important personal projects.  

About this methane thing.

I have no links, and no facts.

Just a few words I heard when I turned on the radio, but maybe this will help you search.  I'm searching now, but having trouble.

Seems as if sometime in the recent past, and huge methane bubble erupted from some large body of water, floated on to land, and killed a few thousand folks.

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure if the methane killed them or the tsunami-like wave did them in.

Edit:

I hate posting stuff without links to support it, but I can't find any - will get back to this tomorrow.

It wasn't methane, it was CO2





A pocket of magma lies beneath the lake and leaks carbon dioxide (CO₂) into the water, changing it into carbonic acid. Nyos is one of only three known lakes to be saturated with carbon dioxide in this way, the others being Lake Monoun, 100 km (62 mi) away SSE, and Lake Kivu in Rwanda. On August 21, 1986, possibly triggered by a landslide, Lake Nyos suddenly emitted a large cloud of CO₂, which suffocated 1,700 people and 3,500 livestock in nearby villages.  Though not completely unprecedented, it was the first known large-scale asphyxiation caused by a natural event.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos

I find I learn more from listening than speaking (or posting), but I just wanted to say I've been following this thread series from the first and I appreciate all the effort put forth to keep them informative.

+1, I scuttled off to search and found out that it's methane suspended in water. Makes a solid ice like structure that burns.

I just sent a request to terminate my membership to management of this site.There's no pretense of any fairness in moderation or application of the CoC here, and I've got better things to do than have my news sources filtered by someone's else's agenda.

I'm also not about to let my name and honor be tainted through apparant affiliation for a site I do not and choose not to associate with. I want my name off here.

To the friends I have here, all the best to you and yours, to the powers that be, who look more like CNN and the Obama press corps everyday, go fuck yourselves.

Jeffers, I cannot tell you how very sorry I am; yours, as CT, is a great loss.

Gentlemen, Godspeed, and maximum success in all your endeavors,

FoF

....... whoa.. Good luck.

Wow...sucks.

I always enjoyed our dialogue, and I'm sad to see so many people leave.

I don't blame you.  I hope our paths cross some other place.





 

And yet you saw the need to post again?

And this bothers you, why?





 

Folks, we must go on...

Can Obama Shut Down the Internet?

All I was doing was writing what he told me.

Now, my take is they are cashing out before the capital gains taxes go up.

This right here is the trump card, IMHO.  I have daily conversations, privately through multiple internet media sources about where we are headed to in this country and what we need to do to fix it.  It is ironic that Al Gore's internet has been really the one thing which has allowed us to retain so much of what's left up until now.



The internet has become "The Committee's of Correspondence" of our time.  Without a free market internet, we will be hamstrung in our ability to both openly and privately discuss the issues on hand.



 

This may be a problem:

Link

Methane in Gulf Spill Poses New Concern
June 19, 2010
Associated Press

NEW ORLEANS - It is an overlooked danger in the oil spill crisis: The crude gushing from the well contains vast amounts of natural gas that could pose a serious threat to the Gulf of Mexico's fragile ecosystem.

The oil emanating from the seafloor contains about 40 percent methane, compared with about 5 percent found in typical oil deposits, said John Kessler, a Texas A&M University oceanographer who is studying the impact of methane from the spill.

That means huge quantities of methane have entered the Gulf, scientists say, potentially suffocating marine life and creating "dead zones" where oxygen is so depleted that nothing lives.

"This is the most vigorous methane eruption in modern human history," Kessler said.

Meanwhile, Anadarko Petroleum Corp., which owns a quarter of the stricken Deepwater Horizon oil well, late Friday blasted BP PLC's "reckless decisions and actions" that led to the well's explosion.

Anadarko Chairman and CEO Jim Hackett's statement came after some elected officials said Anadarko should help pay for the massive cleanup and spill-related claims.

"The mounting evidence clearly demonstrates that this tragedy was preventable and the direct result of BP's reckless decisions and actions," said Hackett in the statement. "We recognize that ultimately we have obligations under federal law related to the oil spill, but will look to BP to continue to pay all legitimate claims as they have repeatedly stated that they will do."

The information disclosed this week "indicates BP operated unsafely and failed to monitor and react to several critical warning signs during the drilling" the statement continued. "BP's behavior and actions likely represent gross negligence or willful misconduct."

Methane is a colorless, odorless and flammable substance that is a major component in the natural gas used to heat people's homes. Petroleum engineers typically burn off excess gas attached to crude before the oil is shipped off to the refinery. That's exactly what BP has done as it has captured more than 7.5 million gallons (28.4 million liters) of crude from the breached well.

At least 4.5 billion cubic feet (0.13 billion cubic meters) of natural gas - and possibly almost twice that amount - have leaked since April 20. That's based on estimates from the U.S. Geological Survey's "flow team" that 2,900 cubic feet (82.13 cubic meters) of natural gas are escaping for every barrel of oil.

"This is the most vigorous methane eruption in modern human history," said John Kessler, a Texas A&M University oceanographer.

Scientists, including those working with the flow team, estimate that methane makes up between 40 percent and 70 percent of what is spilling into the Gulf.

A BP spokesman said the company was burning about 30 million cubic feet (850,000 cubic meters) of natural gas daily from the source of the leak, adding up to about 450 million cubic feet (12.74 million cubic meters) since the containment effort started 15 days ago. That's enough gas to heat about 450,000 homes for four days.

But that figure does not account for gas that eluded containment efforts and wound up in the water, leaving behind huge amounts of methane. Scientists are still trying to measure how much has escaped into the water and how it may damage the Gulf and it creatures.

The dangerous gas has played an important role throughout the disaster and response. A bubble of methane is believed to have burst up from the seafloor and ignited the rig explosion. Methane crystals also clogged a four-story containment box that engineers earlier tried to place on top of the breached well.

Now it is being looked at as an environmental concern.

The small microbes that live in the sea have been feeding on the oil and natural gas in the water and are consuming larger quantities of oxygen, which they need to digest food. As they draw more oxygen from the water, it creates two problems. When oxygen levels drop low enough, the breakdown of oil grinds to a halt; and as it is depleted in the water, most life can't be sustained.

The National Science Foundation funded research on methane in the Gulf amid concerns about the depths of the oil plume and questions what role natural gas was playing in keeping the oil below the surface, said David Garrison, a program director in the federal agency who specializes in biological oceanography.

"This has the potential to harm the ecosystem in ways that we don't know," Garrison said. "It's a complex problem."

BP CEO Tony Hayward told Congress members that he was "so devastated with this accident," "deeply sorry" and "so distraught."

But he also testified that he was out of the loop on decisions at the well and disclaimed knowledge of any of the myriad problems on and under the Deepwater Horizon rig before the deadly explosion. BP was leasing the rig the Deepwater Horizon that exploded April 20, killing 11 workers and triggering the environmental disaster.

"BP blew it," said Rep. Bart Stupak, the Democratic chairman of the House investigations panel that held the hearing. "You cut corners to save money and time."

In early June, a research team led by Samantha Joye of the Institute of Undersea Research and Technology at the University of Georgia investigated a 15-mile(24-kilometer)-long plume drifting southwest from the leak site. They said they found methane concentrations up to 10,000 times higher than normal, and oxygen levels depleted by 40 percent or more.

The scientists found that some parts of the plume had oxygen concentrations just shy of the level that tips ocean waters into the category of "dead zone" - a region uninhabitable to fish, crabs, shrimp and other marine creatures.

Representatives of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration acknowledged that so much methane in the water could draw down oxygen levels and slow the breakdown of oil in the Gulf, but cautioned that research was still under way to understand the ramifications.

Meanwhile, the Coast Guard signaled a shift in strategy Friday to fight the oil, saying it was ramping up efforts to capture the crude closer to shore.

Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen said an estimated 2,000 private boats in the so-called "vessels of opportunity" program will be more closely linked through a tighter command and control structure to direct them to locations less than 50 miles (80 kilometers) offshore to skim the oil. Allen, the point man for the federal response to the spill, previously had said surface containment efforts would be concentrated much farther offshore.

BP has paid less than 12 percent of claims submitted by people and businesses harmed by the massive Gulf of Mexico oil spill, the federal government said Friday, while the new chief of the independent payment office promised to speed the process up. BP, however, said the number was higher.

News of the slow pace of the claims process came hours after the Coast Guard said it was ramping up efforts to capture the crude closer to shore with the help of private boats. As of Friday morning, between 65 million and 121.6 million gallons (246 million and 460 million liters) of oil have gushed into the Gulf of Mexico, based on federal daily flow rate estimates.

The House Judiciary Committee said in a statement that data it collected showed only $71 million out of an estimated $600 million had been paid as of Tuesday. In addition, the panel said that BP didn't make any payments in the first two weeks following the April 20 explosion and oil spill, and that it hasn't made a single payment for bodily injury or diminished home property value.

Democratic Rep. John Conyers said he's concerned that BP "is stiffing too many victims and shortchanging others."

BP spokesman Scott Dean said in an e-mail that the company had paid out $95 million as of Friday, and it had written about 30,000 checks to settle about half of the 63,000 claims it has received.

Dean said it was streamlining its process for dealing with large commercial claims.

The chief of the new independent office to pay claims said a plan to handle the remaining damage claims will be in place in 30 to 45 days. Kenneth Feinberg, who's overseeing the Independent Claims Facility, said he also hopes to have a program going forward that would provide payment within 30 to 60 days of someone submitting a new claim.

"The challenge here is going to be to evaluate quickly, eligible claims, legitimate claims and get them paid," said Feinberg, who was chosen by President Barack Obama and BP for the role.
© Copyright 2010 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

And in case anyone has missed it. check out this thread where it looks like the US will no longer be the world's leading manufacturer.

I wonder if this will start to show some non-believers how bad it's going to get?

If he doesn't want his name associated with this site, you'd think he'd quit posting. Yet he had to take another shot at us.

Ah, you must be on the stern of the Titanic. Nice and dry back there, for now.  

Groucho

He would be a valuable part of the discussion if he wasn't such a pr*ck about how he went about it.

I can handle all kinds of criticism of my mindset and way of thinking. But if you do it with the attitude and condescension he brings to the table, I will bounce it handily.

In short, if you can't get your point across without resorting to churlishness, you have no real point. You're only doing it to grandstand or to make yourself feel better by denigrating others.

Even Dems are starting to get it.

We are about to hit a brick wall.  None of their precious social programs will matter once they destroy the dollar.  The real shame is that had they put someone other than 0, who didn't immediately start paying off his supports with stimulous funds, maybe we would have more money to help out state unemployment benefits.

And we "little people" need to be on guard.  When unemployment ends and other welfare programs get cut, we will no longer be able to bribe the welfare demos to behave.  A lot of people are sitting on time bombs in urban areas––they just don't know it yet.


On that other topic:  Let's just stop talking about it.  They don't really deserve the time or consideration, IMHO.  We could fill 99 more pages about what happened and how it was handled and still not feel good about it.

Naw, he's just back in the stock market.

Damn thing is up 86.91 already.

Next stop, 11,000!

Whoa.....Go away for a weekend and look what happens!

'Scuse me while I step out of joke mode.......

First and foremost, gang...... This is a wide open forum. It's just like the myth/reality of the wild west. This isn't my forum, it's not yours. Just because you have a membership or just post doesn't give you ownership. Get used to it.

Next, the "Ignore" button is your friend. The "Quote" button should be used with great caution. Just to drive this point hard, Ignore the people you think are asshats and for crying out loud, DON'T QUOTE THEM!! It's like giving the P.A. system to a moron.

While many of us who have been on these threads from day one truly believe that things are or will get much worst, others may not. As long as they express their doubts in a civil way, if you choose to respond, be civil. That's not hard. Doubters are just that.....they doubt. If folks have a question and ask in a civil way, answer it if you so choose. None of us are JW Rawles and are, therefore, not recognized experts in this kind of thing. We're all just talking over the electronic back fence.


So, sit back, relax, have some popcorn and let's watch the show. Join in if you want. Just don't stick a paper clip in the electrical socket.
Jeffers and CT, c'mon back. It really is OK. We all get torqued out from time to time. It happens.

Groucho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJfeEuCG3mY

Cliffs of video:

4 people murdered in last 8 days

Mayor declares state of emergency

Curfew from 9pm to 6am for 5 days, trying to get 30 day extension

Cops can stop you in these hours for any reason

"territorial groups" - why not call them what they are mayor? GANGS

No gatherings of 3 or more people without a permit... wtf

This.  I've never been a moderator but I'm guessing that there are things at play here that we can't see.  Whoever runs this site is surely being advised by lawyers.  Given the political climate in this country and the concerns about .gov's intended role in the internet AND what we can only imagine going on out of sight, I will cut the mods slack on giving out timeouts.  This is not exactly an innocuous site for the Left.

Make liberal use of the ignore feature and continue your posting CT and jeffers.  Don't let the bastards get you down––WE want and need you here.

TC

+ 109.28

Too bad last thread getting locked. Sucks that lost a few large contributors. I come to these threads to get my doom and gloom fix, lately it has been too much bickering.  Even for GD it is getting old.

Meh, it was locked on the 99th page... Was just a matter of posts anyway.

We need to examine what happened, understand why it happened (as best we can), modify our behavior to prevent it happening again, and press on.

I've been keeping track of gas and diesel (when I had it) for about 4 years.

Same gas station, same gas.

24 May 2010 - $2.659

6 Jun 2010 - $2.599

20 Jun 2010 - $2.509

Seems like in the past, any time a tanker had the least bit of trouble, was delayed, etc. gas prices increased.

So I figured the same would be true considering this leak...guess I figured wrong.

When the Balkanization chickens come home to roost ...

WOO-HOO!!! The recovery's back on and stronger than ever. DJIA is up over a hundred even as I type. See? See? I told you all last week that things were on the way to going swimmingly well. It is party time!

Now, get a credit card or three and max them. Back to consume, consume, consume. You don't have to produce a darned thing. Just buy-buy-buy!! That's all it takes. That crazy guy, Adam Smith, wrote that outdated book back in 1776. Every thing is changed now. The wealth of a nation resides in ones and zeros stored in a computer.

No, you may not pull the plug!

Groucho

You are either a producer or a consumer parasite.

Who is John Galt?

I wonder if Obama will say anything about this. If he doesn't he's alright with it. Not that it would surprise me.

Bah...he'll just use it to try and force the Republicans to do something else - ala his conversation with Arizona Republican Senator Jon Kyl.

That seriously pissed me off.

NM.

+59.86

Will the rally hold?  

Inquiring minds want to know!

Don't you worry, Alphaj, it will not just hold up, it will take off like a rocket! Get in there and get some of that E-Z money. Even CNBC is all about this mammoth rally. They're not cheerleaders for the PTB.

Really, trust old Groucho. Ditch the gold and get into a man's game....Yeah.  Go ahead. They really care about you and me over on the Street.

Groucho


eta - anybody thinking this is financial advice is a truly odd duck.

Double dip fears that Fed may be outta bullets


"They do have some ammunition left, but it's not going to pack a lot of punch," said Mark Zandi, chief economist with Moody's Economy.com.

Most economists aren't yet predicting that a double dip recession is imminent. But financial problems in Europe led to a sell-off in U.S. stocks in the past six weeks. Weaker-than-expected readings on job growth and retail sales have added to concerns that the recovery is stalling out.

"Whenever the next recession comes, it is very important that policymakers have had the opportunity to reload their gun to fight the downturn," said Lakshman Achuthan, managing director of Economic Cycle Research Institute. "Today it's not clear that there's a lot more policymakers can do."

The typical first step to spur a faltering economy is for the Fed to cut the cost of borrowing money in order to encourage spending.

But the federal funds rate, its key interest rate used as a benchmark for a wide range of consumer and business borrowing, is already near 0%. Fed policymakers are widely expected to leave rates near zero at the conclusion of their two-day meeting on Wednesday.

Longer-term rates set by the market, such as Treasury yields and mortgage rates, are also nearing historic lows. So the Fed can't make money much cheaper.

Achuthan said he is worried that neither the Fed nor Congress have the resources and political will necessary to stimulate the economy if that's needed.

House democrats agree to consumer watchdog at Fed


une 21 (Reuters) - Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives have agreed to a Senate proposal to house a new consumer financial watchdog agency in the Federal Reserve, a counterproposal issued on Monday said.

House Democrats negotiating final changes to a sweeping bill to reform U.S. financial regulations will also seek to insert a provision to subject pay-day lenders, check cashers and private student loan providers to supervision by the proposed new agency, the counterproposal released by Representative Barney Frank said.

House and Senate negotiators are set to resume talks over the wide ranging reforms on Tuesday.


Fed has little room to move if growth slows

Economists are concerned because the U.S. economy seems stuck in low gear, making it susceptible to shocks. The latest data for May has not been encouraging.

"I'm not a worry wart –– we've got a pretty good recovery –– but the things that are the most worrisome are the potential downside risks," said former Fed governor Lyle Gramley, now a senior economic adviser at Potomac Research Group.

"May was not a good month," said Gramley.

There was only a paltry increase in private sector jobs in the month and retail sales were anemic.

UK set for $40 billion of tax hikes, spending cuts

In an emergency budget that comes just six weeks after the Conservative and Liberal Democrat alliance took office, Osborne will announce further fiscal tightening equivalent to around 2% to 3% of gross domestic product, economists said.

The majority of that will come in the form of spending cuts, which will also drive another cut in the outlook for growth next year.

Economists at J.P. Morgan said they expect 28 billion pounds ($42 billion) of new fiscal tightening measures, with at least half of that total in place by the end of fiscal 2012. The newly-created Office for Budget Responsibility will also likely cut its 2011 growth forecast to 2.3% from 2.6%, the broker added.

This weeks Financial Calendar

Market off 19 as of the writing of this......

Talk about a frothy market!

Groucho

hmmm

So much so that I just heard how two major brokerages have decided to let us "small people"  ante up and open up an account with only 5k instead of 25k.

How'd that for generosity?  Thinking of the little guy and gal.  

"Letting" us come play with the high rollers.

Come on in and frolic!

+1

The site "dedicated to the black rifle" seems to sell out to the establishment more and more each day.   Less on discussion, more on vendors.  Less on unbiased free speech, more on staying safe for the kiddies.   Blood and gore?  You bet!  Just watch out when posting those plunging V-necks or you'll get the ban-hammer!  I get the point of not associating with militant milita types and furthering threat-makers (I get that part, it's dangerous legal territory); but it seems as though political correctness is the main theme anymore.   I figure it kind of goes against the whole point of the civvies and mil who caiter to this place?

Meh.  Oh well, private site - they can suck-start it into MSNBC if they want to.  Something else will pop up instead.  

See ya, Jeffers.

It's a very good read.